Okay.. let's think for a minute.. WHY does it take PD so long to create a GT game?

[BrainGow=Bairn]

See.. im reading this interview again with Yamauchi (bless him) and the line where he says that GT5 could be out in 2010.
We all hope that wont happen, and we all hope it will be out in 2009 right? But we all know deep in our heart that it wont be out soon, and looking at the pace of how fast things are getting updated at the moment, i think we'll see the next "fall" update with damage in 2009, and GT5 in 2010 if not 2011.

Now before i go back into whine mode again , i would like to say that what i have seen so far is just amazing! car models, the tracks, the replays offcourse, the in car view, sounds are great, it's smooth, etc.
So kudos to PD for that!

Now the big question.. WHY do they take forever to make on GT game?
Is it the development kit for the PS3? is it because they are too strict and too anal about their games? small team?

See, i look around and see race games popping up within a year's development cycle.

Example: GRID... i know, not full sim and stuff like that, but it does have great graphics, a great damage model, and a day and night cycle (le mans races) plus great online racing.
and they developed that game close to a year of developing.
Why is it then that it takes PD sooo long to get online right? to get damage patched in a year after they released GT5P? there is no day and night cycle yet, and we can only dream of dynamic weather effects!
I can see the game coming out in 2010 without a day and night cycle and without weather effects... just like how GT4 came without online racing.

Prologue is great! but let's face it, after the challenges it's bone dry...
No weather, no night racing, no endurance, no damage, no fuel loss, no tyre wear, online is not so good yet, no pitstops, etc.

Again.. dont get me wrong, i am more then thankfull that PD creates games like GT, but i wonder why it takes them roughly taken about 4 years of development time for one game?

 

[blademask]

I think you are forgetting about the car lists in GT. So all of the work/mods you do for 1 car, multiply that times 700+. Same with track detail.

Grid looks good, but it's visuals are not even in the same universe as GT5. I think its because of the sheer detail in the game, that causes the delays. If they removed the cars, and some tracks. We would get the game faster, but the quality would suck.

As long as GT5 comes out one day, I'll be happy. I'd rather them not rush it out to get out a mediocre release like PGR or GRID, and spend the time to give us yet another amazing addition to their series.

The online is unacceptable, and it makes no sense that it was even enabled imo.

The prologue is what all the previous ones were. Just a taste of the game, so you cant expect all of the full functioning features to be in the game. Prologue, for 30 dollars is one of the best deals out there for car enthusiasts into games.

 

[Chronos]

Listen and read these may help understand.

Takau Imasaki Interview
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/31074.html

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=130180

They're watching how we play all the time, collecting their own data, ignoring other games and they have their own direction. Development took longer than planned.

We should tell them what we want/expect of course (they need to know what western gamers expect for online features), but they know how to sell games to this point, and listening to everyone would be bad for business. I want as real as possible physics and real pace, correct tyre selection and simulation for each car, every track bump modeled and car component modeled and similar things to that (probably wouldn't sell very much, people want fun, ala the update experiment imo), others want skid marks and reverse lights, some people want 3D modeled moving trees using the latest tree tech and birds flying in the background, ingame music and paint your own car, dust particles.

If you don't like it then you can buy other games and PD might learn the hard way, who knows.

 

[Kryz11]

Sure it has pretty graphics, sure it has best looking car models, sure it has best looking tracks/circuits, so sure it takes long time to develop. But I care less how long it takes them to make it. Since GT offers best sensation of driving a real road car and maybe even most realistic sim out there. SO THEY can take their time to perfect it.

Besides, there are many other great games that took over 5 years to develop, one example OBLIVION! So keep your cool, and patience is the key.

 

[Patrik]

I think you are forgetting about the car lists in GT. So all of the work/mods you do for 1 car, multiply that times 700+. Same with track detail.

Grid looks good, but it's visuals are not even in the same universe as GT5. I think its because of the sheer detail in the game, that causes the delays. If they removed the cars, and some tracks. We would get the game faster, but the quality would suck.

As long as GT5 comes out one day, I'll be happy. I'd rather them not rush it out to get out a mediocre release like PGR or GRID, and spend the time to give us yet another amazing addition to their series.

I completely agree, the standard in the closest competitor is not even close GT5P in the level of detail and perfection..

The online is unacceptable, and it makes no sense that it was even enabled imo.

If you mean the online in GT5P I think it's good if the ones you're racing against does it properly. Add some realistic damage and it'll be great I think! (or you'll be pissed because some n00b has crashed your car but I still want it to be in there!

 

[Zetec-ss]

how big is the forza team compared with PD? because forza smash PD to pieces with regards to time scaling.

 

[zodicus]

From what i remeber ( i could be wrong) almost every delay has been from something not being to there liking and it needed tweaked or redone entierly. But in this new great universe of updateability ( is that a word?) that sony and all the other home console makers have created by including HDD in there systems this shouldnt be a problem. Get the core of the game right, the physics online good offline privet rooms a good selection of cars and tracks, however long that takes. Then anything thats holding them up can be released in a patch later, i wouldn't have a problem with that. Mabye provide a list of things to be added post release with the game, so we know that its comming. whats wrong with that? IDK if they'll go that route or not though.

 

[Chronos]

It'll be interesting how people take to RACE Pro exclusive to XBox 360 which is made by SimBin released in a few months, it could offer a lot of what people want and ditch prologue. http://www.atari.com.au/games/newsDetails.do?id=1310&newsId=1663

MS could easy take on Gran Turismo if they backed someone heavily and got logitech onboard instead of poaching tri-ace rpg's and the like.

 

[zodicus]

ooo thats not good simbin knows there stuff....

 

[Patrik]

It'll be interesting how people take to RACE Pro exclusive to XBox 360 which is made by SimBin released in a few months, it could offer a lot of what people want and ditch prologue. http://www.atari.com.au/games/newsDetails.do?id=1310&newsId=1663

MS could easy take on Gran Turismo if they backed someone heavily and got logitech onboard instead of poaching tri-ace rpg's and the like.

lol, that still looks like horrible graphics compared even to GTHD..

EDIT:

hahahahahaha, what a sucky game.. baaad graphics and listen what he says, 15 tracks and 46 car models???? the psysics doesn't seem near simulation either! 👍

 

[TeamStig]

This is PD we are talking about. These guys have incredible talent, and I'm sure could do a better job than anyone else. But other developers can still make an amazing game in about two, three years at the most. It shouldn't be taking this long.

HOWEVER, if PD keeps releasing GT5P updates on a regular basis, everything will be ok (not GT TV, but new cars, tracks, and events). The problem there is that they haven't been making these updates on a regular basis.

And then there's Kaz. He has done more than a good job, making GT one of the best - if not the best - driving sims on the market. His series has grossed millions of dollars and is essentially Sony's killer app. Still, he has to understand that giving your "perfect vision" to the world doesn't mean anything if people can't play it.

 

[Patrik]

This is PD we are talking about. These guys have incredible talent, and I'm sure could do a better job than anyone else. But other developers can still make an amazing game in about two, three years at the most. It shouldn't be taking this long.

Oh come on.. You think they're drinking coffee and eating donuts all the time? They're probably working hard as many have said.

A car in GT5P has (what I've seen so far) every little piece of detail both interior as exterior that you will find on the IRL car! Also the tracks are the best looking in a racing game! It will come when it does and it will blow everything away..

 

[Kryz11]

lol, that still looks like horrible graphics compared even to GTHD..

EDIT:

hahahahahaha, what a sucky game.. baaad graphics and listen what he says, 15 tracks and 46 car models???? the psysics doesn't seem near simulation either! 👍

That game does not look REAL, looks really UGLY compared even TO PC version, and once again Does not look like PHYSICS are any good.. its another arcade/sim

8 cars on a track? WOW! SO old school.

 

[Patrik]

8 cars on a track? WOW! SO old school.

Yup, seems like we are back in the good old days when Gran Turismo was the best without any close competitors

 

[McLaren]

how big is the forza team compared with PD? because forza smash PD to pieces with regards to time scaling.

They had a good size team, around PD's (PD's, I believe is a bit small for a gaming company; less than 100 workers?). Now, they have part of the Bizarre Creations team & are hiring more workers.

However, time frame means nothing. Turn10 can put out 5 games to PD's 1. Doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be as good. Turn10's Forza series is great, but it lacks a ful-filling career mode, the detail of the cars & tracks, or the lighting system, which is were GT's super-realistic look comes from. The lighting program of the GT games is world class, and it takes some time to create it with the cars to get it just right. Turn10 don't spend anywhere near the amount of time on their lighting or graphics which gives their cars a cartoon-ish look, & over-used-bloom graphics.

 

[Earth]

That game does not look REAL, looks really UGLY compared even TO PC version, and once again Does not look like PHYSICS are any good.. its another arcade/sim

8 cars on a track? WOW! SO old school.

Throw 8 cars, 720p, and somewhat complex physics at the 360 and it's probably gasping for air

The name "Race Pro" should have raised red flags from the get go

It takes PD so long to create a GT game because nobody in the business puts as much focus on the details as them. They get nearly everything right and perfect as they can get it.

Sure, Turn 10 can probably release 2 360 Forza games before GT5 comes out, but watch GT5 not only have far better graphics, physics and flat out better gameplay, but also more tracks and vehicles then both Forzas combined.

So what do you want

PD to take their time and make the game AAAA quality,

or PD to rush GT games to the market every 12 months like EA's now nortoriously garbage Need For Speed series?

 

[RedSuinit]

Throw 8 cars, 720p, and somewhat complex physics at the 360 and it's probably gasping for air

The name "Race Pro" should have raised red flags from the get go

It takes PD so long to create a GT game because nobody in the business puts as much focus on the details as them. They get nearly everything right and perfect as they can get it.

Sure, Turn 10 can probably release 2 360 Forza games before GT5 comes out, but watch GT5 not only have far better graphics, physics and flat out better gameplay, but also more tracks and vehicles then both Forzas combined.

So what do you want

PD to take their time and make the game AAAA quality,

or PD to rush GT games to the market every 12 months like EA's now nortoriously garbage Need For Speed series?

AMEN, but not quite right about the 360 bit, you should have seen halo 3 in 1080 it was AMAZING. And Gears of War, need I say more. Anyways spot on about everything else.

Luke

 

[DKX]

It takes PD so long to create a GT game because GT is and always will be the best racing game series out there.

Yes I play other racing game series and none of them feel as good as GT is.

 

[NLxAROSA]

The online is unacceptable, and it makes no sense that it was even enabled imo.

If it weren't I think it would be very empty here.

hahahahahaha, what a sucky game.. baaad graphics and listen what he says, 15 tracks and 46 car models???? the psysics doesn't seem near simulation either! 👍

It's made by SimBin, creators of GTR2 and Race07, two simulations that contain realism that GT5P (so far) can only dream of.

Does not look like PHYSICS are any good.. its another arcade/sim

See above, It's made by SimBin, which should say enough. Definitely no arcade racer, and I think it sucks it's not coming for PS3, because it will most certainly give GT5P a run for its money where realism is concerned.

The name "Race Pro" should have raised red flags from the get go

No, the name 'SimBin' should have. Creators of two of the greatest simulation games for any platform. True, they care less about sexy graphics, but they sure do make sure their games are realistic. 👍

And IMO you can't judge anything about the way the thing handles from a crappy youtube video.

 

[TeamStig]

Oh come on.. You think they're drinking coffee and eating donuts all the time? They're probably working hard as many have said.

Never said they weren't working hard. If anything, they are probably one of the hardest working teams out there. But they need to put things into perspective. For any other game, a development period this long would be unrealistic. But then again, GT isn't just "any other game."

When the game releases in 2010, I fully expect it to be better than every other game out there in every single way. And I have a feeling that PD won't dissapoint

 

[NLxAROSA]

When the game releases in 2010, I fully expect it to be better than every other game out there in every single way.

Well, what they've showed us so far is very good, with every update bringing improvement. I hope they keep up the good work, GT5P is awesome the way it is already. Sure it's got some drawbacks like crappy online and a weird penalty system, but I'm sure these issues will be addressed in the future. (Whether that will be the near future we can only hope )

 

[TeamStig]

Well, what they've showed us so far is very good, with every update bringing improvement. I hope they keep up the good work, GT5P is awesome the way it is already. Sure it's got some drawbacks like crappy online and a weird penalty system, but I'm sure these issues will be addressed in the future. (Whether that will be the near future we can only hope )

What they have done so far is nothing short of spectacular, and the best part is that things can only get better!

 

[JohnBM01]

Why does it takes so long for a GT to be made? Contrary to the IGNores and other haters' views on GT, there's a lot of attention to detail that takes so long to develop. The team puts tireless efforts into designing each course into something amazing. Because Gran Turismo is such an upper-tier series, anything less than upper-tier isn't acceptable.

Critics are likely going to tell me that Gran Turismo isn't upper-tier in anything except putting in 100 Skylines and "boring people to death" with uninteresting cars. But if you please stop focusing only on Burnout fans, there are really people that care about a great racing game where you can race all kinds of cars in all kinds of competitions. To me, this all comes down to attention-to-detail and making sure the package is as appealing and as playable as any other GT title. I've been on GTPlanet for 4.5 years. I recalled all the people who were waiting so long for GT4. People lack the patience. PD (debate at will) doesn't make half-assed titles. Only those with expectations as high as Mount Everest are the ones who end up hating GT games for not being everything they hope for.

So to me, it's about as much content as possible to please gamers until the next GT. It takes time to make upper-tier games stand out and shine. This is something most cheap shot-making punks in gaming media always want to make cheap shots and low blows directed on the Gran Turismo series. I haven't heard a single Forza or Burnout cheapshot almost ever. Always have to be on Gran Turismo. After all, all the time lost in making a GT is worth it. At least, from my playing. I don't like half-assed games, and I'm sure the rest of you don't either. Adding extra detail to cars and working out features like damage and time and weather all take time, especially to get it right. Because who wants a game of failed execution? Oh wait, there was one- GT2.

I feel GT3 was a hard lesson PD had to learn. They had to make a great successor of GT2 for a brand-new console. While it was good while it lasted, there wasn't enough to really make this better than GT3 except for better graphics and more interesting races. GT2 was still my personal worst GT of all time for lacked execution. I still found myself playing GT1 as GT2 and GT3 were out. GT4 was only a disappointment for those who only cared for online play than any other aspect of the game (according to old-fashioned me). I even enjoyed playing GT4 as I found myself only playing GT1 either if I got sick of GT4 or wanted to relive a classic.

GT games have taken longer to create because everyone's really trying to work to add new content as well as add to the longevity factor of GT5. With the arrival of online play and Ferrari, GT5's not going to get old anytime soon. I give games a chance unlike most people. And for this, I'm rarely disappointed. Last time I was truly disappointed about a game was either when I played "25 to Life" or "NASCAR 08." Delays to add more material doesn't bother me much at all. I have nothing to do with my life outside of gaming, so I can wait longer. It's these aspects and more as to why I think these games take so long. Don't look at this as "give us the damned game now!" Rather more like, "make this game as best as possible without having me feel cheated out of my money."

 

[GT]

GT games are not meant to be games in the purest sense of that definition. They are showing you the beauty and elegance of the automobile and the joy of driving them.

Have you guys noticed the insane detail on every car model in GT5P? have you seen how they have every curve just right, and every headlight precisely the way it is in real life? Not to mention the interior of the cars, pure perfection. The real question is why...? Why go through so much pain? We've seen games like Forza and Simbim xboxracer...they're out in a fraction of the time it takes PD to create a game, and mostly they're ok right (Don't know about Pro Racer though) Even PGR is really fun and addictive. But the question was why...

First and foremost, being a lover of cars means that they intice you, you want to look at them, hear their engine, see the interior and appreciate the stitching and gauges, to love the color and adore the wheels. This may seem a little dreamy but this is what it means to me and I'm sure PD and his team are also lyrical about cars. Furthermore, it is a way of life (for me at least), it's an integral part of it. I love to drive along long winding roads through the dunes at 80 kmh, turning left and right, feeling the car, hearing the engine. That is why I love driving my Mazda Lantis. It is the same feeling of appreciating that I have when playing PD's GT series. They know the joy that a car can bring, they understand the effort that goes into racing a car, they see the beauty it represents, and they recreate it as delicatly as possible; yet they cannot tell you to see that.

A lot of the time I just look at the cars, and not just the cars. the backgrounds and the my page section...jaw dropping, incredible. I can truly appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into it. Germany is indeed a beautiful country having been there myself quite a few times. Or the great GT-TV videos, Love the ferrari excursion and the lap on the nurburgring with the GT-R. Just pick your favorite car and look at it, see how incredible it looks; to grasp the essence of what it is to love cars and fully understand why.

That is why the cars look incredible, that is why the interior is unbelievably real, that is why they are taking foreover to make this "game". Yet I hope a lot of you realize it is so much more than a mere game, PD knows this, you should too...

 

[Timppaq]

GT games are not meant to be games in the purest sense of that definition. They are showing you the beauty and elegance of the automobile and the joy of driving them.

Have you guys noticed the insane detail on every car model in GT5P? have you seen how they have every curve just right, and every headlight precisely the way it is in real life? Not to mention the interior of the cars, pure perfection. The real question is why...? Why go through so much pain? We've seen games like Forza and Simbim xboxracer...they're out in a fraction of the time it takes PD to create a game, and mostly they're ok right (Don't know about Pro Racer though) Even PGR is really fun and addictive. But the question was why...

First and foremost, being a lover of cars means that they intice you, you want to look at them, hear their engine, see the interior and appreciate the stitching and gauges, to love the color and adore the wheels. This may seem a little dreamy but this is what it means to me and I'm sure PD and his team are also lyrical about cars. Furthermore, it is a way of life (for me at least), it's an integral part of it. I love to drive along long winding roads through the dunes at 80 kmh, turning left and right, feeeling the car, hearing the engine. That is why I love driving my Mazda Lantis. It is the same feeling of appreciating that I have when playing PD's GT series. They know the joy that a car can bring, they understand the effort that goes into racing a car, they see the beauty it represents, and they recreate it as delicatly as possible; yet they cannot tell you to see that.

A lot of the time I just look at the cars, and not just the cars. the backgrounds and the mY page section...jaw dropping, incredible. I can truly appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into it. Germany is indeed a beautiful country having been there myself quite a few times. Or the geart GT-TV videos, Love the ferrari excursion and the lap on the nurburgring with the GT-R. Just pick your favorite car and look at it, see how incredible it looks, to grasp the essence of what it is to love cars and fully understand why.

That is why the cars look incredible, that is why the interior is unbelievably real, that is why they are taking foreover to make this "game". Yet I hope a lot of you realize it is so much more than a mere game, PD knows this, you should too...

+1 👍

 

[Mr P510]

You know,I always find it fun to read these kinds of threads.
It makes me wish I could "time travel" 1 year into the future and see where PD is at then.

 

[magburner]

GT games are not meant to be games in the purest sense of that definition. They are showing you the beauty and elegance of the automobile and the joy of driving them.

Have you guys noticed the insane detail on every car model in GT5P? have you seen how they have every curve just right, and every headlight precisely the way it is in real life? Not to mention the interior of the cars, pure perfection. The real question is why...? Why go through so much pain? We've seen games like Forza and Simbim xboxracer...they're out in a fraction of the time it takes PD to create a game, and mostly they're ok right (Don't know about Pro Racer though) Even PGR is really fun and addictive. But the question was why...

First and foremost, being a lover of cars means that they intice you, you want to look at them, hear their engine, see the interior and appreciate the stitching and gauges, to love the color and adore the wheels. This may seem a little dreamy but this is what it means to me and I'm sure PD and his team are also lyrical about cars. Furthermore, it is a way of life (for me at least), it's an integral part of it. I love to drive along long winding roads through the dunes at 80 kmh, turning left and right, feeling the car, hearing the engine. That is why I love driving my Mazda Lantis. It is the same feeling of appreciating that I have when playing PD's GT series. They know the joy that a car can bring, they understand the effort that goes into racing a car, they see the beauty it represents, and they recreate it as delicatly as possible; yet they cannot tell you to see that.

A lot of the time I just look at the cars, and not just the cars. the backgrounds and the my page section...jaw dropping, incredible. I can truly appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into it. Germany is indeed a beautiful country having been there myself quite a few times. Or the great GT-TV videos, Love the ferrari excursion and the lap on the nurburgring with the GT-R. Just pick your favorite car and look at it, see how incredible it looks; to grasp the essence of what it is to love cars and fully understand why.

That is why the cars look incredible, that is why the interior is unbelievably real, that is why they are taking foreover to make this "game". Yet I hope a lot of you realize it is so much more than a mere game, PD knows this, you should too...

...And also why the online mode is a pile of crap!

I agree with what your saying about the visuals, they are lush, but I didn't buy GT5 just to drool over awe inspiring graphics. I honestly thought the game itself would of been much better than it is.

Do any of you remember the video of the oval they released - I don't know what track it was though, because it didn't look like Daytona Speedway? In that video, I counted at least 20 cars on the track, and the pits, well oh my! The level of detail was astounding, what ever happened to that vision?

I'm willing to wait until 2010 if that's when GT5 finally appears, because I'm believing (and hoping) that GT5 is going to be as revolutionary as the original Gran Turismo. They got the graphics right, now get the game right!

 

[ExigeEvan]

They're a rogue development team.

They make money, but not in the regular orchestrated way that company exec's would want them to. They appease them by doing the odd manufacturer demo (which is often just a matter of moddeling a car and suiting the handling to the manufacturer's spec).

Personally, I don't think PD are "gods", exceptionally skilled or indeed that the entire team talks about nothing but cars all day. But, they're boss does, and by giving them so much time they'd have to be quite sub standard to put out a game that didn't look good and play well.

 

[888 Tuning]

GT games are not meant to be games in the purest sense of that definition. They are showing you the beauty and elegance of the automobile and the joy of driving them.

Have you guys noticed the insane detail on every car model in GT5P? have you seen how they have every curve just right, and every headlight precisely the way it is in real life? Not to mention the interior of the cars, pure perfection. The real question is why...? Why go through so much pain? We've seen games like Forza and Simbim xboxracer...they're out in a fraction of the time it takes PD to create a game, and mostly they're ok right (Don't know about Pro Racer though) Even PGR is really fun and addictive. But the question was why...

First and foremost, being a lover of cars means that they intice you, you want to look at them, hear their engine, see the interior and appreciate the stitching and gauges, to love the color and adore the wheels. This may seem a little dreamy but this is what it means to me and I'm sure PD and his team are also lyrical about cars. Furthermore, it is a way of life (for me at least), it's an integral part of it. I love to drive along long winding roads through the dunes at 80 kmh, turning left and right, feeling the car, hearing the engine. That is why I love driving my Mazda Lantis. It is the same feeling of appreciating that I have when playing PD's GT series. They know the joy that a car can bring, they understand the effort that goes into racing a car, they see the beauty it represents, and they recreate it as delicatly as possible; yet they cannot tell you to see that.

A lot of the time I just look at the cars, and not just the cars. the backgrounds and the my page section...jaw dropping, incredible. I can truly appreciate the amount of effort that has gone into it. Germany is indeed a beautiful country having been there myself quite a few times. Or the great GT-TV videos, Love the ferrari excursion and the lap on the nurburgring with the GT-R. Just pick your favorite car and look at it, see how incredible it looks; to grasp the essence of what it is to love cars and fully understand why.

That is why the cars look incredible, that is why the interior is unbelievably real, that is why they are taking foreover to make this "game". Yet I hope a lot of you realize it is so much more than a mere game, PD knows this, you should too...

+2

Sums it up better than I can....Those who are not truely passionate about performance and "the car" wont understand my ramble

For me this game is not about the racing (which I enjoy) but its about the experience... the whole experience of automobile art, which is what so many of the cars in this game are. They are all special in some way.

If you find yourself taking the Elise 111 out for a drive at Eiger, then just sit back and watch the replay.. or you find yourself pushing the F430 through Suzuka, just to smile at glory of that engine and the balance of that chassis, or even take the Jag out just to hear that sweet sounding V8 hammer you down the road, then you know what this game is about.

I look at some of the screen grabs from the other drive sims such as Pro Racer and something is just not right.. there is something missing. That "something" is the critical key that joins you with this game and immerses you like no other driving game I have played ever does. For me that is what PD spends so much time doing and is worth the wait.

If it wasnt as good as it is, it would just be another driving game.

 

[Jay]

+2

Sums it up better than I can....Those who are not truely passionate about performance and "the car" wont understand my ramble

For me this game is not about the racing (which I enjoy) but its about the experience... the whole experience of automobile art, which is what so many of the cars in this game are. They are all special in some way.

If you find yourself taking the Elise 111 out for a drive at Eiger, then just sit back and watch the replay.. or you find yourself pushing the F430 through Suzuka, just to smile at glory of that engine and the balance of that chassis, or even take the Jag out just to hear that sweet sounding V8 hammer you down the road, then you know what this game is about.

I look at some of the screen grabs from the other drive sims such as Pro Racer and something is just not right.. there is something missing. That "something" is the critical key that joins you with this game and immerses you like no other driving game I have played ever does. For me that is what PD spends so much time doing and is worth the wait.

If it wasnt as good as it is, it would just be another driving game.

Spot on! (Aswell as GT's post), seriously the racing (racing other opponents not just driving) is such a small part (but important) of Gran Turismo for me.