[ORA] FIA GT World Championship [S3] | TRL_Evo and Ramalhinho are your PRO and AM Champions!Finished 

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Brutaka
View attachment 319746
Penalty Report
​
All Incidents are Pro Incidents. No Am incidents to report as of now.

Warnings
crelou: track limits
FRS_SK8R: track limits
eol-: track limits
TNR_REBELLION: gaining position exceeding track limits
rcb929: gaining position exceeding track limits
FRS_SK8R: track limits
TNR_REBELLION: track limits
GTP_Jammy: track limits
GTP_Caine: track limits
TWR-SEB-72: track limits

Sprint
TNR_5zigen: 15 seconds penalty; Exceeding Track limits
TRL_EVOLUTION: 10 seconds penalty; Exceeding Track limits

Endurance
TNR_5zigen: 60 seconds penalty for exceeding track limits and cutting chicane:
FRS_SK8R: 15 seconds penalty for bumping crelou off in Schumacher S;
TRL_EVOLUTION: 45 seconds penalty for exceeding track limits and cutting chicane;
TNR_Pfeffer702: 10 seconds penalty for exceeding track limits;
TNR_FILO: 15 seconds penalty for exceeding track limits and cutting chicane;
TNR_FILO: 30 seconds penalty for causing the crash in T1 Lap 2 after formation lap, caused damage in 2 cars (eol- and Gabguss);
FRS_SK8R: 5 seconds penalty for exceeding track limits;

All penalties can be appealed. The appealing process may take a while but we do take the defendants case seriously. Remember, If it is a Pro incident reported, I myself don't have much information towards it,I only have the info given to me by the PRO stewards so if you wish to challenge a penalty, add the pro stewards and the Admins (Admins have to be apart of everything)
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I would like to Appeal on the use and consistency of the track limits rule:

2. Cutting and running with more than two tires over track boundaries. (Minor)
2A. 15 second Penalty to overall time. Drivers get two warnings. Upon the third time, they will receive a penalty. 2B. Let off the throttle to 50% or under for 3 seconds.
 
TNR_KING_FILO
I would like to Appeal on the use and consistency of the track limits rule:

2. Cutting and running with more than two tires over track boundaries. (Minor)
2A. 15 second Penalty to overall time. Drivers get two warnings. Upon the third time, they will receive a penalty. 2B. Let off the throttle to 50% or under for 3 seconds.
Click to expand...
Since this is a issue that goes throughout the entire series, I will address it on the public forum:

I, personally, believe that corner cutting should receive 15 seconds worth of penalties max, regardless of how many times they cut, however, my partners (The other stewards) believe that it should work with 2 warnings, then 15 second penalty for every next corner cut, I think that's a little excessive but its majority decision against me.

If you guys want it changed to something else, you can file a IPO rule appeal with "signatures" from anyone who opposes the rule, but don't file it just because you want a smaller penalty. Filo you did good in trying to appeal this even though you were not affected by it, you showed concern for your fellow drivers which is admirable 👍
 
Brutaka
Since this is a issue that goes throughout the entire series, I will address it on the public forum:

I, personally, believe that corner cutting should receive 15 seconds worth of penalties max, regardless of how many times they cut, however, my partners (The other stewards) believe that it should work with 2 warnings, then 15 second penalty for every next corner cut, I think that's a little excessive but its majority decision against me.

If you guys want it changed to something else, you can file a IPO rule appeal with "signatures" from anyone who opposes the rule, but don't file it just because you want a smaller penalty. Filo you did good in trying to appeal this even though you were not affected by it, you showed concern for your fellow drivers which is admirable 👍
Click to expand...

From the rule that is what i believed, it's not a rule appeal it's the consistency of how the rule has been applied, for instance it seems to be only a number of drivers consistently getting penalties where others are doing exactly the same thing as them. It is unfair when you are racing someone where you follow their exactly line and yet you get the penalty.

Throughout the race lap after lap was no more than a tyres width away from the curb, should this lead to a unlimited penalty?
if i was further i let off the gas for 1 / 1.5 seconds. I believe there were only 2 instances where i didn't.
 
Brutaka
Filo you did good in trying to appeal this even though you were not affected by it, you showed concern for your fellow drivers which is admirable 👍
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Actually he was penalized. Look near the bottom of the list. :)
 
TNR_KING_FILO
From the rule that is what i believed, it's not a rule appeal it's the consistency of how the rule has been applied, for instance it seems to be only a number of drivers consistently getting penalties where others are doing exactly the same thing as them. It is unfair when you are racing someone where you follow their exactly line and yet you get the penalty.
Click to expand...

Maybe because those are the ones that keep exceding track limits or going through chicanes like a mountain car, this is not the first time, FILO you actually lifted off the throttle a couple times, those were not counted, however in the Endurance you had a few chicane cutting + some track limits in T2 & T4 which is against the rules.

And please don't play that card with us, let's give an example, in RBR TRL_EVOLUTION had absolutely no penalties, why? Because he respected them, CodDemon was severely penalized there, why? Excessive use of track limits, rules are applied to everyone.

You can ask me why you don't see names like @gtpcaine, @jammy21 or @rcb929. Pretty simple, they respect the rules and as far as I've seen, they are gentlemen drivers.

TNR_KING_FILO
Throughout the race lap after lap was no more than a tyres width away from the curb, should this lead to a unlimited penalty?
if i was further i let off the gas for 1 / 1.5 seconds. I believe there were only 2 instances where i didn't.
Click to expand...

Like I told you, the times you lift off the gas were not counted as warnings, however we had to apply rules to everyone. What we also had in mind was the intention of each driver, for example, there was few examples that a X car had four tyres outside track limits (small to medium margins), however we could clearly see that X car was trying to not go off and almost loses control of the car preventing that from happening, common sense was used but if a thing gets repeted we won't let it pass.

TNR_KING_FILO
It is unfair when you are racing someone where you follow their exactly line and yet you get the penalty.
Click to expand...

Feel free to make a comparison between certain drivers in a private conversation with all stewards and admins, we have evidence of what happened.
 
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Here are 2 instances where @rcb929 extends the track and where another opponent does also, yet no warning or penalty given.

Nürburgring GP_F_4.jpg Nürburgring GP_F_6.jpg
 
rcb929
The first picture is pushing limits but the second I was trying to correct the car (as you can clearly see) and not cause a pile up with that NSX.
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that's a lot of defending then in the first 8 laps. the penalties need to be more thorough. like @Brutaka said 15 seconds or nothing.

i am still uncertain why there where 5 and 10 second penalties, the rules don't say anything about those.

Nürburgring GP_F.jpg Nürburgring GP_F_1.jpg Nürburgring GP_F_2.jpg Nürburgring GP_F_3.jpg Nürburgring GP_F_5.jpg
 
If there is an appeal, please don't take it to the public thread but create a private conversation we can deal with it from there:tup:.
If not we assume the drivers that got penalties accepted them
 
rcb929
I don't really feel like arguing now since it's been a very long day. Just ask @CodDemon101. Can you just accept your penalties and move on?
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it's to do with how the penalties are used and their consistency, i am sorry brian i was just using you as an example. congratulations on the N24 race.
 
I think the rule concerning this should be tweaked. Here are the adjustments I've come up with:

  • You must have 2 tires on the track at all times.
  • Curbs count as part of the track...
  • ...as do the painted strips of tarmac behind them. In real life these painted strips exist as a safety zone for drivers to make sure they don't wash out too wide to rejoin safely, and as long as they get the entire car back between the white lines before it ends, they aren't penalized.
  • You may overtake with the entire car off the track if you were forced off of it by another car, in which case the car which forced you off the track would incur the penalty.
All penalties would be the same as before.
 
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@CodDemon101, I allowed Filo's conversation to go on in the public thread because he was arguing against the use of an IPO we have and it's consistency, since it applies to everyone I kept it public.
 
Brutaka
@CodDemon101, I allowed Filo's conversation to go on in the public thread because he was arguing against the use of an IPO we have and it's consistency, since it applies to everyone I kept it public.
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Alright, he was getting a bit off that topic and more in his penalties thats why I said that.
 
TeamCZRRacing
I think the rule concerning this should be tweaked. Here are the adjustments I've come up with:

  • You must have 2 tires on the track at all times.
  • Curbs count as part of the track...
  • ...as do the painted strips of tarmac behind them. In real life these painted strips exist as a safety zone for drivers to make sure they don't wash out too wide to rejoin safely, and as long as they get the entire car back between the white lines before it ends, they aren't penalized.
  • You may overtake with the entire car off the track if you were forced off of it by another car, in which case the car which forced you off the track would incur the penalty.
All penalties would be the same as before.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see it where there is less interpretation of the ruling where it comes to track limits like:
  • 4 tyres on the track at all times.
  • Curbs also count as track.
  • White line outlines the limit of the track where there is no curbing.
  • 2 instances count as a penalty the 3rd 15 second penalty, + 15 seconds for any more occurrences where the driver doesn't release the gas for a second or more.
 
TNR_KING_FILO
I'd like to see it where there is less interpretation of the ruling where it comes to track limits like:
  • 4 tyres on the track at all times.
  • Curbs also count as track.
  • White line outlines the limit of the track where there is no curbing.
  • 2 instances count as a penalty the 3rd 15 second penalty, + 15 seconds for any more occurrences where the driver doesn't release the gas for a second or more.
Click to expand...
I don't see how there would be any interpretation as to whether you have two tires on the track. It's pretty black-and-white. Besides, having the rule like this would make it easier to correct a mistake without being erroneously penalized for not respecting track limits.
 
TeamCZRRacing
I don't see how there would be any interpretation as to whether you have two tires on the track. It's pretty black-and-white. Besides, having the rule like this would make it easier to correct a mistake without being erroneously penalized for not respecting track limits.
Click to expand...

But having 2 tyres off track you can interpret it at 2 tyres only needed on track.
 
TNR_KING_FILO
But having 2 tyres off track you can interpret it at 2 tyres only needed on track.
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Exactly. That's the point - so you can have two tires on the track/curb/painted tarmac and two tires off. It would help avoid scenarios where you make a mistake only to be penalized for something that probably cost you time anyway.
 
TNR_KING_FILO
Here are 2 instances where @rcb929 extends the track and where another opponent does also, yet no warning or penalty given.

View attachment 320091 View attachment 320092
Click to expand...

If you apply penalties with track limits as we see in first image, everyone or almost everyone would be penalized and the list would be longer than the entire posts of this page. The 2nd image is one of those cases I mentioned above, we can see see that the driver was trying to not exceed and get back on the track.

TNR_KING_FILO
that's a lot of defending then in the first 8 laps. the penalties need to be more thorough. like @Brutaka said 15 seconds or nothing.

i am still uncertain why there where 5 and 10 second penalties, the rules don't say anything about those.
Click to expand...

We actually reduced the penalties each 2 penalties, otherwise the penalties would be even bigger, if you're complaining about the amount of penalties right now can you imagine how it would be if there was no penalties reduced.

Also do you thnk if you use excessive track limits and chicane cutting the entire race would be fair to be penalized only by 15 seconds? Clearly no.

TeamCZRRacing
I think the rule concerning this should be tweaked. Here are the adjustments I've come up with:

  • You must have 2 tires on the track at all times.
  • Curbs count as part of the track...
  • ...as do the painted strips of tarmac behind them. In real life these painted strips exist as a safety zone for drivers to make sure they don't wash out too wide to rejoin safely, and as long as they get the entire car back between the white lines before it ends, they aren't penalized.
  • You may overtake with the entire car off the track if you were forced off of it by another car, in which case the car which forced you off the track would incur the penalty.
All penalties would be the same as before.
Click to expand...

Those rules are all considered, we actually give some sort of excuse when using those "extra" curbs.
 
TeamCZRRacing
Exactly. That's the point - so you can have two tires on the track/curb/painted tarmac and two tires off. It would help avoid scenarios where you make a mistake only to be penalized for something that probably cost you time anyway.
Click to expand...

So cases like this would be fine?
Daytona Road Course.jpg
 
TNR_KING_FILO
So cases like this would be fine?
View attachment 320118
Click to expand...
Obviously, cutting chicanes would still not be OK. The rule would exist to ensure that you can retain control of the car without being penalized for doing whatever's necessary to do so.

Pedroeol
Those rules are all considered, we actually give some sort of excuse when using those "extra" curbs.
Click to expand...

My proposed version of the rule would allow one to wash out and keep control of the car without officials having to be able to see the car misbehaving. You know how sometimes you go through a corner and the car just feels weird, so you wash it out on exit just a little more so as to make sure you don't lose it? It would help with situations like that, giving you a little more leeway to ensure you don't go around. It would also reduce the amount of penalties.
 
Pedroeol
If you apply penalties with track limits as we see in first image, everyone or almost everyone would be penalized and the list would be longer than the entire posts of this page. The 2nd image is one of those cases I mentioned above, we can see see that the driver was trying to not exceed and get back on the track.



We actually reduced the penalties each 2 penalties, otherwise the penalties would be even bigger, if you're complaining about the amount of penalties right now can you imagine how it would be if there was no penalties reduced.

Also do you thnk if you use excessive track limits and chicane cutting the entire race would be fair to be penalized only by 15 seconds? Clearly no.



Those rules are all considered, we actually give some sort of excuse when using those "extra" curbs.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying it.

2. Cutting and running with more than two tires over track boundaries. (Minor)
2A. 15 second Penalty to overall time. Drivers get two warnings. Upon the third time, they will receive a penalty. 2B. Let off the throttle to 50% or under for 3 seconds.

Doesn't go into in-depth resulting in the penalties applied.

I am not arguing with the penalties i received. The penalties were not consistent. That is what needed explaining.
 
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