Patch 2.0 oversteer bug still present! (?)

  • Thread starter mattikake
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I was in a lobby the other day with some friends, Group 5 at Imola. I was in the Skyline, my friend in the Porsche.

I was running at 95% boost, and the Porsche was at 75%, and I was getting passed on the straights like I was standing still. 20-30km/h difference in speed. In the corners, I had little to no grip, I had to Baby the car everywhere.

Meanwhile my friend in the Porsche is laughing about how much he can toss it around. He was over 10s a lap faster than me :(. We've raced in leagues before where we've traded lap times with a few tenths, for dozens of laps. He's not 10s a lap faster than me...

Or is it that the BoP is between the skyline and Porsche in Group A is laughably off?
 
twitcher
I was in a lobby the other day with some friends, Group 5 at Imola. I was in the Skyline, my friend in the Porsche.

I was running at 95% boost, and the Porsche was at 75%, and I was getting passed on the straights like I was standing still. 20-30km/h difference in speed. In the corners, I had little to no grip, I had to Baby the car everywhere.

Meanwhile my friend in the Porsche is laughing about how much he can toss it around. He was over 10s a lap faster than me :(. We've raced in leagues before where we've traded lap times with a few tenths, for dozens of laps. He's not 10s a lap faster than me...

Or is it that the BoP is between the skyline and Porsche in Group A is laughably off?
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Group 5 was one of the ones that I was having problems with, except my buddy and I were in the same exact car and having very different experiences, his was planted and mine was like driving in heavy rain.
 
Have a look at these two videos of mine that I took today.

Same car, same track, same conditions. These were both in the same career mode qualifying session, I just reset the session for the second test.

You'll see that on slicks the car skates around and there was nothing I could do over 15mins to get any more heat into the tyres. On wets (in the dry) the car was fine. However it was 4+ secs off the ai pace whereas I beat them with this car / setup at Algarve yesterday.
 
^ that definitely looks like the same issue. You always seem to get the same bogie corners. It's almost as if it's the track more than the tyres.

Also, isn't your car like 40hp down? It's supposed to be 530hp according to the stats, not the 488hp I saw yours max out at.
 
wtf?!?.....I'm going to check that right now. I've been driving my arse off to keep pace with the 90% AI. I literally end a 12 lap race dripping with sweat.

Might need to turn the FFB down on the T300.
 
The power down is easy. High altitude track and no turbo ;)

Your not pressing the DRS button to soon are you? and it's disabling when you press the brakes right?

I don't think DRS is the issue BUT...

Let me do a very very quick test here. BRB
 
Just tested this at Algarve and then back at Redbull GP.
Algarve = 530bhp
RBRGP=480bhp
I was thinking altitude like RomKnight above. This would affect the AI too I would hope.

At Algarve my tyre temps were in the 190's after a medium pace lap.
At RBRGP pushing as hard as I can I can get the tyres up to 165 tops, its sliding around all over the place and the AI are eating me for breakfast.

Please don't tell me this car has DRS.....:boggled:

Edit:FFS it does. Just tested it and its worth about 1 second round the lap so good to know but not what is costing me nearly 5 secs off the AI.
I wasn't pressing it too soon because I wasn't using it :banghead:
 
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Well... Default setup in FP with 27 track37 ambient temps is good (for me that don't drive formulas) for 1:21's on the second lap onwards on the "slick" tyre. By the third lap tyres are proper green and with 25PSI each.

It's frisky at T1 if you brake too late and try to compensate (even bigger mistake) on the exit and also on that slow T3 but TBH, it's just a Formula being a formula at slow speed to me (read no aero). Nothing major and a few tweaks on the setup should help but it's still a formula car :)

OFC though, hitting the DRS too soon... ;)

Anyway, it's very very pointy as it should so I just ease off. Even at speed if I'm not smooth I can make it want to loose the rear.

wrt to AI, good luck. I do TT or race online. I couldn't care less about career or SP mode.

I still like this car (Also like it in rF2 really) and it is still superb; according to my expectations that is.
 
RomKnight
Well... Default setup in FP with 27 track37 ambient temps is good (for me that don't drive formulas) for 1:21's on the second lap onwards on the "slick" tyre. By the third lap tyres are proper green and with 25PSI each.

It's frisky at T1 if you brake too late and try to compensate (even bigger mistake) on the exit and also on that slow T3 but TBH, it's just a Formula being a formula at slow speed to me (read no aero). Nothing major and a few tweaks on the setup should help but it's still a formula car :)

OFC though, hitting the DRS too soon... ;)

Anyway, it's very very pointy as it should so I just ease off. Even at speed if I'm not smooth I can make it want to loose the rear.

wrt to AI, good luck. I do TT or race online. I couldn't care less about career or SP mode.

I still like this car (Also like it in rF2 really) and it is still superb; according to my expectations that is.
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Thanks for taking a look. Did you note your tyre temps in the telemetry? What were you getting them up to?
 
Sorry, I didn't. In VR is a bit too small for me :(

I though I had Geforce experience to record but I have it uninstalled it seems after I didn't to record anymore for other stuff.

I know the tyres were bright green (the rear right is the first one to get to temp as it is the punished tyre, and had the brake bias forward to help the temps at the front and lessen the rears.

I can tell you they looked a lot more "green" that what you have in the video though. Guess I drive the car a bit harder but I only drive formulas occasionally. Funny it's almost always this one though :)

It locks a bit going to first gear too BTW so you may want to have a look at the LSD coast for those slow corners.

I tend to drive this car a bit like brake as straight as I can, dart on turn-in (taking to account the pointy feel ofc) as hard as I can and when pointed easy on the throttle.

Which means, late apexes most of the time for the slow corners. Might expose to inside dives while racing though but it feels better than trail braking into the corners when there's no aero helping me.
 
LPlates
Thanks for taking a look. Did you note your tyre temps in the telemetry? What were you getting them up to?
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Maybe I missed it, but weren't you lapping faster on the rain tires than the dry tires? And the rains weren't overheating either, correct?
 
LPlates
Correct.

Worth noting also is that i am on ps4 std.
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So why are people micro analysing your driving technique when the rains were faster in the dry that slicks? Clearly there's something going on other than driver input...but people want to blame your driving.....ok then.
 
twitcher
So why are people micro analysing your driving technique when the rains were faster in the dry that slicks? Clearly there's something going on other than driver input...but people want to blame your driving.....ok then.
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I've got no issue with people analysing my driving and commenting on where they think that is contributing to the issue, but like you I think something else is going on here.

The fact that nothing I try will get the tyres anywhere near the right temperature and yet they work absolutely perfectly at Algarve and other tracks with no changes to setup does seem strange to me.

I'm using the SMS default settings so they should at least be driveable right?
 
I've been posting about this on the Official forum too. Here is the last things i've been up to.

LPlates
Ok latest round of testing. I've taken things to the extreme to see what happens:

Test 1) Tyre Wear off, Full throttle, 25% Brakes, Pop clutch and hold the burnout. Tyres heat up to 180. Drive for 2 laps pushing HARD. Tyres back down to 155 degrees

Test 2) Close the brake vents, drive 3 laps HARD tyres up to 195 (brakes at 1500 and fading badly :) )

Test 3) Switch to Summer/Clear and Track Temp of 115, put car back to Loose default. Drive 3 laps. Tyres up to 185 degrees.

In all of the tests above the car never felt planted and was extremely oversteery in the same low speed corners. It wasn't as bad as with the tyres in the 150 range but it never felt good.
As I've said before, on loose or stable defaults at Algarve this car is amazing. No issues.
Here is the last test session in FP/Summer/Clear7















My driving in the slow speed corners is getting really back because I have gotten used to nursing the car round. I'm usually much better. Anyway, this is hardly my issue as you can see.

After this I tried the suggestion about softer springs, I've tried harder springs and I've tried each of those with different ride heights. No difference. I give up. I cannot get this car to grip at this circuit.
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I've been testing in Career and FP
 
Having been thoroughly defeated by my issue above I went on to try something totally different. I loaded up the community event for the raging bull.

I have never used the car before and didn't even go into the tuning page. This was the result.

Anyone that says this isn't a bug is on another planet.

 
LPlates
Having been thoroughly defeated by my issue above I went on to try something totally different. I loaded up the community event for the raging bull.

I have never used the car before and didn't even go into the tuning page. This was the result.

Anyone that says this isn't a bug is on another planet.

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You need to be more gentle with your inputs, this game is very accurate in what it simulates :lol: Kidding!!

I noticed 2 things. The traction control barely ever comes on. Even when you're on the grass spinning uncontrollably, the TC only comes on for a fraction of the time.

In the try where you show the telemetry screen...am i reading correctly that the game started you with rear tire temps above 140C?? Or are you using imperial units?
 
twitcher
You need to be more gentle with your inputs, this game is very accurate in what it simulates :lol: Kidding!!

I noticed 2 things. The traction control barely ever comes on. Even when you're on the grass spinning uncontrollably, the TC only comes on for a fraction of the time.

In the try where you show the telemetry screen...am i reading correctly that the game started you with rear tire temps above 140C?? Or are you using imperial units?
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It is imperial which means the tyres are barely warm. This is time trial mode so they should be perfect.
 
LPlates
It is imperial which means the tyres are barely warm. This is time trial mode so they should be perfect.
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So, we've got instances of the game starting a time trial on stone cold tires

An instance of wet tires being faster in the dry that dry tires

My issues where starting an offline race results in getting starting pressures (up to 0.50 higher than the set pressure, snd much higher than the recommended 1.80bar) and temps all over the map, dancing like a disco ball...correctable by restarting the session.

Instances of people saying Livetrack 3.0 behaving differently for people in the same lobby.

Instances of people driving the exact same car as someone else in tbe lobby, but getting wildly different handling.

People reporting that in online racing, often when they start a race, they feel like they're in a completely different car, with the racecar being nearly undrivable even to most gentle of inputs.


And they said they fixed the 5 major bugs lmao :lol:
 
I don't think they said they fixed the 5 major bugs. Ian said there are 5 major bugs, maybe it was true at the time he said it, which was right after game's release.

I know it's unfortunate that some people are having some of these issues, and I'm glad they are being reported and hopefully most will be fixed. I just want to say that for me personally the issues that I've encountered have been at a minimum, especially after patch 2.0. Maybe I'm playing the game the "wrong" way and not looking for issues, but the biggest complaint I have now is the AI pace when the track gets wet (they become really slow) and in general some other AI related issues, which I know is something that will be worked on for the next few month at a minimum. This doesn't mean that I haven't encountered some other minor bugs here and there, but it's been a small fraction of my experience with the game or they haven't affected me much.
 
FuriousDemon
I don't think they said they fixed the 5 major bugs. Ian said there are 5 major bugs, maybe it was true at the time he said it, which was right after game's release.

I know it's unfortunate that some people are having some of these issues, and I'm glad they are being reported and hopefully most will be fixed. I just want to say that for me personally the issues that I've encountered have been at a minimum, especially after patch 2.0. Maybe I'm playing the game the "wrong" way and not looking for issues, but the biggest complaint I have now is the AI pace when the track gets wet (they become really slow) and in general some other AI related issues, which I know is something that will be worked on for the next few month at a minimum. This doesn't mean that I haven't encountered some other minor bugs here and there, but it's been a small fraction of my experience with the game or they haven't affected me much.
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Personally, I'm not actively hunting bugs...just noticing them as I'm passing through.

Not unique to this game's community is the notion that the first time you see or feel something that seems "off", especially with regards to a handling or performance issue, the first thing you need to do is look at yourself. Setting, inputs, style, etc. And in a lot of cases, there's merit to that. I know in my own cases, several times I've wanted to blame the game for sometbing that, upon closer inspection, I could see was actually my fault.

However, with the amount of issues that I've personally had, to what others are reporting and recording, it gets increasingly tough to dismiss each spin, crash, oversteer moment as "driver error". Simply put, I no longer trust the feedback I'm getting from the game...the line between driver error and game error is getting more and more fuzzy each time I play.

The main issue is consistency. Take the time trial for example. If the game consistently loaded the same wrong pressures and temps form the start, a person could learn to work around that, and make the best of what's available. That's not what we're seeing though - we're seeing these wonky setting sometimes...it's all quite random.
 
^ agreed. I am not looking for bugs and I've not said my Formula Renault issue is a bug but i'm starting to suspect it might be.

I'm just bouncing around each element of the game, moving on to anther area when I encounter a problem I cannot resolve.

I've got a lot of patience for PCars2 and the SMS team as this game is pure gold when you get in that zone and everthing hooks up. Its just a shame its not like that all the time.
 
twitcher
Personally, I'm not actively hunting bugs...just noticing them as I'm passing through.

Not unique to this game's community is the notion that the first time you see or feel something that seems "off", especially with regards to a handling or performance issue, the first thing you need to do is look at yourself. Setting, inputs, style, etc. And in a lot of cases, there's merit to that. I know in my own cases, several times I've wanted to blame the game for sometbing that, upon closer inspection, I could see was actually my fault.

However, with the amount of issues that I've personally had, to what others are reporting and recording, it gets increasingly tough to dismiss each spin, crash, oversteer moment as "driver error". Simply put, I no longer trust the feedback I'm getting from the game...the line between driver error and game error is getting more and more fuzzy each time I play.

The main issue is consistency. Take the time trial for example. If the game consistently loaded the same wrong pressures and temps form the start, a person could learn to work around that, and make the best of what's available. That's not what we're seeing though - we're seeing these wonky setting sometimes...it's all quite random.
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Yep. This has been my problem that I've rightly or wrongly been flamed for by those who can see no fault with the game - mostly PC users at a guess. I've seen nothing but issues. Even tonight in a private lobby, in the space of an hour we get multiple disconnects, the grass turns transparent (vid to be added to the bug thread shortly) and then I find I can't join any lobbies although the latter may be an issue with the PSN.

There's so many issues, a truly staggering amount which is unique to my gaming experiences especially on a console, that it's impossible not to take an automatic default feeling that the game has gone wrong. (hence my autosig!)

Bugs are obvious, but even this thread, the slippery grass one (under debate), the downshift protection (being changed by sms), the aquaplaning one (identified an AI issue, relative performance between AI and player the baseline for concern) and the clio handling one I find I've had to fight my corner from those who can't see fault, until those that also report it enter the debate. The clio one I got schooled and that's fine. I have no problem learning no matter how it's put across. All playability issues should be open to debate, that's the point of a forum, not to be gunned down instantly.

This one is not under debate IMO. Bonafide problem. The evidence says so.
 
mattikake
Yep. This has been my problem that I've rightly or wrongly been flamed for by those who can see no fault with the game - mostly PC users at a guess. I've seen nothing but issues. Even tonight in a private lobby, in the space of an hour we get multiple disconnects, the grass turns transparent (vid to be added to the bug thread shortly) and then I find I can't join any lobbies although the latter may be an issue with the PSN.

There's so many issues, a truly staggering amount which is unique to my gaming experiences especially on a console, that it's impossible not to take an automatic default feeling that the game has gone wrong. (hence my autosig!)

Bugs are obvious, but even this thread, the slippery grass one (under debate), the downshift protection (being changed by sms), the aquaplaning one (identified an AI issue, relative performance between AI and player the baseline for concern) and the clio handling one I find I've had to fight my corner from those who can't see fault, until those that also report it enter the debate. The clio one I got schooled and that's fine. I have no problem learning no matter how it's put across. All playability issues should be open to debate, that's the point of a forum, not to be gunned down instantly.

This one is not under debate IMO. Bonafide problem. The evidence says so.
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I think there's something in there that people on PC are playing vastly different game than those on console.

The whole reason I gave up pc gaming was because I didn't want to have to constantly troubleshoot issues. I went the console route specifically so someone else would deal with that stuff for me.

Compared to any game I've played, even on pc, I've never had to do so much double checking, referencing, testing, head scratching, as I've had to do in PC2.
 
Observing videos and comments and came conclusion (hunch) at there is bigger problem on timer clock pulse what they're using for syncing physics engine timer rate, it takes those time warps on physics engine clock and "skips" lot of suspension movement calculations, causing null suspension and funny moments.
 
Yeah that was my fear- a processing power issue. It will be very difficult to fix. They would have to reduce cpu or data load to fix it and that may mean worse graphics or fewer online players.
 
mattikake
Yeah that was my fear- a processing power issue. It will be very difficult to fix. They would have to reduce cpu or data load to fix it and that may mean worse graphics or fewer online players.
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It might be only misalignment of timing pulse, like old DOS games toke timing pulse directly from cpu pulse, which mean faster games on faster processors, current gen uses real-time clock as reference time. SMS might have problem on code which reads real-time clock (as seen on SUGO time warp) as reference on game engine running speed, this SUGO problem is clear evidence of misalignment/synchronising problem between game engine and real-time clock. As game engine runs physics engine along on side and synchronised together (or should be synced) means any flaw in any of those syncs causes problems real-time+graphics engine+ physics engine should go as one fluent packet, but when you go online you need to sync this with counted latency value of online traffic (means if load on traffic goes on any way unbalanced, then client with most traffic goes out of sync and problems start).

Sorry for hard readable content, will try explain better if needed, just ask.
 

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