Patch 2.0 oversteer bug still present! (?)

  • Thread starter mattikake
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OdeFinn
It might be only misalignment of timing pulse, like old DOS games toke timing pulse directly from cpu pulse, which mean faster games on faster processors, current gen uses real-time clock as reference time. SMS might have problem on code which reads real-time clock (as seen on SUGO time warp) as reference on game engine running speed, this SUGO problem is clear evidence of misalignment/synchronising problem between game engine and real-time clock. As game engine runs physics engine along on side and synchronised together (or should be synced) means any flaw in any of those syncs causes problems real-time+graphics engine+ physics engine should go as one fluent packet, but when you go online you need to sync this with counted latency value of online traffic (means if load on traffic goes on any way unbalanced, then client with most traffic goes out of sync and problems start).

Sorry for hard readable content, will try explain better if needed, just ask.
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I know in the past there was some issues related to the CPU clock and some weird bugs showing up during pCARS 1 development, which have been improved, but this could be related. Your online comment makes some sense too, but what this tells me is this could be a nightmare to debug and fix as it could happen under very specific conditions and even if you can reproduce it, I’m not exactly sure how to fix it.
 
FuriousDemon
I know in the past there was some issues related to the CPU clock and some weird bugs showing up during pCARS 1 development, which have been improved, but this could be related. Your online comment makes some sense too, but what this tells me is this could be a nightmare to debug and fix as it could happen under very specific conditions and even if you can reproduce it, I’m not exactly sure how to fix it.
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On above shown exemple there's problem on standard PS4, not on pro, if that's common on all cases then it's easy to fix, otherwise they have bit more to do.
Standard vs. Pro, and timing counted on pro, standard lacks power to keep up -> latency on physics
Or
Host of room gets too much traffic and counted processing power vs latency fails -> latency on physics

There might be a simple pattern on those, any case SMS have bit work to do.
 
OdeFinn
On above shown exemple there's problem on standard PS4, not on pro, if that's common on all cases then it's easy to fix, otherwise they have bit more to do.
Standard vs. Pro, and timing counted on pro, standard lacks power to keep up -> latency on physics
Or
Host of room gets too much traffic and counted processing power vs latency fails -> latency on physics

There might be a simple pattern on those, any case SMS have bit work to do.
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It would explain why PS4 seems to have more/different bugs from PC.
 
FuriousDemon
It would explain why PS4 seems to have more/different bugs from PC.
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Yep.
My wildest guess #1 is this: SMS is now reading wrong register as real-time clock.
Register what they read bounces back and forth on cpu or gpu stress.
Guess #2: real-time register reading algorithm isn't synced with real-time. :)
 
OdeFinn
Yep.
My wildest guess #1 is this: SMS is now reading wrong register as real-time clock.
Register what they read bounces back and forth on cpu or gpu stress.
Guess #2: real-time register reading algorithm isn't synced with real-time. :)
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I would expect them to read the correct register, unless PS4 development guidelines/manuals are really convoluted, which could very well be, but it’s doubtful :)
The second one seems more plausible.
 
twitcher
I think there's something in there that people on PC are playing vastly different game than those on console.
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Seems to be. I still haven't dug real far into the game but I have over 40 hours in it so far and while I've run into several annoyances (mostly design decisions or omissions) I haven't really run into any serious bugs or issues. Well, other than the grip thing online, but that's probably the biggest one and it seems random. I'm sure once I start screwing with car setups and AI/career I'll run into some more bugs but for the most part my time with the game so far has been enjoyable. There are lots of little things that can be frustrating but most of them aren't bugs or glitches, they're things like not being able to save server presets or having to remap all the my wheel buttons every time I change rims that will hopefully be changed/improved through patches.
 
I had this yesterday, seems to be a problem with public lobby, I raced on a league in a private lobby and never had that bug, but yesterday i had 1:45 on daytona road on qualy and on race i have 1:47 with a lot of oversteer, same setup, same track conditions, no hot tyre, just oversteer
 
Has anyone done the Audi Manufacturer LMP1 event in career yet?... i cant tell if the car is just set up wrong, or if this bug is the issue... but i cant get a lap in without spinning in the race... tires are warm (as warm as possible, soft tires, lowest pressure). Not super familiar with tuning LMP cars so it could be the set up (mostly default) but even making tons of changes, nothing solved the problem... vicious oversteer
 
Jack Dulmage
Has anyone done the Audi Manufacturer LMP1 event in career yet?... i cant tell if the car is just set up wrong, or if this bug is the issue... but i cant get a lap in without spinning in the race... tires are warm (as warm as possible, soft tires, lowest pressure). Not super familiar with tuning LMP cars so it could be the set up (mostly default) but even making tons of changes, nothing solved the problem... vicious oversteer
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Haven't tried it, but that doesn't sound good. Soft tires, minimum pressure, in an LMP900 car...if it's going to have a handling fault, it should understeer, not oversteer. It's a wierd sensation that I get with a lot of race cars on slicks in this game...lots of oversteer, very unstable rear end - I've never driven a GT3 car, but my understanding has always been that majority of the time, you set up a racecar (especially a customer car) to be just a shade on the understeer side, to give the driver confidence to lean on the car.

Every car I've tuned in the game, I've had to stiffen the front, soften the rear, and at least double, if not triple or quadruple the locking power of the diff. Only cars I've been able to drive with confidence on the default setups in the M6 GT3 and the Enzo. This could all be down to my personal style and preference in handling, but I'm starting to question even that.
 
twitcher
Haven't tried it, but that doesn't sound good. Soft tires, minimum pressure, in an LMP900 car...if it's going to have a handling fault, it should understeer, not oversteer. It's a wierd sensation that I get with a lot of race cars on slicks in this game...lots of oversteer, very unstable rear end - I've never driven a GT3 car, but my understanding has always been that majority of the time, you set up a racecar (especially a customer car) to be just a shade on the understeer side, to give the driver confidence to lean on the car.

Every car I've tuned in the game, I've had to stiffen the front, soften the rear, and at least double, if not triple or quadruple the locking power of the diff. Only cars I've been able to drive with confidence on the default setups in the M6 GT3 and the Enzo. This could all be down to my personal style and preference in handling, but I'm starting to question even that.
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Yeah i would agree... Before 2.0 most cars felt ok (slight adjustments per track to make stable, then the in depth stuff to go fast etc.) But this LMP1 Audi at Spa is impossible to keep on track for even 3 laps... i completely loses rear tracking entry - mid corner if any lateral inertia is placed on the rear axle... im talking under 100 km/h speeds (which is slow in an LMP1 car around spa for most corners) ...
 
Jack Dulmage
Yeah i would agree... Before 2.0 most cars felt ok (slight adjustments per track to make stable, then the in depth stuff to go fast etc.) But this LMP1 Audi at Spa is impossible to keep on track for even 3 laps... i completely loses rear tracking entry - mid corner if any lateral inertia is placed on the rear axle... im talking under 100 km/h speeds (which is slow in an LMP1 car around spa for most corners) ...
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Can you record a video and upload it? I'll give the event a try later today.
 
Ok super new development haha i will post a video shortly as soon as i i can figure out how to record audio on top to explain the video as it wont make sense due to the lack of telemetry i use and the wheel doesn't rotate ...
 


So. This is my first video ive done with audio etc so bear with me and my annoying voice haha. I believe the working temperatures with the LMP1's are 100 C so only the front tires are a little hot, although you'll see in the video that didn't make a difference as the car was under-steering before the tires were heated as i have set up the car to try and battle the over-steer, and it was working. I thought that the glitch was gone as i was able to do 3 laps no problem, very little over-steer moments, and when there were it was usually just on the power a little to early, but only in la source and the bus stop. So really, no issues, was lapping faster than the AI and car felt ok (under-steer city, but stable). The video will explain the rest.
 
^ looks exactly it.

I'm wondering if this is a live track bug - suddenly the game decided it was wet but without displaying it, hence your wheel going light as well and the of course the massive loss of grip.
 
I've had this 'twitch' or 'jolt' in the steering (T300RS on PS4 here) and once that happens the FFB is gone until I reboot.

I've also noticed there is a massive jolt and a sudden change in tyre pressures sometimes when taking over from the AI, you can see this in the time trials.
 
I'm starting to notice a pattern.

I've done quite a bit of free practicing working on setups and racing those setups online now, maybe 50 races or so. Every time I come to race I find the car is roughly a second slower or so compared to FP. The reason seems to be traction and overall grip is just slightly less. Yes I am aware the live track changes the track conditions even though the weather, time, date etc. may be the same. Even the free practice track may be green but so should the track be in races at the start of each session? But as far as I can it is like this is every single time.

For e.g. doing a lot of practice laps in the 488 GT3 @ Barcelona for the gavra league I could consistently lap into the 1:47s even on cold tyres and turn in 1:46s when warmed up, best lap being a 1:46.2, potential being inside the 1:45s. 30L fuel race setup, hard tyres. I could get a lot of confidence in the car in FP to the point you can start to hustle it with it being very predictable in mild slides - being able to steer from the rear and steer using the brakes etc. But I've now had about 8 online races in the same track conditions and each time I can't hustle it. It struggles for overall grip, into, round and out of corners, front and rear and I struggle to get into the 1:47s on warm tyres. I think I've noticed the tyres seem to take a bit longer to warm up by a lap or so but need to do some more tests.

There has been no exception to this that I have seen.

I've also spoken to many others who were practicing for the same race and they were having similar issues. You could see it too. Some much better and more experienced players than me. In the online races (3 concurrent events) you can see people struggle. Loads of simple mistakes that would be the result of overdriving the car but this was what they have learned in practice. Some saying they are about a second or so slower due to the same grip issues. Difficult to say if everyone is affected though but I wonder if it is only PS4 players, not PS4 Pro players.

So it seems like a processing power issue maybe? A time delay? FPS problem? Something that isn't deliberate. Or is it deliberate?

I'm wondering if PS4 Pro users are having the same issue? I'm on a standard PS4.

Anyone else noticed this?
 
McKiernan
Would it be worth doing your practice sessions in private online lobbies?
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You mean to learn the handling of the "new" car or to see if the issue persists? I've done online practice and quali and the same issue is there. I'm wondering if it's not if there are less than 16 players because I'm sure I've had late night races in other cars with half a field and it's not been a problem.
 
mattikake
You mean to learn the handling of the "new" car or to see if the issue persists? I've done online practice and quali and the same issue is there. I'm wondering if it's not if there are less than 16 players because I'm sure I've had late night races in other cars with half a field and it's not been a problem.
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I meant for learning the car, but I suppose that would be pointless if the handling changes depending on how many are in the lobby.
 
It's weird. In PC1 you would always be faster with more people rubbering in the track in an online race as opposed to solo free practice. PC2 seems to be the reverse.
 
One of the SMS guys said over on the official forum that it takes so much cpu to run the physics that they cannot run even one AI with the same physics model.

I wonder if online mode had to run a cut down physics model even for the player. Hope not.
 
LPlates
One of the SMS guys said over on the official forum that it takes so much cpu to run the physics that they cannot run even one AI with the same physics model.

I wonder if online mode had to run a cut down physics model even for the player. Hope not.
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I'm not remotely surprised to hear this or for you to think that. From my pov and a playability pov, I'd much rather have turd graphics and a consistent, accurate and good physics model any day.

Rather than it be cut down, I'm thinking it's lagging a bit on the processing and/or the player input, which is almost as bad because the effect could be the same.

Processing on the PS4 is surely on the limit. Anyone notice how the frame rate drops the moment you put the telemetry HUD up? That's down to pure processing power.
 
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A quick update on the oversteer issues on the F:Renault at RBRGP.....

After reading some of the diff threads I started messing with extreme values. Setting the COAST diff to minimum (20deg) has made the car driveable.
Its not perfect and does squirm about a bit but can finally be driven hard without just letting go.

Maybe a diff bug? Who knows. I've posted it on the official forum.
 
LPlates
One of the SMS guys said over on the official forum that it takes so much cpu to run the physics that they cannot run even one AI with the same physics model.

I wonder if online mode had to run a cut down physics model even for the player. Hope not.
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Online does not need a cut-down physics/tyre model, as the only difference with offline play is that position and LiveTrack data is communicated to the other players. This does not tax the CPU, and hence no cut-down physics model is required.

The only place IMO where offline/online difference may occur is in LiveTrack, as this data needs to be shared between all players to ensure that everyone is seeing the same state of the track. A known bug regarding rain/track wetness has already been reported/established.
 
redi
Online does not need a cut-down physics/tyre model, as the only difference with offline play is that position and LiveTrack data is communicated to the other players.
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Source?

Or is that speculation?
Gran turismo had a different physics model for online. It's not unheard of.
 
LPlates
Yes, so I see. Thanks.

Same question then, why does locking the diff (not allowing the wheels to spin at different speeds add so much stability mid corner?
I'd like to understand the logic.
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The higher the coast diff setting the more the inside wheel wants to rotate at the same speed as the outside wheel, leading to off throttle understeer.
 

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