PC Master Race: What Are Your Thoughts?

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All right one simple question.

Why do console sell more games than PC games then?
How hard is it when the biggest developers/publishers pump out a game every 12 months, though & people buy them like sheep?

Wardez hit the nail on the head; PC sales are rarely reported these days because PC games are downloaded. The best idea of a PC game's sales would be look through Origin or Steam's most downloaded games.
Okay, then Halo 3 vs Minecraft, of for that matter Black Ops vs Diablo III.
Diablo III sales were so high because of the gigantic anticipation; it had been over a decade since Diablo II.

Minecraft is a pretty good example though considering what it is vs. the die-hards of Halo.
 
Edit* Damn DP.

Or praise it, depending on context :lol:

Mika, the only thing that needs fine tuning is your English. Beyond that, it sounds like you have experienced some serious user error issues, or have tried to run games on hardware that simply isn't cut out for the job.

As for sales, as others have pointed out, an apple to oranges comparison. For example, League of Legends has over 30 million active players each month, but is free to download and play. GTA V hasn't sold 20 million copies (last I checked) and, unlike League, isn't going to generate revenue after a player obtains a copy - freemium has become a standard in the PC gaming world and the business model is quite powerful. And it doesn't quite work for console gaming because everyone there is still hung up on physical media, or in your hilariously misuse of the term, "plug and play."

But by all means, continue to shifting issues as your argument crumbles.
 
Come on Mika, plug and play is so easy and cool on computers.

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Just plug this all in and you're done I'd say!
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There may be more plugs, but also... more play!

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Almost every gamer knows about the huge stain on the reputations of PC gamers known as the "PC Master Race". I am personally disgusted with the PCMR nerds, calling console gamers "peasants" just because of the system on which they choose to play video games (does it even really matter?). What are your thoughts on them?

There are definitely some fanboys out there that actually believe the PC Master Race is a thing. However, It is not really meant to be serious. Some of the stuff the PC Master Race guys at Reddit come up with is funny.

However, I do find PC gaming to be superior. Praise Lord Gaben. Though, I also think any kind of gaming is good gaming. There are plenty of different types of gaming. Who am I to deny someone entertainment from those?
 
I think most people who say PC gaming master race or call console gamers peasants are joking. At least I've always said it satirically. There's probably a few who mean it but they're just idiots, same as the ones that can be found in any group.

I just find overall that gaming on PC is a better experience, I like a lot of PC exclusive games, Steam as a platform is fantastic and makes a game library easy to keep track of, and I prefer keyboard and mouse in most games. Since I've started gaming on a PC I'm just over the whole disc thing. Plug and play doesn't compare to download and play. You can't buy console games in your underwear.
 
I use both PC's and consoles, and enjoy them both. However, I'd say consoles do what they're supposed to do, better.

Console pros and cons.

+ They friggin work! (unless you're unlucky, and get the YLoD, or you own an older 360, in which case, you're lucky if it doesn't die on you.)

+ They're extremely cheap comapred to PC's, and offer much higher performance from much lower specs.

+ Games work! At the most, you'll occasionally have to reset the console/game after a crash. That is it.

+ No F-ing DRM!

+ Physical copies, ensuring that I can play my games in 10, 20 or even 30 years, assuming of course my console still works at that point. (You can of course buy physical PC games as well, but most of them force you to use Steam or some other BS.)

+ Games actually get optimized for their hardware.

+ Better sound, although rarely taken advantage of by devs.

- No mods :(

- Games are more expensive.

- Next gen, you'll have to pay to play online, regardless of what console you go for :mad:.

- Beyond gaming and wathcing movies, you're very limited in what you can do on a console. Not really a minus, as that is what they're intended for. But PC's do a lot more.


PC gaming pros and cons.

+ RTS games! I love RTS games, and you just can't play those on consoles.

+ Mods!

+ Web browsing!

+ Overall has a better online experience, in my opinion.

+ If you know what you're doing, you'll get the highest graphical performance out of games.

+ GTPlanet?

- Far too often do I have to spend hours to get my games to work. And as I'm no PC wizard, I've had games that I paid for, but couldn't use. Also had to hold off buying some games, after not being able to get their demos to work (examples would be Bioshock and Just Cause 2 last Steam summer sale).

- It's far more expensive to build a proper rig, than it is to buy a console.

- Optimization? What's that? PC games, even the exclusive ones, aren't optimized for 🤬! This is a given, considering how many setups they have to make their game run on. Working with a fixed set of specs means you can fully use what you have. Or am I completely wrong here?

- DRM! And lots of it. Steam, the BS service praised by so many, needs to die horribly. Has any of you ever thought about what would happen if Valve ever got shut down, with no one to keep Steam up? Yeah, you could still play your games library. Until you have to reboot everything, that is...

- Origin! This 🤬 service deserves a whole thread on its own, describing just how horrible it is!

- More cheaters/hackers online. Also the potential for your PC getting a virus or getting hacked.


Probably missed something, but this is how I look on it. As for PC fanboys, they're every bit as bit as console fanboys, but with extra arrogance thrown in. I do apologise if the thread was meant to only discuss fanboys. I just read some comments that discussed the platforms themselves, and figured I'd give it a go. If it's solely intended for the discussion of fanboys, I'll erase the comment.
 
I use both PC's and consoles, and enjoy them both. However, I'd say consoles do what they're supposed to do, better.

Console pros and cons.

+ They friggin work! (unless you're unlucky, and get the YLoD, or you own an older 360, in which case, you're lucky if it doesn't die on you.)

PC games work too.

+ They're extremely cheap compared to PC's, and offer much higher performance from much lower specs.

For the price of a PS3 on launch, you'd still be able to run games at low settings today. And with the "pay for online" system coming on next gen consoles that is free for PC, you're looking at $800 (excluding games) over its' lifetime. That $800 is enough for a mid-tier PC.

+ Games work! At the most, you'll occasionally have to reset the console/game after a crash. That is it.

Games work too on PC. Anything that doesn't work is down to developer flaws or user error.

+ No F-ing DRM!

I'll give you that, although PC DRM is very rare and is often worked around within a few months.

+ Physical copies, ensuring that I can play my games in 10, 20 or even 30 years, assuming of course my console still works at that point. (You can of course buy physical PC games as well, but most of them force you to use Steam or some other BS.)

I have games from the mid 90s that still work fine on my computer with a little tutorial reading. I have them as well as older PS1/2 games backed up as images to a hard drive for archival.

+ Games actually get optimized for their hardware.

Games are optimized for consoles because the hardware is so poor in comparison. PCs don't have this problem, and can still run the games at higher resolutions, with better textures and framerates.

+ Better sound, although rarely taken advantage of by devs.

PC sound is as good as the developer. Even then, there's hardly or no difference between consoles and PCs.


PC gaming pros and cons.

- Far too often do I have to spend hours to get my games to work. And as I'm no PC wizard, I've had games that I paid for, but couldn't use. Also had to hold off buying some games, after not being able to get their demos to work (examples would be Bioshock and Just Cause 2 last Steam summer sale).

Games not working is down to user error somewhere, or a lazy developer. The latter of which is not exclusive to PC.

- It's far more expensive to build a proper rig, than it is to buy a console.

Hardly. The costs mentioned before, when also compounded with Steam sales means you can get the same game for half the price, with full mod capability.


- Optimization? What's that? PC games, even the exclusive ones, aren't optimized for 🤬! This is a given, considering how many setups they have to make their game run on. Working with a fixed set of specs means you can fully use what you have. Or am I completely wrong here?

Fixed systems also means limited freedom in how hard you can push hardware. With PC, a developer can create a wide range of graphical settings and options to match as many configurations as possible. With a console, this step is skipped but it means a overall downgrade in what is achievable.

- DRM! And lots of it. Steam, the BS service praised by so many, needs to die horribly. Has any of you ever thought about what would happen if Valve ever got shut down, with no one to keep Steam up? Yeah, you could still play your games library. Until you have to reboot everything, that is...

Valve said somewhere in a Q&A (not sure where, don't quote me on this) that in the unlikely event of them shutting down, all games that have been purchased would be still be available for them without any Steam services. I haven't seen any DRM on Steam anyway.

- Origin! This 🤬 service deserves a whole thread on its own, describing just how horrible it is!

Haven't used it, can't comment.

- More cheaters/hackers online. Also the potential for your PC getting a virus or getting hacked.

It's pretty hard to get a virus with adequate protection. Even with basic amounts of safeguarding, common sense will prevent most things getting on. Don't download 100kb executables, don't click on those dodgy looking ads, don't follow suspicious links etc. I don't play online, so I don't know about any cheaters of hackers.

Probably missed something, but this is how I look on it. As for PC fanboys, they're every bit as bit as console fanboys, but with extra arrogance thrown in. I do apologise if the thread was meant to only discuss fanboys. I just read some comments that discussed the platforms themselves, and figured I'd give it a go. If it's solely intended for the discussion of fanboys, I'll erase the comment.
 
Personally (and you can take this at whatever value you want to give it) I don't think Origin is as bad as people make it out to be. Steam, for example, checks all the available programs on my computer and lists them, god knows why.

Setting up Origin to boot up whenever I want is way easier than Steam, and honestly ... is the same thing, but less intrusive, more expensive and more promotional for it's own thing. I'm aware of the reputation that EA marketing has but ... I monitor data traffic with Origin, and the only process that involves data upload is sync tasks, while Steam has some data it isn't supposed to have for no reason, and that is honestly more unnerving.
 
Valve said somewhere in a Q&A (not sure where, don't quote me on this) that in the unlikely event of them shutting down, all games that have been purchased would be still be available for them without any Steam services. I haven't seen any DRM on Steam anyway.
For 30 days from what I've heard.
 
Valve said somewhere in a Q&A (not sure where, don't quote me on this) that in the unlikely event of them shutting down, all games that have been purchased would be still be available for them without any Steam services. I haven't seen any DRM on Steam anyway.

I'm going to say something that might suprise you now. Steam IS A DRM SERVICE! Gasp :eek:!

And the vast majority of big PC releases have some form of DRM. Some are more intrusive than others. But in the end, they do nothing to actually stop people from downloading games. Instead, they manage only to annoy, or outright punish, the people who actually bought their game.

And how would games be availible if Steam shut down? Where would you download them from?Simply put, if Steam ever shuts down, every single game that requires Steam for authentication, or to download from, will become nothing but a memory.
 
The "PC Master Race" thing is just a bit of fun, lol. Silly thread. PC's are more powerful and always have been more powerful than consoles, resulting in better graphics. This is where PCMR comes from, it is just a bit of fun to wind up console players.

Which it has obviously succeeded in doing.
 
IMO, there are a lot of advantages to standardized hardware. While it's become less relevant recently, I think the iOS platform versus Android for game development is the same -- when developing for iOS, you have a handful of specs you need to meet and it will work on all iOS devices. (Like I said, this was more relevant a few years ago when it was just a couple models of iphone and maybe the original ipad. Now it's gotten more complex with legacy support.) Android, however, has a vast array of UI systems from each phone manufacturer, each with its own screen resolution (and aspect ratio) and input systems.
This is not unlike console game development versus PC game development. For console games, you know the exact hardware so you can optimize for it and not worry about coding in checks. As a player, this also guarantees that everyone you play against has the exact same specs, meaning there isn't a hardware advantage/disadvantage. On PC, though, hardware can run the gamut of a thousand million configurations. Devs can attempt to account for most of them, but at the end of the day they can't test every possible one and can't guarantee it will work with yours. As a player, I know playing BF3 that my 50 fps on low quality is vastly subpar to someone running 100+ fps on ultra, which is annoying.

And I hope I don't need to bring up issues of piracy. I know VGChartz isn't known for being particularly accurate, but according to them Bf3 has sold 2.47m copies for PC as of last week, whereas according to Torrentfreak there were 3.5m pirated copies in October 2011.
 
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While Ill agree Pc gaming is usally the better platform. For anyone to say that PC gaming is as easy to get a game started on as a console is being dishonest. Sure you could just install the game and play(mostly) , but to get the best out of the game on pc takes a bit of tweaking and trial and error to get the best performance. Some games take hours to find the sweet spot others not so much, but they all need tweaking for best performance. On a console what you see is what you get. For better or worse console gaming is the easiest way to just get at the action. Not always the best action, but the easiest.
 
And how would games be availible if Steam shut down? Where would you download them from?Simply put, if Steam ever shuts down, every single game that requires Steam for authentication, or to download from, will become nothing but a memory.

You still have the CD key and the files, I'm pretty sure during the unlikely event of Steam shutting down you would have access to your games.

I honestly can't think of a negative with Steam and it's DRM is very unintrusive. Soon you'll be able to legally share games and you can install games on however many computers you like. Sure other companies like Ubisoft makes you have additional DRM, but that's not Steams fault.
 
All right one simple question.

Why do console sell more games than PC games then?

Are you talking PS3 vs PC, 360 vs PC or PS3 and 360 vs PC? If it's either of the former, you'll have to provide some actual proof that either console consistently and massively outsells PC, but if it's the latter the reason consoles sell more than PC is because people frequently lump all the non-PC platforms in to one category vs just PC. Those sales figures can be massively manipulated too; are we talking physical sales only? Physical and digital? Is it PS3 and 360 vs. just Windows-based PCs or are Linux and Mac taken into consideration too? In other words, without some actual proof of sales figures and an explanation of what they mean, that argument is fundamentally flawed.

I use both PC's and consoles, and enjoy them both. However, I'd say consoles do what they're supposed to do, better.

Console pros and cons.

+ No F-ing DRM!

PSN is DRM. If I have to give my email address and password to someone else for them to download games I've bought on my PS3, it's DRM. I could also give someone my email address and password for my Steam account to give them access, so you can see how they're the same. Of course, physical copies of games do get around that DRM, but let's discuss this again in ~5 years when everyone has realised that digital distribution is amazing so publishers don't have to worry about annoying the physical retailers to the extent that they stop stocking their games, and therefore price games realistically on PSN and Xbox Live. I already own more games digitally on PSN than I have physical copies of games on my PS3, and I've owned a PS3 since 2007.

+ Physical copies, ensuring that I can play my games in 10, 20 or even 30 years, assuming of course my console still works at that point. (You can of course buy physical PC games as well, but most of them force you to use Steam or some other BS.)

Again, I think this is going to diminish significantly in this generation. Either way, though, there is only one single hardware platform on Earth that can play DOS, Mega Drive, SNES, Game Boy, Dreamcast, Playstation, N64, PS2, GameCube and Wii games (amongst many more), that's the PC. I can't put my GT3 disc into my PS3 and play it, I can however rip it onto my PC and boot it up with an emulator.

I'm going to say something that might suprise you now. Steam IS A DRM SERVICE! Gasp :eek:!

And the vast majority of big PC releases have some form of DRM. Some are more intrusive than others. But in the end, they do nothing to actually stop people from downloading games. Instead, they manage only to annoy, or outright punish, the people who actually bought their game.

I don't think anyone can dispute this, but the worst Steam has ever done to me is when it ran out of CD keys for something, I forget what it was, so I couldn't play for a day or so. Other DRMs have given me nothing but headaches. The only flawless DRM service I've ever used is PSN.

And how would games be availible if Steam shut down? Where would you download them from?Simply put, if Steam ever shuts down, every single game that requires Steam for authentication, or to download from, will become nothing but a memory.

You're assuming that Steam works the same way as every other DRM that has ever shut down, but surely you must be able to see from the fact that it was built and is maintained by a game developer and is the single biggest retailer of games anywhere (probably, I have no proof but it is huge) that Steam is not a typical DRM. Just because Steam's authentication servers may one day be shut down does not mean Valve can't patch Steam to bypass the servers entirely. I mean bedroom hackers can come up with DRM bypass patches, so I'm sure Valve can come up with something. As for downloading games after they're gone, you can already back up all your games to DVDs if you wanted to. Personally I don't trust DVD-Rs because I've had too many become unreadable over the years, so if Valve does ever go under I'll be buying a few 2TB hard drives to keep redundant backups in fireproof safes and all that nonsense.

Personally, as ironic or contradictory as it may be, I think this entire argument is completely pointless anyway. I have a PC, 360, PS3, Mac and two Mega Drives and I want a PS Vita, Nvidia Shield (in a few years' time) and a PS4. I mainly use my PC these days for a multitude of reasons but my PS3 has gotten a workout thanks to GTA V lately. They are not the same thing so aren't directly comparable, so one is not decisively better than the other. I could say that my PC is better because I can play games at 5040x1050 using my X52 Pro and Track IR, but my PS3 is also better because I just want to play PS One classics on my sofa. See?
 
Personally, I am a console gamer. However many of my friends are PC gamers and I've played on their PCs several times.

Advantages of Consoles:

-Cheap Price, usually around $400- 500
-Many games, but not all, are optimised for console.
-Better Online services
-Lack of DRM
-Console Controllers are better than PC controllers
-More exclusives

Disadvantages of Consoles:

-Poor graphics, though this will no longer be the case with next gen.
-Games are more expensive
-Lack of a cheap Digital Download service (60 quid for FIFA, err no)
-6 year olds screaming down microphones

Advantages of PC:

-Graphics are usually best on PC.
-Cheap digital games.
-SimCity :)

Disadvantages of PC:

-Unreliable
-DRM
-Costs a lot to build, then costs even more to keep it high end.
-Not as many exclusives.

-
 
Disadvantages of PC:

-Unreliable
-DRM
-Costs a lot to build, then costs even more to keep it high end.
-Not as many exclusives.

-

I've never had a major PC problem that wasn't completely my fault, whereas I've gone through 4 PS3's and 2 360's due to them failing for no reason.

Building a gaming PC isn't as expensive as people make it out to be either, you could easily build a decent gaming system for $600.

And not as many exclusives on PC? PC's probably have the most exclusives.
 
You're assuming that Steam works the same way as every other DRM that has ever shut down, but surely you must be able to see from the fact that it was built and is maintained by a game developer and is the single biggest retailer of games anywhere (probably, I have no proof but it is huge) that Steam is not a typical DRM. Just because Steam's authentication servers may one day be shut down does not mean Valve can't patch Steam to bypass the servers entirely. I mean bedroom hackers can come up with DRM bypass patches, so I'm sure Valve can come up with something. As for downloading games after they're gone, you can already back up all your games to DVDs if you wanted to. Personally I don't trust DVD-Rs because I've had too many become unreadable over the years, so if Valve does ever go under I'll be buying a few 2TB hard drives to keep redundant backups in fireproof safes and all that nonsense.

Even so, where would you download the games from? Is Steam shuts down, so does what ever servers are hosting those downloads. Of course you can still play your games as long as you don't format your system. But Sooner or later, you probably will. And then you'd lose all the games. I have Skyrim and Wargame: European Escalation as physical games. But as far as I know, there's almost nothing on the discs. The download the games vai Steam.

As for the future being digital. Why? Why should those of us who prefere to have physical copies, get the short end of the stick? Why can't both digital and physical copies be a thing? I've heard a lot of people say that digital prices won't go down as long as physical media exists, but I really don't see why. It's compitition. What is stopping Sony and Microsoft from selling games on PSN, cheaper than they're sold in physical stores?

In any case. I don't want an all digital future. Espicially because it means giving the companies all the control. That's NEVER a good thing.
 
I've heard a lot of people say that digital prices won't go down as long as physical media exists, but I really don't see why. It's compitition. What is stopping Sony and Microsoft from selling games on PSN, cheaper than they're sold in physical stores?

It's because large game retailers are pressuring publishers to keep the digital price as high as for physical media. We're talking about the biggest companies like Gamestop for example who have a huge influence on consumers. If they don't stock a game that's a massive loss in sales for the publisher as that includes console releases as well. Of course this only applies for a certain amount of time when the game is new. Months later digital versions of games finally go on sale. The game could be cheaper on release due to no shipping costs or manufacturing costs, but they're not because physical copies have a strong market.
 
It's because large game retailers are pressuring publishers to keep the digital price as high as for physical media. We're talking about the biggest companies like Gamestop for example who have a huge influence on consumers. If they don't stock a game that's a massive loss in sales for the publisher as that includes console releases as well. Of course this only applies for a certain amount of time when the game is new. Months later digital versions of games finally go on sale. The game could be cheaper on release due to no shipping costs or manufacturing costs, but they're not because physical copies have a strong market.

While it is a nice theory and all, do you have any proof of this? Or is it just speculation based on what seems likely?
 
Are you talking PS3 vs PC, 360 vs PC or PS3 and 360 vs PC? If it's either of the former, you'll have to provide some actual proof that either console consistently and massively outsells PC,

The fact GTA V was released only on the consoles tells its own story.
 
While it is a nice theory and all, do you have any proof of this? Or is it just speculation based on what seems likely?

Do you have any proof that if Steam went away we wouldn't have our games, or is it just speculation?

The fact GTA V was released only on the consoles tells its own story.

GTAV will be released for the PC, GTA games have been released on PC after their console releases for several installments now.
 
GTAV will be released for the PC, GTA games have been released on PC after their console releases for several installments now.

If its anything like GTA4 ill pass. That game was straight garbage on the PC.
 
Do you have any proof that if Steam went away we wouldn't have our games, or is it just speculation?

Really? Who do you think pays and handles the Steam servers? Magical elfs?
If Valve shuts down, and no one resumes control over Steam, then those servers will be shut down. For the record, you actually have to download the games if you reboot your system. Even if you transfer all the filen onto a protable drive, Steam still has to download/authenticate something. Why, I do not know.
 
Really? Who do you think pays and handles the Steam servers? Magical elfs?
If Valve shuts down, and no one resumes control over Steam, then those servers will be shut down. For the record, you actually have to download the games if you reboot your system. Even if you transfer all the filen onto a protable drive, Steam still has to download/authenticate something. Why, I do not know.
You're grasping at straws trying to prove a point that will likely have the same chance of happening as Sony/Microsoft/EA/any other big company suddenly shutting down & everyone losing access to their products online.
 
If its anything like GTA4 ill pass. That game was straight garbage on the PC.

GTA4 was garbage in general. At least on PC you could mod the hell out of it and fix all the stuff Rockstar couldn't be bothered with. I assume GTA5 will be the same way.

Really? Who do you think pays and handles the Steam servers? Magical elfs?
If Valve shuts down, and no one resumes control over Steam, then those servers will be shut down. For the record, you actually have to download the games if you reboot your system. Even if you transfer all the filen onto a protable drive, Steam still has to download/authenticate something. Why, I do not know.

So you're speculating and don't actually have any proof of your claims? How about you stop calling other members out for doing exactly the same thing you're doing?

Who pays for Steam servers? Probably Valve. They sell an awful lot of copies of their games.

And really you have to download the games when you reboot you system? I reboot my system daily and I've never had to redownload anything.

Stop grasping at straws.
 
So you're speculating and don't actually have any proof of your claims? How about you stop calling other members out for doing exactly the same thing you're doing?

Who pays for Steam servers? Probably Valve. They sell an awful lot of copies of their games.

And really you have to download the games when you reboot you system? I reboot my system daily and I've never had to redownload anything.

Stop grasping at straws.

When I say reboot, I mean completely rebooting your system. As in, reinstalling your OS and everything. But I might be wrong in thinking reboot is the right word to use there.

I never said Valve would go out of business. But the possibility, however remote, is there. It all borders down to me wanting to actually own my games. Legally speaking, you don't own any of your games on Steam. That's a fact by the way. You agree to that with their terms of use.

And it's not speculation. If Steam ever were to go down, with no other business taking over, you wouldn't be able to download your games, because the source of your download would be gone. That's a very simple fact. If you had a pond, and someone took out the water, then you wouldn't be able to get water from that pond. It's as simple as that.

Saying that retailers like Gamestop are responsible for digital game prices being roughly the same as retail games, without any proof. That's speculation. I'm not saying it's wrong, in fact, I think it sounds very plausible. But without proof, it can't be considered a fact.
 
When I say reboot, I mean completely rebooting your system. As in, reinstalling your OS and everything. But I might be wrong in thinking reboot is the right word to use there.

It so wildly the wrong word one must wonder if you actually know how to use a computer :rolleyes:

I never said Valve would go out of business. But the possibility, however remote, is there. It all borders down to me wanting to actually own my games. Legally speaking, you don't own any of your games on Steam. That's a fact by the way. You agree to that with their terms of use.

This is the case with all software, fact. That means console software as you don't purchase the software/game but rather a license to use it, irregardless of having a physical copy or not.

And it's not speculation. If Steam ever were to go down, with no other business taking over, you wouldn't be able to download your games, because the source of your download would be gone. That's a very simple fact. If you had a pond, and someone took out the water, then you wouldn't be able to get water from that pond. It's as simple as that.

Minus the part where virtually all those games are hosted elsewhere, and plenty of options, illegal or not, exist for obtaining copies currently without Steam.
 

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