PC Master Race: What Are Your Thoughts?

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And it's not speculation. If Steam ever were to go down, with no other business taking over, you wouldn't be able to download your games, because the source of your download would be gone. That's a very simple fact. If you had a pond, and someone took out the water, then you wouldn't be able to get water from that pond. It's as simple as that.

It is speculation, there's no way you can possibly know that if Steam shut down you wouldn't have your games. What would probably happen, in the unlikely event of their demise, is that they would let you download your games for a set period of time without the need for Steam authentication. You could then burn them to a CD and you'd be responsible for keeping your activation key with the game.

Saying that retailers like Gamestop are responsible for digital game prices being roughly the same as retail games, without any proof. That's speculation. I'm not saying it's wrong, in fact, I think it sounds very plausible. But without proof, it can't be considered a fact.

Yes that's speculation, which is exactly what you're doing with your proof-less claims that you wouldn't have your games if Steam shut down.
 
Even so, where would you download the games from? Is Steam shuts down, so does what ever servers are hosting those downloads. Of course you can still play your games as long as you don't format your system. But Sooner or later, you probably will. And then you'd lose all the games. I have Skyrim and Wargame: European Escalation as physical games. But as far as I know, there's almost nothing on the discs. The download the games vai Steam.

Of course you're right, if Steam shuts down you'd expect access to those games to go away eventually also, but there's nothing to say that it needs to happen right away. And I can't remember if I typed it or not, but there's a feature built into Steam right now that allows you to download and backup the installers for all of your games, so you can burn them to DVDs if you want. Physical media isn't any better than that, though, if I want to go out and buy a copy of Oni or Omega Boost I wouldn't have much luck finding either on the high street; I'd have to scour Ebay or something. Not the point you were making, but it does tie into your next point.

As for the future being digital. Why? Why should those of us who prefere to have physical copies, get the short end of the stick? Why can't both digital and physical copies be a thing? I've heard a lot of people say that digital prices won't go down as long as physical media exists, but I really don't see why. It's compitition. What is stopping Sony and Microsoft from selling games on PSN, cheaper than they're sold in physical stores?

It's just the way things go; it happened to music, it's happening to films and it'll happen to games. Eventually you won't even be downloading a copy of your game, you'll be signing into a service just as you do with Netflix, last.fm and YouTube which stores your games on a remote server somewhere and you just access it via the internet. OnLive was too early, but this stuff Sony are talking about with GaiKai which will let you stream backwards compatible games is the future of all things. There's absolutely no reason they couldn't just stream PS4 games as well, after all you're just uploading button presses and downloading images and sound. I don't know what it's like where you live but in the UK, ten years ago we had the choice of Virgin, HMV and Game to buy our physical games from. Since then, Virgin's entertainment retail stores became Zavvi, then Zavvi went bust. HMV went bust and was bought out by someone else, but it's now a very budget ghost of what it used to be; last time I went to an HMV they had all this random stuff in baskets on tables and it was just terrible. Game went bust and was bought out by someone else, they're just about surviving too with far fewer stores than they used to have. When I was looking to buy GTA V my choices were Sainsburys, Tesco and Asda; all supermarket chains. The physical entertainment industry has been killed by the move to digital.

Now consider the ultimate control Sony and Microsoft would have if they convinced everyone to go digital. They own the only store for their platforms, so they set the price and they have control. Why wouldn't they push for that? Look how well it's worked for Valve with Steam! They'd be mad to not want the same economy for their consoles, and you bet they'll entice you with any means necessary. PlayStation Plus is the perfect example; free copies of digital games! People will fall in love with digital distribution, it's only a matter of time. Then they can cut out the disc production and distribution costs and take the retail fees for themselves. They could leave prices the same as the average retail is now (i.e. not the stupidly inflated PSN prices) and probably double their profits.

In any case. I don't want an all digital future. Espicially because it means giving the companies all the control. That's NEVER a good thing.

Yeah, but they want it, so they'll take it if they can, and they really can. What can you do about it? If you want to keep gaming in an all-digital future, you can either let Sony, Microsoft and Valve lock you in to their DRM platform, or you could exclusively support indie game developers on PC and buy DRM-free games directly from the developer. You can do that now, in fact.

It's because large game retailers are pressuring publishers to keep the digital price as high as for physical media. We're talking about the biggest companies like Gamestop for example who have a huge influence on consumers. If they don't stock a game that's a massive loss in sales for the publisher as that includes console releases as well. Of course this only applies for a certain amount of time when the game is new. Months later digital versions of games finally go on sale. The game could be cheaper on release due to no shipping costs or manufacturing costs, but they're not because physical copies have a strong market.

It's not just that retailers want digital prices to stay as high as physical, they want them to stay even higher. If the prices were exactly the same physical retail would die very quickly, so there needs to be some incentive for people to buy digital.

While it is a nice theory and all, do you have any proof of this? Or is it just speculation based on what seems likely?

If you want proof of how retailers manipulate big companies, look what happened when Microsoft wanted to kill used game sales. You surely heard the stories of how people were being advised to preorder a PS4 instead of an Xbox One? Used game retail is huge business for retailers, so they effectively tried to convince customers to boycott Microsoft over it.

The thing is, though, this might end up benefiting everyone. Did you know that it costs upwards of $20k for a publisher to release a big patch for a game? I don't know if that's still the figure but Tim Schafer (of Double Fine) has been quoted as saying that at some point. That's a huge amount of money, which is why games that flopped get no support whatsoever on consoles, it's also why you usually find many more updates being published for games on PC (because they're free to release). If Sony and Microsoft make that money at sale (by owning the only shop selling the product and cutting out printing, distribution and retail costs), maybe updates will become free on consoles as well. This is pretty much the same reasoning EA had for Origin; they just wanted a bigger cut than Valve was giving them.

The fact GTA V was released only on the consoles tells its own story.

Yeah, a completely unrelated, soon-to-be-moot story.


And yes, I am trying to win an argument using walls of text.
 
While it is a nice theory and all, do you have any proof of this? Or is it just speculation based on what seems likely?

I think "large retailers have massive influence over the products they sell" is a bit more than something that "seems likely" or is "speculation." Hardware launch prices have had to be adjusted to placate retailers (and that's in America, where the manufacturer has some control over it. In European countries, they can charge whatever they want, as seen with the massive fluctuation of Wii U prices). Systems have been boycotted outright because retailers want nothing to do with them. What's the hardware company going to do if you can't find a way to sell your stuff because retailers are pissed at you (as what happened with the PSP Go)?


The thing is, though, this might end up benefiting everyone. Did you know that it costs upwards of $20k for a publisher to release a big patch for a game? I don't know if that's still the figure but Tim Schafer (of Double Fine) has been quoted as saying that at some point. That's a huge amount of money, which is why games that flopped get no support whatsoever on consoles, it's also why you usually find many more updates being published for games on PC (because they're free to release).

It was $40,000, it was reportedly only Microsoft who did it; and they dropped it a few months ago amidst the rapid backtracking for the XBone. Though it also seemed to be preestablished by their publishing contracts, too.
 
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It so wildly the wrong word one must wonder if you actually know how to use a computer :rolleyes:

I know this might be hard to believe, but not eveyone has English as their first language. Try opening a book about geographics sometime. The World is bigger than America, you know.

On another note, interesting read Neema and Tornado. Cheers for that.
 
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I know this might be hard to believe, but not eveyone has English as their first language. Try opening a book about geographics sometime. The World is bigger than America, you know.

When I'm working with words I'm not familiar with, regardless of language, I make a point of looking them up. It has the benefit of expanding my own vocabulary while avoiding putting my foot in my mouth (well, more than I normally do) so please don't take the "pfft, English speaker" attitude with me 💡
 
When I'm working with words I'm not familiar with, regardless of language, I make a point of looking them up. It has the benefit of expanding my own vocabulary while avoiding putting my foot in my mouth (well, more than I normally do) so please don't take the "pfft, English speaker" attitude with me 💡

You think perhaps I used the word 'cause I thought it was correct? But hey, lets continue the discussion in Danish. Lets see how well you keep up then. It's people like you who enforce the stereotype of ignorant Americans who demand that everyone speaks their language perfectly, yet they only know one language themselves. For the record, I appreciate getting corrected on my English. Just have a tiny bit of respect when doing so.
 
You think perhaps I used the word 'cause I thought it was correct? But hey, lets continue the discussion in Danish. Lets see how well you keep up then. It's people like you who enforce the stereotype of ignorant Americans who demand that everyone speaks their language perfectly, yet they only know one language themselves. For the record, I appreciate getting corrected on my English. Just have a tiny bit of respect when doing so.

Then have a tiny bit of respect before you go making a list of speculative claims and spout misinformation as if fact. Or jump to making snide remarks about stating facts on DRM and such. You didn't exactly ingratiate yourself in this thread with your posts thus far. And thus the attitudes of many responding to you in here. Funny how that works, right? Or make a great deal of assumptions about the languages I do or don't speak, not to mention Danish isn't exactly relevant to most all of the world so playing that card would have similar results with damn near anyone from anywhere.

Perhaps you should look in the mirror for a bit before you continue lecturing people on respect.
 
Then have a tiny bit of respect before you go making a list of speculative claims and spout misinformation as if fact. Or jump to making snide remarks about stating facts on DRM and such. You didn't exactly ingratiate yourself in this thread with your posts thus far. And thus the attitudes of many responding to you in here. Funny how that works, right? Or make a great deal of assumptions about the languages I do or don't speak, not to mention Danish isn't exactly relevant to most all of the world so playing that card would have similar results with damn near anyone from anywhere.

Perhaps you should look in the mirror for a bit before you continue lecturing people on respect.

Do tell when I said anything regarding DRM that wasn't factual. Steam is DRM. Neema does have a point when he says PSN itself is a DRM service as well, however, to my knowledge, no retail games require it. Meaning that only the fairly small amount (at least in the European store) of digital only titles on PSN, have DRM.

Original point was that while most big PC games have some form of DRM, console games (or at least the physical ones), don't. But Again, do explain to me how that is false.

Admittedly, I wasn't aware that you, as Neema says, can download the actual installers from Steam, and not have to validate the files after that. I have a friend who copied all the files to his portable, only for Steam to re-authenticate everything when he was done with reinstalling his OS. He knows his way around PC's and Steam, so Its surprising to me that he'd miss such a thing.

But yeah. Perhaps, Steam has changed to include such a feature. In which case, I was wrong. Believe it or not, sometimes people are wrong. Of course someone as perfect as yourself is never wrong. You still don't own your games, as evident in Steam's terms of use. And legally, they can shut Down their service, without you having any chance to download your games, anytime they want. Why would they do this, when they have such a sweet deal going? Hell if I know. And I don't care. All I know and care about is that they can, and that there isn't anything I can do about it, should it ever happen. How people can be okay with this, is far beyond me.

In case you haven't read the terms of use. Here's a quote.

"Steam and your Subscription(s) require the automatic download and installation of Software onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a limited, terminable, non-exclusive license and right to use the Software for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms) in accordance with this Agreement, including the Subscription Terms. The Software is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Software. To make use of the Software, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet."


Ohh, and for my favorite bit. When did I do/say anything even remotely aggressive or disrespectful to anyone in this thread, except in my responses to you? Is asking for proof to back up a statement, disrespectful. I certainly don't think so, which is why I've responded best I could to anyone asking for proof on why you'd lose your games if Steam ever shut down. The only one giving attitude in here, that I can see, is you. The discussion went along in a perfectly civil matter, until you came along, demanding perfect English. Sure, there were different opinions, but it was civil none the less.
 
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And legally, they can shut Down their service, without you having any chance to download your games, anytime they want. Why would they do this, when they have such a sweet deal going? Hell if I know. And I don't care. All I know and care about is that they can, and that there isn't anything I can do about it, should it ever happen. How people can be okay with this, is far beyond me.
People trust Valve, people trust Gabe Newell. That's why. Valve have built up a very good rapport in the PC gaming arena over the years.

Gabe Newell has even stated that in the event Steam is knocked offline for good, Valve will be able to remove the authentication from everybody's accounts, so you won't lose any games...
 
Admittedly, I wasn't aware that you, as Neema says, can download the actual installers from Steam, and not have to validate the files after that. I have a friend who copied all the files to his portable, only for Steam to re-authenticate everything when he was done with reinstalling his OS. He knows his way around PC's and Steam, so Its surprising to me that he'd miss such a thing.

Ah, no, sorry, that's not what I meant. What I was saying was that you can download the installers so that you have a physical backup of your games in case anything does happen to Steam, but at the moment you still have to authenticate the games (i.e. log in) when you want to play them. Should Steam die and Valve were to release a DRM bypass, combined with the physical backups of the installers for your games, you'd still have access to everything you'd bought from them. I can't find any solid evidence but if you Google around the place, there seems to be loads of anecdotal evidence (which means nothing, of course) that 'Valve have said' that they can essentially flip a switch and disable Steamworks DRM should the authentication servers go offline. If that's true, if you have a backup of all your stuff, you'll at least be able to play your Steamworks games whenever you want. The numerous double- and triple-DRM-disasters will be up the creek without a paddle if those DRMs are switched off and not patched out, though, as we're going to see next year with GFWL. Codemasters, Rockstar, From Software and more have some patching to do if they want people to still be able to play Dirt 3, GTA IV and Dark Souls... At least the Arkham games have already been patched though.
 
Do tell when I said anything regarding DRM that wasn't factual. Steam is DRM.

What wasn't factual? The part where you said if Steam shut down, you'd lose your games and couldn't play them. Unless you can provide something that supports this, it's not fact, it's speculation. I doubt you can find anything though. All you managed to dig up was the ToS, which stated you "technically" don't "own" your games.

Sharky also pointed out that Gabe said Steam users have nothing to worry about with regards to that.
 
Slight correction/rewording to make neema, you can back up your games as a whole and restore them at a later date (during which the game will go through an installing from disk process) but you have to first have the game 1) installed and 2) fully up to date. It's not really an installer as such, because Steam itself does the installing.
 
Slight correction/rewording to make neema, you can back up your games as a whole and restore them at a later date (during which the game will go through an installing from disk process) but you have to first have the game 1) installed and 2) fully up to date. It's not really an installer as such, because Steam itself does the installing.

Well, as long as the end result is that you don't have to download anything from Steam once you've backed it up, it's pretty much the same thing in the end... Right? In any case, I trust Valve to have plan 'Not massively screw over millions of customers' already laid out for when Steam finally dies. And it definitely will one day, nothing lasts forever, even if it goes on living right up until the day the Sun destroys us, millions of years from now. That's the star, not the "newspaper".
 
What wasn't factual? The part where you said if Steam shut down, you'd lose your games and couldn't play them. Unless you can provide something that supports this, it's not fact, it's speculation. I doubt you can find anything though. All you managed to dig up was the ToS, which stated you "technically" don't "own" your games.

Sharky also pointed out that Gabe said Steam users have nothing to worry about with regards to that.

I never said that, or if I did, it's not what I meant. What I said/meant, was that if Steam dies, your game library would essentially dissapear if you ever were to format(?) your system. Never did I mean to imply that you couldn't play your games if Steam died.

People trust Valve, people trust Gabe Newell. That's why. Valve have built up a very good rapport in the PC gaming arena over the years.

Gabe Newell has even stated that in the event Steam is knocked offline for good, Valve will be able to remove the authentication from everybody's accounts, so you won't lose any games...

Yeah. As president of Valve, maybe he didn't think it would go over well with the consumers, if he said that they would basically be screwed if Steam died. So Valve could potentially do away with the authentication if needed. But they aren't legally required to do so. I realise that Valve as done fairly good by their consumers Thus far. But we don't know what lies in wait in the future. New management could turn the Company around. It could go bankrupt through a series of unfortunate happenings. Lots of Things could happen, and the only thing protecting the consumers, is the hope that they'll do what's right for us, should something bad ever happen.

Sorry to say, but that doesn't really put my mind at ease.

Ah, no, sorry, that's not what I meant. What I was saying was that you can download the installers so that you have a physical backup of your games in case anything does happen to Steam, but at the moment you still have to authenticate the games (i.e. log in) when you want to play them. Should Steam die and Valve were to release a DRM bypass, combined with the physical backups of the installers for your games, you'd still have access to everything you'd bought from them. I can't find any solid evidence but if you Google around the place, there seems to be loads of anecdotal evidence (which means nothing, of course) that 'Valve have said' that they can essentially flip a switch and disable Steamworks DRM should the authentication servers go offline. If that's true, if you have a backup of all your stuff, you'll at least be able to play your Steamworks games whenever you want. The numerous double- and triple-DRM-disasters will be up the creek without a paddle if those DRMs are switched off and not patched out, though, as we're going to see next year with GFWL. Codemasters, Rockstar, From Software and more have some patching to do if they want people to still be able to play Dirt 3, GTA IV and Dark Souls... At least the Arkham games have already been patched though.

Thanks for clearing that up. So that kind of confirms what I said about you potentially losing all of your Steam games, should Steam ever die, and you for whatever reason have to format your system? Granted, Valve can potentially fix it, so you can install the games without authentication.

I Wonder if I'm still able to play Red Faction and Toy Soldier after GFWL shutting Down? Hated that thing.
 
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That (middle paragraph) is a completely understandable point of view, this might be of interest to you: Gabe Newell on removing Valve from Steam - Rock Paper Shotgun. It's an interesting thought, and one that would no doubt require a rethink on how DRM works, if they're no longer the ones holding the keys (literally as well as figuratively).


Thanks for clearing that up. So that kind of confirms what I said about you potentially losing all of your Steam games, should Steam ever die, and you for whatever reason have to format your system? Granted, Valve can potentially fix it, so you can install the games without authentication.

Not really, because if you back up all your games now to DVD-Rs or Blu Rays or whatever, then if Steam does shut down, you'll be able to reinstall them without having to download the games from the internet via Steam. In other words, if I back up my games tonight, delete them (but leave Steam.exe on a USB stick), unplug my internet connection, format my PC and run Steam.exe, I should then be able to restore my backed up games to install them instead of plugging my LAN cable back in. As for authentication, I guess that would be a problem, but the actual game data I want from Steam would exist locally instead.

I Wonder if I'm still able to play Red Faction and Toy Soldier after GFWL shutting Down? Hated that thing.

Toy Soldiers has been patched already so that you can choose between Steamworks and GFWL, but Red Faction (Guerilla) will more than likely not be patched since THQ died. I don't know who has the Red Faction IP now, and I don't know if Volition still exist as a studio or if they've been assimilated or disbanded or what, but it's a complicated situation. It's a legacy title, though, so I'm not sure it needs to connect to GFWL for you to be able to save. Here's some sort-of related reading.


To relate this DRM chat to the topic, if the possibility of Steam shutting down is putting you off of PC gaming, bear in mind that one day - sooner, I'm sure, than Steam will be in any danger of shutting down - Sony and Microsoft will stop supporting the current generation consoles. You know when PSN or Xbox Live is down for a few hours and you can't download, update or play games online? Or, better yet, that ApocalyPS3 thing? One day that will be permanent and completely irreversible. You can back up your PS3's hard drive the same as you can back up your Steam account or entire PC, but if you don't and ever need to format your PS3 after the PSN store is turned off you'll never be able to download your games again, you'll never be able to update anything (kind of crucial for GT5) and, obviously, you won't be able to play online which will kill a lot of games completely dead; GTA Online, Call of Duty whatever, etc. So it's not something that only affects Steam.
 
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I use both PC's and consoles, and enjoy them both. However, I'd say consoles do what they're supposed to do, better.

Console pros and cons.

+ They friggin work! (unless you're unlucky, and get the YLoD, or you own an older 360, in which case, you're lucky if it doesn't die on you.)

+ They're extremely cheap comapred to PC's, and offer much higher performance from much lower specs.

+ Games work! At the most, you'll occasionally have to reset the console/game after a crash. That is it.

+ No F-ing DRM!

+ Physical copies, ensuring that I can play my games in 10, 20 or even 30 years, assuming of course my console still works at that point. (You can of course buy physical PC games as well, but most of them force you to use Steam or some other BS.)

+ Games actually get optimized for their hardware.

+ Better sound, although rarely taken advantage of by devs.

- No mods :(

- Games are more expensive.

- Next gen, you'll have to pay to play online, regardless of what console you go for :mad:.

- Beyond gaming and wathcing movies, you're very limited in what you can do on a console. Not really a minus, as that is what they're intended for. But PC's do a lot more.


PC gaming pros and cons.

+ RTS games! I love RTS games, and you just can't play those on consoles.

+ Mods!

+ Web browsing!

+ Overall has a better online experience, in my opinion.

+ If you know what you're doing, you'll get the highest graphical performance out of games.

+ GTPlanet?

- Far too often do I have to spend hours to get my games to work. And as I'm no PC wizard, I've had games that I paid for, but couldn't use. Also had to hold off buying some games, after not being able to get their demos to work (examples would be Bioshock and Just Cause 2 last Steam summer sale).

- It's far more expensive to build a proper rig, than it is to buy a console.

- Optimization? What's that? PC games, even the exclusive ones, aren't optimized for 🤬! This is a given, considering how many setups they have to make their game run on. Working with a fixed set of specs means you can fully use what you have. Or am I completely wrong here?

- DRM! And lots of it. Steam, the BS service praised by so many, needs to die horribly. Has any of you ever thought about what would happen if Valve ever got shut down, with no one to keep Steam up? Yeah, you could still play your games library. Until you have to reboot everything, that is...

- Origin! This 🤬 service deserves a whole thread on its own, describing just how horrible it is!

- More cheaters/hackers online. Also the potential for your PC getting a virus or getting hacked.


Probably missed something, but this is how I look on it. As for PC fanboys, they're every bit as bit as console fanboys, but with extra arrogance thrown in. I do apologise if the thread was meant to only discuss fanboys. I just read some comments that discussed the platforms themselves, and figured I'd give it a go. If it's solely intended for the discussion of fanboys, I'll erase the comment.

It was meant to discuss fanboys, but I love the points you made on both Console and PC! I'd really like it if you left this post up. :)
 
The above post you quoted.

Sound better on consoles? Based on what exactly? The sound is as good as the developer, but with more options available on PC for hardware (high quality sound cards, 7.1 surround etc) it actually makes sound better on the PC.

Origin is the devil? I don't like it but really it is no different to steam, download speeds are no different to steam and ease of use is not really any different to steam. I prefer steam because I've used it for years, and because it is cheaper, but Origin is essencially the same thing and really not a big deal.

DRM? Xbox Live + PSN are DRM. Steam hasn't hurt my gameplay experience, I press install and it installs everything for me, it will even do it with mods. I press play and it plays the game. It couldn't be any more easy these days. Spending hours to get a game working is unheard of, it takes no more time than it does to play console games these days, since you always have to download an update. If anything the PS3 updates tend to take longer to install.


As for being able to play your games in 30 years time, it's fairly easy to play your 20+ year old console games on the PC, thanks to emulators and roms. Pre-CD console era every game released is available and working. As for 20+ year old PC games they can be ran with Dosbox, or by using an old PC with an old operating system like you would need to do with old console games and the console they belond to.
 
The above post you quoted.

Sound better on consoles? Based on what exactly? The sound is as good as the developer, but with more options available on PC for hardware (high quality sound cards, 7.1 surround etc) it actually makes sound better on the PC.

Origin is the devil? I don't like it but really it is no different to steam, download speeds are no different to steam and ease of use is not really any different to steam. I prefer steam because I've used it for years, and because it is cheaper, but Origin is essencially the same thing and really not a big deal.

DRM? Xbox Live + PSN are DRM. Steam hasn't hurt my gameplay experience, I press install and it installs everything for me, it will even do it with mods. I press play and it plays the game. It couldn't be any more easy these days. Spending hours to get a game working is unheard of, it takes no more time than it does to play console games these days, since you always have to download an update. If anything the PS3 updates tend to take longer to install.


As for being able to play your games in 30 years time, it's fairly easy to play your 20+ year old console games on the PC, thanks to emulators and roms. Pre-CD console era every game released is available and working. As for 20+ year old PC games they can be ran with Dosbox, or by using an old PC with an old operating system like you would need to do with old console games and the console they belond to.

It's based on how compressed sound has to be when shipping on a DVD, compared to on a Blu-Ray. As I said, very few games/devs actually take advantage of this. Of course, you wouldn't have to compress the sound in a digital release, but I've yet to see any of the major PC releases have sound that's either fully uncompressed, or in lossless DTS HD master/Dolby Digital True HD.

Origin is a pathetic attempt from EA to break into the digital market. It works like utter crap and has a horrible game library (last I checked). Also, I don't want to have my PC loaded with a gazillion different systems for every game. Seriously, when I buy a game, then it's the game I'm interested in. I don't want additional BS to run in the background.

I've had several PC games where I had to spend hours getting them to work. Battlefield 2 with it insisting that my CD key wasn't valid. Battlefield 3 simply won't install (that's a waste of friggin money!). And I had several problems getting games like CoD 2 and Medal of Honor: Airborne to work on W7 32 bit (whether or not they'll work fine on my current rig, I have no idea). Bioshock and Just Cause 2 simply refuse to even launch on my rig, and don't even get me started on how much of a pain it was to get Metro 2033 running. I could go on, but I think I've said enough.

Of course, you might have more luck with your own setup. But it is to be expected that some setups will cause problems with games. Afterall, devs can't optimize for and take into account the thousand different configurations, now can they? Not having standarised hardware has both a good side and a bad.

I won't get into emulators, as I've never used one, no am I going to. See, that's the whole point of still being able to play my old games on whatever system I got them for.

- - -

Once again, i thank you for the info, neema :cheers:.
 
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It's based on how compressed sound has to be when shipping on a DVD, compared to on a Blu-Ray. As I said, very few games/devs actually take advantage of this. Of course, you wouldn't have to compress the sound in a digital release, but I've yet to see any of the major PC releases have sound that's either fully uncompressed, or in lossless DTS HD master/Dolby Digital True HD.

Origin is a pathetic attempt from EA to break into the digital market. It works like utter crap and has a horrible game library (last I checked). Also, I don't want to have my PC loaded with a gazillion different systems for every game. Seriously, when I buy a game, then it's the game I'm interested in. I don't want additional BS to run in the background.

I've had several PC games where I had to spend hours getting them to work. Battlefield 2 with it insisting that my CD key wasn't valid. Battlefield 3 simply won't install (that's a waste of friggin money!). And I had several problems getting games like CoD 2 and Medal of Honor: Airborne to work on W7 32 bit (whether or not they'll work fine on my current rig, I have no idea). Bioshock and Just Cause 2 simply refuse to even launch on my rig, and don't even get me started on how much of a pain it was to get Metro 2033 running. I could go on, but I think I've said enough.

Of course, you might have more luck with your own setup. But it is to be expected that some setups will cause problems with games. Afterall, devs can't optimize for and take into account the thousand different configurations, now can they? Not having standarised hardware has both a good side and a bad.

I won't get into emulators, as I've never used one, no am I going to. See, that's the whole point of still being able to play my old games on whatever system I got them for.

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Once again, i thank you for the info, neema :cheers:.

But my point is that you could still play your old PC games with your old PC, in the same way that you can play your old console games with your old console. But with the PC there are pretty simple methods to allow you to play your old PC games on your modern PC too. Emulation is pretty straight forward and has been popular for probably 15 years or more, I remember playing SNES games on my PC in my teens.

As for the Sound compression thing, only PS3 uses Blu-ray and I've never heard of games using uncompressed sounds, uncompressed audio takes up masses of space (10mb per minute at 44.4/16bit) and really 320kb MP3 audio is at such a quality that you would never hear a difference without studio quality speakers and an exceptional sound card (latter neither console has).

The "better quality sound because of more room on a blue-ray" is just a possibility in an ideal world scenario that in the current generation only applies to PS3. It is at best a fantasy pulling at straws kinda statement.



Your dislike of Origin seems to have not much logic other than you don't like it "because". I don't see how that is much of an arguement.
 
I love how this thing morphed into an actual PC vs. Console debate xD
 
I love how this thing morphed into an actual PC vs. Console debate xD

It was that from the beginning. A console gamer being angry at pc gamers for using the phrase "PC Master Race". It was never anything other than a PC vs Console debate!
 
But my point is that you could still play your old PC games with your old PC, in the same way that you can play your old console games with your old console. But with the PC there are pretty simple methods to allow you to play your old PC games on your modern PC too. Emulation is pretty straight forward and has been popular for probably 15 years or more, I remember playing SNES games on my PC in my teens.

As for the Sound compression thing, only PS3 uses Blu-ray and I've never heard of games using uncompressed sounds, uncompressed audio takes up masses of space (10mb per minute at 44.4/16bit) and really 320kb MP3 audio is at such a quality that you would never hear a difference without studio quality speakers and an exceptional sound card (latter neither console has).

The "better quality sound because of more room on a blue-ray" is just a possibility in an ideal world scenario that in the current generation only applies to PS3. It is at best a fantasy pulling at straws kinda statement.



Your dislike of Origin seems to have not much logic other than you don't like it "because". I don't see how that is much of an arguement.

MGS4 supposedly has uncompressed audio. I say supposedly, because different sources say different things. I do remember reading a quote from Kojima Productions (can't remember if it was Hideo himself) stating that the audio was uncompressed.

Uncharted 1 and 2 offers uncompressed 7.1 PCM audio.

The following is a list of PS3 games that supposedly support 5.1 and/or 7.1 uncompressed audio. Resistance 1 and 2, SOCOM: Confontation, Siren, Genji, Infamous, Warhawk, Virtual Fighter 5, Devil May Cry 4, Mirror's Edge and Dead Space. These are games that I found online, so I can't say for sure if they actually do offer this.

I'd be suprised if Killzone 2 didn't have it as well.

As for the actual difference in audio, I'm not sure how noticable it is. I do know that it is as close you'll get to what the audio designers actually want you to hear. I don't have a dedicated sound card, but even if I did, I can't really see how I'd setup everything to get proper surround sound. And judging from reviews, headsets with surround sound don't quite offer the same level of quality and atmosphere. Hence why I think sound on consoles,espicially the PS3, is superior.
 
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It was that from the beginning. A console gamer being angry at pc gamers for using the phrase "PC Master Race". It was never anything other than a PC vs Console debate!

OP was asking what we thought about the "PC Master Race" people. We told him, wrapped up what it was, then it turned into an actual debate.

It's like having a meeting about preventing the spread of hard drugs, some guy tosses in a bag of meth and everyone goes nuts.
 
I don't have a dedicated sound card, but even if I did, I can't really see how I'd setup everything to get proper surround sound. And judging from reviews, headsets with surround sound don't quite offer the same level of quality and atmosphere. Hence why I think sound on consoles,espicially the PS3, is superior.
you don't need a dedicated sound card. As long as you have a graphics card from nvidia made since the 500 series or any AMD card all you do is run your hdmi cable from your video card to your surround sound receiver than from the receiver to your tv or monitor and you've got surround sound. It's just as easy as setting up a console for surround sound. If you go dvi for video just run your optical from your mobo to your receiver for sound. You don't need a dedicated sound card. It will actually make your audio worse if your using a decent AVR. Let the AVR do the decoding like its suppose to, just like you would with a console.

In no way is the sound on consoles superior to PC gaming. They are equal as far as quality and ease of setup. You set them up just like a ps3 unless you have a really old graphics card and in that case you won't be gaming on that PC anyway.
 
It was that from the beginning. A console gamer being angry at pc gamers for using the phrase "PC Master Race". It was never anything other than a PC vs Console debate!

Ummmm, no, actually. I was asking what people thought about the "PC Master Race". Yes, I am angry with those people (although I will take it with a grain I salt, knowing now that it is a joke for the most part), I made this topic to discuss what people thought of them. Although, now it looks like it has turned into a discussion about the various pros and cons of both console and PC.
 
Speaking of which, how about we get back on topic? I don't want this thread to get shut down. Thanks! :)
 
I think the the PC master race has a point. I got back into PC games a few years ago and it has a ton to offer. It's only for the hardcore gamers though as it is not plug and play.

I really think if everyone on consoles had the opportunity to see what a high end PC can do everyone would admit that as far as just the actual gaming experience is concerned its a lot better. I can see why PC only people feel as though they are playing better games and having a better experience.

I can also see why console only players are aggravated by the PC gamers. PC gaming is not for everyone. It's not always plug and play and some people want it to be as easy as it can be to get into a game. It's also fairly expensive ($4000-$5000) to get the most out of the PC gaming experience so some just can't afford it. No one wants to think the best is out of their reach so they will argue console is better.

Either way as long as your enjoying your games it doesn't matter. I wouldn't say I'm part of the master race, but I would say PC gaming is leaps and bounds better than console gaming as long as your willing to put some work and money into it. Do I feel like I'm better because I like PC games better? No, but some people just need to feel that some part of their life is superior too others.
 
It's only for the hardcore gamers though as it is not plug and play.

If anything I would say PC's offer just about everyone a good gaming experience. Sure games like Skyrim are more for hardcore gamers, but something like Bejeweled or the Sims are really casual games that can be enjoyed by someone in their 80's.

It's also fairly expensive ($4000-$5000) to get the most out of the PC gaming experience so some just can't afford it.

PC gaming is as expensive as you make it, you can build a really good system for about $1,000.
 
If anything I would say PC's offer just about everyone a good gaming experience. Sure games like Skyrim are more for hardcore gamers, but something like Bejeweled or the Sims are really casual games that can be enjoyed by someone in their 80's.

Skyrim is hardly a hardcore gaming game :p Eve, on the other hand, is absurdly hardcore.

PC gaming is as expensive as you make it, you can build a really good system for about $1,000.

And you can arguable build something for a few hundred less than that and still play most all games at console quality settings :p The $4000 figure is just absurd, not sure where he got that from.
 
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