PD- Its time to turn off the Damage

[Devedander]

Eh, forza's damage is better, but not what'd I'd call great. If you hit something with your front right bumper you'll get magically scraped up all along your right side automatically.

While I agree that is' weird seeing a head on crash result in paint scraping off the back of your car, the flip side is that at least Forza damage looks like something that COULD happen in real life.

GT5 often results in cars that look like they were made of plastic and go left next to a fire.

Damage is a hard thing to do in a video game,
If you do full physical damage what happens when a car pulls out in front of you in or you clip a barrier in the 20th hour of a 24 hour race? In real life your race is probably over, in a video game that is going to be a little harsh, same with mechanical damage but you have the addition that manufacturer is going to agree to allow there cars can be used if they could break down at some point.

There is no pleasing anyone/everyone

I keep hearinng this "you can't please everyone". Have we forgotten about difficulty settings? Are settings sliders that only exist in my dreams?

No video game really has fantastic damage modeling.

Dirt, Burnout and Grid all come to mind.

I kind of want mechanical damage in A-spec, but realistically your race would be over if you sustained any real mechanical damage. Then you would have to restart the race and that would just piss everyone off. So meh...Im fine with the way it is.

Yeah except that that's not at all how it happens in online or in practice mode where damage is in effect already... and it's not like there could be a settings slider for that... and it's not like that's part of the racing experience...

Why is it that "tha'ts how it is IRL" is great when it's excusing a flaw but when when it doesn't then it get's glossed over?

Why do people complain here and direct it at PD, we are just GT enthusiasts here not game developers yet people insisit on complaining to us about the most trivial things when there are bigger issues that need fixing and who cares anyway. FFS send an email to PD with what you posted here, we are sick of whinging threads when there are already problem threads that you could post in with problems that are plainly obvious for all to see that perhaps you think we didn't notice them?? really??

Maybe people discuss it here because PD is aware of and probably reads up on this site? Maybe they talk about it because that's the nature of people? Maybe becuase that's what forums are for, this one not excluded?

Why don't people only ever write letters of complaint to politicians - no meetings, no rallies, no events to support ideas or agendas... nah those aren't necessary. Ask the people in Egyp and Libya... nothing good ever comes from getting together with other people to ensure that people know how important a negative issue is...

And you know what I am tired of? People who can't spell whining.

There is no silent g in whining and IF THERE WAS, the silent G always goes before the n.

Sign. Campaign. Reign. Gnat.

Whinging is not a word and I can't count how many times I have seen it used on here.. I am utterly confused by it... I understand mispelling difficult words like phlegm or empirical... but whining? Add an extra letter? Then put it in a completey imporper spot?

ARRRGGGHHH!!!

/Rangt

 

[ucwepn]

While I agree that is' weird seeing a head on crash result in paint scraping off the back of your car, the flip side is that at least Forza damage looks like something that COULD happen in real life.

GT5 often results in cars that look like they were made of plastic and go left next to a fire.



I keep hearinng this "you can't please everyone". Have we forgotten about difficulty settings? Are settings sliders that only exist in my dreams?



Dirt, Burnout and Grid all come to mind.



Yeah except that that's not at all how it happens in online or in practice mode where damage is in effect already... and it's not like there could be a settings slider for that... and it's not like that's part of the racing experience...

Why is it that "tha'ts how it is IRL" is great when it's excusing a flaw but when when it doesn't then it get's glossed over?



Maybe people discuss it here because PD is aware of and probably reads up on this site? Maybe they talk about it because that's the nature of people? Maybe becuase that's what forums are for, this one not excluded?

Why don't people only ever write letters of complaint to politicians - no meetings, no rallies, no events to support ideas or agendas... nah those aren't necessary. Ask the people in Egyp and Libya... nothing good ever comes from getting together with other people to ensure that people know how important a negative issue is...

And you know what I am tired of? People who can't spell whining.

There is no silent g in whining and IF THERE WAS, the silent G always goes before the n.

Sign. Campaign. Reign. Gnat.

Whinging is not a word and I can't count how many times I have seen it used on here.. I am utterly confused by it... I understand mispelling difficult words like phlegm or empirical... but whining? Add an extra letter? Then put it in a completey imporper spot?

ARRRGGGHHH!!!

/Rangt

Whinging is a proper word in Australia (win-jing is the pronounciation)

 

[Devedander]

Whinging is a proper word in Australia (win-jing is the pronounciation)

I stand corrected!

 

[Skyline_77]

I cant believe you all actually think Forza's damage is actually good??

I think all racing games have terrible damage models. Most impressive (I guess) is definitely Grid though.

 

[BigMackAttack]

I cant believe you all actually think Forza's damage is actually good??

I think all racing games have terrible damage models. Most impressive (I guess) is definitely Grid though.

All Arcade-y ness and Fanboyism aside, I thought Burnout Paradise had a really good damage model that didn't really feel too pre-set.

 

[blue devil]

GRID got damage right. That accordioned somewhat on head on impact at 180mph.

 

[Skyline_77]

All Arcade-y ness and Fanboyism aside, I thought Burnout Paradise had a really good damage model that didn't really feel too pre-set.

I enjoyed Paradise alot. Very fun game. 👍

 

[diegorborges]

And then the same guys who asked to turn it off...

...will start topics about why they turned it off.

Sorry guys...

I just had immense ammounts of fun in some great online races in GT5... I just can't give a damn duck about all that wrong stuff...

So, good luck!

 

[BigMackAttack]

...will start topics about why they turned it off.

I'm pretty sure I won't do that.

On another note, I finally got the doors off my WRC Ford! Too bad it took 18 minutes of backwards driving at Daytona...

 

[SavageEvil]

Problem with GT5 damage is that the sensitivity of it is screwed up big time. Since the last patch it has gotten easier to damage cars, but PD needs to increase the sensitivity of it, 30mph crashes should do some pretty bad things to a cars' body work. Taking it out, OP you can go somewhere with that crap, how on earth will that solve anything at all? Quit complaining about the A spec part of the game considering how much of a borefest that is, I don't play it because PD made it too stupid to enjoy. Until they increase the tenacity of the AI and actually mod the opponents cars to better race against my car; no dice.

My opinion is the OP hasn't played online with full damage on, mechanical damage is much more sensitive that visual for some strange reason but guaranteed, you won't win a race with full damage on. Bent wheels and engine damage are the absolute worst. Now as long as we keep talking about it PD should fix it. PD need the sensitivity of visual damage to correspond to the speed and mechanical damage should follow suit.

People complaining about how the impacts sound, need to stop listening to through those tiny speakers built into your TV with it's whopping 5amps of power. On my 5.1 system, crashed are just too loud and booming, since there is no breaking of glass anywhere you never hear glass shatter, PD needs to take visual damage just a couple of steps further, headlights need to break and windshields should fracture/shatter(cobweb) as well.

 

[Apperosio]

Add a new feature: If you crash hard, you'll die. When you die, your career starts over at lvl 0.

Can't wait to read the comments here after some brainless Clearasil user rams his X1 up your arse killing you, while he walks away laughing 'cause of the carbon monocoque.

 

[Destinkeys]

There's only one REAL use for damage in a GAME....

To punish those that drive badly.

The rest of it is all eye candy. And, if we want a community of drivers that keep getting better, it had better be made permanent, and expensive. Whether there's ANY visual damage or bad visual damage or no visual damage, to be honest, I hate to say this, but the better represented it is, the more people are going to do it, just to be able to stand back and admire their handiwork!

But mechanical damage is a MUST. I'd rather have as detailed a damage model as a driving physics model, TBH. I mean, what's the POINT of accurate driving physics, if you are prepared to put up with inaccurate damage effects? You just lost ANY right to call GT5 a 'sim'...

Do you think it is too harsh to put in that, if you hit the wall at 180mph, that particular race is OVER, for you? Then you aren't into racing, you aren't even into driving. You are just into playing a game. Racing involves contact... no question about it. But contact without accurate consequences just ends up as a demolition derby, every race.

Look, even with real world consequences, the game is still better than IRL, and can still be fun... OK, you got knocked out of the race... Off you go to another Lobby, and you can start another race, FAR faster than IRL, where you have to wait for the race to be over and you very expensively repair your car..!

But online MIGHT be a comparative paradise of careful, considerate (but not emasculated) racers, if, when two cars get together, in all likelihood, BOTH are out for the race. Sure, when it's not your fault, it's going to be frustrating... Just like real racing, though! But, the bottom line would be, for the guy doing the bashing, if EVERY race he enters ends at the first significant contact, one of two things will happen:

He'll either learn to drive better, or he'll go find another game!

Win/win, in my book!

I'm with the OP... take out the visual damage altogether. It sucks (and only encourages bashing if it DID work well!). But make VERY stiff mechanical damage mandatory, and race ending. You know, like a sim SHOULD... Or would you rather play an arcade game after all?

 

[freedomweasel]

And then the same guys who asked to turn it off...

...will start topics about why they turned it off.

Whoa, hold on. I just had an amazing idea. They could add another option to the pre-race menu in A-Spec. That way, if you wanted damage it would be on, and if you didn't, it'd be off.

It's just so crazy it might work.
💡

 

[maxpontiac]

While I agree that is' weird seeing a head on crash result in paint scraping off the back of your car, the flip side is that at least Forza damage looks like something that COULD happen in real life.

GT5 often results in cars that look like they were made of plastic and go left next to a fire.

If it looks like a skunk and smells like a sunk, it doesn't matter that ones stripe is wider.

 

[sam_i_am]

Add me to those who don't really care about offline damage (visual or mechanical). Yesterday, I was doing the Nurburgring in DTM with Mercedes 190, which is a bit underpowered than the AI. Managed to get in front about 1/3 way and kept about 4 sec lead. Towards the end, missed one corner and managed to barely keep the car pointing the right way and scraped along a barrier until I slowed down enough to get back on track without spinning. Won with about 2 sec.

Now with damage, I definitely would have not be able to complete the last leg and that would have taken all the fun out of that race. So, no thank you. I'd enjoy my illusion of race with indestructible cars.

Online is another issue with people bashing intentionally. I don't play online and don't want to comment on whether it is required or not.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Add a new feature: If you crash hard, you'll die. When you die, your career starts over at lvl 0.

Can't wait to read the comments here after some brainless Clearasil user rams his X1 up your arse killing you, while he walks away laughing 'cause of the carbon monocoque.

Though the realism will be insane if they implemented that, it will get annoying eventually by both parties.

Though carbon tubs are incredibly strong, even they have their limits. If the X1 hits you at top speed, don't expect the X1 driver to be alive and kicking also.

 

[cuco33]

The importance of a damage system in a racer is the effects on the car's performance after an incident, NOT the visual fluff.

PD needs to implement damage across the board or at minimum implement it in Aspec. Maybe throw in an xp/cr multiplayer for having damage on and finishing without it is all that's needed.

 

[Gaiajohan]

And since when is crashing not an integral part of racing? If it happens in darn near every racing event I don't see how its not...

It's also about staying on the track, should they remove the ability to go off track because that's not what the game is about?

You don't understand what I meant.

Of course crashing is a part of it. But it's not something you should do on purpose (because it looks so nice). I'd much rather see good physics after the crash (so a daily Camaro that barely drives anymore when they hit a wall at 30mph), than good graphics but crappy physics. And currently, GT5 has both crappy physics as crappy graphics.

There is a reason why all games with nice crash graphics (GRID, Burnout, Dirt) all have crappy arcadey physics. The computional power must be used somewhere. A PS3 nor an XBOX360 or pc have limitless amounts of power.

 

[BigMackAttack]

And currently, GT5 has both crappy physics as crappy graphics.

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope

 

[Airrider]

Why would one take out damage in a racing simulator? It's part of the immersion of the game and especially if you really, really care about your car, it's an added impetus to get better as you play so you're not pockmarking your car with all the dings and dents of impacts: visual signs of a bad or, at best, dangerously over-enthusiastic driver.

Case in point: I have an F40. I love it to death. Knowing that I have one of my first four-wheeled childhood loves in my GT5 garage as one of the most beautiful Premiums they offer gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling inside, even without the F40 being the absolute fastest thing in the game. However, this car's a dangerous SOB, and my heart skips a beat whenever I stuff it and whack it into a wall. Sure, that feels bad. But I'm determined to get right back on that (prancing) horse so I can eventually master the squirrely back end, get over the astronomic turbo power and master the car.

It's like riding a bicycle. After you take off your training wheels, someday you'll fall off your bike and it'll hurt. Does that mean you should put your training wheels back on?

However, I'm dissatisfied with the damage model as it stands. I want to see the kinds of penalties you would get from crashing and, say, a really important bit falling off, like a spoiler or a whole section of bodywork.

So far for me it's like all the cars are made of tinfoil or Plasticine and impacts just sort of deform everything. I'm pretty sure melty-mobiles are not the way car damage works in the real world.

 

[Gaiajohan]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnope

I think we must agree to disagree.

Imo the 'damaged' physics are not damn good, and the normale car physics are not more than so-so if you're used to pc sims. And well, the graphics don't outperform the games from Codemasters..

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Dirt, Burnout and Grid all come to mind.

You can't be serious. I seldom ever see broken windshield in Nascar and have even seen the whole windshield pop up in one piece when a Nascar driver hit a wall at 180 mph. I really don't like the cheesy broken windshield and disappearing act. I bet real race car driver are glad windshields are a lot tougher IRL than in video games. I also don't care paint flying off like bark when George of the Jungle smacks into a tree.

Also you can totally ignore the damage in these games as damage doesn't have much effect on driving the car. That is unless you hit a wall wide open which any descent driver can easily avoid. I can ram other cars all I want in these games.

 

[GTOne2Three]

Forza's damage was atleast satisfying. I like how the bumper fell off, or even the rear view mirrors. And dont get me started on rollovers.

For me, it's not just how realistic, but also how a crash can make you go:

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

Forza damage seems too random . Sometimes you can get by hitting a wall full force with very little damage while other times you get tapped in the back can seriously loosen up your back end. Still for the most part I often can ram the AI in FM3 just like Grid and still win the race.

There is a reason why all games with nice crash graphics (GRID, Burnout, Dirt) all have crappy arcadey physics. The computional power must be used somewhere. A PS3 nor an XBOX360 or pc have limitless amounts of power.

While that's true it also has to do with what the developers focus their time on. GT5 is more like a car show which has always ben it's selling point. Arcade games will more likely focus on crashes you see in movies. Grid is the Hollywood racing/crashing game while GT5 is like more like a car ad. Even a Jeep ad that is shown to be out of the middle of no where still looks clean as if it at the dealership.

 

[cuco33]

You can't be serious. I seldom ever see broken windshield in Nascar and have even seen the whole windshield pop up in one piece when a Nascar driver hit a wall at 180 mph. I really don't like the cheesy broken windshield and disappearing act. I bet real race car driver are glad windshields are a lot tougher IRL than in video games. I also don't care paint flying off like bark when George of the Jungle smacks into a tree.

Nascar's windows are made from Lexan, not glass like normal cars. You won't be seeing Lexan PC break like glass does.

Also you can totally ignore the damage in these games as damage doesn't have much effect on driving the car. That is unless you hit a wall wide open which any descent driver can easily avoid. I can ram other cars all I want in these games.

And here lies the problem.. Damage system's importance is the mechanical effects to a car after an incident, not the visual fluff that for some reason EVERYONE keeps talking about as the end all be all
It's not about cracked windshields nor hanging bumpers. It's not about falling mirrors nor scratched paint. I don't think PD gets it either. Damage online is pretty decent, why not carry it over to the rest of the game?? It would at least make grinding more enjoyable and could prevent rubber band drivers from glitching away. Keep it as an option, with bonus multiplier for level of damage + actual damage done to the car. I can see not wanting it in Bspec, but that's because the AI is usually a moronic driver.

Not all crashes will yield doom and despair for your race. Some will affect performance ever so slightly that it might not be worth pitting in to repair something. Damaged aero for example will yield differences in handling/top speed. Bashing a wall on the side should result in some type of steering effect swaying to one side. Ramming a car head on should start, or finish, ruining engine power/drivetrain. This is a game afterall. But if you do crash head on at 100mph and still your car puts away hurting... you won't be finishing in 1st place.

Other games do it pretty well. PD has potential to do the same but with a better visual model. Just seems PD care more about the visual side of it than the actual importance of a damage system in a sim. And the visual side of it has faults on it's own. CF doesn't bend and warp, neither does glass/thin plastic either. And last I checked, you really had to bash your car way too many times to start seeing something. Whether PD swaps out textures/models or has the entire car fully modeled with real time damage effects, it's not what's important.

FYI, play DiRT1 on the hardest difficulty setting with max damage system. You make 1 wrong move and your car's performance can be affected greatly. It could mean no podium finish or worse, DNF, just like in real life.

 

[Zoom!Zoom!]

FYI, play DiRT1 on the hardest difficulty setting with max damage system. You make 1 wrong move and your car's performance can be affected greatly. It could mean no podium finish or worse, DNF, just like in real life.

You are right. I forgot about Dirt since in Dirt 2 the damage was mostly all visual. Dirt 2 physics also seem to be lean more arcade as well. F1 2010 damage was also very forgiving so it seems that most console race games is moving away from PC sims when it comes to mechanical damage. Even the games tghat does often have the rewind feature so casual gamers can remove the damage in single player.

 

[Gaiajohan]

You are right. I forgot about Dirt since in Dirt 2 the damage was mostly all visual. Dirt 2 physics also seem to be lean more arcade as well. F1 2010 damage was also very forgiving so it seems that most console race games is moving away from PC sims when it comes to mechanical damage. Even the games tghat does often have the rewind feature so casual gamers can remove the damage in single player.

Just lookin at yer nick? Are you scca1981 at other forums?

 

[cuco33]

Personally I prefer the damage system to be there than not. I do like arcade racers as well but if given the option, I prefer a more sim based experienced.
The rewind button is there generally for the more casual minded player. If you race F1 2010 with hardest difficulty you don't get any rewinds. I could be wrong but I believe damage affects performance even more. That's how it was in DiRT1, where harder you make the game the more impact a crash has on performance. Easier settings let's more carnage happen without affecting performance as much.

If I were the devs I'd make these games a 2 way street. Give the options to dumb down the sim experience for the casual minded markets. This includes no damage system, rewind, easier/more arcadey physics model. At the same time give the core sim racer all the bells and whistles that he'd like via option. Give him the full damage system, no rewind, realistic physics, and I'd even go as far as test-n-tune laps, qualifiers, etc with tire wear, fuel consumption, etc. One day this FM x GT battle will give us that game. They are getting close, just not quite there yet. It's a win win situation for the devs too. You basically have access to the full market. FM3 actually did this pretty well, albeit not perfect. Casuals can set easy difficulty, no damage, autobrake, driving line, etc on.

 

[Daniel46]

If you are racing and you could win and someone hits you, but you are still in race and you can still win, do you really watch if your car is damaged or do you try to continue the race and win? Do you really watch the car while you are driving? if you are in a real race u dont even see the car. I really don't care about the damage, i like GT5 because i like racing and nothing else!

 

[thefasterstig]

Full realism should be an option, yes. I agree, however it should be one that you can [on] off when you wish. If I stack it into a barrier at AREYOUCRAZY?mph , I for one would like to see all hell break loose. I want fire, I want twisted metal, I want grieving widows trackside!