PD must be doing something awesome.

To me, a good update, I would just like some more options for tuning the new NSX. (Acura 'cause there are too many right hand drive cars)

I would be fine with that, but what I say is what a lot of others would say, but I am a bit tired of "DLC" cars not having the ability of being modified, kinda like the M4 and some others. (Yes, I know they are a bit on the concept side, but they will be full tilt production soon.
 
It's amazing that you can put so much faith in your Japanese stereotype for Kaz and PD, while alternately assuming Sony themselves are a bunch of short-sighted idiots who would have both stopped work on a PS4 GT game only to then overturn that decision a year later and stop support of GT6 to focus on GT7. If you're going to be racist, at least be consistently racist.
Yes, this is exactly what I believe. If you've ever dealt with SONY the megacorp, you might think the same thing. Ever had a SONY professional product maintained? Remember the CD DRM fiasco back in the mid 2000s?

I differentiate between SONY Computer Entertainment and SONY Corp too, because SCE is trying to be all SEGA and cool with the fans, as well as developers. They're being a lot more customer friendly than MS and EA. But SONY the megacorp, while not that bad, seems to be all about the yen.

So you met Kaz. Did he seem like the kind of guy who would chuck his game because the fan enthusiasm just wasn't there like before?

By the way, you're lucky I don't report you for calling me a racist, even in passing. That's pretty unmodlike and ghetto there, dude.

I don't see why saying "Sure boss, what you say may be the expedient thing to do with your focus on PS4, but I will not abandon GT6" is off the table, but it's your scenario, not mine. In your scenario, as far as I can tell Sony has basically total control of PD so it's really irrelevant what Kaz thinks or does.

What I do know is that throwing away support for GT6 is almost certainly a terrible move for the long term. If Sony can't see that, and Kaz either can't see it or can't/won't convince Sony of the need for brand loyalty, the whole thing is a loss anyway.
You keep carrying on as if Japanese business is some kind of democracy or group hug or something. Yes, I definitely DO see SONY as calling the shots. Kaz moving on to GT5 after 4, and on PS3, is just par for the course. Everyone expected that. So how do you explain the situation we find ourselves in now, with GT6 kind of falling into a black hole, and rumors of GT7 Prologue beginning to percolate from within the company? All you seem to have is "Hey, this is all wrong, everyone sucks." Or "Kaz is human, and he'd sell his mom if he had to."

I can't go into everything because a web of hypotheticals will never have an end to it, but I did want to remark about this:

there's good evidence that Kaz is intelligent and savvy, both in development and business.
Now this I'll have to get an explanation for. Not just "Gran Turismo has become the most successful racing game ever," because the business end of that was all SONY.

From everything I know of Kaz, he's a very talented, clever guy. Kind of a polymath, a renaissance man who has talents in more than one area, like coding, game design and production, and racing. More than anything, a man with an artist's or director's eye. Also a diplomat, an ambassador for all things automotive, and for his creation. A man who captivates everyone he meets with his insight and intellect, who invades the automotive and racing world like some kind of rock star. Gran Turismo came about because he had a vision and he managed to bring that to life in a way that was addictive to millions of gamers. That's what I see in him, but what I don't see in him is a shrewd businessman. And if you don't think that people are promoted to positions of prominence as awards for good work versus qualifications, just recall Ken Kutaragi, former head of SONY Computer Entertainment, who by many accounts was forced to retire from his position when the PS3 initially proved too costly for SONY. Fantastic engineer and visionary, lousy spokeshuman and businessman. Who by the way was to be presented a Lifetime Achievement Award at the GDC by Mark Cerny, the lead architect of PS4 this week.

Maybe I'm unaware of Kaz's business prowess, after all I'm not interested in Forbes or Business Week or any of that, so I could be missing an entire side of him. But you'll have to enlighten me on that.

Whatever is going on is of both Sony and Kaz's making, and to try to assign all blame to either party is to miss the point entirely.
Well, that's how I'm going to continue to see it unless you have some evidence to the contrary.
 
Now this I'll have to get an explanation for. Not just "Gran Turismo has become the most successful racing game ever," because the business end of that was all SONY.

It's barely worth explaining, because you believe that Sony runs every business aspect of PD.

But if someone didn't think that Sony ruled all business aspects of Polyphony with an iron fist, they might be inclined to give Kazunori some credit for running a development house that has endured for 15 years and been very successful in their relationship with a major console manufacturer.
 
And if you don't think that people are promoted to positions of prominence as awards for good work versus qualifications, just recall Ken Kutaragi, former head of SONY Computer Entertainment, who by many accounts was forced to retire from his position when the PS3 initially proved too costly for SONY. Fantastic engineer and visionary, lousy spokeshuman and businessman.

The Peter Principle is absolutely a thing. Don't see any reason to automatically assume it applied to Kutaragi. Though the implication you're also making by association that Kaz isn't competent enough for the responsibilities he has is one I wouldn't expect to hear from you.


It's barely worth explaining, because you believe that Sony runs every business aspect of PD.

But if someone didn't think that Sony ruled all business aspects of Polyphony with an iron fist, they might be inclined to give Kazunori some credit for running a development house that has endured for 15 years and been very successful in their relationship with a major console manufacturer.

And was somehow allowed to develop a revolutionary game for 5 years before the studio was even properly formed despite that lack of business acumen.
 
the implication you're also making by association that Kaz isn't competent enough for the responsibilities he has is one I wouldn't expect to hear from you.
Well, I really doubt that SONY is going to task Kaz with developing the expansion strategies for SONY Corp because he's the VP of SCE. Reading over my details of what I know of the man, what sticks out to you as one that suggests he would be a great corporate suit?

Would you tweet him for stock advice? ;)
 
Yes, this is exactly what I believe. If you've ever dealt with SONY the megacorp, you might think the same thing. Ever had a SONY professional product maintained? Remember the CD DRM fiasco back in the mid 2000s?

Oh, okay then, so your "the Japanese are this way" stereotype only applies to certain Japanese, if it fits your argument theory? Gotcha.

I differentiate between SONY Computer Entertainment and SONY Corp too, because SCE is trying to be all SEGA and cool with the fans, as well as developers. They're being a lot more customer friendly than MS and EA. But SONY the megacorp, while not that bad, seems to be all about the yen.

They're all all about the yen. Kaz, as the guy in charge at PD, most certainly is, too.

So you met Kaz. Did he seem like the kind of guy who would chuck his game because the fan enthusiasm just wasn't there like before?

You think I can accurately judge a person's entire character by spending a few hours with them one evening? That's almost as laughable as judging an entire country based on one person's experience...

Oh.

By the way, you're lucky I don't report you for calling me a racist, even in passing. That's pretty unmodlike and ghetto there, dude.

I didn't call you a racist, I said you were being racist. "Positive" stereotypes ("they're so studious") are just as racist as negative stereotypes.


You keep carrying on as if Japanese business is some kind of democracy or group hug or something. Yes, I definitely DO see SONY as calling the shots. Kaz moving on to GT5 after 4, and on PS3, is just par for the course. Everyone expected that. So how do you explain the situation we find ourselves in now, with GT6 kind of falling into a black hole, and rumors of GT7 Prologue beginning to percolate from within the company? All you seem to have is "Hey, this is all wrong, everyone sucks." Or "Kaz is human, and he'd sell his mom if he had to."

If Sony truly called the shots, and was able to force PD to abandon a PS4 GT game and shoehorn it onto the PS3 to become GT6 - your theory, not mine - then could you explain why they let the wait for GT5 last for so long?

Well, that's how I'm going to continue to see it unless you have some evidence to the contrary.

"I have no facts whatsoever to back up my idea, but since you don't either, mine must be right".
 
You keep carrying on as if Japanese business is some kind of democracy or group hug or something. Yes, I definitely DO see SONY as calling the shots. Kaz moving on to GT5 after 4, and on PS3, is just par for the course. Everyone expected that.
Yamauchi said that he wasn't interested in outsourcing development on Gran Turismo PSP to another developer. He considered the prospect of handing off the driving sim to someone else "unthinkable."
Linky.

'Dat iron fist.


Well, I really doubt that SONY is going to task Kaz with developing the expansion strategies for SONY Corp because he's the VP of SCE.
The vice president of a single division wouldn't be tasked with the decisions of the greater corporation, no. We certainly know that he had influence on the PS4's design; which is a hell of a lot more than the leader of, say, Team Ico would probably be able to claim.

Reading over my details of what I know of the man, what sticks out to you as one that suggests he would be a great corporate suit?
Running his development studio for 15 (or 20) years would be a good start. Getting his development studio started would be another one. The 5 years he was able to get Sony to let him work on a completely new franchise with an untested concept before Sony had any footing in the industry would be another one. The fact that he has several times in the past (one of which helpfully I liked above, so you can see it again) used his personal clout to do what he wants despite it being obvious that Sony would probably much rather he not do that (like when he personally held up GT3's release, what turned into the most successful game in the franchise, so he could add a couple cars he liked from the 2001 Detroit Auto Show) would probably be the best example, though.
 
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I've always seen the gt games akin to the way Microsoft treats windows. 95,xp,7 were all game changers, but stuff like 98/me/vista/8 are completely off par. They are platforms for nerds to get as technical as they can with cars on a console. May not be the prettiest or user friendly, but its has a legacy of because it tries the best to accurately simulate the conditions and cars. They drop the ball often, but damn if driving isn't so emersive. I wish they address 6. Maybe they are tryig to push hard before online is closed. Then move on. I had fun with 6, but was waiting for a patch or two.
 
I've always seen the gt games akin to the way Microsoft treats windows. 95,xp,7 were all game changers, but stuff like 98/me/vista/8 are completely off par. They are platforms for nerds to get as technical as they can with cars on a console. May not be the prettiest or user friendly, but its has a legacy of because it tries the best to accurately simulate the conditions and cars. They drop the ball often, but damn if driving isn't so emersive. I wish they address 6. Maybe they are tryig to push hard before online is closed. Then move on. I had fun with 6, but was waiting for a patch or two.
But PD made two Vistas...... Or is six just service pack 1?
 
That's nonsense. At least 6 people liked it.
:lol: How does 6 likes indicate understanding or imply something made sense? I've seen plenty of people make total sense and receive no likes at all.... does that indicate that actually they didn't make sense?

Don't trouble yourself to provide a smart response to this; I've checked and there isn't one. 👍
 
:lol: How does 6 likes indicate understanding or imply something made sense? I've seen plenty of people make total sense and receive no likes at all.... does that indicate that actually they didn't make sense?

Don't trouble yourself to provide a smart response to this; I've checked and there isn't one. 👍
I'm pretty sure it was sarcasm, bordering on satire.
 
Now, imagine my confusion... :confused:

Homer-Simpson-Zoned-Out.gif
 
Did you genuinely think I didn't recognise that? :(
Honestly, yes. I didn't expect your repeating the same point to be indicative of your recognition of that point having already been made!

The joke, as ever, is extending the analogy ever so slightly, and thus exposing its absurdity (not just the idea of PD "putting out", but the popular expectation of "putting out" being a natural "reward" offered in return for ... something *shudder*). I know that it was only a joke in the first place, of course.

See, now the fun's gone. :(
 
Linky.

'Dat iron fist.
I think you've completely forgotten the numerous interviews in which Kaz stated he intended to make GT5 before he moved on to GT PSP. And the threads of complaining here about how it could well delay GT5 considerably when GT PSP was announced.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/17/kazunori-yamauchi-more-prologue-no-gt5-soon-gt-psp-still-comi/

With all of the work his company is putting into the next console GT installment, Yamauchi tells us that it hasn't forgotten the long-delayed Gran Turismo 4 Mobile for PSP. He confirms that the game – originally announced at E3 2004 – is still actively in development, although it isn't planned for release until after GT5. That would be 2011 for those with pen and calendar in hand.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/177835/gran-turismo-psp-2009-at-the-earliest/

Series creator Kazunori Yamauchi has explained that, while he's very much working on Gran Turismo Portable, it won't be out till after Gran Turismo 5 releases.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/179538/gt-mobile-pushed-aside-for-gt5/

When speaking to a Sony UK correspondent today, we were told: "Polyphony is currently focusing all its resources on developing GT5 for PS3." While this does not confirm that GT Mobile has been scrapped, it certainly insinuates that GT Mobile has been put on the backburner while the obviously crucial PS3 game takes the lead.

By the way, your list of Kazunori assets doesn't sound like corporate material to me, but then maybe you're a human resources guy. It sounds to me more like an artistic renegade I'd want in charge of a studio, which amazingly is where he got real quick. Selling projuects to a company =/= managing a company. Also, I found your critique of my car post completely unvaluable. And most of your posts end up wasting a lot of time, so don't count on me looking at them or Slip's much more.
 
I think you've completely forgotten the numerous interviews in which Kaz stated he intended to make GT5 before he moved on to GT PSP.
I think you missed the entire point of linking that interview. Hardly the first time.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/07/17/kazunori-yamauchi-more-prologue-no-gt5-soon-gt-psp-still-comi/

With all of the work his company is putting into the next console GT installment, Yamauchi tells us that it hasn't forgotten the long-delayed Gran Turismo 4 Mobile for PSP. He confirms that the game – originally announced at E3 2004 – is still actively in development, although it isn't planned for release until after GT5. That would be 2011 for those with pen and calendar in hand.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/177835/gran-turismo-psp-2009-at-the-earliest/

Series creator Kazunori Yamauchi has explained that, while he's very much working on Gran Turismo Portable, it won't be out till after Gran Turismo 5 releases.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/179538/gt-mobile-pushed-aside-for-gt5/

When speaking to a Sony UK correspondent today, we were told: "Polyphony is currently focusing all its resources on developing GT5 for PS3." While this does not confirm that GT Mobile has been scrapped, it certainly insinuates that GT Mobile has been put on the backburner while the obviously crucial PS3 game takes the lead.
Why, those are certainly some links.

By the way, your list of Kazunori assets doesn't sound like corporate material to me, but then maybe you're a human resources guy. It sounds to me more like an artistic renegade I'd want in charge of a studio, which amazingly is where he got real quick. Selling projuects to a company =/= managing a company.
And yet he's managed to do both to this point, to the extent of being viciously defended any time people make calls for his removal because his perceived inability to... er... manage. By yourself, no less. I could be imagining point you made about how excellent Kaz's management skills had to be because he's never had to fire anybody he's hired; before that too inevitably spun off into claims about how all Japanese people act some specific way. You said it in the same post where you said "bluffing your way into a high profile job is extremely rare in Japan;" though apparently Peter Principle runs rampant at Sony now that it suits you to say so.

Also, I found your critique of my car post completely unvaluable.
I assume you're referring to this post here, where you listed a bunch of cars that you claimed fell under the tent of "affordable 90's sports cars" despite most of them not being affordable (and some of them not even being from the 1990s). I can further assume based on your bringing it up as a snide aside in this thread rather than attempting to debate the accuracy of your claim in that thread (despite you directly calling for someone to do so, and me even stating the examples of your point that were accurate and spotting you some you neglected) that you have finally lost all ability to do anything but hope people can make your arguments for you and latch onto them, because otherwise you don't even bother going through the motions of defending what you're saying.

I furthermore suspect that if you did in fact have the ability to do so, you wouldn't devolve to such uninformed hypocrisy every time you attempt to argue a point and it didn't work out (for example, claiming cars like the 3000GT and Supra were "pickings in the range we mortals can expect to afford" despite spending a good portion of the 1990s being about 25% more expensive than the car you used as a baseline for what wasn't considered affordable; then ignoring all responses to instead blame the people who dared prove you wrong).

And most of your posts end up wasting a lot of time, so don't count on me looking at them or Slip's much more.
Oh please, don't tease me like this again. One of these days I'll hope you'll actually follow through with it like you've threatened many times in the past so we can cut out the amount of time required between "Tenacious D says something foolish" and "Tenacious D publicly announces he's leaving a thread after if becomes clear just how foolish what he said was." I for sure know I wasted a lot of time, as an example, trying to explain to you how a RWD tube-framed Mazda RX-8 with a Mazda6-shaped carbon fiber body on top wasn't actually a Mazda6; and if that didn't take I don't understand how "a car that cost $45,000 when new 20 years ago isn't cheaper than a car that costs less than $35,000 new today" ever would have.
 
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