PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[Groundfish]

How soon we forget what it was like pre pen zone implementation.
The hit and run was standard procedure.
Pen zones made a big difference. I just think their placement sucks like come on look at Interlagos you kidding me?
Worst possible place.
The only way I’d be down with eliminating pen zones is upping the minimum contact penalty to 6-8 seconds otherwise it’s hit and run time, heck EVEN then it’ll be back to hit and runs.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

How soon we forget what it was like pre pen zone implementation.
The hit and run was standard procedure.
Pen zones made a big difference. I just think their placement sucks like come on look at Interlagos you kidding me?
Worst possible place.
The only way I’d be down with eliminating pen zones is upping the minimum contact penalty to 6-8 seconds otherwise it’s hit and run time, heck EVEN then it’ll be back to hit and runs.

That was when you could brake before the finish line to scrub penalties at a much faster rate than the penalty was worth. That has always been stupid and also created more incidents, at the finish and during the race from people scrubbing penalties bits at a time whole holding up traffic behind them.

Eliminating them doesn't mean bringing penalty scrubbing back. Mandatory pit if you accumulate 5 sec or more or carry to the finish. Together with DQ for 5 major contacts, dwindling down to 3 on repeat occurrences.

And sure, the contact penalties are far too low atm. Other car crashes / goes off should be 5 sec minimum and thus mandatory pit stop and go. Yet you can let the "ignoring track limit" penalties accumulate as well as 1 sec penalties for front back contact without consequences. 3 sec if it leads to a position change, overtake twice with contact and mandatory stop and go. Bump the car ahead 5 times, mandatory stop and go.

The pit is there, use it.

 

[djidane57]

multiple penalty zones within the same track should at least be equivalent for the actual time loss , i mean look at la sarthe no chicane , one penalty zone in that huge straight where everybody hits max speed and the other one in a braking zone just before the final chicane

 

[Jagman XK8]

Hi folks, not been around for a while and glad to see this thread is still very active.

I've been down to DR/D and back again to DR/B, but keeping that is challenging to say the least. I said this wouldn't bother me, but it still does and unfortunately the idiots are still out there ruining my racing experience.

I've had some very good consecutive placings to claw my way back, but then SR is smashed by another car ramming me into another, so green SR's all the way round are completely ruined by one orange SR at the hands of some hot headed twit, who doesn't give a monkeys about etiquette.

I think this must be the same for many drivers. I say this because people who are qualifying much faster the me and who go on to win the race are DR/C, or D, so I say again that the DR rating, in many cases, doesn't reflect the drivers ability.

I would love to know the answer to all this!

Stay safe and carry on!!

 

[RacingGrandpa]

Hi folks, not been around for a while and glad to see this thread is still very active.

I've been down to DR/D and back again to DR/B, but keeping that is challenging to say the least. I said this wouldn't bother me, but it still does and unfortunately the idiots are still out there ruining my racing experience.

I've had some very good consecutive placings to claw my way back, but then SR is smashed by another car ramming me into another, so green SR's all the way round are completely ruined by one orange SR at the hands of some hot headed twit, who doesn't give a monkeys about etiquette.

I think this must be the same for many drivers. I say this because people who are qualifying much faster the me and who go on to win the race are DR/C, or D, so I say again that the DR rating, in many cases, doesn't reflect the drivers ability.

I would love to know the answer to all this!

Stay safe and carry on!!

Good to see you again. Spotted you in the free practice on my friends list!

 

[Groundfish]

I would love to know the answer to all this

For me D was no prob, C was a bit challenging but the transition from C to B I found extremely difficult. At one point I felt B was simply beyond my talent level...
B is a tough nut to crack...
What helped me was studying real racing instructionals like Ross Bentley or Skip Barber...
That said I dunno any substitute for determination and patience. When you are matched into situations where others are faster or at least as fast sometimes holding position is very satisfying.
Jmo but I’ve never gone for wins, I spend time in qualifying to get as fast as I can on track alone then race —-when the mood is right—-
B is very tough coming from c...
The longer you race the more you see things like a farmer looking at weather; it doesn’t have to be great just don’t let it be terrible.

 

[KosmoKazi]

First I get a 2 sec penalty for getting run down on in the apex, then I get a total 6 sec penalty for being absolutely violated as the PIGS behind me run me over, because I was trying NOT to make contact with the slowed people in front of me.

THE PENALTY SYSTEM SUCKS WORSE THAN EVER.

RUINED MY RACE. COST ME 500 DR. COST ME FIA POINTS. The actual offenders GET CRB.

 

[djidane57]

First I get a 2 sec penalty for getting run down on in the apex, then I get a total 6 sec penalty for being absolutely violated as the PIGS behind me run me over, because I was trying NOT to make contact with the slowed people in front of me.

THE PENALTY SYSTEM SUCKS WORSE THAN EVER.

RUINED MY RACE. COST ME 500 DR. COST ME FIA POINTS. The actual offenders GET CRB.

i guess you had a higher DR rank?

 

[watto79]

First I get a 2 sec penalty for getting run down on in the apex, then I get a total 6 sec penalty for being absolutely violated as the PIGS behind me run me over, because I was trying NOT to make contact with the slowed people in front of me.

THE PENALTY SYSTEM SUCKS WORSE THAN EVER.

RUINED MY RACE. COST ME 500 DR. COST ME FIA POINTS. The actual offenders GET CRB.

I'm sorry to be that guy, but it looks to me that you keep moving over to the left when there are two cars there. The middle car gets squeezed and the resulting contact with you makes you lose control, and then all hell breaks loose.

The initial penalty was of course no fault of yours at all but it seems after that if you'd held the inside line you could have got around the corner fine.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm certainly not accusing you of anything, and if I were to make a guess it would be that you didn't realise there were two rather than one car to your left?

 

[KosmoKazi]

I'm sorry to be that guy, but it looks to me that you keep moving over to the left when there are two cars there. The middle car gets squeezed and the resulting contact with you makes you lose control, and then all hell breaks loose.

The initial penalty was of course no fault of yours at all but it seems after that if you'd held the inside line you could have got around the corner fine.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm certainly not accusing you of anything, and if I were to make a guess it would be that you didn't realise there were two rather than one car to your left?

You said it: you're 'that guy'.

I left 2.0 cars' worth of room on the left.

Both the Mustang and the Toyota should have either recognized the one car behind them or that it was not going to work 3-wide into that chicane.

Nonsense, your reply. Both cars would have been penalized in real life, for causing an accident.


Their behavior leading into the prior turn, running over, and into, cars that were already two-wide at the start of a race in a treacherous turn anyway on still-warming tires, when cars were off at that turn, says all that you need to know about whether they were abiding by any code or accepted rules.

Both of them caused contact from behind (supposedly zero tolerance in the new penalty system, yet no penalties) before the thing totally exploded.

I moved left a little because the track moves left a little. I should not have to account for two car widths to my side, that's totally unreasonable.

And the penalty system that caused it all to be even worse than it was.

i guess you had a higher DR rank?

uh, what?

 

[RacingGrandpa]

uh, what

When a collision happens between a driver with a high DR and another with low DR the high DR-driver is almost always penalized while the low DR is not. Apparently we are supposed to know better...

 

[Soundmangt4]

It's strange how it works. Had a race last night and there was a bit of rubbing but nothing much, and then I tapped someone so gently it was barely noticeable, no penalty and yet I get an SR down! I gained SR back through the rest of the race and had a clean race after that so back to SR 99 but I don't understand how it determines what is a penalty and what is an SR down.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

It's strange how it works. Had a race last night and there was a bit of rubbing but nothing much, and then I tapped someone so gently it was barely noticeable, no penalty and yet I get an SR down! I gained SR back through the rest of the race and had a clean race after that so back to SR 99 but I don't understand how it determines what is a penalty and what is an SR down.

A penalty triggers when impact is forceful, positions change or a car leaves the road. SR Down currently triggers for any front to back contact and it depends on DR which driver gets it (as well as for time penalties).

Forceful front back contact triggers a penalty to the car in front on straights, yet to the car behind in corners. (Unless DR makes the call)

Usually no penalties or SR Downs are issued for side contact, you can push people out no problem. Couple posts up @KosmoKazi got tapped from behind before a car part of everyone connecting went off, thus he gets the penalty.

In the second incident he was victim of front to back contact again, maybe a DR call since everyone went off. However @KosmoKazi with radar on you should have been able to tell there were 2 cars there and seen it was safer to stick to the right and take the inside line at the next corner. While it was wrong for the green car to keep his nose in there, it is something you got to expect in GT Sport.

 

[watto79]

You said it: you're 'that guy'.

I left 1.5 cars worth of room on the left.

Both the Mustang and the Toyota should have either recognized the one car behind them or that it was not going to work 3-wide into that chicane.

Nonsense, your reply. Both cars would have been penalized in real life, for causing an accident.

You're right, I did not know there were two behind, but as both of them each tried to squeeze into 1.5 cars' worth of space, I should not have expected there were two. I did not know there were two, but I knew there was only room for 1, so why should I expect another car to try to wedge in? Nonsense.

Their behavior leading into the prior turn, running over, and into, cars that were already two-wide at the start of a race in a treacherous turn anyway on still-warming tires, when cars were off at that turn, says all that you need to know about whether they were abiding by any code or accepted rules.

Both of them caused contact from behind (supposedly zero tolerance in the new penalty system, yet no penalties) before the thing totally exploded.

I moved left a little because the track moves left a little. I should not have to account for two car widths to my side, that's totally unreasonable.

And the penalty system that caused it all to be even worse than it was.



uh, what?

Look I'm trying to help. I don't think what I said is "nonsense" although you're welcome to disagree with it. At the point below there's plenty of room for the two cars coming along your left hand side. With your radar on you would have seen that and hopefully have left enough space for 2, rather than 1.5 cars.

As you didn't and none of the 3 cars backed out of it the result was a complete pile up.

Honestly I am this self critical of my own driving. Any incident I'm involved in I look at what happened from everyone's point of view and see if I could have acted any differently. Sometimes "being in the right" can still result in a crash. Becoming more aware of what others might, or are likely to do, has resulted for me in less incidents, better race finishes, higher DR and more FIA points.

If you're happy that the incident was unavoidable from your actions and entirely on the other two cars then that's fine too. It makes no difference to me. I'm just trying to help. I can see from your stats that you are in no way a dirty driver and GTSport could certainly use more drivers like you, but I do also believe there is something to learn from in any given incident.

Good luck on the track

 

[Soundmangt4]

Look I'm trying to help. I don't think what I said is "nonsense" although you're welcome to disagree with it. At the point below there's plenty of room for the two cars coming along your left hand side. With your radar on you would have seen that and hopefully have left enough space for 2, rather than 1.5 cars.

View attachment 945074

As you didn't and none of the 3 cars backed out of it the result was a complete pile up.

Honestly I am this self critical of my own driving. Any incident I'm involved in I look at what happened from everyone's point of view and see if I could have acted any differently. Sometimes "being in the right" can still result in a crash. Becoming more aware of what others might, or are likely to do, has resulted for me in less incidents, better race finishes, higher DR and more FIA points.

If you're happy that the incident was unavoidable from your actions and entirely on the other two cars then that's fine too. It makes no difference to me. I'm just trying to help. I can see from your stats that you are in no way a dirty driver and GTSport could certainly use more drivers like you, but I do also believe there is something to learn from in any given incident.

Good luck on the track

I have to agree with you. Easily avoided using the radar and leaving more space, especially as he had the inside line to the next corner.

 

[Ashthebash]

You're right, I did not know there were two behind,

That.

I saw the video of this on your FIA post and my first thought was you didn't realise there were two cars there, and effectively PIT manoeuvred yourself. This particular incident is a racing incident in my opinion. The one before it into the corner was a naughty dive bomb by someone and you were in no way at fault or deserving of a penalty, but this, just a lack of awareness - by all parties. Though I also would say it wasn't penalty worthy

It happens in real life too. In your situation you're Vettel, squeezing Verstappen a little but have no idea that Raikkonen is flying up the inside giving Verstappen nowhere to go



My question to you would be, if you knew there were two cars there would you have stayed further to the right?

 

[KosmoKazi]

Guys... I REALLY love the blame the victim discussion here, on a thread where the examples of the penalty system being screwed up are shared... (1 because it unfairly penalizes people, 2 because it results in certain driving behaviors that impact the game for better or worse).

Point A: There actually was room for two cars to my left (picture was just after first contact, which was to my rear quarter and turned me INTO their lane, it wasn't like I chose to further squeeze the area.

(again... AFTER the Toyota already hit my rear quarter, turning me even further in to my left...) (and be clear... the Mustang is forcing the issue on the Supra and the Supra was forcing the issue on me, all set up by some unsporting behavior causing carnage at the prior turn)

Point B: I use bumper cam with a mirror + radar. It wasn't even a matter of awareness. I love all the presumptions that 'if I used my radar' etc... The TRAILING CAR HAS 100% RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH THE CAR AHEAD. So long as any move I made before wasn't egregious, THEY ARE AT FAULT ENTIRELY. There was room for two cars on the left (both of which were trying to overtake me, which is there responsibility to manage, not mine to facilitate.)



Yes, I agree, I could have just conceded the spot(s), and in hindsight, as I said... might make the decision today (especially as I was planning just these first two laps on the H's). But... having just witnessed the carnage caused by these same IDIOTS dive-bombing and bullying through the prior turn FULLY EXPECTED that If I stayed inside, would get either turned in on or punted in the hardest turn on the track ahead. I did kind of expect that they wouldn't turn me on a straight as opposed that option.

So... yeah... wrong decision in 20/20 hindsight, with replays, and 3rd person cam, etc. and all the excellent advice on offer here.

Totally agree, if I just decide to take the inside line, and compromise my next turn, likely to either concede a spot, get doored on the apex, or rear-ended into the same gravel trap, this doesn't happen and I go on to the result that I would have earned otherwise.

BUT why not expect that drivers respect the rules instead, and that the penalty system tries to make sure that is the norm?

Look I'm trying to help. I don't think what I said is "nonsense" although you're welcome to disagree with it. At the point below there's plenty of room for the two cars coming along your left hand side. With your radar on you would have seen that and hopefully have left enough space for 2, rather than 1.5 cars.

View attachment 945074

As you didn't and none of the 3 cars backed out of it the result was a complete pile up.

Honestly I am this self critical of my own driving. Any incident I'm involved in I look at what happened from everyone's point of view and see if I could have acted any differently. Sometimes "being in the right" can still result in a crash. Becoming more aware of what others might, or are likely to do, has resulted for me in less incidents, better race finishes, higher DR and more FIA points.

If you're happy that the incident was unavoidable from your actions and entirely on the other two cars then that's fine too. It makes no difference to me. I'm just trying to help. I can see from your stats that you are in no way a dirty driver and GTSport could certainly use more drivers like you, but I do also believe there is something to learn from in any given incident.

Good luck on the track

Agreed, I do the same... have to analyze what happens and certainly lesson learned. Doesn't A) make the penalty system any more effective and B) mean that the drivers who cause the carnage in the turn before, and the consequential carnage in my case any less responsible for it.

I have to agree with you. Easily avoided using the radar and leaving more space, especially as he had the inside line to the next corner.

Inside corner on warming H tires defending against drivers that didn't respect the cars on the apex in the prior corner and caused a pileup already, as a result.

That.

I saw the video of this on your FIA post and my first thought was you didn't realise there were two cars there, and effectively PIT manoeuvred yourself. This particular incident is a racing incident in my opinion. The one before it into the corner was a naughty dive bomb by someone and you were in no way at fault or deserving of a penalty, but this, just a lack of awareness - by all parties. Though I also would say it wasn't penalty worthy

It happens in real life too. In your situation you're Vettel, squeezing Verstappen a little but have no idea that Raikkonen is flying up the inside giving Verstappen nowhere to go



My question to you would be, if you knew there were two cars there would you have stayed further to the right?

No, because they had room. I don't expect to be turned on a straight, that's all.

If I knew they were such dirtbags that this would happen, then sure, I'd give them 2x the room a good driver would need.

Example is a little different for a number of reasons. Both of the cars in the that were responsible for contact had full view of the car they were not supposed to not in the case of the RBR race last night.

Anyway, that will be all that I have to say on it... didn't expect to have to defend against 'that guy' but I appreciate all the advice. It's not all wrong.

 

[Groundfish]

I'm sorry to be that guy, but it looks to me that you keep moving over to the left when there are two cars there. The middle car gets squeezed and the resulting contact with you makes you lose control, and then all hell breaks loose.

The initial penalty was of course no fault of yours at all but it seems after that if you'd held the inside line you could have got around the corner fine.

Maybe I'm missing something. I'm certainly not accusing you of anything, and if I were to make a guess it would be that you didn't realise there were two rather than one car to your left?

I watched this last night and tbh repeated it several times just cracking up.
It might not be the best time to try initiating an overtake side by side with the field bunched up.
The initial move to the inside was mistake number one, that led to a collision, that compromised line in heavy traffic was unwise because it’s a choice that you will give the whole field the run.
The next mistake was not staying in a line running 3 wide.
Tbh I don’t see that as being a victim of others, more just a little hyper aggressive decision making.
Tbh this is why many players run into trouble, discretion is the better part of valor.
The racing line is the safest place to be in a bunched field.
It’s an aggressive challenge inside on that right handed but holy hell he bunched the whole pack right onto himself there.
You can’t expect to compromise the entire packs speed then have everything come out cleanly, especially when you’re ending up PIT maneuvering yourself when you don’t respect the track position you gave the opponents on your left.
This is why people get nervous when lower driver levels are behind them.
The solution here was stay on the racing line and only overtake when the fella ahead makes the mistake, of you run a compromised line trying to overtake you just put the pack onto yourself.

 

[watto79]

BUT why not expect that drivers respect the rules instead, and that the penalty system tries to make sure that is the norm?

Your video is evidence of why not

It's not right, but that's kinda my point. Give drivers you don't know more space than they need. When it's drivers you already know to be reckless, give them WAY more space than they need. The reckless drivers will take care of their own race with an off track excursion at some point. You'll be temporarily held up for a moment but will benefit in the long run.

Guys... I REALLY love the blame the victim discussion here

Again, I'm not blaming you for anything. You're a clean driver. I'm just trying to help.

This.

Tbh this is why many players run into trouble, discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[Soundmangt4]

Guys... I REALLY love the blame the victim discussion here, on a thread where the examples of the penalty system being screwed up are shared... (1 because it unfairly penalizes people, 2 because it results in certain driving behaviors that impact the game for better or worse).

Point A: There actually was room for two cars to my left (picture was just after first contact, which was to my rear quarter and turned me INTO their lane, it wasn't like I chose to further squeeze the area.

(again... AFTER the Toyota already hit my rear quarter, turning me even further in to my left...) (and be clear... the Mustang is forcing the issue on the Supra and the Supra was forcing the issue on me, all set up by some unsporting behavior causing carnage at the prior turn)

Point B: I use bumper cam with a mirror + radar. It wasn't even a matter of awareness. I love all the presumptions that 'if I used my radar' etc... The TRAILING CAR HAS 100% RESPONSIBILITY TO AVOID CONTACT WITH THE CAR AHEAD. So long as any move I made before wasn't egregious, THEY ARE AT FAULT ENTIRELY. There was room for two cars on the left (both of which were trying to overtake me, which is there responsibility to manage, not mine to facilitate.)



Yes, I agree, I could have just conceded the spot(s), and in hindsight, as I said... might make the decision today (especially as I was planning just these first two laps on the H's). But... having just witnessed the carnage caused by these same IDIOTS dive-bombing and bullying through the prior turn FULLY EXPECTED that If I stayed inside, would get either turned in on or punted in the hardest turn on the track ahead. I did kind of expect that they wouldn't turn me on a straight as opposed that option.

So... yeah... wrong decision in 20/20 hindsight, with replays, and 3rd person cam, etc. and all the excellent advice on offer here.

Totally agree, if I just decide to take the inside line, and compromise my next turn, likely to either concede a spot, get doored on the apex, or rear-ended into the same gravel trap, this doesn't happen and I go on to the result that I would have earned otherwise.

BUT why not expect that drivers respect the rules instead, and that the penalty system tries to make sure that is the norm?



Agreed, I do the same... have to analyze what happens and certainly lesson learned. Doesn't A) make the penalty system any more effective and B) mean that the drivers who cause the carnage in the turn before, and the consequential carnage in my case any less responsible for it.



Inside corner on warming H tires defending against drivers that didn't respect the cars on the apex in the prior corner and caused a pileup already, as a result.



No, because they had room. I don't expect to be turned on a straight, that's all.

If I knew they were such dirtbags that this would happen, then sure, I'd give them 2x the room a good driver would need.

Example is a little different for a number of reasons. Both of the cars in the that were responsible for contact had full view of the car they were not supposed to not in the case of the RBR race last night.

Anyway, that will be all that I have to say on it... didn't expect to have to defend against 'that guy' but I appreciate all the advice. It's not all wrong.

That picture says it all. The Mustang can't move to his left as he'll run off the circuit and can't move to his right as the Toyota is there.

The Toyota can't move to his left because the Mustang is there. He can't move to his left because you are there.

You have acres of space to your right and 2 cars to your left, and you chose to squeeze them instead of leaving them room, resulting in the contact and the accident!

End of story.

As has been pointed out, no one is saying you're a dirty driver, far from it, but that accident could have been avoided by just pulling over slightly.
The penalty you got prior to that is 100% not your fault though, and shows the penalty system is flawed.

 

[KosmoKazi]

That picture says it all. The Mustang can't move to his left as he'll run off the circuit and can't move to his right as the Toyota is there.

The Toyota can't move to his left because the Mustang is there. He can't move to his left because you are there.

You have acres of space to your right and 2 cars to your left, and you chose to squeeze them instead of leaving them room, resulting in the contact and the accident!

End of story.

As has been pointed out, no one is saying you're a dirty driver, far from it, but that accident could have been avoided by just pulling over slightly.
The penalty you got prior to that is 100% not your fault though, and shows the penalty system is flawed.

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

 

[Fennario]

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

You can't change other people, just the way you predict and/or react to their actions. The binary choices are (a) the result you got, or (b) changing your behavior to achieve a different result. I don't like it either, but I agree with Groundfish - stepping into the inside line on Turn 2 opened up a gap in the chain for those 2 to exploit resulting in the incidents on the way to Turn 3. Staying in line would have avoided the incident by not creating the situation that led to it - sucks, but this is the next level of racing strategy you need to work on. Issue is not who's right/wrong, but how to adjust your game to achieve the goals you are looking for.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

It's the smart thing to do, like not stepping out into a cross walk when a car won't stop for you even though they 100% have to. You can't trust people online to race by the rules. You either drive to survive or risk stuff like that happening. It sucks, hence we're here in this thread.

 

[Ashthebash]

Tbh I don’t see that as being a victim of others, more just a little hyper aggressive decision making.

Exactly. An avoidable incident, but no driver was willing to give an inch, so the accident happened.

We've all been there when you get hit and compromised down the next straight with the guy who hit you looking to take advantage, natural reaction is to think "no 🤬 way pal"! To me this is one of those, it just ended badly - mainly due to there being a third car in the mix

Plus, after seeing the differences in how mine and @sturk0167 consoles interpreted a collision the other night, racing THAT close is always going to be running a risk of crashing

 

[Groundfish]

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

I just want to say I think all of us on this thread have each other’s backs and are trying to offer help to others.
If someone has a run you can’t swerve block them but you can put them where you want them to attempt to overtake you by making a clear assertive defensive movement to one side.
I’m not a believer in a ‘trick them’ defensive late movements or feignts, just do it blatantly by your driving ie YOU WILL PASS THERE ON THAT SIDE.
If you are ahead you still have that control over the situation.
You are a clean driver, no one here questions that. I think that it can be hard to look objectively at a personal racing incident sometimes and observers outside can offer constructive criticism.
I know for myself I’m not perfect there’s no nail holes in my palms, but I have learned a lot from my hours in this game.
Actually that’s a scene I’ve seen in races online so many times, it’s not dirty intent that leads to it it’s aggressive optimism and overconfidence. Nothing wrong with being aggressive it’s just sometimes you have to think about what kind of results initiating an aggressive overtake can lead to that’s all.
I see so many peoples videos like look at this bs pen and to a large majority I’d respond the same like wth were you doing putting your car there, not lifting, not accepting your opponents overtake etc.
Being overtaken is part of racing, imo a good thing to do is get it over with ASAP and turn the tables and apply the pressure.
@KosmoKazi you’re a cool dude I don’t think anyone here has done anything except try to help. You are one of the good ones.
We all make mistakes and can learn from it to do better going forward.

Another unrelated point which this brings to my mind is this, I’ve sometimes entered races where I have a good qual but did not warm up and I’m off pace suffering heavy pressure.
In this situation I do my damndest the first lap or so to maintain racing line even if I’m losing a lead pack until there’s enough separation then when I see where an attack is coming I don’t resist, I just try to let them go in the fastest way possible and immediately back to the racing line to try to get sorted.
This can be very harrowing mentally under heavy pressure with lap one field bunched up...
The big takeaway is when being overtaken too,
you try to minimize risk...

 

[Fennario]

On further reflection and re-viewing of your bumper cam video: I think you set the whole thing off. You did not establish position for Turn 2 which gave the #17 car the right to the apex. You bumped him, he bumped back, and the whole thing went to...

"At corner entry, if the overtaking car does not have its front axle past the leading car’s cockpit (A pillar on production cars, driver on formula cars and sports racers for easy visual reference), the overtaking car should adjust its speed to tuck in behind the leading car with minimal interruption to the leading car’s line."

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

If I was in that situation I would pull further to the right, you still have the inside into the next right hander and if anything happens when you get there the cars on the outside will be ending up in the gravel not you. It's as much about self-preservation as penalties/driving etiquette. There was room for 3 cars there but with no space between them, that's a lot trust to be putting in others in a low ranked lobby.

It is the cars behind responsibility to avoid contact but it is also the leaders responsibility to not crowd other cars off the road.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I can fully understand @KosmoKazi as I have been in a very similar situation before and felt that the other driver where totally to blain.
Them my friends took a look at my video and called it a racing incident!
Well. Once I had calmed down and looked at the replay from the other guys perspective I still thought he took a questionable decision but I also realized I could easily had made the same decision on a different day.
It turned out to really be a racing incident.
I tried to change the way I drive after that and it works better for me, less incidents and a lot less dirty driving around me.
Sometimes I am having a bad day and it goes out the window and I am back to my more aggressive driving. And almost every time it ends in tears.
My soul is a lot more comfortable with driving in a way that prevents a lot of that.

 

[Soundmangt4]

Right. From now on if someone behind has a run on me (deserved run or not, what’s the point?) I’ll simply slide aside and let them thru. I can finish last instead of being hit by pigs that don’t respect the rules. Avoiding an accident that would be the responsibility of the guy behind me. I’ll agree to disagree with your view on this.

Yes, as if you had left them room, you still had the inside line at the next corner. Let's say they both managed to get past you, you've lost 2 places and have the rest of the race to recover those places. Simply squeezing them and causing an accident lost you all the places, and totally ruined your race.
For me, SR is everything and I have had an SR of 99 almost the entire time I've been racing, and I also have a A DR rating (37K or so), so racing clean and just conceding places doesn't mean you drop DR points all the time, but it does guarantee you cleaner lobbies. Most of my places that I've gained in races is just through consistency and waiting for others to make mistakes!

 

[Groundfish]

On further reflection and re-viewing of your bumper cam video: I think you set the whole thing off. You did not establish position for Turn 2 which gave the #17 car the right to the apex. You bumped him, he bumped back, and the whole thing went to...

"At corner entry, if the overtaking car does not have its front axle past the leading car’s cockpit (A pillar on production cars, driver on formula cars and sports racers for easy visual reference), the overtaking car should adjust its speed to tuck in behind the leading car with minimal interruption to the leading car’s line."

This is the thing imo to race best people need to understand CLEAR corner rights.
Every series has slightly different takes but the concept in general for CLEAR VALID RIGHT to an apex is pretty clear, and that means established far before turn in!
If I’m iffy personally I stay back. The bumper cam clip showed a late dive to a collision.
That’s got nothing to do with the drivers ahead that’s just hyper aggressive.
Deserved penalty imo.