PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. KosmoKazi

    KosmoKazi

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    640
    One thing that I think is wrong with the overall system now, is that it's easier to increase your DR by maintaining a lower average SR...

    When I see some drivers who have 35-40k DR, or more, whose SR looks like a cardiograph trace, it says to me that it pays to ride that sweet spot between getting reset and an A DR. You can mop up in easier lobbies, starting from the front more often, and increase your DR easier than if you maintain a 99SR...

    You can see the potential when you have to run a few Daily Races in A SR or low S SR lobbies... it's so much easier to pick up 400 points in a 10-min daily race, or 1000 points an hour, if you keep your SR around 80-90 instead of perfectly clean.

    When you see 60 K' speed score drivers at 40k DR, I think this is often the case. I know K' scores are not the end-all... but fact remains: it's easier to climb in DR if you aren't perfectly clean. And that's a fault in the system, especially if you approach the latest standards (absolutely zero contact to the car in front of you) as sacred and avoid SR downs... you'll both take away potential finishing spot opportunities and also not benefit from the dynamic I summarized above. And to those that want to take advantage of the system... well, it makes it all the better for them. Not ideal.
     
  2. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    I wouldn't read too much into K Speed, in America you can get to A+ without bothering to qualify because the player numbers are so much lower than Europe and I'm not sure how to say this nicely but the overall quality is not that high so you don't need to worry about qualifying well which pushes K' up. Lower SR is exploited by some players to get easier wins but it's not worth doing for DR because you're up against worse drivers so the points for winning are tiny
     
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  3. KosmoKazi

    KosmoKazi

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    Agreed... I think we are saying the same thing, for the most part. But I would argue this part, having seen the opportunities: it is easier to raise your DR if you 'manage' your SR to pit yourself against easier lobbies. Sure, the points are lower, but the likelihood of positive points in those races, even a few hundred for second or those easier wins, is much higher, and without the backward steps that come with competing 'fairly' and in 99SR lobbies, where the competition top to bottom will be better.

    I have a ratio of about 1.2 'up' days compared to 'down DR' days, which means a slow climb. I don't often farm DR in easy lobbies anyway, but what I see when I see some higher A/A+ borderline players is a more erratic SR history, and corresponding DR gains in chunks. I'm only saying that it's much harder to climb the DR ranks when you keep your SR clean, not only for the potential positions in races, but because in any given race, there are 10 or more drivers who are all equally or better skilled than you.

    And I'm sure it's a different story for the 'aliens' who can just take up the game and ride up a DR wave faster than I've been able to. But overall, the penalty system and its interaction with the DR system (which I really like, by the way... I think it works well) is ripe for gaming.
     
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  4. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    I think it's too risky to do deliberately, it might show up like that as a side-effect of people farming wins but you gain so little DR for them but run the risk of a big drop each race if you lose (which isn't rare with people setting up new alt accounts) and finish behind somebody with a much lower score.

    This might be an extreme example but when we had the GrC race at Le Mans I could win 10 races in a row and barely gain any DR but because I was at 80k one spin would be a 1k drop even finishing in the top 5 with just A+/A finishing ahead.
     
  5. KosmoKazi

    KosmoKazi

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    640
    For sure it's gotta be tougher in the UK/Europe... many more players and some good talents, perhaps with a better basic respect for racing rules given the deeper/richer culture of road racing there.
     
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  6. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    Honestly, I don't think I'm at fault for this one:

     
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  7. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    Of course it is. Even if it wasn't automated no-one will ever blame themselves especially if they can get away with it.

    Enjoy it for what it is ffs.

     
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  8. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I guess racing in SR.E this week, until I qualify. The system is now too broken, no passing simulator. Race quality and internet quality has gone down. Often I'm the only one with green bars :confused: Car lags, -12 SR for me lol. The SR.E and SR.D lobbies are actually a lot faster than higher SR lobbies.
     
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  9. OklaCaliTexan

    OklaCaliTexan

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    28
    There is a very nice ratings system on ACC. It makes for some excellent racing, however you have to build your ratings high enough to qualify for the best lobbies.

    Most suggest racing in Single Player mode where you can customize your races to fit your needs. This seems to be the fastest way to build your ratings.

    Nonetheless no matter what lobbies you enter there will always be a few bad apples and a few pure misjudgements.

    In my opinion this is the best and most fair online racing lobbies available on console, once you have your ratings high enough and avoid low level/ratings lobbies.

    The ratings system is on a scale of 0 to 10,000

    One thing that has been helping me out is knowing what the colors of each racer's number plate means in online lobbies. When you look at the live timing screen while getting ready for a race you will notice each racer's number plate. A red number equals amateur, grey number equals silver cup driver, and white number indicates pro.

    It would appear that amateurs have point ratings between 0 and 7500.

    Silver cup drivers have point ratings between 7,500 and 9,000.

    Pro rated drivers with the white plates are above 9,000 points.

    I have been avoiding lobbies where a majority of the drivers are red number plates. I'm trying to find as many lobbies as I can with all grey and white plates.

    Racing in those types of lobbies has provided some quality racing against racers of more common ability to each other.

    What I'm saying is... I raced GTS for a long time. I got tired of the issues you all are discussing.

    I bought ACC on release and have not even booted GTS up since.

    Is it perfect? No.

    However it is a huge...ginourmous leap forward from GTS in terms of pure racing especially for wheel users. The FFB is on another level.

    Is it as pretty? No. But dad gummit it's dad gum good.

    Not to mention the need for more like minded players to fill the lobbies.

    If y'all would stop complaining and get with the program ACC would be better still.

    Luke. Come to the dark side!!!

    Which in this case is the light side.

    Shared fault penalties. No time served on track causing chaos. No ghosting. Its like real life racing, except a sim.

    You hold the key to your success and enjoyment.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2020
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  10. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    Just a small compilation showing why it's hard to not lose SR on the Nordschleife in GTS.



    The first one just made me laugh. :lol: And to all those who are about to comment that the penalty was very clearly my fault. First, he most likely did that on purpose to stop me from overtaking him. Second, if you don't go for it in a situation like this on the Nordschleife then you just will not overtake anyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  11. MOPARbarrett5

    MOPARbarrett5 Premium

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    What should mostly happen versus what does mostly happen.
     
  12. O604

    O604

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    Not really video worthy. But -SR for a bump on T1 this morning. Clean the rest of the way. Finished -5 SR. Just happens to be the only Daily video I saved since I quit about half my races lately.

    Logic in +/- SR is gone. No consistency. No incentive to improve. SR/DR might as well be random. I only run a few laps per week now so I can join in on weekly lobby racing.

     
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  13. Sven Jurgens

    Sven Jurgens Premium

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    I couldn't get back to SR.S this week while racing without qualifying on the Nord. The hefty SR deductions negate and gains made, no matter how many clean races. It's a lose lose situation in traffic. Get bumped from behind, red SR. Car messes up in front, can't completely avoid, red SR. Get rammed yet the one ramming goes off as well, red SR. Laggy car jumps back and forth, red SR. Get tagged while making pass, red SR. All the other car has to do is make contact, then when you complete a pass you get a penalty. I did have a couple victories this week, nothing like before though. The SR ranks are now so scrambled that there are (relatively) fast people starting on pole anywhere.

    I qualified on Sunday to fix my SR which still took a long time. Plenty victories robbed by nose stickers, or simply getting punted into the wall at the end. Yes the penalty system does give the offender 1 or 2 sec penalty, no that's not enough. Besides that I sometimes got 1.5 second wall penalty for getting punted into the back wall :banghead: SR.S was predictably sneaky again, especially the A/S crowd with the nose sticking and sideways pushing. They take more effort to not hit bumper to bumper yet go all out in sideways contact sigh.

    For the first time I have to say I didn't really enjoy the Nord. I still did a lot of races yet the frequency of getting a fun clean battle is now terribly low. Down to 1 in 10. The penalty and SR system have succeeded to mess it up beyond repair.

    I think I'm done with GTS :ouch:

    On a positive note, I went side by side with a laggy Brazilian all the way from Hocheichen through Flugplatz to Schwedenkreuz before going single file again. It is all possible contact free. However 9 out of 10 times, as soon as you have a run and get alongside you simply get pushed off without the penalty system registering the side swipe.
     
  14. Kermit_2142

    Kermit_2142

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    924
    So I’ve done at least 6 races at Race B tonight and the penalty/SR system seems to have changed since a week ago....??

    SR down only -6 so no crazy Sr swings, I stayed S all night even with a contact penalty (which was concertina effect and I bumped the car ahead - took it on the chin, I could’ve been more aware but I didn’t see a car 2 cars ahead way off line etc).
    Side by side racing with door rubbing etc no SR downs or penalties.
    Got rear ended a couple times didn’t get any penalties for it.
    Mixture of lobbies some very quiet, some quite rough (a few penalties got given out but even though I got bumped about by the pack I didn’t get one off of them,) and a few really really fast ones.
    I completely binned it on the final turn loosing the rear, tangled 2 drivers up with me but no penalties given out.

    All in all a good nights racing, seems everyone’s got used to it and playing ball being clean.

    However, I’ve noticed my friends qually list is very short on all races. Hoping everyone hasn’t been scared away :(.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2020
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  15. KosmoKazi

    KosmoKazi

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    I made it to 12 clean race streak in the last week, most of them at the Ring... I have no idea how I did that, but it was finally broken by a typical SR down at Monza from unavoidable contact initiated by others, as usual.
     
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  16. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    You got lucky. You were in lobbies with like-minded players who also did their best to avoid any contact. Unfortunately for me, I was not. But I don't qualify anymore and race from the back so that's on me. I get tossed into lobbies with players way below my skill, speed or sportsmanship. So, with this latest version of the penalty system, my SR is not a reflection of my driving but rather the driving of those around me. My SR is currently at 75 (really hard-earned :lol:) and that's not going to change any time soon because I'm done with this game. PD have finally made it unplayable for me. They've taken the fun out of the racing and turned it into a "don't you dare slightly touch another car" simulator. Or should I say a "don't you dare get wrecked by another car" simulator. :lol: In any case this is the final nail for me.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2020
  17. roqit88

    roqit88

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    Apparently PD is too busy working on GT Seven to give a rat's &%# about this penalty system. After the last fiasco (March 2020), they said they are "constantly" working to improve it. But they clearly are not. The algorithm cannot be so complicated as to prevent them from fixing the truly outlier, off-the-chart mistakes it's making currently. They simply don't care. And guess what: it's bad for business, because it will surely drive down sales of GT 7.
     
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  18. O604

    O604

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    Score is a measure. A measurement means nothing if the unit of measurement is not consistent.

    SR reductions at the moment are extreme relative to the 3 years prior. I see many, too many players who have been consistent for 3 years, suddenly on the receiving end of deductions in the past 3 weeks. It is a very obvious statistical anomaly.

    At least announce the changes, with reasons so players can adjust. Otherwise it just comes across as a huge middle finger to the entire player base. I would like to point the finger back at you.

    Seriously, what the hell are you thinking? :confused:
     
  19. Raptor013

    Raptor013

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    185
    Location:
    Australia
    They seriously need to remove the penalty for being rear ended.

    Was recovering after being pushed off track at Lesmo 1, only to get punted by the guy behind travelling at full noise, and a 4 second penalty for my efforts.

    Next race, was being drafted down the front straight. I hugged the left and made sure to leave room. Got bumped by the guy drafting me from 3rd trying to pass both me and the guy i 2nd. 1 second penalty for holding my line.
     
  20. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    741
    bumpity bump bump. its still ****.

     
  21. Granadier

    Granadier Premium

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    Would love if PD released another update to revert the recent changes. (I feel like I'm a broken record at this point)

    Getting a penalty for a car behind lightly tapping your bumper while a dive bomber hitting your door to make a dive inside gets nothing is beyond insanity.

    Seeing these examples makes me fear for how extremely basic the logic must be right now for determining penalties.

    if (contact) {
    sleep(1000)
    givePenalty(carAhead)​
    }
     
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  22. Lateralus5813

    Lateralus5813

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    105
    Something that's quite absurd in Monza at least, if they bump you across T1 you are reset and the guy that screwed you gets maybe 3 or 4secs. You'll never see that dude again lol. So freaking unfair!!!!
     
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  23. Leovizzz

    Leovizzz

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    46
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    Brazil
    So I tried Sport mode after a couple of months and I regret trying. Again.

    Had a solid start at Lago Maggiore and everything was safe and sound til someone decided to go full throttle on me at the banked curve. I managed to stay on track but the other car not: 4s penalty for me and down to SR C.

    Common PD, ghosting should be standard for daily races, or make it a choice for the players.

    I have no intention on playing this game again nor GT7 if this **** is not fixed.
     
  24. sturk0167

    sturk0167

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    Exact quote from McMurphy at the time of the penalty: "OH, JESUS CHRIST!". :irked: :lol:
     
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  25. djidane57

    djidane57

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    512
    "so you say you tried everything to avoid this car? not good enough son "
     
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  26. Jagman XK8

    Jagman XK8

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    Location:
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    This game is so broken it's ridiculous.

    I had a good week on the Ring a couple of weeks back with wins and seconds / thirds, made some hefty gains back to DR/B, SR/S. Brimming with confidence I attempted a couple of races last week, but couldn't match the pace, so left it alone with B/B still intact.

    Then today, qualified well for Autopolis, but rammed in two races on the first bend and two hefty time penalties for me and back to B/C. Hmmm, I thought, this is going to be carnage, so move onto Race A with the ford GT for a better chance. Qualified well using a smooth line and started 4th on the grid. First race went well with a clean race star and a good finishing position. This is going to be good I thought - WRONG!!! In the second race a good starting position again and with some good slipstreaming found myself leading after the far bend. Then the moron in second found my tail and instead of going round, he nudged me and bingo, SR down. He did the same three times with the result that I ended up C/E despite finishing fourth. I didn't hit or nudge anyone, yet here I am again way down the ranks. PATHETIC!!
     
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  27. 4LitreWhip

    4LitreWhip

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    6

    Pretty much the same happened to me, T1 at Autopolis. I started near the back of the grid, Still got twatted from behind sent my car into a frenzy.....3s penalty and a reset to C.

    I ain't ever complained about the penalty system on here, but this is just ridiculous.
     
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  28. Jagman XK8

    Jagman XK8

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    This forum is the one thing that has kept me sane in all this, knowing that more experienced drivers than me are facing the same issues at all levels. My driving is far from perfect and my only aspiration is to do the best possible with my ability, but the cards are firmly stacked against people like me who would like to progress to the level of our natural ability.

    I normally do pretty well (top 10 to 20 percent) in the online time trials, which I believe gives a more accurate reflection of ability and I'm going to concentrate more on these now. That said, there was one recently with an electric BMW on the Northern Isle Speedway, where I went round and round and round in a car with no ability to tune, or use manual gears and I still couldn't match the top drivers no matter what I did, or what line I took. I even downloaded two different and faster ghosts, but they both pulled away as if I was driving a clapped out taxi. Is there a sneaky fix I just don't know about???

    I think Roqit88 is spot on with the view that PD are too busy with GT7 to bother about loyal users of GTS. Would I 'upgrade to 7?, not a cat in hell's chance!
     
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  29. hardvibes

    hardvibes

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    In less than 3 races with the Ford I went from A to E.
    I don't even touch the controller to go straight, people bump and ram me from behind, I try to not lose control of the car, especially in the long corners, I get 4 seconds penalties.
    Who is in charge of this :censored:?
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  30. urtica

    urtica

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    Location:
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    I've given up using my main name for online races. It is not worth the certainty of seeing the ratings I worked hard to achieve go up in smoke.

    All I want is a good race, clean and fair, but that is impossible at present.

    Two reasons: 1) Nasty drivers who have no manners and 2) A useless penalty system.
     
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