PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Gareth davies, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. MikeV27

    MikeV27 Premium

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    Jumped on last night and did some daily races for the first time since around June, got some truly bs penalties. I don’t remember it being this sensitive before?
     
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  2. Sander 001

    Sander 001

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    The best way to enjoy this game is to just load up a clean race and watch the replay :)
     
  3. MikeV27

    MikeV27 Premium

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    My SR hasn't been this low for like 1.5 years, the last time this happened was because I had enough of someone's :censored: after multiple races with them. SR is now at 80 for maybe 3 slight taps, 2 of which were not even my fault but they weren't worth any kind of penalty anyway. I kind of want to repair it tonight but I also don't see why I should care anymore...

    https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=2102721
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  4. Anarki301

    Anarki301

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    I just want to say that I understand that this kind of system is extremely difficult to make right and implement, but, you know, in any system, in any area of life, the first rule is that it can not make any "harm", you can not put in the use something that has the potential to make unfair decisions, it's just something that you can't and shouldn't do, it the first principle of any system.

    Right now, what we have in this game as a "penalty" system, it makes more harm than good, it's absolutely unbelievable to me that someone with common sense, or any sense, or whatever, can see this at work and decide to put it in use, I just can't believe it.

    Anyway, with all due respect, who ever decided to use this so called penalty system, is a gigantic idiot, and I'm sorry that I have to say this, but for me, that is just the way it is.
     
  5. RacingGrandpa

    RacingGrandpa

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    I think something has changed... On Brands Hatch this last few days I have been bumped several times and each time the culprit who pushed me or bump-passed me got the penalty!
     
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  6. Petroperu

    Petroperu

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    It's not that difficult to be honest.
    It's not something that has already been done either.
    I mean look at iRacing.
    You just need a proper damage model system, a rigid rule system, and a good community.
    Seriously, I overestimated the GT community.
    Based on this forum, I thought they were mostly good, but after interacting with them, they are no better than the COD community.
    I am still amazed how can some streamers of the caliber of SuperGT can exist among this drivel.

    Btw, by GT Community I don't mind GTplanet, but the whole online community.
    I thought that sport mode would be a direct representation of this community that tries to race clean, so don't misinterpret me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 28, 2020
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  7. sundaydriving

    sundaydriving

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    745
    .
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
  8. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    Quote yourself? Nice.
    You compare GTS to something more expensive, in fact very expensive to the point each bit of content costs more. Apples to oranges.
    Imo the GTS community is doin just fine.
    I can sign on and race anytime I want, and be almost guaranteed of having a race.
    Yes, sometimes penalties are waaay wrong,

    but everything considered it’s a fantastic game.
    Turn on hit button, race. No bs.
    If you dislike it my thought is later! Nice knowin ya! There’s a million others I’d wanna race anyway! Bye!
     
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  9. Anarki301

    Anarki301

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    I agree with you about community, but only to a certain extent, there are some seriously f*up people out there, no question about it, and even some of the "normal" people in the game are thinking that this daily races are like some final game of the Olympics or something, ffs, it's just one race, it doesn't mean anything, you can start a new race in a few minutes, what's with all the aggressiveness, but still, majority of racers are trying to be clean, imo.

    My main problem is with the way that ratings and penalties work in this game, and players didn't made and implement this system. There is a possibility to lose like 15K or more DR points in one race due to some unfortunate circumstances, even without doing anything really, really wrong, and that for me is just plain and simple wrong, especially because you'll need to grind that rating back for days. Anyway there are just too many examples of where it is just not working as intended, so it's obvious for me that this whole concept of ratings and penalties is just poorly thought out.

    Also, I agree that damage model system would have a great impact on clean racing and they need to do something different, at least for this new game that is supposed to come out.

    Generally speaking it's a shame that things are like this, I like the concept of online racing that they presented to us and the whole game is really okay with me.
     
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  10. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    This morning has shown the flaws in the SR system. I started at SR 1 but after 3 cleanish race C's (the only dirty sectors were from clipping the wall with the donut at the end) I'm back up to SR 99. Then after 1 race A being pushed it's back down to SR 1.

    Ignoring the penalties for now and assuming they're all deserved for bad driving how can a system which fluctuates so wildly in just 4 races be used to determine who is a clean driver and who is dirty?
     
  11. CowboyBebop4

    CowboyBebop4

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    I'm sorry Gran Turismo Sport, the broken penalty system is so bad that I have lost the urge to even play you anymore.
    All the work that has gone into creating a "real driving simulator" is essentially wasted once there is a rammer playing it like its a game.

    It's immensely frustrating to qualify in pole only to get pushed into the kitty litter at the first turn at brands hatch. Or get rear ended and fly off track losing 20 seconds, while they only have to serve a 4 second penalty.

    Basically, if the game allows any player to obtain an advantage from dirty behavior then they will exploit it, and the game will devolve to the lowest level.
    The developers need to realize the community is *just as important* as the simulator itself. The only thing that will cultivate a realistic racing community is a proper functioning penalty system.

    If GT7 has the same penalty system I will NOT buy it OR a PS5. I'll build a PC racing setup and explore the many other racing platforms that cultivate clean racing.
     
  12. djidane57

    djidane57

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    i've seen a lot of hard fall from SR 99 , but from 99 to 1 ? SR down on every corner of the race?
     
  13. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    This was on SSRX so bump drafting all the way down the first straight then half of the second, it seemed to be about 20 SR for each orange SR down message (even the ones without a time penalty).
     
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  14. djidane57

    djidane57

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    ah getting penalties for being hit after a dive bomb from outer space i've missed that
     
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  15. MOPARbarrett5

    MOPARbarrett5 Premium

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    This may as well have been a 7 second penalty and I could do nothing about it unless I rammed the slow car ahead.

    How in any way shape or form should I be reset to there? If anything because I didn't spin I shouldn't have been reset at all.
     
  16. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    Copped four seconds for someone passing me heading into pitlane. We made contact and both skimmed the wall, no time lost, but four second penalty for me.
     
  17. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    So what exactly does the game want from me here, should I turn right to make the corner and tough :censored: for whoever is on the outside?

     
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  18. charmcharmchu

    charmcharmchu

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    I think they have changed the 'clean race' definition and the SR you gonna get after each race recently?
    Decided to up my DR ytd in daily race B and C but got punted crazy both races, got some BS penalty along the way, DR dropped massively to 50s range.
    Needed to grind the SR back up but found that extremely difficult, sometimes SR dropped with no penalties recorded during the race, just some slight taps happened along the way, or got bumped by other people who got penalties afterwards.
    I think it's better that SR needs to be earned in a harder way, but the penalty system is BS many people just stop caring about SR altogether, thus dirtier racing.
     
  19. BaareCZ

    BaareCZ

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    I think every time another car is really close to you, this game wants you to pull over (safely, of course), turn off the engine, get out of the car and run as fast as you can and as far as you can away from the track. :lol: :lol: :lol: First, I think the game has no idea that there's another car right next to you if you don't make contact with it and second, if you had turned into him to avoid the cut, you would have gotten a penalty for forcing another car off the track. So you were f'd either way. :lol:

    I have another fine example of this. Yesterday at Spa I got punted braking into in the chicane before the finish line and got a 4s penalty for it (no reason given of course). I think the game thought I was brake-checking the car behind me. :lol:

    Yes. They have made it very difficult to raise your SR now, which is great and I support it. But unfortunately they have also really broken the penalty system in the process.

    An orange SR down is now punished a lot more severely than a penalty. So, slightly tapping someone's rear bumper costs you now more than completely obliterating them. If you get 1 penalty for contact in race C, you can still finish with blue SR. But if you get 2 SR downs for insignificant or inconsequential contact, you'll finish red. Race A or B is basically impossible now. 1 penalty or 1 SR down and you're red. Getting a clean race bonus and racing at the same time is next to impossible now.

    Yes, exactly. And I'm one of them. The game is a complete joke now and that's how I will treat it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  20. Timm Sheehan

    Timm Sheehan

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    I had the same penalty today.
     
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  21. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    Would you think in real life that your moves there wouldn’t have consequences? The cars goin pretty quick through a dangerous section of course that’s injured and killed drivers before. Those are just gt3 above which are slower yet.
    I think I would describe peoples driving at certain times in game as kamikaze :).


     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  22. Leovizzz

    Leovizzz

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    From my perspective you should have backed off before entering Eau Rouge, then overtake with slipstream on Kemmel
     
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  23. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    The corner has been reprofiled a few times since the Bellof/Ickx crash so at this point it's not much more than a curved straight, especially in a Super GT car with all of that downforce. I wouldn't try it in a real car but the collision physics on GTS means nothing too bad is going to happen from a bit of side by side.

    As for GT3... :bowdown:



    If it was for the win I probably would've but for whatever position we were fighting for there you have to go for the spectacular :cheers:.
     
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  24. Vegard

    Vegard

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    Two of those cars would have gotten 0.5s for ignoring track limits through Raidillon though :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  25. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    3,274
    I mean I get it, just go NASCAR up through there, it’s one reason I am not gonna race that race, I don’t personally enjoy that, or gr2, generally, although the FIA at Catalunya in gr2 was awesome...
    To each their own :)
     
  26. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    There is nothing wrong with aggressive racing so long as neither player is an idiot, there was nothing wrong with the racing, just a shame the penalty system can't cut you some slack.

    Some people like time trials, I prefer racing :)
     
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  27. Groundfish

    Groundfish

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    Well to each their own, I do to.
    One reason I don’t participate in certain groups races is because people fly across the grass and smash me off because to them that’s what they consider racing.
    That’s not racing that’s arcade, and I would rather race in sport mode.
     
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  28. GOTMAXPOWER

    GOTMAXPOWER

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    SERIOUSLY?
    This is worthy of a track limits penalty for going off the circuit and gaining an advantage...



    ...yet this one, isn't



    :confused:
     
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  29. Coke

    Coke

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    Unfortunately the main problem has been with the track limits. I think they haven't been specified properly and most importantly, reliably. There are sections and corners where you are forgiven for going off track, just like in the 2nd clip above, and there are run off areas which are so sensitive that touching them triggers the penalty immediately (1st clip).

    In my point of view, the best would be if there would be only one track limit, and that would be the white line which gives the main contour line for the trakcs. In corners the cerbstones would be the track limits, of course. And no matter what the circumstance is, those who cross that line, they get their penalty. But, that way it would be very unfair, right?

    A good friend of mine came up with an idea which I think could improve the penalty system. He thought of a voting system during racing. So how would that work? We all know, it's hard to make justice if someone drives recklessly or makes a mistake. We never know, whether the accident was on purpose or because of an unfortunate mishap, caused by clumsiness or other drivers forced us into. The problem is that the AI just can't make decisions. How could it as it just processes a combination of data such as speed, angle, position, etc. But the drivers themselves know if they caused the accident by being hit by other racers or if they were too agressive. Obviously, that would require from the drivers to "rate" their driving honestly. That's why the voting system only would be active of an SR and DR level required to be at least Rank A and above. So only the serious drivers - those who already proved their sportmanship and professional driving skills - would need to take the role of judging certain situations. How would that work in practice?

    Let me illustrate you an example which mostly ends up with a penalty. "A" and "B" drive side by side as they approach the corner. "B" defends the inside line as they hit the brake and "B" keeps the line during the turn, leaving room for "A". After they leave the apex a slight contact happens. The system instead of penalizing any of them, gives them a question: Does the driver (input driver name) deserves a penalty? If they both say no or they both say yes, then the race may continue and non of them get penalized. But what happens if they disagree? In that case, the system would do the judgement and give penalty to the one which it "thinks" was the responsible for activating the penalty. Why would that be a good thing or at least better than any of the penalty systems before?

    There's nothing worse than an exciting racing moment ruined by a penalty, especially then if the contact is light and didn't lead to any accidents. Of course, there are situations which still would require some refinements. The biggest accidents happen mostly in the first corners or when multiple cars get too close to each other. Those situations are really hard to process. At times, even in real life no proper decisions can be made. But the system could learn from every situation and by using the results of votes, it would not ask, nor it would disturb the drivers to make decisions of penalizing the other one or not. I don't say it's a revolutionary idea but it definitely would improve the racing quality.

    Of course, ideas and suggestions are welcome but I wouldn't mind seeing a similar, improved penalty system implemented in the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  30. ShiftingGears

    ShiftingGears

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    I don't think its particularly worth celebrating, considering only one of the cars stayed on the track...
     
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