Performance points must go!

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PD has always prided itself on how authentic a simulation Gran Turismo is, so I was shocked to find that they had 'partially' replaced a system based on rules, with a system based on interpretation in GT5:P.

Performance points, however well intended, are are very, very poor addition to the franchise, and on some levels break the simulation aspect of the game.

I only have a passing interrest in cars, but I'm almost 100% certain that a Renault Clio, would not be able to complete with any Ferrari. Yet on GT5:P we regularly see this ridiculous matchup.

On top of this, the system that the perfromance points is based on is itself based on interpretation. Some cars have vastly higher penalties placed upon them for using the same parts as other cars. Why?

If the reason for including the performance points was to even out the palying field, then why not just inlcude a more balanced field of cars? Adding high powered cars and then gimping them out seems totally illogical.

I have no real interest in racing the fastest cars in GT5, as I always race <400bhp/<1000kg cars. That is not why I posted this thread, but I would like to see cars racing in their correct brackets and not puching way over their weight.

what do you guys think?
 
Finally!! someone said it!! I would much rather have a race with a Hp cap than all the PP's.

A 200-220 Hp race with only class B cars and pro physics would be fantastic.
 
Havok_
Finally!! someone said it!! I would much rather have a race with a Hp cap than all the PP's.

A 200-220 Hp race with only class B cars and pro physics would be fantastic.
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you mean like gt2?
 
I'm another one who's not a huge fan of the PP system, mainly because I'd prefer to drive bog standard cars. I'm hoping it'll stay out of GT Mode and I don't think there will be a need for it either, simply because there will be far more cars to choose from with most cars having more than enough competitors in the same performance range.

When it comes to Arcade Mode, I'm not really that fussed because in that case there would be no chance of me feeling the need to use it.
 
I am another who is not a fan of the PP system and enjoy driving standard cars the most.
I used to enjoy the HP restrictions in GT2, though it obviously has it's downfalls too. I hope GT5 reintroduces boost controlling again as in GT2, was a easy way to adjust power output to make eligibility for races.
 
What I don't like about the PP system is the R tyres on cars, I always thought this was the cause of a good number of crashes,the added grip meant people were braking far later than they realistically could,so everyone is just diving in.

If I had it my way each car would be locked to it's recommended tyre.So if you were driving the Z06 fresh tyres are N3,worn tyres are N2

Not all are here but it shows how far off R3 tyres are on these cars.
http://i32.tinypic.com/dqlqc6.png
 
Jay
I am another who is not a fan of the PP system and enjoy driving standard cars the most.
I used to enjoy the HP restrictions in GT2, though it obviously has it's downfalls too. I hope GT5 reintroduces boost controlling again as in GT2, was a easy way to adjust power output to make eligibility for races.
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I also would like to see power adjustment make a return ala gt2/3.
 
The performance points have a good side though.
Its very hard to make a game with this scale and then program restrictions like "400HP, no Turbo, aerodynamic must be in a certain level, only 3500cc" and so on. The PPs give us at least a window to work in and just imagine 2 class races, 750pp & 550pp in one race for example, this would be possible.

Only HP restrictions are at least this stupid because there will be always one dominating car, with PPs you can change advantages and disadvantages a bit.
 
I'm hoping PP is just a GT5P thing seeing as tuning is simplified and limited. I would hate to see it in the full game.

It's also unrealisitic in my view as most race series have regulations on power, aerodynamics, tyres etc don't they?
 
G.T.Ace
The performance points have a good side though.
Its very hard to make a game with this scale and then program restrictions like "400HP, no Turbo, aerodynamic must be in a certain level, only 3500cc" and so on. The PPs give us at least a window to work in and just imagine 2 class races, 750pp & 550pp in one race for example, this would be possible.

Only HP restrictions are at least this stupid because there will be always one dominating car, with PPs you can change advantages and disadvantages a bit.
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agreed, does anyone know how a ford gt40 got into a 295 hp race when it had 305hp on gt2 (it was some classic race.)?
 
G.T.Ace
Well try to program that into a game, especially the aerodynamic stuff.
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Aero maybe, but power caps, tyre limitaions, induction type etc can all be, and traditionally have been in past GTs. It doesn't really need to be more complicated than it has been, but just no PP please PD!

I don't really want to see a massively low powered cars on racing tyres go up against massively powerful cars on sports/normals etc, because I don't think you'd see it in real life (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). I'm sick of everyone sticking to just one type of car to have to be competitive.
 
You should really watch some videos from the 24h Nürburgring Nordschleife race. ;)
In GT are also races with Group C cars racing against LMPs etc. thats also not realistic.

agreed, does anyone know how a ford gt40 got into a 295 hp race when it had 305hp on gt2 (it was some classic race.)?
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Ah god damn, i remember that, on Grindelwald, the GT40 was dominating, i think i won it with a tuned Lotus Europa, cant remember.
 
The clio is proberly the tuned version which is very fast and corners amazingly, plus i think the pp system is there to make cars as close as possible to make good racing
 
I like the PP system, of course, it have leaks (like a Clio that blow up everything in his way).
But i thing PD will make changes and make it work properly.
 
Keep the Performance Points, just tweak it up. Hp/weight isn't everything. And while I enjoy racing stock cars, I like to do everything else. Lightly mod, heavily mod, and race mod if it's available. I want to be able to take a modified S2000 or Porsche :dopey: online or off, and have it match as closely as possible the other cars in the race. And to do that, I can't see how you can handle that without some kind of PP system which covers a number of performance issues from upgrades to aerodynamic enhancement.
 
I understand PP and quick-tune is a termorary system to keep us entertained and in GT5 we'll go back to traditional GT where you purchase updates for your cars. I wouldn't mind if we saw PP return for arcade mode and online though, though in GT mode, I'd rather go back to GT4 philosophy, where you can ubertune your car and trounce the opposition if you want, or save cash and challenge yourself.
 
as someone who doesnt give a stuff about any sort of online racing (would be happy if it was all scrapped to be honest) the thought of the PP system makes me shudder.

i will be playing single player exclusively so let me worry about keeping things fun in my own way.

just give me parts and tuning settings and put rules on the events like past GT's.
 
Aloha62_2
as someone who doesnt give a stuff about any sort of online racing (would be happy if it was all scrapped to be honest) the thought of the PP system makes me shudder.

i will be playing single player exclusively so let me worry about keeping things fun in my own way.

just give me parts and tuning settings and put rules on the events like past GT's.
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I couldn't have put that better myself.👍 + 1 million
 
I hate PP as well. Never liked the system at all. Why bother with it when we have HP and weight figures?

And for online racing it just gets ridiculous. Say the limit is 800PP, people put their car to 799PP to start first, regardless of what car it is. And then there's those that expect that so they set theirs to 798, or 797, and so it keeps going down to like 790. That's just absolutely ridiculous and completely ruins the gameplay since someone in a Ford GT Test Car starts in first place whereas you playing the rules fairly start at the back with a tuned Skyline or something with 800PP.
 
chrisbroughton
I understand PP and quick-tune is a termorary system to keep us entertained and in GT5 we'll go back to traditional GT where you purchase updates for your cars. I wouldn't mind if we saw PP return for arcade mode and online though, though in GT mode, I'd rather go back to GT4 philosophy, where you can ubertune your car and trounce the opposition if you want, or save cash and challenge yourself.
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I agree. Quick tune plus performance points do not belong in a simulation mode, but I believe that they are essential to balance the competition for multiplayer. Not that it is perfect system at the present; there are still some tweaks to be made. Overall, though, it seems to work pretty well.

Conquerer
And for online racing it just gets ridiculous. Say the limit is 800PP, people put their car to 799PP to start first, regardless of what car it is. And then there's those that expect that so they set theirs to 798, or 797, and so it keeps going down to like 790. That's just absolutely ridiculous and completely ruins the gameplay since someone in a Ford GT Test Car starts in first place whereas you playing the rules fairly start at the back with a tuned Skyline or something with 800PP.
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For some cars, it is impossible or highly inconvenient to achieve the perfectly round PP numbers. For instance, take the Audi R8, max out the power, minimize the weight, and put R1s on it, and it still is only 698 PP.
 
Vincent
For some cars, it is impossible or highly inconvenient to achieve the perfectly round PP numbers. For instance, take the Audi R8, max out the power, minimize the weight, and put R1s on it, and it still is only 698 PP.
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No, I'm aware of that. I'm specifically talking about when people do it on purpose, like with the tuned cars. Last time I played GT5P online I was using the Amuse S2000 and then the Ford GT Test Car in the 800PP Suzuka event and there were at least 5 of 6 Ford GT guys with just less than 800PP and we all know it's a car capable of reaching past 800 (since even my own was set at 800). I see this all the time with cars that I know can reach the limit.

On a related note another problem with Prologue is having cars which just dominate online, and that includes both Ford GTs (stock and test car). Both are just miles ahead of anything else in its class and I hate it when I'm using an F430 and everyone else is in a Ford GT and flies past me on the straights. I'm not a dirty driver so I'm not going to swirl back and forth to prevent people from slipstreaming me and also blocking or hitting them, but clearly these cars are a step above the others in their classes. Almost anyone who's at least decent can win in a Ford GT but it's not the same for other cars like the GT-R , F430, Z06, etc.
 
Dijital Majik
I'm hoping PP is just a GT5P thing seeing as tuning is simplified and limited. I would hate to see it in the full game.

It's also unrealisitic in my view as most race series have regulations on power, aerodynamics, tyres etc don't they?
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No, they don't. Practically every racing series based on production cars has rules that try to set an even playing field, but are not equal for all the cars. That involves different weights, different air restrictors (i.e. power), different sizes of wings allowed, etc. That is the case for e.g. WTCC and all FIA GT championships. How would they race otherwise when many cars have different displacements, weights, even different drive-trains (FF or FR or 4WD), etc.?

In my opinion, the PP system is a very good and necessary addition in GT5P. It provides for a possibility to race a variety of cars in the same performance range. And while you can complain about one or the other car's PP-setting, this can never be perfect and also depends on your driving skills and style. Most of the time, a better driver wins with same PP-cars.

And who says, in the soon to come GT5, a private race series HAS to use that system? If you want to race with stock cars only, why not do just that? You can base one race on stock models, and another one on maximum PP's. Where's the problem? I just know we would be at a loss, if we DIDN'T have that possibility to even out the field of cars.

The only thing that actually should be regulated in any PP-based race, is the use of which tires is allowed, because tires can affect the performance by far the most, which in most cases is not wanted. And while this might be reflected in the PP-system, it's not realistic to race in a supercar with N1's against some low powered car on R3's. Doesn't happen in real life, shouldn't be done in GT5.
 
mu51im
what did they use in the last gran turismo game? because 5 prologue is my first gran turismo game.
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Some races had restrictions on power, dimensions, tyres, etc. but nothing like the PP system. For most races you were free to race a fully tuned vehicle or a completely stock one.
 
I'm glad to see that I didn't get bombed for saying this! :sly:

The Performance Points system is nothing more than a player-defined handicap system, cleverly disguised as tuning options. PD are quite clever in the way they named it, 'Penalty Points' would be nearer the truth!

Like others here, I would like to see Gran Turismo reprise the HP/weight limits from previous games, and maybe even use power to weight ratio as a way of classifying cars (as they have in previous games with the CPU cars). Anything has to be better than the status quo! 👍
 
Personally Im sick of PP and its on of the main reasons why I am not playing GT5P anymore.

Seems to me we always end up with underpowered, overtyred cars or overpowered undertyred cars.

Running the LM GT type cars on N3's or even S1's is just ridiculous.

I would rather a car type/power/drive restriction like GT of old.
 

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