[PETITION] Make Gran Turismo 7 available to play offline.

631
United States
United States
No. The online requirement is to prevent cheating. As one save is used across both online and offline racing the online requirement is needed.
 

MikeV27

Premium
2,999
Canada
Kirkland Lake, Ontario.
veinzerrr
I will glady sacrifice offline saves if it means no one is able to manipulate their save files to cheat. I run into cheaters all the time in another game that I play so I have a zero tolerance approach at this point.
 
Last edited:

TS050

🐲
Premium
3,104
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
ask
I’m not a developer or anything, and I don’t know how much time it would take to implement, but I feel like adding a check or an anti-cheat would be a way better solution than having a single-player focused game which has an online requirement for most functionality

Have the system check the car data as you connect to an online-based mode - if something doesn’t add up (eg. a car making way more horsepower than what’s usually possible in-game, or a car being a full hybrid with the chassis swapped), the game simply reverts the car to stock settings.

People can have fun doing whatever they want offline while keeping hacked cars wholly out of online modes - sounds like a win/win to me
 

syntex123

Currently lurking!
Premium
4,041
Norway
Færder
syntex123
Syntex260Z
No. The online requirement is to prevent cheating. As one save is used across both online and offline racing the online requirement is needed.
And what is hacking? It’s cheating.
I’m not a developer or anything, and I don’t know how much time it would take to implement, but I feel like adding a check or an anti-cheat would be a way better solution than having a single-player focused game which has an online requirement for most functionality
That means more updates to keep the anti cheat up to date, cheats can easily be bypassed if the anti cheat is out of date. I’d rather PD focus on updates with content than new patches to an anti cheat
 

CBH

Premium
7,556
Australia
Adelaide
fordlaser777
Have the system check the car data as you connect to an online-based mode - if something doesn’t add up (eg. a car making way more horsepower than what’s usually possible in-game, or a car being a full hybrid with the chassis swapped), the game simply reverts the car to stock settings.
In Gran Turismo 5 PD did that through updates to stop players from going online with their hacked cars, and as soon you went online the cars just reset. So online saves are the way to go to stop hack cars from getting online.
 
Last edited:
12,258
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
No. The online requirement is to prevent cheating. As one save is used across both online and offline racing the online requirement is needed.
That's putting the cart before the horse. Why is only one save used? There's no requirement to have only one save for online and offline.

If having a different save system would allow online cheating to be prevented AND people to run single player content offline, then why wouldn't you want that?
I will glady sacrifice offline saves if it means no one is able to manipulate their save files to cheat. I run into cheaters all the time in another game that I play so I have a zero tolerance approach at this point.
That's not a trade-off that needs to be made though. It's based on an assumption that you can only have one save file that contains both online and offline data, and therefore if it must be offline accessible then it's available for people to cheat with.

I agree that there should be no reason to allow people to cheat online, particularly in competitive modes. It's very important for the integrity of online competition. But that doesn't need to come at the expense of single player offline content. You can have both a secure online mode AND a single player mode that doesn't require connectivity. The only reason these things appear to be in conflict is the "solutions" that Polyphony have chosen in the past. That's not the only way to do things.
 
620
Sweden
Hell
schlafhund
I’m not a developer or anything, and I don’t know how much time it would take to implement, but I feel like adding a check or an anti-cheat would be a way better solution than having a single-player focused game which has an online requirement for most functionality

Have the system check the car data as you connect to an online-based mode - if something doesn’t add up (eg. a car making way more horsepower than what’s usually possible in-game, or a car being a full hybrid with the chassis swapped), the game simply reverts the car to stock settings.

People can have fun doing whatever they want offline while keeping hacked cars wholly out of online modes - sounds like a win/win to me
Wasn’t the Sebastian Vettel X Challenge in GT5 an offline event? Some people have “completed” that in gold by using the glitch that was later patched but some clowns are going back to the particular version with the glitches unpatched. That’s tragic and it’s also cheating. Even if offline that’s really stupid and shouldn’t be happening. Unfair to the ones who actually completed it for real.
 
Last edited:
21,303
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Wasn’t the Sebastian Vettel X Challenge in GT5 an offline event? Some people have “completed” that in gold by using the glitch that was later patched but some clowns are going back to the particular version with the glitches unpatched. That’s tragic and it’s also cheating. Even if offline that’s really stupid and shouldn’t be happening. Unfair to the ones who actually completed it for real.
How on earth is that unfair? How does someone cheating in their game affect your achievements in any way?
 
Last edited:
678
United States
United States
AgentBlackDog
So far, I'm still of the position that PD could take R*'s method of implementing separate saves for specific modes. Exploits and glitches will always be a thing that should be thoroughly looked at any point, no matter if in an offline or online session. Hacking can be a problem if used for cheating, or other nefarious purposes, but not all hacking is bad when considering some folks can make fangames out of hacks (as long as no one makes a profit from them or infect other computers).
 
53
Sweden
Sweden
I’m not a developer or anything, and I don’t know how much time it would take to implement, but I feel like adding a check or an anti-cheat would be a way better solution than having a single-player focused game which has an online requirement for most functionality

Have the system check the car data as you connect to an online-based mode - if something doesn’t add up (eg. a car making way more horsepower than what’s usually possible in-game, or a car being a full hybrid with the chassis swapped), the game simply reverts the car to stock settings.

People can have fun doing whatever they want offline while keeping hacked cars wholly out of online modes - sounds like a win/win to me
I really like that idea.And besides that i think you'll be an expert in programing and how many is experts in programming just for a cheat in the game(s) ?
 
620
Sweden
Hell
schlafhund
How on earth is that unfair? How does someone cheating in their game affect your achievements in any way?
Are you kidding? How is it not unfair? Through doing that they’ve most likely gained the final gold medals to earn the very difficult “Gold Standard” trophy and subsequently the GT5 platinum trophy as that’s usually the final challenge people miss in that game.
 
21,303
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Are you kidding? How is it not unfair? Through doing that they’ve most likely gained the final gold medals to earn the very difficult “Gold Standard” trophy and subsequently the GT5 platinum trophy as that’s usually the final challenge people miss in that game.
Are they gaining an advantage against you personally? Is your trophy somehow diminished by the cheater? Do you feel it less of an achievement?

No, the only person they've cheated is themselves. It has zero affect on you if someone on the other side of the world cheated to get it.
 
39,193
Australia
The Bronx
Are you kidding? How is it not unfair? Through doing that they’ve most likely gained the final gold medals to earn the very difficult “Gold Standard” trophy and subsequently the GT5 platinum trophy as that’s usually the final challenge people miss in that game.
It does not effect your game and how you play. That's the reasoning. Someone cheating in their game offline, do a not effect mE playing my game offline.

If someone gets all the golds, trophies, all cars, everything, that does not effect me. I may not have the time to complete everything. I may want to play the game at my pace. It's only psychological.
 
12,258
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
That's not irony.....
I'm glad you realised that your original post was erroneous.
Are you kidding? How is it not unfair? Through doing that they’ve most likely gained the final gold medals to earn the very difficult “Gold Standard” trophy and subsequently the GT5 platinum trophy as that’s usually the final challenge people miss in that game.
Oh my god, no! Someone call the internet police!

If someone makes themselves an Olympic gold medal at home, does that devalue the Olympic gold medals of every athlete who ever won one from the real Olympic Games? I'd suggest not really, because the gold medal itself means nothing, it's a symbol of the hard work and experience that those athletes had to get that achievement. Even without the physical medal, they're still people with incredible accomplishments, and even with a physical gold medal that he made in his garage little Timmy from Ontario is not.

If you're worried that someone else having some virtual bits attached to their PSN denoting that they have an achievement that they may not have fully earned somehow devalues you as a person, you may need to take a breath.
 
53
Sweden
Sweden
How can someone lay hours upon layers of hours to make a cheat/hack?When they could played the game to be better drivers?And those people must really know what system PD uses.Is it linux,mac,windows,thier own or what? AND then re-program it?I might be really de-railed in my poor brain of mine :banghead: but can't make any sense out of it....
 
39,193
Australia
The Bronx
The same way a player corks a bat, scratches a baseball, misses a foul shot, turns off their webcam and another player(professional driver) drives for them. Same reason why The Joker just does stuff. What ever is in someone's head.
 
620
Sweden
Hell
schlafhund
Are they gaining an advantage against you personally? Is your trophy somehow diminished by the cheater? Do you feel it less of an achievement?

No, the only person they've cheated is themselves. It has zero affect on you if someone on the other side of the world cheated to get it.
You already know the answer to your very first question, which frankly is a bit silly. No. Is my trophy diminished? No, I know I did it for real with a DS3 and it’s by far the most rare and impressive trophy I’ve achieved across all games. Even with the cheaters having “achieved” it it’s still a 0,1% one and 0,58% on psnprofiles (4,140 achievers out of 708,430 owners).

You’re right that it’s themselves they’ve cheated, I’ll give you that. It’s however beyond pathetic how someone would go out of their way to find and get the specific unpatched version of the game so they can fake achieve a trophy they shouldn’t even have.
It does not effect your game and how you play. That's the reasoning. Someone cheating in their game offline, do a not effect mE playing my game offline.

If someone gets all the golds, trophies, all cars, everything, that does not effect me. I may not have the time to complete everything. I may want to play the game at my pace. It's only psychological.
It doesn’t directly effect me and my playing of the game, yeah. But it may state they’ve accomplished something they haven’t. Not particularly cool, I’d say.
Oh my god, no! Someone call the internet police!

If someone makes themselves an Olympic gold medal at home, does that devalue the Olympic gold medals of every athlete who ever won one from the real Olympic Games? I'd suggest not really, because the gold medal itself means nothing, it's a symbol of the hard work and experience that those athletes had to get that achievement. Even without the physical medal, they're still people with incredible accomplishments, and even with a physical gold medal that he made in his garage little Timmy from Ontario is not.


If you're worried that someone else having some virtual bits attached to their PSN denoting that they have an achievement that they may not have fully earned somehow devalues you as a person, you may need to take a breath.
The final paragraph is the only part worthy of a response. Who said anything about worried? Nor am I agitated, I’m breathing just fine, thank you.

I just don’t understand the careless “whatever” attitude towards cheating. I just think they’re pathetic and they should be described as cheaters. Is that something you’d agree with?
 
21,303
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Sure, describe them however you want, I just don't think it's something worth ever thinking about too much. Cheaters have existed in games as long as games have existed, pretty much. Both real life physical games and video games. Unless they're directly affecting you in some way, I'd never worry about it.

There are quite a few very hard trophies that were later made easy by glitches or cheats, I will always know I got them legit and that's all that matters to me.
 
12,258
Australia
Adelaide
GTP_Imari
The final paragraph is the only part worthy of a response. Who said anything about worried? Nor am I agitated, I’m breathing just fine, thank you.
I mean, you're taking how other people choose to play a single player game that doesn't affect you pretty seriously. You seem at minimum concerned that others would be able to play in a manner that you deem to be "cheating", hence why you're making an effort to convince others. Call it whatever emotion you like, but you certainly seem to have some emotional attachment to this.
I just don’t understand the careless “whatever” attitude towards cheating. I just think they’re pathetic and they should be described as cheaters. Is that something you’d agree with?
You can call them whatever you like. You can think of them as pathetic if you like. Does it make you happier to do so? Do you enjoy games more if you think of people who play differently to you as lesser?

For my own personal view, I don't view people who mod single player games as cheaters or pathetic. I get a lot of pleasure out of mods for various games, Assetto Corsa being chief among them.

For what it's worth, I've been "cheating" in games since someone pointed out that pushing M+I+L in Wolfenstein gave God mode. I don't feel like I have a "whatever" attitude towards cheating, because I don't view pretty much anything that goes on in a single player game as cheating in the morally negative sense that you're putting forward. "Cheats", mods, bugs, glitches or hacks are simply different ways of playing a game that someone might choose to use if they wish, and I don't really see it as any different to putting the game on Easy difficulty. I don't feel the need to police how other people have fun, nor do I feel that it takes away from any achievements that I may have made if someone else accomplishes the same thing through using easier methods.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I think it's very important that multiplayer modes are fair and equal. I think that cheating there should be taken very seriously. But that's a case where one player's cheating directly impacts how the game works for other people. For single player stuff, I think that the people that are pathetic are those that try to dictate what is the proper way for other people to enjoy themselves. I believe the generic term for that is kink shaming.
How can someone lay hours upon layers of hours to make a cheat/hack?When they could played the game to be better drivers?And those people must really know what system PD uses.Is it linux,mac,windows,thier own or what? AND then re-program it?I might be really de-railed in my poor brain of mine :banghead: but can't make any sense out of it....
The same reason most people play games at all - it's fun. Simply figuring out a system well enough to modify it can be a lot of fun for people who are into that stuff. It's not something that's attractive for most people, but I'd think anyone who can understand the joy of modifying a car could understand the potential attraction of doing the same with a piece of software.
 

syntex123

Currently lurking!
Premium
4,041
Norway
Færder
syntex123
Syntex260Z
not all hacking is bad when considering some folks can make fangames out of hacks (as long as no one makes a profit from them or infect other computers)
Taken into consideration that stealing game assets is illegal, it is quite bad. How is it not? All the Forza car models and putting them into GTAV as free mods for example. As illegal as it gets.
 
620
Sweden
Hell
schlafhund
I mean, you're taking how other people choose to play a single player game that doesn't affect you pretty seriously. You seem at minimum concerned that others would be able to play in a manner that you deem to be "cheating", hence why you're making an effort to convince others. Call it whatever emotion you like, but you certainly seem to have some emotional attachment to this.

You can call them whatever you like. You can think of them as pathetic if you like. Does it make you happier to do so? Do you enjoy games more if you think of people who play differently to you as lesser?

For my own personal view, I don't view people who mod single player games as cheaters or pathetic. I get a lot of pleasure out of mods for various games, Assetto Corsa being chief among them.

For what it's worth, I've been "cheating" in games since someone pointed out that pushing M+I+L in Wolfenstein gave God mode. I don't feel like I have a "whatever" attitude towards cheating, because I don't view pretty much anything that goes on in a single player game as cheating in the morally negative sense that you're putting forward. "Cheats", mods, bugs, glitches or hacks are simply different ways of playing a game that someone might choose to use if they wish, and I don't really see it as any different to putting the game on Easy difficulty. I don't feel the need to police how other people have fun, nor do I feel that it takes away from any achievements that I may have made if someone else accomplishes the same thing through using easier methods.

As I've said earlier in the thread, I think it's very important that multiplayer modes are fair and equal. I think that cheating there should be taken very seriously. But that's a case where one player's cheating directly impacts how the game works for other people. For single player stuff, I think that the people that are pathetic are those that try to dictate what is the proper way for other people to enjoy themselves. I believe the generic term for that is kink shaming.
You seem to paint a picture as if I’m someone who can’t sleep because of how much the cheater’s achievements annoy me. Far from it. It just came to my mind as I was reading through this thread and specifically the final sentence in post #123 by TS050, that’s it.

As I’m getting responses to my opinion I might as well respond to some of them, yeah?

Kink shaming. :lol: News to me that cheating/glitching/etc. can get people off.
 
53
Sweden
Sweden
All i can say is let the cheaters/hackers or whatever to stick to THERE singleplayer game and leave us "normal" people out of it and get rid of cheaters/hackers if we go online play.And I personally wouldn't play anyone elses gamesave.I'm not "ONE" of the best drivers that many implent to be in "worldclass fullscale racing or mega king/queen in online play" .So can all these "pro's" stop bragging about it.SOME of us just play for fun...:indiff: 😋 Guess no one agrees with me anyway
 
Last edited:
678
United States
United States
AgentBlackDog
Taken into consideration that stealing game assets is illegal, it is quite bad. How is it not? All the Forza car models and putting them into GTAV as free mods for example. As illegal as it gets.
Again, as long as no profit is gained or nothing nefarious happens, it's nothing to worry about. It's doing the exact opposite that could attract trouble from companies like Nintendo.
 

syntex123

Currently lurking!
Premium
4,041
Norway
Færder
syntex123
Syntex260Z
Again, as long as no profit is gained or nothing nefarious happens, it's nothing to worry about. It's doing the exact opposite that could attract trouble from companies like Nintendo.
But spreading it for free is okay?
As long as that person keeps it to themselves I guess it’s fine, but sharing it for free is worse than having people paying for it as more people would eventually download them
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,437
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
But spreading it for free is okay?
As long as that person keeps it to themselves I guess it’s fine, but sharing it for free is worse than having people paying for it as more people would eventually download them
You're pretty focused on one type of modding, but ripping content from another game to import into a different game is only one thing that's done. Someone doing that and charging for it is much worse than someone creating a mod that if availalbe for free, which in most cases is left alone even though it is a copyright infrigement. However charging for that same mod is not only a copyright infringement in many places but due to it making profits, you could also owe compensation to the copyright holder for the profits you made. So you'd get hit twice, once for the infringement and a second time for profiting from that, so selling a mod that infringes on copyright is most certainly worse than not selling one. People who make mods for free tend to be left alone in most case becuase they aren't making a profit from it.

There are however vast swathes of mods that don't rip assets from other games, some games are entirely built around the modding scene. Ultimately, modding is a personal choice, and I'm very much for it. It bleeds life into games that you would otherwise have left along a while ago. I see issues where games are played online, but offline let people play the way they want to play. If that means modding the game to pay out twice and much Cr, so be it. All PD would need to do is seperate the check for data integrity online with a check for offline and you could have an offline modding scene with no mods allowed online.

While modding is usually ignored and left alone, where it's nearly always opposed is where it's done for profit using existing assets which are under a copyright held by someone other than the modder.
 
Last edited: