Pics and Info Ford Focus RS500 leaked, well hacked by Swedish site :)

[Famine]

Looks like they're limiting it to 500 units in 20 European markets - 101 for the UK, 50 for some of the larger European countries and the rest divvied up.

 

[Stotty]

Not sure how Ford would build a 4WD Focus or Mondeo on the current models. Neither was designed to take a rear drive system from scratch and therefore any move to add this now would involve huge engineering costs - to add a transmission tunnel and space for a rear diff.

This is in addition to them not having a suitable 4WD system to fit in any case - you can't just fit something like the Kuga's system to a performance model.

Plus of course both cars are already pretty heavy and adding 4WD will just make them even heavier.

As for Cosworth, I don't see what Ford would gain from involving them other than for the kudos of having the badge on the rear - with modern turbocharging pretty much any manufacturer could get a reliable 150bhp per litre. It was different back in the Sierra days as turbocharging was a relatively new thing and specialists like Cosworth had unique knowledge.

 

[homeforsummer]

Quite. Cosworth did a lot to the actual engine of the old Sierras and Escorts as well as just bolting on a turbocharger. Not to mention they played a fairly major part in ensuring that the engines were rally-worthy.

 

[eSZee]

I agree its not astonishing... But I mean how much power can you actually put through a FWD before its goes beserk? 350 HP is pretty close or even over what you could normally get through a FWD car.... Or am I horribly mistaken here?

Depends on what you want to do with that power. I had a 330whp fwd sedan and taking it to and from school wasn't bad, nor was drag racing at the track. Other things I didn't bother with. The rs500 is supposed to be a great handling car like the normal RS and I just don't find that believable.

 

[Famine]

This is in addition to them not having a suitable 4WD system to fit in any case - you can't just fit something like the Kuga's system to a performance model.

Odd as this may sound (and technically unrelated, 'cos it's nothing to do with the 4WD system), but the Kuga was used as a testbed for the entire Focus RS system.

Depends on what you want to do with that power. I had a 330whp fwd sedan and taking it to and from school wasn't bad, nor was drag racing at the track. Other things I didn't bother with. The rs500 is supposed to be a great handling car like the normal RS and I just don't find that believable.

It's not power that's the issue - as commonly believed. It's torque. Hence the issue with powerful FWD cars torque-steering in low gears.

When you get north of 200lbft crank is when you get problems. Low torque, 200hp, FWD Honda Type-Rs? No problems. Alfa 147 GTA with 220lbft? Catastrosteer. ST220, with 210lbft? Feh, it's fine (though a heavier car). Vectra VXR, with 262lbft? Hedgefinder general.

The Focus RS has 325lbft and, make no mistake, is not very happy about it. The RevoKnuckle does an astonishing job. With less weight and way more torque than the Vectra VXR, you can drive it on the road and not understeer into every tree. Despite being heavier and less nimble, it's as good in really tight stuff as a RenaultSport Clio 197 - which is bloody hard to do - and will waste one on the straights. But even that can't stop the RS being a little bit unfriendly with that much torque on the front wheels.

Giving the RS+ even more won't help matters.

 

[eSZee]

Odd as this may sound (and technically unrelated, 'cos it's nothing to do with the 4WD system), but the Kuga was used as a testbed for the entire Focus RS system.



It's not power that's the issue - as commonly believed. It's torque. Hence the issue with powerful FWD cars torque-steering in low gears.

When you get north of 200lbft crank is when you get problems. Low torque, 200hp, FWD Honda Type-Rs? No problems. Alfa 147 GTA with 220lbft? Catastrosteer. ST220, with 210lbft? Feh, it's fine (though a heavier car). Vectra VXR, with 262lbft? Hedgefinder general.

The Focus RS has 325lbft and, make no mistake, is not very happy about it. The RevoKnuckle does an astonishing job. With less weight and way more torque than the Vectra VXR, you can drive it on the road and not understeer into every tree. Despite being heavier and less nimble, it's as good in really tight stuff as a RenaultSport Clio 197 - which is bloody hard to do - and will waste one on the straights. But even that can't stop the RS being a little bit unfriendly with that much torque on the front wheels.

Giving the RS+ even more won't help matters.

Sorry, I'm just used to using HP in conversations because the crowds I used to deal with, couldn't care less about TQ let alone what it actually was or what it did.
330hp and 350ft/lbs was the figure, btw.

 

[Jim Prower]

what exactly does this RevoKnuckle thing do?

 

[Joey D]

what exactly does this RevoKnuckle thing do?

It reduces torque steer and understeer in the car through black, voodoo magic as far as I can tell.

If you really want to know here is a really uninteresting presentation in a .pdf format about the RevoKnuckle.

http://www.not2fast.com/chassis/revoKnuckle.pdf

And this is what Ford says about it:

"The new Ford Focus RS is equipped with an innovative front suspension system known as a ‘RevoKnuckle’, which is designed to reduce unwanted steering disturbance and torque steer, the impact of torque on steering in front-wheel driven vehicles. Torque steer occurs during hard acceleration, cornering or driving on uneven surfaces, when torque on the driven wheels exceeds grips levels. It is characterised by sudden turning force on the steering wheel and can be exacerbated by vehicles with wide tyres and limited-slip differentials.

In Focus RS, the RevoKnuckle works in conjunction with a Quaife Automatic Torque Biasing limited-slip differential. Ford Team RS engineers have worked closely with Ford's Advanced Research Centre in Aachen, Germany to develop the RevoKnuckle technology specifically for the high performance Focus RS. It allows the simplicity of a traditional McPherson strut arrangement, but with geometry settings that minimize steering disturbances and torque steer, principally a reduction in steering offset."

 

[ExigeEvan]

Apparantley a system similair to what Renault had been using for several years previous. Except Renault focused on the handling of their cars on a whole, Ford focused on the RevoKnuckle. And gave it a snazzy name.

 

[Jim Prower]

Looks like the main thing is that it rotates the tire along a more vertical axis. I suppose that'd reduce torque steer.

Truthfully, though, if you apply enough torque to anything, it will cause problems. That's why you make a P-51 take off at WOT with a bit of rudder added, and why some drag and mud racers run different pressures (and even different spring rates - see Chrysler Hemi cars) on the back end. and why Helicopters have tailrotors or counter-rotating rotors.

I think the ideal setup...and this could be a bit far out...would to actually change the final drive ratios at the hubs slightly according to the steering angle. Thus, get rid of the diff altogether, and you get perfect torque split all the time. Such a system would probably be ridiculously complex, but...meh.

 

[lpb-nissan-gt-r]

I am pretty sure the RS was uncovered at the 2007 british motor show.

 

[Jim Prower]

This is some special RS500 commemorative edition.

 

[Jondot]

I am pretty sure the RS was uncovered at the 2007 british motor show.

Correct-a-mundo, though it was in 2008. Oddly I don't remember seeing it, and yet I have a vivid memory of the Vauxhall Insignia. Hmm.

 

[Philly]

What Ford should have done is sent this car to the US as an apology for not sending us the RS.

 

[JCE]

Only 2 things to say...

WANT

SEXY

 

[YSSMAN]

As an American I am left with two typical responses:

1) I wish we had the MKII Focus
2) This being a super-extra-awesome Focus that we will NEVER see, of course its totally awesome.


Does it make it hyper-awesome compared to the standard RS though? Not particularly, but it's still a pretty nifty ride. It'd be a fun drive with all of its voodoo magics (a paintjob to match no doubt), but I'll still take cars like the Golf-R and Renaultsport 197 as preferred driving alternatives.

 

[niky]

I wonder if you can retrofit the RevoKnuckle to the regular Focus? How much would it cost?

Because if I could order one off the internets, I will make good my promise of buying my Dad's Focus off of him. Already planning to swap suspensions with the face-lifted version, as they have better handling already...

If they'd given it AWD, or if they'd removed 200kg from the podgy Focus body, I might have been more interested.

Nix the former... yay on the latter. A crash-diet removing 200 kilos with no power added (okay... maybe add 50 more ponies on top and it's okay) would be the best thing for this car.

 

[eSZee]

Only 2 things to say...

WANT

SEXY

Is there a ford vehicle that you don't say those 2 words to?

Nix the former... yay on the latter. A crash-diet removing 200 kilos with no power added (okay... maybe add 50 more ponies on top and it's okay) would be the best thing for this car.

The RS has a hard time controlling 300hp. This has 350hp that will be even more troubling, and you want another 50hp?

 

[niky]

400 hp isn't too much to ask. Don't add any extra power below 5000 rpm and the car should be fine. Use a Mazdaspeed3 style limiter to keep power down to 300 hp in first gear, 350 hp in second, and allow only full power in 3rd through 6th.

 

[eSZee]

Hmm, that is true. But, the MS3 has 280tq and it also suffers from bad torque steer even with the limiter in place.

 

[niky]

It doesn't have the RevoKnuckle, though. The whole brief of the MS3 was different... the turbo and set-up were chosen more for massive low-end and mid-range than top-end... Ford purposely selected the turbo for the RS more for top-end than mid-range... which is why a "chipped" Focus ST with similar peak power is faster than the RS in a straight line (from EVO).

Mhmmm... anticipation...


Oversteer without all-wheel drive... RS doesn't need it... just dial out some of the rear camber and lose some weight on the front-end to make it more balanced...

I'm starting to wonder how long we'll have to wait for the 2-liter next-generation RS... that one should be epic...

 

[Famine]

Sorry, I'm just used to using HP in conversations because the crowds I used to deal with, couldn't care less about TQ let alone what it actually was or what it did.
330hp and 350ft/lbs was the figure, btw.

Well, technically it does nothing except make power

(and that should generate a fun argument for the rest of the thread, despite being technically accurate)

350lbft? I'll hazard a guess that this was some large, lazy, hefty, American behemoth with a slushbox and a 3.8 V6 or such like? And all the torque was generated at 4rpm? I imagine that'll be the reason why it wasn't dreadful - unless none of the above is the case.

 

[Paulie]

When I heard this thing in Ford's teaser video, all I could think was "This is the best hot hatch ever built on sound alone". It's too bad I still think that the next gen Focus is horriddly ugly, so unless ST/RS models get a much more seductive body kit this will be the last Focus I like for a long time probably. (It will also suck if they go back to an un-imaginative turbo 4cyl for the next gen model).

 

[homeforsummer]

Correct-a-mundo, though it was in 2008. Oddly I don't remember seeing it, and yet I have a vivid memory of the Vauxhall Insignia. Hmm.

It was bright green, I'm surprised you managed to miss it

 

[Neal]

Well, technically it does nothing except make power

(and that should generate a fun argument for the rest of the thread, despite being technically accurate)

Power = Torque x Angular Velocity

or to put it another way

courtesy of wiki although I do remeber my GCSE Physics

 

[Blitz187]

Numbers! this should get interesting now 👍

 

[Jim Prower]

Power = Torque x Angular Velocity

or to put it another way

courtesy of wiki although I do remeber my GCSE Physics

So THAT'S the correct formula. Thanks, I've been looking for that...

 

[Famine]

Power = Torque x Angular Velocity

or to put it another way

courtesy of wiki although I do remeber my GCSE Physics

I remember mine too - which would have been the same day as yours But even then they'd dumbed it down so far not to include it

Numbers! this should get interesting now 👍

As I said, technically accurate.

So THAT'S the correct formula. Thanks, I've been looking for that...

Easiest way is torque x current rpm/5252rpm (for lbft to hp).

Torque does nothing ("My eyes!") on its own. Torque x speed = POWAH!

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, if it works the same for Steam engine...well a friend of mine was wondering if he could run a simple (rowboat-sized) paddleboat using a toy Wilesco steam engine running at 30 PSi and 400 RPM...

but that's aside the point.

 

[Neal]

I remember mine too - which would have been the same day as yours But even then they'd dumbed it down so far not to include it

Indeed Fortunately I had a very good Physics teacher who would go off on huge tangents but still get through everything on the syllabus, in fact it was this style of teaching that made it so interesting and the reason why so many of us got A*’s

Easiest way is torque x current rpm/5252rpm (for lbft to hp).

Torque does nothing ("My eyes!") on its own. Torque x speed = POWAH!

Tick

So THAT'S the correct formula. Thanks, I've been looking for that...

Fill your boots if you want to read more on it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torque#Relationship_between_torque.2C_power_and_energy)