Please Help Me Be a Better Driver

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by XSquareStickIt, Feb 18, 2020.

  1. XSquareStickIt

    XSquareStickIt

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    tl;dr: I need any advice anyone can give. Thank you.

    I posted in the "GT Sport Driver Coaching" thread about two weeks ago and have yet to receive any response, so I'm starting a new thread hoping more people will see it.


    Game Ver.: 1.55
    Wheel: G29
    FF Torque: 3
    FF Sensitivity: 10

    I am woefully slow as a driver. My best times after hours of practice and trying are around 2 whole seconds off the top times on the leaderboards. At this point I might as well be driving at a tyre disadvantage, and I don't understand where I'm losing about a second per minute. I watch the replays, but they're laggy, abysmal messes that can't even show you where someone starts braking. You don't get to see their brake biases or if they're changing it on the fly. I can't make my car brake as late or turn as well as the ghosts in the replay and it's driving me nuts. I don't know how anyone is to gleam anything from replays aside from shift points.

    I feel like my lines are mostly there. I feel like I'm turning my car as hard as it will go, but I still lose pace. I feel like I'm missing something entirely and I would love for someone to please point it out to me. I think I've hit a point where I'm just banging my head against a wall alone and need input from others.

    More than just flat out pace; if anyone can give advice on anything else at all, be it spatial awareness, racecraft, how to choose a brake bias, anything at all to help me become a better racing driver, I will forever be grateful.

    Thank you.
     
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  2. Bloodytears

    Bloodytears

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    2 seconds slower off top times is about 1% from all players. You clearly can learn in races from rivals.
     
  3. watto79

    watto79

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    First of all, you're not woefully slow at all. Your DR shows a really good strong progression over the 300 races you've done and you're knocking on the door of A+. Those aren't the stats of a woefully slow player!

    I can't give any specific advice from your video as Nurb GP is one of my weaker tracks. As always though I recommend Tidgneys driving school on YouTube as a great resource to learn better car control, and where to pick up those extra tenths. From what you describe his video on weight transfer might be a good place to start, and he has specific videos on the other subjects you mention (braking, racecraft etc.)

    As general advice, making full use of the track width at corner entry and exit, and being as smooth as possible is where the fast lap times are. When hot lapping (daily race qualifying) I generally set myself a 10 lap limit before taking a break. After 10 laps of hunting extra time I'll just start overdriving the car and the lap times get worse. Take a break, start again and I'll be faster.

    Good luck :tup:

     
  4. Lazybike

    Lazybike

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    I'd like to offer some advice, but you're better than me :cheers: :bowdown: :)
     
  5. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    I think that finding the last part of the 2 seconds to top time deficit is down to feel and practice. I'm guessing that being comfortable with your set up helps. For example, having a stable rig and good seating position. For me, these two have been important.

    I'm no alien myself. I find myself around 2 seconds from the best on most tracks. Let's not forget that some of those guys live and breath gts. Do many kms per day as they put the time in. Most people don't have that amount of free time. So i'm guessing that's why most aren't aliens.

    Let's not forget natural talent and some have come from harder driving sims also. So when they come to Sport it's alot easier for them to dominate it as the physics they are used to are harder.

    It's good to identify all the areas that you need to work on and strengthen them. As Watto mentioned, Tidgneys driving school is a great help.

    Keep pushing and see where the limit is. I want to platinum GTS before i push for A+ 75K. I think I can get close through consistency. But we're all chasing that laptime, always!

    Good luck :cheers:
     
  6. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    I too am wondering if I’ll ever get anywhere near the top times. When I race in sport mode I normally qualify in the upper half. I wonder if I need a more expensive wheel and pedals?
    I do have several key points which may make for better times. I don’t know how accurate this is as I’ve only been racing on the game and studying forums for one month.

    1:

    I don’t have a clutch. I’ve noticed and read about people blipping the throttle on downshifts. The weight isn’t thrown on to the front wheels as much. Thus making the car slightly more stable.

    2:

    As said before. I don’t have a clutch. Upshifts can be affected apparently.

    3.

    I don’t have stiffer/upgraded springs on my brake pedal. Someone on a video said that on GT sport you cannot just slam the brake pedal to the floor. I guess it may need to be applied in a gradual but quick motion until you think too much brake is going to be applied? Again. Stability issues when entering a corner.

    4.

    ABS glitch. I’ve read that if you slightly depress the brake lever on a dual shock controller whilst using a steering wheel and pedals, an ABS boost is applied. This allows you to exit a corner faster.

    5.

    Force feedback. My Thrustmaster T80 doesn’t have it. I wonder if I would benefit more from the feel and delicately adjust controls rather than waiting for a visual indication that the car is starting to get out of shape.

    Just a few ideas. I’m pretty much on the limit on my racing lines. My biggest enemy is me applying the throttle slightly too early and running a bit wide on some corners. I don’t think my lap times are just as a result of that though.
     
  7. Mr616

    Mr616

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    First of all, you are not slow!

    When you are chasing the top top times, any slight line error or slide can cost you a tenth of a second or 2. Spread this over 10-20 corners and it all adds up. (I lose most of my time on corner exit, normally because I've slightly over driven on entry, but when I try a touch slower, I lose mid corner time lol).

    Once you hit a certain pace, it can seem like you are doing everything right, but the aliens are near inch perfect lap after lap after lap. 1 or 2 tenths over a lap, and then many laps all add up.

    Someone has posted a link to Tidge's racing school videos. That's a great place to get advice. He's fast, humble and gives good insights into how to be alien quick.

    At the end of the day. some people will just be faster. I'm old and feel like I've hit my ceiling on a few occasions but it doesn't stop me trying.

    Here's hoping you find a few more tenths :tup:
     
  8. barak181

    barak181

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    I'm the wrong person to offer advice, as this guy is way faster than me (I'm typically 3.5-4 sec off the top ten, depending on the track), but I do have to say that racing N-class cars really helped me understand weight transfer. The softer suspension really exaggerates the effect making it obvious where the weight of the car is at any given moment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2020
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  9. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    @Edd1982 clutch is disabled in Sport Mode. And you'd need 3 hands to steer a wheel, change down gears, plus press the brake on a DS4. I can't see that working.

    Force feedback is good though. I'd recommend an upgrade to a G29. It's a great wheel.
     
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  10. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    The ABS glitch was posted somewhere. Maybe here? Can’t remember? They achieved it with an elastic band holding the lever in slightly. It may have been eliminated on a more recent game update though? Even with no clutch I tried blipping the throttle at the same time as being on the brake. It didn’t seem to make any difference.
    A G29 is out of my price range at the moment. I have a Logitech driving force GT for my PS3. I like that and can imagine the G29 would feel a lot nicer as well. I bought the cheapest PS4 I could find. I made my own rig out of wood, exhaust clamps and a fishing chair.
    It does the job. I tailored the driving position to feel as much like being in a racing car cockpit as I could.
    I’ve found that trail braking into corners seems to help turn the car in as I’ve read. Trouble is, it’s such a fine line between getting it right and sending the car into a time consuming slide.
    It’s so much easier to get a feel for all this in real life on a real circuit. I used to own an Easykart 125cc. I took it to test days at circuits. I spoke to someone who had been multiple 2nd, 3rd and 4th place in the Rotax racing karts.
    He’d only, not won, because he couldn’t afford as many engine rebuilds as some racers. I asked him about setting up my kart. He said he’d try it around the circuit to see if anything needed adjusting to improve lap times. He came back after a few laps and said it was set up fine.
    We compared lap times on my Alfano steering wheel lap timer. I was about half a second faster on one of my laps than all the other laps we both had done. He told me that if I could get that sort of time, there was nothing wrong with that lap time and I’d do ok in races. Unfortunately it was far too expensive a hobby. Had to end.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  11. pantherjag

    pantherjag

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    Yeah your not woefully slow by any means. Some people would kill to be as slow as you.

    2 bits of advice or tricks I learned from david perel and tidgney that gained me time were these.

    David Perel talks about looking as far down the track as possible and getting eyes on the exit as early in the corner as possible. This allows you to judge earlier when you can get on the throttle thus gaining laptime. This really worked for me, its sounds obvious and you probably think you are doing it already but when you try it you realise you are just looking at the the 10-20 metres of road in front of you rather than where the car is going.

    Tidgney in a video mentions how the car can only do 100% when braking or turning but not both at the same time. So if you are braking at 75% you can still turn at 25% or turning at 80% means you still have 20% braking capability. I'm probably not explaining it that well but if you can get your head around it your trail braking will improve immensely.

    So yeah check out the 2 drivers mentioned channels and also I think David Perel(professional race driver) actually does 1-1 tuition on the game but I think at a price.
     
  12. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    Not sure also about any ABS glitch. The top players for the world tours wouldn't do that I would have thought. Not something i'd be into doing tbh.

    I used to have a DFGT. You know you can buy an adaptor to use it on PS4 also? You'd get your FFB again if you got it working.

    Custom made rigs are the best. I went for a £60 metal, build it yourself rig, from Ebay. Quite sturdy and suits me just fine lol.

    Go karting is fun also. Ive been karting before and was fast. Its miles from where I stay though.
     
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  13. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    The way I trail brake is, I go full on the brake pedal then slowly ease pressure as I start to turn in. Releasing pedal before the apex.
     
  14. 8l23ub

    8l23ub

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  15. F4H Super GT

    F4H Super GT Premium

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    One tip I would give is to focus a lot on corner exit speed. When I watch the top guys, the main difference I'm seeing between them and us mere mortals is how quickly they get on the power out of corners. This then gains them tenths up the following straight.

    Not only do you need to think about where to brake and where to apex but also where exactly in the corner you should get on the power. You'd be amazed how much quicker you can get by being on the power 0.05s earlier on some corners.
     
  16. Stotty

    Stotty Premium

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    That was a really good race :)

    I haven't raced with a wheel for over a year, and even when I did, I was a second or so off the top times... but I raced at that level for well over 10 years, so I'll have a bash at giving you some feedback.... I'll qualify everything below with the following... Much as we try, most people will never get to be Aliens... no matter how much practice, that last fraction of talent/hand-eye coordination just doesn't allow the final jump.

    Overall, your driving is pretty decent, and it may just be that particular track, but I did notice one thing watching that video....

    [​IMG]

    Consistently in turns 5 &10, and sometimes in turns 6 &11, you could carry much more speed through the corner.

    Currently, you're braking pretty much in a straight line, and then often using a down-shift to rotate the car in to the corner. But in doing this you're over rotating the car a lot of the time, scrubbing speed and creating too narrow an entry. Then you're picking up the throttle before the apex to get the speed back up and push the car back on line.

    Try not using the extra downshift. It's a good technique to have in your locker as a back up - if you're slightly over the limit on entry, you're not going to make the apex in to a slower corner (turn 1). Here, you need that fraction more rotation. But it doesn't help for the most part in medium/fast corners.

    To begin, try to take more entry speed, and let the car roll to the apex on a trailing throttle with less steering angle... then pick up the throttle at the apex.... the line should be one, smooth, curve. If you're on the gas significantly before the apex, you haven't carried enough speed on entry.

    Once you learn to do this consistently, you can then start to leave your braking later, carry even more entry speed, but use trail braking to reduce the understeer that would naturally result from going in too fast on a trailing throttle.

    It will probably take you some time to 'un-learn' the downshift habit, One thing you could try is to download a fast qualifying lap ghost and spend some time studying it and then chasing it... see how much faster they are through the corner and try to follow their lines.

    Hope this helps... and good luck :)
     
  17. stpatty

    stpatty

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  18. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    I did see the adapter but it’s £50 so I would rather spend a bit more than upgrade an old steering wheel and pedals. The G29 must surely have come on a bit in competitiveness since the DFGT. Maybe not?
    I can see that people may use a glitch to get them faster lap times but then when they get to the official events such as the one at the start of the game, no one has any glitch to use.
    It’s a level playing field again once they all get there and are all limited to the Thrustmaster T GT. The spec for that steering wheel claims it is specifically tailored to GT Sport to provide the most accurate input adjustments at the fastest speed possible.
    It’s a very hefty price. Id say that expensive wheels like that or fanatec setups into into the thousands definitely make for far better lap times. The amount of adjustments you can make to a fanatec system setup using the software is out of this world.
    Tailor made to the individual. Tailor made lap times. I believe that with the official Thrustmaster T GT all those dials mean you can adjust each item like traction control, brake bias etc individually. It’s a right bastard having to cycle through the lot on my wheel. Talk about having to take your eyes off the road.
    Ill lay down some figures now. I’m currently high group C. Mixed bag of positions finished
    in per race. Depending on luck. I just about reach B territory then drop again and I can’t wait to get there because I hope the racers are more clean.
    I’m aware of the latest trick of gently driving into the rear corner of the car in front causing them to spin out. People are doing it left right and centre to me and others. No penalties. System needs changing.
    I was in class C with the occasional B racer at the ‘blue’ official championship pre season in those Mazda touring cars. I got a best lap of just over 2 minutes.
    They then decided to list my time as 2.04. One poor sod had 2.40. They really messed something up with the programming tonight. Comments were WTF and Thanks for messing up the qualifying! I saw only very slightly better lap times than my own very best lap of 1.58 all race. I’ve not raced with players any faster than 2 seconds better than my lap times. No ones anywhere near the top 10.
    I’ve come across players in group B with lap times 3 seconds slower than my own pb. I’ve reached the conclusion that fastest lap time’s mean very little unless you can drive all race very neatly and be consistent. I watch others make mistakes and half the time I can go up between 5 - 10 positions sometimes.
    What kart circuit have you raced at?
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2020
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  19. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    You are 2.8 seconds faster than my fastest lap time of 2.06.630 at that event. I was shown that my optimum lap time could have been a 2.05.800, had I got every best sector on my best lap.

    I ran too wide into turn 2 loosing me time.

    You had it right.

    I ran too wide on the exit of turn 9, thinking it was straighter and therefore gentler and faster on exit when, instead I was having to now diagonally go back across, again wasting time.

    You had it right.

    I entered turn 10 wider than you, using the green/grey tarmac as I had seen others do. I then exited turn 10 with more speed using more kerb carrying more speed. Thus making the corner straighter. Maybe I was faster this time as I was on the absolute turning limit.

    I again wasted time by exiting turn 12 a lot wider than I needed to and having to cut back across diagonally to the chicane. The rest was similar to my lap.

    Also at times I ran on to the almost entirely invisible artificial ski slope material on the exit of the chicane. No replays show anyone using that but it’s there if you’re not completely straightened up on throttle during exit. Grip levels on it are fine. Better than the Astro turf. Have a drive by it slowly. It’s there but only visible in tiny patches.

     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2020
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  20. TJC_69

    TJC_69

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    In comparison of the DFGT to the G29, i'd have to agree it's better for sure. Better pedals are important. I was quite handy on the DFGT on GT5 as I recall. I was 1.5 seconds faster on it than the pad.

    You can adjust the fuel/bb info with the up and down button, and use the red wheel to adjust the settings. It's still somewhat awkward though, compared to a TGT.

    There's dirty driving in A/S and ive even seen A+ guys getting a little rowdy now and again. GTs pinball physics are a weird way to have a driving game. But I guess we're stuck with them (sigh).

    I think my speed is firmly in DR A territory. I think practice is all you would need to go higher though.

    I wonder if more expensive wheel sets do make you faster also. I'm just happy to have what ive got for now though.

    I went karting in a small outdoor track in the northeast of Scotland. Not a well known place unfortunately.

    In terms of increasing speed, I guess it's just analyse analyse practice practice. I'm still getting faster. And the OP is a little faster than me too :lol:
     
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  21. meekrab

    meekrab

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    He's driven 30x as much as me... oh to have that free time. :drool:
     
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  22. Edd1982

    Edd1982

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    I get on with a wheel far better than a pad. I’m 2 years behind most people on this game, so I definitely need to know every part of handling characteristic and circuit layout, camber etc a lot more than I currently do.
    I also really must save a replay of any slightly faster laps I get and keep watching my racing lines and the racing lines of others when they gain more ground than me in a race.
    I’m playing on GT sport a hell of a lot now but I can see that I’ll slowly wind down the amount of time I spend on it as I need to get on with jobs at home and I’ll be doing more carp fishing as the weather improves.
    I attended test days at Glan Y Gors and Llandow in Wales. Rissington, Shenington, Whilton Mill, Rye House and Clay Pigeon in England. I never raced but I did take part in one Easykart practice session at Clay Pigeon prior to the qualifying and race day.
     
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  23. forzacorza

    forzacorza

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    You are one of the better players in the game by far, nothing about that video says "slow". I'm not sure what could I teach you, I'm only trying to catch up with you!
     
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  24. VBR

    VBR Premium

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  25. XSquareStickIt

    XSquareStickIt

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    Apologies for the slow reply guys. I was really overwhelmed by the amount of responses I got; I hadn't been expecting such an outpouring of support, and outside material to pursue. Not to mention, I got a little star struck as well, what with the Minister of the Shadow Realm himself offering advice! Thank you all :bowdown:

    I'm really flattered to be told that I'm not slow. I just feel an overwhelming need to be better. As @watto79 has pointed out, I'm knocking on the door of A+ (or at least, I was. Last 2 days' of FIA races hadn't been very kind to me), but I feel that I don't have the pace of an A+ driver, or that I take too long to learn a new race combo. I know the realm of A+ is incredibly varied, but what usually comes to mind when I think of A+ driver pace is Super GT, David Perel, Zocker1990, and emreeree, all streamers who get close to within a second of the top ten times, for roughly two minutes of hot lapping. As of right now I'm another second off of that. I would love to say that I'm on a comparable level to a real life GT3 driver like David, hence why my obsession and head banging against a wall trying to find any more pace in my times. I also want to become a faster driver as I have this perception that most of the A+ drivers drive smarter and have more respect for the sport, with higher concentrations of unsavoury slime the farther down the DR ladder you go. I get that there are always exceptions, but I still want to be in the company of better drivers.

    I think being shown the KudosPrime pages of some of the ultimate players in the world has definitely put things into better perspective for me. 300 DAYS worth of driving time in a 2-ish year old game? I would puke if I drove that much.

    Thank you for your extremely detailed reply. I think this kind is exactly what I had wanted when I made the post. I will go back to banging my head against a wall again and I'll let you guys know if I manage to improve :)
     
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  26. breeminator

    breeminator

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    OTOH, I'm sure Kie has said more than once on his streams that Lightning never practices, or at least does very little practice.
     
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  27. barak181

    barak181

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    How long has Lightning been playing racing sims? And how long has he been one of the best? All that experience is a lot of practice, especially for someone of that talent level.
     
  28. watto79

    watto79

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    I'm pretty sure he's joking. Earlier last year GTPlanet did an article showing how much time on average the top players have spent in GTSport (as this is publicly available data). Lightning was actually a little lower than the average for the top 50 players, but still came out at 2.42 hours a day.

    https://www.gtplanet.net/top-gt-sport-players-hours-spent/

    Looking at his profile he spends a hell of a lot more time practising that actual Sport Mode racing.
     
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  29. LeGeNd-1

    LeGeNd-1 Premium

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    @XSquareStickIt first of all you are definitely not slow mate. I'm in the same speed ballpark as you are, around +2 secs off the top times on average, knocking on DR A+. I've been simracing for 20+ years now and any further progress is just very very slow. I've watched and followed every guide out there, played every racing game under the sun, watched every motorsport and onboard video. At some point, your baseline talent is the limiting factor and no amount of practice is going to change that asymptote. OK, if you practice 1000 laps you might beat an alien that only have practiced 5 laps, but then again that isn't a fair comparison is it?

    Fundamentally, at your current skill level, you are NOT missing any important techniques or skills. The difference between you and a top driver is simply in accuracy. They are able to brake just 2-3m later, get 10cm closer to the apex and get on the throttle 0.1 sec earlier. It translates to a 0.2 second difference per corner, but over a whole lap of 10 corners it becomes 2 seconds. He looks like a god, and you look like an idiot. But actually you're still very very fast compared to the average joe. Just that your intrinsic accuracy (or "talent") isn't quite the 0.00000001% of the population. And honestly, over the years I've learnt to be okay with that. As long as you're still having fun and you still beat your buddy when they come to your house playing split screen all is good :D Besides, I can't imagine sometimes how much of a slog it is to be an esports athlete in anything. If you ask the world tour participants when was the last time they turned out a lap just for fun, I bet you a lot of them wouldn't remember.

    This video illustrates my point very well.


    Actually Mik is a special case. Even among aliens he's a cut above the rest in terms of raw speed and how little practice he needs. According to his kudosprime he only has 80+ days of driving so far, much less than 300+ days of PR1_Fire. If you watch his streams, he beat Lewis Hamilton's time at Dragon Trail and Maggiore on first try. In the off season he signed up with meme manufacturers and still managed to win top splits with comparatively little practice. In the world tours other participants posted videos of him beating gold license tests in GT1/2 just within 1-2 tries (with a humble controller, no wheel for PS1 remember).

    https://www.kudosprime.com/gts/stats.php?profile=1325282

    Obviously I can't know if he practises a lot in the past or behind the scenes using another account, but I'm still fairly certain that with zero practice, on an unfamiliar car/track, Hizal will comfortably be faster than anyone in GT.
     
  30. Mr616

    Mr616

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    Yep, Driver61 is a great source of real racecraft/techniques that can be applied to GTS. A lot of great info on his channel, along with the others posted.
     
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