POLL - Do you think DR reset at SR C is fair?

[toddstar77]

I gave up caring about DR and SR a long time ago, just drive and race, I'll never be S/S so don't care about a few bumps here and there.

I've noticed that penalties seem to bring out the worst in people after unghosting, people seem desperate to minimise how many places they lose and start blatantly illegally blocking. IMO it would improve things if people who have served penalties didn't unghost until a bit after the exit from the first significant corner after the penalty zone. So this would be after the Ascari exit for Monza.

I reckon make the penalties be served through the pits, take them off the track onto pit lane, then they exit the pit lane like normal.... agree the ghosting car that just appears back solid on an apex sucks.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

DR is too easy to gain, a reset doesn't really hurt. On SF week I went from C to A+ in half a week by just doing a few races each day and I'm crap.

I would rather see SR removed so we race people at a similar pace. If the in race penalties were better that would be all that is needed.

 

[Tillbeast]

Think better penalty would be to for the game to take control of car at point near pit entrance ghost them and force them into a drive through, multiple times over a number of laps if multiple offenses happen on same lap. Cars coming out of ghosts and not moving from racing line are a big issue with current system. Until game can detect who is to blame there will always be a problem. Getting punted from behind into a car in front punting them off should not penalise you.

 

[dabz343]

It seems that PD/Sony do not hear much of what is said by their customers. The way I see it they base their decisions strictly on playerbase, unfortunately by doing so they keep the dirty and cheating drivers who game the system while losing the clean drivers.

If PD ignores customers and GTS turns into a haven for dirty drivers, then I will have to move on. I'm not one of those that have formed a tight group of friends over the years through previous titles so finding and racing clean with new drivers is the key to my enjoyment--plus I prefer meeting new drivers, friends are good but can get a bit repetitive.

PD may be a bit of a hermit, but I doubt Sony lacks comprehension of the lucrative underlying value of a quality player's network effect--especially if they want to continue their favorable status with the FIA.

Side note--DR/SR designation becomes meaningless when there is no care taken to ensure its functionality. I know it's a game, but operating a poor driver rating system within a community of enthusiasts creates unnecessary hurdles for enjoyment. You have to build a just and comprehensive system to ensure quality players are maintained.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I've read through this all and watched the video.

From what I see, the people that have not been careful and have had their DR reset are the ones complaining, while other who were careful say it's fine.

The SR system is meant to make you careful so it looks to be working as intended. Yes, Monza was a tough one. But @Haitauer , at the beginning of that video you blatantly ran into the rear of the leading car when you could have easily taken a line that would have avoided that contact. As stated, if you were already on thin ice, why not be more careful?

Without the severe consequence of losing DR, there is no consequence at all. I also wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that SR A is "cleaner". It may seem that way because people don't want to be bumped down even further. However, by virtue of an SR being at A, you know immediately that the driver is no stranger to heavy contact. How is that in any way cleaner?

 

[sundaydriving]

No, its not fair.

You're going to be matched with players that are not at your skill level giving you easy wins while demoralising your opponents until you get back to the DR and SR levels that match your current skills. Its a grind but it wont take long.

Experiencing a DR reset doesn't make you forget how to play the game.

 

[Haitauer]

I also wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that SR A is "cleaner". It may seem that way because people don't want to be bumped down even further. However, by virtue of an SR being at A, you know immediately that the driver is no stranger to heavy contact. How is that in any way cleaner?

Actually SR A is cleaner. This is due to many higher dr drivers in sr A are driving less aggressively as they would in sr99. Just today i returned to sr99 and right away found my self being bumbed all the time. Mostly just so i was able to stay on track and thus the one making the bumb doesnt even get a penalty, just a minor sr- he can passive during the rest of the race. But for this reason passes are a lot dirtier. Drivers dont respect the less than half a car when they should give room but do a "soft dive bomb" instead.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

DR resets are no deterrent to the ones for which the are meant. A win at all cost driver welcomes a reset for easier competition, although dropping SR is usually effective enough. The only thing the reset achieves is to hide them among the masses. Let them keep their DR and get matches against other DR.A DR.C drivers for fair competition, instead of mixing them between all the DR.B drivers.

The only ones DR resets hurt are those that get to race against DR resets.

In my experience SR.C is cleaner than SR.S

 

[Haitauer]

DR resets are no deterrent to the ones for which the are meant. A win at all cost driver welcomes a reset for easier competition, although dropping SR is usually effective enough. The only thing the reset achieves is to hide them among the masses. Let them keep their DR and get matches against other DR.A DR.C drivers for fair competition, instead of mixing them between all the DR.B drivers.

The only ones DR resets hurt are those that get to race against DR resets.

In my experience SR.C is cleaner than SR.S

Id also rather see a SR reset. Try winning a drA+/srD driver..

 

[Pigems]

The real question is, Why should a DR C and below get a free pass to have as much contact as they want without losing DR points?

 

[breeminator]

DR is too easy to gain, a reset doesn't really hurt. On SF week I went from C to A+ in half a week by just doing a few races each day and I'm crap.

I know it's British to be modest, but describing yourself as crap is a bit excessive. You're in the top <1%. 60% of players have a DR in the 1-2200 range, so anyone with a DR above 2200 is above average.

 

[MordFustang88]

I was A+ S, and because of a bunch of people ramming me and the fact they couldnt stand im faster than them, i got reset. I try to race as clean as possible, but people just think if they cant be as fast as i can, then just ram me out of the race, or divebomb...even in A+ S lobbies...

 

[fastone371]

I was A+ S, and because of a bunch of people ramming me and the fact they couldnt stand im faster than them, i got reset. I try to race as clean as possible, but people just think if they cant be as fast as i can, then just ram me out of the race, or divebomb...even in A+ S lobbies...

In my experience since I am DR B SR S I find it very difficult to get close enough to DR A+ drivers to hit them, how were they even catching you to hit you? Were you entering races without qualifying?

 

[Voodoovaj]

The real question is, Why should a DR C and below get a free pass to have as much contact as they want without losing DR points?

I don't think that happens anymore, does it?

Actually SR A is cleaner. This is due to many higher dr drivers in sr A are driving less aggressively as they would in sr99. Just today i returned to sr99 and right away found my self being bumbed all the time. Mostly just so i was able to stay on track and thus the one making the bumb doesnt even get a penalty, just a minor sr- he can passive during the rest of the race. But for this reason passes are a lot dirtier. Drivers dont respect the less than half a car when they should give room but do a "soft dive bomb" instead.

It's a false condition. It's cleaner because there's no racing happening. Good drivers will follow the leader with the goal to be clean, not to win. That's not a race. Don't fool yourself into thinking that it is.

As you stated yourself, high DR drivers are anxious to get the heck out of DR A so they do a race or two to get themselves back to SR S, where the competition really exists. I've been there myself. There's no need to be aggressive because a win isn't the goal. As offensive as this may sound, at the times when I have been relegated to SR A, or even low SR S, I just relax because the race tends to be a cakewalk. The times when it isn't is when another high ranking driver has been punted down there with me, and then it's a cake walk for the two of us (even three sometimes), but we don't really race. They don't race me. I don't race them. They give me corners and I give them corners. It's more track day than race.

The goal is to get back to SR S, not to win.

 

[MordFustang88]

In my experience since I am DR B SR S I find it very difficult to get close enough to DR A+ drivers to hit them, how were they even catching you to hit you? Were you entering races without qualifying?

My qualifing times put me almost always mid pack, but my race pace is better than my qualifing pace; i can run consistent lap times during races that equal my qualifing times, which makes me faster than most people on track. I can keep my cool, but others cant. I had better and cleaner races in lower rated lobbies than in higher rated. A+ S doesnt always mean they are fast and clean...

 

[breeminator]

My qualifing times put me almost always mid pack, but my race pace is better than my qualifing pace; i can run consistent lap times during races that equal my qualifing times, which makes me faster than most people on track. I can keep my cool, but others cant. I had better and cleaner races in lower rated lobbies than in higher rated. A+ S doesnt always mean they are fast and clean...

You qualified with 1:49.5 for Monza last week. Even if you could consistently lap 1:49.5 in the race (and why would anyone be able to do that and not be able to lap faster in qualifying without the weight of fuel?), that's not A+ pace.

 

[MordFustang88]

You qualified with 1:49.5 for Monza last week. Even if you could consistently lap 1:49.5 in the race (and why would anyone be able to do that and not be able to lap faster in qualifying without the weight of fuel?), that's not A+ pace.

I didnt even bother qualifying for monza, cause i was trying to get DR back, by qualifying worse, start back in the pack and gain positions. I mostly finished third or second those couple of races that i did. My race pace was around low :48
Im starting to not even bother with GTS anymore because of the nervous ramming people. Just look at my DR/SR history

 

[breeminator]

I didnt even bother qualifying for monza, cause i was trying to get DR back, by qualifying worse, start back in the pack and gain positions. I mostly finished third or second those couple of races that i did. My race pace was around low :48
Im starting to not even bother with GTS anymore because of the nervous ramming people. Just look at my DR/SR history

I hope you are able to not get too upset at me for saying this... First of all, you are faster than me, so I'm not being a "skill snob" in saying this. I think you have to consider that some drivers might be better than you at avoiding trouble on the track. I have the same frustrations as you, but I know that a better driver would deal with the difficult situations better than I do, so although I might feel that other drivers are the primary cause of collisions I'm involved in, I have to conclude that at the same time I need to work on becoming better at dealing with them. When I watch people like Kie25 and F4H_Super_GT on youtube, I know they are managing to avoid collisions in some situations where other drivers drive incorrectly, and I would not cope with those situations as well as they do. I think accepting that this is the case, and thinking about ways to improve, is the first step in getting better at reducing the % of potential collisions that become actual collisions.

BTW I'm not sure focusing on places gained is the best way to get your DR back, I don't know if it is taken into account at all or if it's just the position you finish in. I've been working on the assumption that only finishing position matters, so you should always qualify as high up as possible, but I could be wrong.

 

[Pigems]

I didnt even bother qualifying for monza, cause i was trying to get DR back, by qualifying worse, start back in the pack and gain positions. I mostly finished third or second those couple of races that i did. My race pace was around low :48
Im starting to not even bother with GTS anymore because of the nervous ramming people. Just look at my DR/SR history

Unfortunately that’s not how DR gains work, you have to finish ahead of everyone with equal or higher rating than yourself to make any amount of points. So starting at the back isn’t really the best way to gain DR back, you’re better off to qualify if that’s your goal.

@Voodoovaj Im not sure if the lower DR drivers still get relaxed rules or not. @Sven Jurgens would be the guy to ask about that. I was more just asking in regards to the thread title/pole.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

DR is entirely based on finishing position and the algorithm is well known.

From any driver you place in front off (DNF as well) you get a base 80 points adjusted by the difference in DR.
If that driver has higher DR than you, you get an extra DR difference / 500 added to the 80 points with a maximum of 160
If that driver has lower DR than you, that difference / 500 gets subtracted from the 80 points with a minimum of 1 left.
It's a zero sum calculation between all the drivers in a room. Only finish position counts.

Lower DR drivers get more relaxed rules, and/or are ruled in favor off when contact occurs between different DR levels. Yet they also have less to lose, can't lose what you don't have. (There are no debts in GT Sport) It's the same as giving speeding tickets to the ultra rich, pointless. Resetting a DR.D driver has no effect.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Well, DR reset would be well deserved, if the SR system was flawless. Sadly it's not, and some situations can create some stupidly dramatic SR drops from being bump drafted or stuff like that. Remove that and the game sometimes blaming you for being killed and there's no complaint to be made if you get a reset. Both scores are pretty much meaningless right now anyway.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I am not one to say the system is flawless. I have been saying that the penalty times for severe impact should be increased.

HOWEVER

I also think that the vast majority of people who complain about the system need to get out and play more organized sports, the kind with referees and judgement calls on legality and fairness. Since I was a child, there has been a single constant mantra with every sport I have ever played:

"Play the whistle"

In other words. you know the rules but you play hard and you let the referee (in our case the penalty system) make the calls. You don't like the call? Too bad. Think the other guy did you wrong? Too bad. You want to proclaim your innocence? Too bad. Once a call is made, it's done and over with.

Both scores are pretty much meaningless right now anyway.

I couldn't disagree more. There is a VAST difference in competition level when I drop to SR A. Matchmaking is also very different. I am trying my best to get back to an A+ because the matchmaking and quality of drivers at level is much more enjoyable IMHO.

It may be meaningless for you, but it's not meaningless across the board.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I am not one to say the system is flawless. I have been saying that the penalty times for severe impact should be increased.

HOWEVER

I also think that the vast majority of people who complain about the system need to get out and play more organized sports, the kind with referees and judgement calls on legality and fairness. Since I was a child, there has been a single constant mantra with every sport I have ever played:

"Play the whistle"

In other words. you know the rules but you play hard and you let the referee (in our case the penalty system) make the calls. You don't like the call? Too bad. Think the other guy did you wrong? Too bad. You want to proclaim your innocence? Too bad. Once a call is made, it's done and over with.



I couldn't disagree more. There is a VAST difference in competition level when I drop to SR A. Matchmaking is also very different. I am trying my best to get back to an A+ because the matchmaking and quality of drivers at level is much more enjoyable IMHO.

It may be meaningless for you, but it's not meaningless across the board.

SR makes a big difference, DR not so much. Well perhaps for FIA races there are enough participants for it to make a difference. You either have only one room at SR.S or 2 depending on the time of day. In prime time the cut off seems to be around 20K DR. A+/S to B/S room and B/S to D/S room, most of the day it's A+/S to D/S.

Yet when your SR drops below 90 as a high level player, you are now matched with the 'left overs' of the 90-99 SR room. That's how you get those very unmatched A/S (80-89) plus D/S (90-99) rooms with nothing in between. And so it continuous on downwards. You might be 75 SR in SR.A, yet get matched with the left overs of a higher SR bracket, thus get to start on pole as A+/A in front of D/S players. You are the room filler. It's a fundamental flaw in matchmaking which has never been addressed.

Your high DR makes you the first candidate to fill up the empty spots in a higher SR room where the lowest DR drivers of that SR range are. It would be more fair to first add the lower SR, high DR players, then re-order the rooms on DR. So A+/A starts with A+/S and a B/S driver that would have starred last in that room, would now be on pole in the slower room.

 

[sturk0167]

Get a second account and don't worry about it. DR only matters if you're trying to attain some personal goal. Other than that, who gives a 🤬?
I'm probably in the minority, but I'm fine with racing anybody from any SR/DR level.
Don't even display our DR/SR letters in the pre-race screen. That would be cool. 👍
I don't think video games are meant to be taken quite so seriously. Try to have some fun.

 

[NevilleNobody]

I've been a victim of this a few times, it is immensely frustrating. I finally got to DR-A last week and then my SR slipped to C and i was reset.

Given the problems with the penalty system, this seems overly harsh. it should be way, way harder to get to SR S and way, way harder to lose SR than it is now. There's too many big swings.

Last night i was racing with a guy who was UP MY REAR END for almost every lap for two races at brands. he barely touched me even once, i check his stats and he has been reset 5 times. Now come on, that's a bit harsh on a guy that clearly tries to avoid contact.

I get that I hit folks by accident sometimes but man, if you don't stay close to the guy in front you get mugged from behind too so it's lose/lose at times.

Frankly it's not the end of the world, at DR A i can only compete at a few tracks, at 15,000 points I can compete almost anywhere so whatever.

 

[Pigems]

I am not one to say the system is flawless. I have been saying that the penalty times for severe impact should be increased.

HOWEVER

I also think that the vast majority of people who complain about the system need to get out and play more organized sports, the kind with referees and judgement calls on legality and fairness. Since I was a child, there has been a single constant mantra with every sport I have ever played:

"Play the whistle"

In other words. you know the rules but you play hard and you let the referee (in our case the penalty system) make the calls. You don't like the call? Too bad. Think the other guy did you wrong? Too bad. You want to proclaim your innocence? Too bad. Once a call is made, it's done and over with.



I couldn't disagree more. There is a VAST difference in competition level when I drop to SR A. Matchmaking is also very different. I am trying my best to get back to an A+ because the matchmaking and quality of drivers at level is much more enjoyable IMHO.

It may be meaningless for you, but it's not meaningless across the board.

As someone who spent their entire childhood and young adult life playing team sports, I know this all to well. Even in the pro’s the refs are very bad. It’s exactly why I gave all that up and took up golf. Where no one can mess it up for me but me, and, I get to be my own ref.

 

[GT_Alex74]

I couldn't disagree more. There is a VAST difference in competition level when I drop to SR A. Matchmaking is also very different. I am trying my best to get back to an A+ because the matchmaking and quality of drivers at level is much more enjoyable IMHO.

I was more thinking about how easy it is to grind your SR back up and how some notoriously dirty drivers are still able to maintain themselves at the highest values. Lobbies below SR S surely got some outrageous drivers lined up, as you really have to put some effort to stay long term in SR A or below.

As for DR, it's now a complete mess with people only doing FIAs and dailies on different accounts, and some tanking their DR on purpose to take advantage of the broken FIA point system. And you get people who only do daily races and farm them to the bone, getting up to A+ while not being that fast.

 

[Voodoovaj]

As for DR, it's now a complete mess with people only doing FIAs and dailies on different accounts, and some tanking their DR on purpose to take advantage of the broken FIA point system. And you get people who only do daily races and farm them to the bone, getting up to A+ while not being that fast.

That's a pretty pessimistic view of it.

As for DR, it's now a complete mess with people only doing FIAs and dailies on different accounts...

Different accounts are really only a bonus for people who REALLY have a shot at FIA glory. Beyond that, they are pointless (no pun intended). There is no point in preserving your DR unless you are top notch and want to stay there. For instance, I am normally a low A+, so when I do FIA races, I'm a back-marker because the room is filled with super-stars.

...and some tanking their DR on purpose to take advantage of the broken FIA point system.

As for tanking, I did it as well to try and get the Schumacher trophy sooner rather than later, it didn't really help. At the end of the day, if someone feels better about themselves because they are an A+ driver winning races as a DR D, so be it. That's a personality flaw, not a systemic flaw within the game. Personally, I prefer to win against my peers. I "could" hover at a mid DR A and have easier FIA races, but what's the point. Unless you're one of the best with a shot at going to the championships, the FIA races are just another race. People will kid themselves into making more of them, but that's not the system's fault.

And you get people who only do daily races and farm them to the bone, getting up to A+ while not being that fast.

That is literally "laugh out loud" material. To get to A+, you need to win against high caliber competition. It is a diminishing returns game. The higher your DR, the less easily you accumulate points. For the last few weeks, I have been winning and also on the podium more often than not. I am hovering just under the 50,000 point line to A+ because about 10-20% of the time, I finish out of the top 5, and that is a big blow to my gains. I'm confident I will get my A+ back, but it's work.

I highly doubt that anyone without some actual ability is getting to and staying at A+.

 

[Veinz]

Actually SR A is cleaner. This is due to many higher dr drivers in sr A are driving less aggressively as they would in sr99. Just today i returned to sr99 and right away found my self being bumbed all the time. Mostly just so i was able to stay on track and thus the one making the bumb doesnt even get a penalty, just a minor sr- he can passive during the rest of the race. But for this reason passes are a lot dirtier. Drivers dont respect the less than half a car when they should give room but do a "soft dive bomb" instead.

No way in hell it's cleaner than S. Drop to A and below and you mostly race people who are prone to losing SR for whatever reason.

 

[kilesa4568]

Im starting to not even bother with GTS anymore because of the nervous ramming people. Just look at my DR/SR history

I looked at them. You may be a prime example of someone who isn't as spatially aware as they think they are...

it should be way, way harder to get to SR S and way, way harder to lose SR than it is now.

SR is easy to obtain because it's easy for an individual to drive clean, and for the same reason, it has to be just as easy to lose.

It's the one thing (other than the car) we have almost full control over so it's really hard to have sympathy for someone who gets a reset.