Poll: Do you want real Endurance Racing back in GT6?

[dissectional1]

Hi guys, I've been checking in and out gtplanet and keeping an eye on the topics posted here, though I just recently registered and this is my first post around here.
I'd like to note something that nobody seem to have mentioned regarding Endurance races: I think that the main reason why they're gone from GT6 (in the series conventional way, anyways) is mostly due to PD being able to blame it on the PS3's hardware limitation, if push came to shove. Think about it: With the new physics models, the machine has a whole lot more of calculations to make, so if they mantained the normal (series long) formula it would get pretty heavy by the 12-24 h long mark. Sure, there are hardcore racing fans that will set up online lobbies to do stuff like that, confirming it to be possible, but those are my 2 cents on the subject.
I've enjoyed the normal endurances throughtout the whole GT series, even though the 24 h ones didn't fall into that category and quite honestly if it weren't for B-Spec with the time warping abilitty I wouldn't have touched them, but sure Grand Valley 300Km (or was it 300 miles? Can't remember), Tsukuba and so on were a hell lot of fun

Cheers

 

[bigbear]

Welcome!

The one to four hour races were always my favorite events. I've been hoping they would return with B-spec. When Mid-Field was added I did a one hour endurance race there in arcade mode that was lots of fun. It would have been even better with tire wear, fuel consumption, and pit stops. Still hoping

 

[VBR]

I don't like endurance racing, but I voted Yes for all the guys & gals who do like it.

 

[Fanapryde]

Absolutely yes.
Better AI would be nice too...

 

[Johnnypenso]

PD would have heaps of data showing exactly what people played

no doubt few people played endurance races so they took them out

GT6 wants to be more 'inclusive' of players of all kinds and all skill levels so it wants to remove the stuff that most people did not play

PD removing these hardcore elements to make GT6 appeal to noobs as it were, makes sense

Actually we do have access to a huge amount of data through PSN Trophies and I think you're on the right track

That's the lowest level of completion for any driving series or series of events. It also appears to me, that if you go through all the trophies on the list and look at the ones with the lowest levels of completion, those are the categories that PD either eliminated (enduro, rally, special events, various driving academys, training BSpec drivers etc.) or tweaked to make easier (ASpec, license tests, AI in general etc.)

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

The data on the races from GT5 is miss leading though. That horrible XP system they used made it far to difficult to unlock the 24 hour races. I actually wanted to run the 24hr Nurburgring race just once with the weather and time but I lost interest before I managed to reach LV40 same with Lemans both races were still locked when I quit playing. I did come back shortly before GT6 and race some of those high paying seasonals and may have unlocked Lemans at that point but had no interest in driving it by then

The 9hr Tsukuba race on the other hand is unlocked but I do not ever want to drive that boring race even the 4hr one is horribly boring. So while it is true that most users would not have ran those races even if they were accessible the XP made that number of people even smaller. I don't think any of my friends ran any of the latter ones and only a few who cheated even unlocked them. I think all of us went at least as far as the Indy 500 though.

 

[nowcontrol]

PSN Trophies only accounts for the people that have visited the site and entered their PSN ID into that database ... it's only a fraction of the data that could be available worldwide.

In GT5 I did the all A-spec races up to and including the 4hr @ Nurb, and I only skipped the two 24hr races in B-spec but that was only because I thought they might drive me crazy wanting them to be over with and never could find a right time to start them.

 

[regnar]

I can see where certain features in the game might Be left out due to lack of popularity, but can't imagine in a game that is touting physics that tyre and fuel wear weren't considered popular enough to include. It's there in online mode, so it can't be due to hardware limitations of the PS3. There is some other reason for these feature missing.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The data on the races from GT5 is miss leading though. That horrible XP system they used made it far to difficult to unlock the 24 hour races. I actually wanted to run the 24hr Nurburgring race just once with the weather and time but I lost interest before I managed to reach LV40 same with Lemans both races were still locked when I quit playing. I did come back shortly before GT6 and race some of those high paying seasonals and may have unlocked Lemans at that point but had no interest in driving it by then

The 9hr Tsukuba race on the other hand is unlocked but I do not ever want to drive that boring race even the 4hr one is horribly boring. So while it is true that most users would not have ran those races even if they were accessible the XP made that number of people even smaller. I don't think any of my friends ran any of the latter ones and only a few who cheated even unlocked them. I think all of us went at least as far as the Indy 500 though.

Agreed it is misleading, but Endurance was still dropped and it still looks to me like they just went down the trophy list and skimmed off most of the low% items. They must have had a reason for it and it fits hand in hand with the overall dumbing down of the career mode and catering the game to more casual users.

PSN Trophies only accounts for the people that have visited the site and entered their PSN ID into that database ... it's only a fraction of the data that could be available worldwide.

In GT5 I did the all A-spec races up to and including the 4hr @ Nurb, and I only skipped the two 24hr races in B-spec but that was only because I thought they might drive me crazy wanting them to be over with and never could find a right time to start them.

It's 450,000 people. How big of a sample do you want? It's more than enough to be representative.

 

[TurismoBad]

I have a memory of me attempting endurance races in GT4 - this memories consists of severe fingers pain, headache and my mom turning off the PS2 with 2 hours left on Le Mans.


So...

I voted yes but there would have to be some changes.

First of all pause/resume is a must. What I would prefer though is pause and resume in whatever moment I like - no waiting for pit stop etc.

Then we'll need MUCH better AI because while in endurance racing the strategy is important I want to race my opponents if they happen to be on my way.

Currently available mechanical damage would be great but I want more.

Team radio.

2nd car from my team - credits for Bob and me.

And finally a different universe where all this is actually in consideration at PD office

 

[Pseudopod]

considering how easy it is to add endurance races to the career mode, there is no reason to vote no even if it isn't your kind of thing.

I don't think there is any need to say "but only if you can pause it", because they already realized that in GT5 and patched it in

 

[FS7]

What I really want is to have all options available in arcade mode so that I could setup endurance races with whatever car/track I want.
It makes no sense to restrict certain options to online-only.

 

[CSLACR]

I gotta say, with the way it currently is/was racing AI for a long time, is really, really boring. Forecasting a close endurance race is harder than pulling teeth. With good AI, and removing the terrible pit strategies the AI employ, I could enjoy endurance races. But I'm hardcore, and the other 99% of players aren't.

 

[05XR8]

Endurance races should have options. Now that we can control the Speed of time in Arcade Mode and 99 laps, there should have been no reason to exclude it in GT6. 24Hour/12hr/9hr/2hr CAREER MODE races should have had a slider for time.
I miss the MX-5 events. In saying that, a One Make race should be an option for every car in the game. As mentioned above, AI must improve first. Career Mode needs an overhaul again, to accommodate Endurance racing.

 

[FS7]

One Make race should be an option for every car in the game.

Agreed.
Especially taking into account that in GT5 we could setup custom one-make races with any car at any track, with standing starts, mechanical damage & fuel/fire wear. It makes no sense why PD removed that.

 

[ZZ-II]

If course i want Endurance races Back! But driving 24h races without the possibility to let B-Spec Bob driving a part of the race is a no go ( like in GT4 ).

Nevertheless, races like 300km Grand Valley up to 4h Nürburgring are lots of fun though it's of course easy to win with the correct car. But every player can make these races harder with choosing a car that has less LP's.

 

[05XR8]

If course i want Endurance races Back! But driving 24h races without the possibility to let B-Spec Bob driving a part of the race is a no go ( like in GT4 ).

Nevertheless, races like 300km Grand Valley up to 4h Nürburgring are lots of fun though it's of course easy to win with the correct car. But every player can make these races harder with choosing a car that has less LP's.

And PD need to implement more "zeros and ones" to compute the type car, tyre type, suspension and gears used and what PP the user car is. Then combat that with AI cars at the same level. Why tune your '69 Nissan 1600/510 as a Trans Am replica and you can't versus same era type cars, let alone One Make races based on the car you created?

 

[Imari]

Agreed it is misleading, but Endurance was still dropped and it still looks to me like they just went down the trophy list and skimmed off most of the low% items. They must have had a reason for it and it fits hand in hand with the overall dumbing down of the career mode and catering the game to more casual users.

Although as with all statistics, you have to be careful what you're reading into it. Do people not like endurance races? Or do they just not like Polyphony's brand of unrealistic 24 hour solo marathons that you can't pause to play any other part of the game?

I think I completed the 9 hours of whatever it was, and then I gave up because I'm not enough of a masochist to want to go round and round for 24 hours by myself. And I seriously doubted by ability to find enough free time in a week to be able to do that in between the racing series I was taking part in.

Low completion percentage tells them that there's at least one race in the series that people just couldn't handle. But given that it varied from ~2 hours to 24 hours that doesn't say much. If they had actual data on how much people liked 60/90/120/240 minute races, that might be relevant. Or maybe longer races that were properly set up so that they weren't a total commitment that blocked all else.

If only they had had some way of testing out new styles of races to see if they were popular. I'd think they could have some sort of fortnightly update of new experimental races, and then they could check how well those were received. That would be quite a nifty idea. They could maybe call them "Periodicals".

That seems totally revolutionary and not in any way similar to something that exists currently in both GT5 and GT6.

 

[JayOTT]

I understand what they were trying to do with the 'endurance races' in GT6, as I don't think there's many people keen on driving a 24 hour race against the AI, even with mid-race saves. But 24 minutes was too far in the opposite direction to the point of making the races feel like prolonged sprints with a pit-stop or two attached. Removing the traditional Grand Valley Speedway endurance was a further kick in the teeth.

Personally, I would want a video game endurance race to last long enough to feel like an endurance race, but not so last long as to drag on long after you've grown sick of driving the same track over and over, and long after your finishing position is locked in barring a freak occurrence. With that in mind, If I was in charge of making the events in GT6, this is how I would've made the S class races;

650 PP normal cars: 35 laps of Willow Springs, 25 laps of Ascari.

650 PP race cars: 25 laps of Silverstone, Apricot Hill 1 hour.

Super GT: 40 laps of Brands Hatch, Suzuka 250.

GT3 cars: Spa 2 hour, Nurburgring 2 hour.

LMP cars: Grand Valley 300, Le Mans 2 hour.

And I also would've thrown in the FGT championship as the final S class event, with races scaled to 25% real life F1 distance.

Tyre/Fuel Usage: x1 or x2 (which one would you prefer?)

FGT championship aside, the shorter races would take at least 45 minutes to complete, and there's five races there that reach the 1.5-2 hour mark. The Spa race would be accurate to the cars in the real Spa 24 hour race too.

Stuff like this, and the rubberband AI with spaced out rolling starts, make me wish I knew how to mod games and/or this game was available on PC so it could be modded.

 

[Enzo_P1_GTR]

Yes if a capital Y

 

[CSLACR]

Although as with all statistics, you have to be careful what you're reading into it. Do people not like endurance races? Or do they just not like Polyphony's brand of unrealistic 24 hour solo marathons that you can't pause to play any other part of the game?

I think I completed the 9 hours of whatever it was, and then I gave up because I'm not enough of a masochist to want to go round and round for 24 hours by myself. And I seriously doubted by ability to find enough free time in a week to be able to do that in between the racing series I was taking part in.

Low completion percentage tells them that there's at least one race in the series that people just couldn't handle. But given that it varied from ~2 hours to 24 hours that doesn't say much. If they had actual data on how much people liked 60/90/120/240 minute races, that might be relevant. Or maybe longer races that were properly set up so that they weren't a total commitment that blocked all else.

If only they had had some way of testing out new styles of races to see if they were popular. I'd think they could have some sort of fortnightly update of new experimental races, and then they could check how well those were received. That would be quite a nifty idea. They could maybe call them "Periodicals".

That seems totally revolutionary and not in any way similar to something that exists currently in both GT5 and GT6.

Right, but would PD consider all of that? Or just say "nobody does endurance" *snip* ?

A couple things are gone from GT5 with no real explanation. A couple things are always gone from previous titles, things that we all usually like.

I like endurance, but if it's going to be more than 2-3 hours I need a better AI plan, so I can actually race. And more than 4-5 hours I need to save and do other stuff, like you said.

 

[DSkywalker01]

The outcome of this poll was obvious, but as I've said on countless threads, we don't represent GT's target market, but rather an ultra-hardcore 1%. If this was put on IGN, I'd probably expect more people to say no than yes, with the comments underneath the article asking why the hell anyone would want to drive for more than half an hour.

The fact that gtplanet members want endurance racing doesn't make it a no-brainer for Polyphony Digital.

I would argue that a poll on IGN would be almost entirely irrelevant as their audience is a bunch of FPS fans who don't play racing games. GTP is a far more accurate gauge of the playerbase, and the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[FS7]

Although as with all statistics, you have to be careful what you're reading into it. Do people not like endurance races? Or do they just not like Polyphony's brand of unrealistic 24 hour solo marathons that you can't pause to play any other part of the game?

I think it was a mistake to remove endurance, PD needed to make adjustments/improvements, not remove them.

In real life endurance races drivers are not allowed to drive more than 4hrs straight, so by that logic endurance races in video games should not be longer than 4hrs unless developers come up with a way for players to team up with others online or over lan, or team up locally on the same console so that every player participating will have the win & prize in their game save.

 

[SCER]

I would argue that a poll on IGN would be almost entirely irrelevant as their audience is a bunch of FPS fans who don't play racing games. GTP is a far more accurate gauge of the playerbase, and the numbers speak for themselves.

FPS players are 90% of gamers, and because they buy games like GT and play them for a bit before leaving them on the shelf they constitute most of PD's target market. Cynical but it's true.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

There could have been an option for us to choose endurance race duration. Start with the 24 Mins then give us the option of choosing from 2h increments. With the longer races the payout and value of the prize car could be adjusted to reflect the commitment.

The resolution is simple and it would please all players.

 

[SCER]

There could have been an option for us to choose endurance race duration. Start with the 24 Mins then give us the option of choosing from 2h increments. With the longer races the payout and value of the prize car could be adjusted to reflect the commitment.

The resolution is simple and it would please all players.

Makes the most sense, the fact that PD don't seem to have considered it suggests to me that us enthusiasts at gtplanet are almost an invisible minority.

 

[PJTierney]

Only if it comes with proper working AI parameters.

This is a pretty valid point as the AI and race format is pretty weak in single player events.

Almost every race consists of you you starting 30+ seconds behind the leader with the opposition spread out to the point where you'll only overtake them one at a time.

In addition, the AI drivers are never really battling with you either; unless you make a mistake or are down on power there is little to no chance of them making an attempt to repass you. You are not "racing" in these events at all, merely passing cars until there are none left (and lets' not discuss the fact that the leader will drastically slow down on the final lap to allow you to catch up).

I already have my Endurance races by competing with real people online and it's a very enjoyable experience as they're much more competitive and dynamic than anything single player events can provide.

I am sure there is a large group of players that enjoy the offline aspect of this game, but adding more/longer events is not going to get me back into that aspect of GT6.

 

[FS7]

There could have been an option for us to choose endurance race duration. Start with the 24 Mins then give us the option of choosing from 2h increments. With the longer races the payout and value of the prize car could be adjusted to reflect the commitment.

The resolution is simple and it would please all players.

You should vote on this suggestion:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/option-to-adjust-race-distance-in-career-races.316871/

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

For me the most interesting endurance race was the 90 laps at Laguna Seca race in GT4. I used a Amuse S2000 R1 on RH tires against one of the strongest lineups in order to get the 200 A-Spec points offer. The race was really good and pit and tire strategy came into play in a big way. One thing I had not accounted for was rigidity issues and late in the race it started to be a problem. After I had pitted for what I thought would be the last time I came out 30 seconds behind the Series 1 Shelby. I was able to cut that in half on RH tires before I noticed that my right front tire was wearing a lot faster than before and was already turning orange with several laps left to go, my lap times dropped off and the Shelby started pull away. Out of desperation I dived into the pits and threw on a set of softs and started driving like a man possessed. Down by over a minute as I came out of the pits, I closed the gap to a few car lengths by the last corner on the last lap. I thought If I don't brake I can catch him there and knock him off track then win. I missed and went off roading instead finished 2nd.

I went out restored the car and loaded the race again. The second try was not nearly as much fun as I won easily with a straight car and a little better pit strategy.

That first race was maybe the only endurance race I have ran that actually was still a race on the last few laps.

On the 24hr Nurburgring race I used the same car, added a little more power to keep up with the race cars there but again 200 A-Spec points. the result there was I had the lead before the first pit and never looked back by the end I had lapped the 2nd place M3 race car 6 times

 

[EliteBeast55]

I understand what they were trying to do with the 'endurance races' in GT6, as I don't think there's many people keen on driving a 24 hour race against the AI, even with mid-race saves. But 24 minutes was too far in the opposite direction to the point of making the races feel like prolonged sprints with a pit-stop or two attached. Removing the traditional Grand Valley Speedway endurance was a further kick in the teeth.

Personally, I would want a video game endurance race to last long enough to feel like an endurance race, but not so last long as to drag on long after you've grown sick of driving the same track over and over, and long after your finishing position is locked in barring a freak occurrence. With that in mind, If I was in charge of making the events in GT6, this is how I would've made the S class races;

650 PP normal cars: 35 laps of Willow Springs, 25 laps of Ascari.

650 PP race cars: 25 laps of Silverstone, Apricot Hill 1 hour.

Super GT: 40 laps of Brands Hatch, Suzuka 250.

GT3 cars: Spa 2 hour, Nurburgring 2 hour.

LMP cars: Grand Valley 300, Le Mans 2 hour.

And I also would've thrown in the FGT championship as the final S class event, with races scaled to 25% real life F1 distance.

Tyre/Fuel Usage: x1 or x2 (which one would you prefer?)

FGT championship aside, the shorter races would take at least 45 minutes to complete, and there's five races there that reach the 1.5-2 hour mark. The Spa race would be accurate to the cars in the real Spa 24 hour race too.

Stuff like this, and the rubberband AI with spaced out rolling starts, make me I knew how to mod games and/or this game was available on PC so it could be modded.

These races would be good to have!