poll for those outside north and central america

[skicrush]

True - though until now a manual was the only available transmission on the M5, which creates problems for many, especially those looking in the high end sedan segment. I know it created problems for me (though I do plan on getting the new M5 eventually, now that it has a manu-matic). E36 M3 sedans are steals.

Manual only isn't a negative in MY book, but you're right--the wife will be a little harder to talk into that. The E36 M3 sedans, though--I think I can make that one fly. Once I graduate But I still keep browsing the listings--I can't stay away!!

 

[1X83Z]

The E36 M3 sedans, though--I think I can make that one fly.

They're definitely a whole hell of a lot of fun.

 

[skicrush]

And when I said fly, I meant FLY!!!!! Man, I want one of those things!! With a baby seat in the back!!!

 

[1X83Z]

And when I said fly, I meant FLY!!!!! Man, I want one of those things!! With a baby seat in the back!!!

One of very few cars where color really makes the look - and that purple with those wheels really doesn't do it for me. Regardless of color, they're great. I of course prefer the automatic.

 

[a6m5]

Its the same here--always has been. Looks like its a universal truth.

We have a 98 camry 4 banger, and it does as well the my inlaw's 99 V6 camry. Only problem is that they get about the same mileage--go figure. But I think ours looks tons better than the new versions, besides the fact that I'd never buy new anyway. I will forever believe in getting an older, used "exactly what I want!" than in getting a new, "yeah, it's OK" vehicle. In fact, M5, you can get a decently used M3 for about what you'd pay to get a new sedan (accord, camry, etc), and an M5 for not too much more than a newer, high end sedan.

I hear you. When I look thru the local used car catalogs, I see my dream 3-Series and 5-series, some sedans and some sweeeet wagons. Last time I checked, they were around $15000, or little bit higher and they were just 2, 3 years old! However, I still won't do it, because I just HATE car troubles. I do question the reliability of used BMWs a little bit, with expensive parts and labor on top of that is enough to make me settle for maybe a new Ford or Honda.

 

[1X83Z]

Man - it's 2005! Two- and three-year-old cars don't have trouble! You could get such a better car than a damn four-cylinder Altima. I'd really, really look used next time or at least at a nicer compact.

 

[a6m5]

Man - it's 2005! Two- and three-year-old cars don't have trouble! You could get such a better car than a damn four-cylinder Altima. I'd really, really look used next time or at least at a nicer compact.

Good point. I think I will look into used cars for sure, next time around.
Why does BMWs deprecitate so much though? New, I'm sure 3-Series are over $30,000, loaded. If I remember correctly, 01 or 02 were going for $15,000 range, even for sweet stationwagons with factory 18" rims.

 

[1X83Z]

Good point. I think I will look into used cars for sure, next time around.
Why does BMWs deprecitate so much though? New, I'm sure 3-Series are over $30,000, loaded. If I remember correctly, 01 or 02 were going for $15,000 range, even for sweet stationwagons with factory 18" rims.

BMWs seem to have among the best depreciation records. Consider:

3-series
'92 BMW 325i sedan ($30300 new; $5000 retail good = 16.5% retained)
'92 Audi 80 Quattro ($26700 new; $3150 retail good = 11.8% retained)
'92 Mercedes 190E 2.6 ($35300 new; $3975 retail good = 11.3% retained)
'92 Infiniti G20 ($19600 new; $3100 retail good = 15.8% retained)

'98 BMW 328i sedan ($36800 new; $12100 retail good = 32.9% retained)
'98 Audi A4 2.8 sedan ($30000 new; $9325 retail good = 31.1% retained)
'98 Mercedes C280 ($38000 new; $10550 retail good = 27.8% retained)
'98 Volvo S70 T5 ($35600 new; $9850 retail good = 27.7% retained)

'02 BMW 330i ($38400 new; $24300 retail good = 63.3% retained)
'02 Jaguar X-Type 3.0 ($39100 new; $18400 retail good = 47.1% retained)
'02 Volvo S60 T5 ($34700 new; $18300 retail good = 52.7% retained)
'02 Mercedes C320 sedan ($38800 new; $23700 retail good = 61.1% retained)

5-series
'92 BMW 525i ($38000 new; $6375 retail good = 16.8% retained)
'92 Audi 100CS Quattro sedan ($36800 new; $4900 retail good = 13.3% retained)
'92 Jaguar XJ6 ($45100 new; $4500 retail good = 10.0% retained)
'92 Alfa Romeo 164S ($35400 new; $3775 retail good = 10.7% retained)

'98 BMW 540i ($51100 new; $18800 retail good = 36.8% retained)
'98 Mercedes E430 ($52300 new; $17600 retail good = 33.7% retained)
'98 Acura 3.5RL ($41600 new; $12100 retail good = 29.1% retained)
'98 Infiniti Q45 ($48400 new; $10700 retail good = 22.1% retained)

'02 BMW 530i ($44700 new; $29800 retail good = 66.7% retained)
'02 Audi A6 2.7T ($40300 new; $22800 retail good = 56.6% retained)
'02 Mercedes E320 ($50300 new; $29600 retail good = 58.8% retained)
'02 Lincoln LSE V8 ($41200 new; $20100 retal good = 48.8% retained)

I tried to toss in a mix of cars there so you could see how BMW is the premium-brand resale king (some of the cars really don't fit but you get the idea). For reference:

'92 Toyota Camry LE sedan ($17300 new; $3175 retail good = 18.3% retained)
'98 Toyota Camry LE ($20900 new; $6425 retail good = 30.7% retained)
'02 Toyota Camry LE ($20300 new; $12000 retail good = 59.1% retained)

'92 Ford Taurus LX sedan ($18700 new; $1825 retail good = 9.8% retained)
'98 Ford Taurus SE sedan ($20000 new; $3925 retail good = 19.6% retained)
'02 Ford Taurus SE sedan ($20100 new; $7725 retail good = 38.4% retained)

 

[a6m5]

I did little research on the local used BMW prices. From a dealer, prices are about what you described. Maybe they were certified, which I like. Private seller 3-Series are about $16,000 to $20,000. There was this one sweet silver wagon with AWD, I didn't even know there was AWD 3-Series. 👍

On the reliability issue, I remembered something else. When you buy an '02 3-Series for example, you're right, this is 2005 and the car is only 2,3 years old. However, when you own that Bimmer for 5 years, you could encounter problems. That's my thinking anyway. I'm not made of $$$ like M5Power, so I really don't want car troubles.

I should look into an slightly used Acura TSX next time though. I want that car soooo bad, but it's out of my price range. If there's an used one from a private seller in the near future, who knows!

 

[1X83Z]

I did little research on the local used BMW prices. From a dealer, prices are about what you described. Maybe they were certified, which I like. Private seller 3-Series are about $16,000 to $20,000. There was this one sweet silver wagon with AWD, I didn't even know there was AWD 3-Series. 👍

I used Kelley Blue Book for all those values. Not sure which model you're talking about, but I did use an '02 330i, which is the nicest sedan version. You're probably looking at 325i's. A '02 325xiT, which is an all-wheel drive 3-series wagon with the 184-horsepower 2.5-liter straight six, lists for $21700 retail good with Blue Book. At a dealer, Blue Book says it's $25500.

On the reliability issue, I remembered something else. When you buy an '02 3-Series for example, you're right, this is 2005 and the car is only 2,3 years old. However, when you own that Bimmer for 5 years, you could encounter problems. That's my thinking anyway. I'm not made of $$$ like M5Power, so I really don't want car troubles.

So because something could go wrong, you won't buy used, but you'll pay more to get less buying new!? Do you know the figures on problems with new cars!? Initial quality studies are telling, and Nissan's barely above the industry average. Used! Used! Used!

I should look into an slightly used Acura TSX next time though.

Sure you should - if you want to lose to a Grand Caravan off the line.

 

[a6m5]

ISo because something could go wrong, you won't buy used, but you'll pay more to get less buying new!? Do you know the figures on problems with new cars!? Initial quality studies are telling, and Nissan's barely above the industry average. Used! Used! Used!

I agree with the figure on Nissan, I think it's about average. However, I'm not paying more, I'm paying about the same. Probably $18,000 to $20,000 range. With the new car purchase, an Accord for an example, I'm getting an good car. Chances of something going wrong in a five year ownership is small(especially with Japanese mid-size sedans).

With an used BMW 3-Series, you'll get an awesome car(at least for me ), but is 2, 3 years old. With the famous BMW reliability, chances of something going wrong in the 5 years you own that car is more than I'd like. Keep in mind, that car is 7, 8 years old by the end of your ownership.

Anyhow, you've definitely opened up my eyes regarding used cars. Thank you! 👍

Sure you should - if you want to lose to a Grand Caravan off the line.

You always seem to hit me where it hurts....

 

[1X83Z]

With an used BMW 3-Series, you'll get an awesome car(at least for me ), but is 2, 3 years old. With the famous BMW reliability, chances of something going wrong in the 5 years you own that car is more than I'd like. Keep in mind, that car is 7, 8 years old by the end of your ownership.

Well then forget BMW - I agree there. But I think a 2003 Accord EX V6, or a 2003 Altima SE, is going to be a better purchase than a 2005 Altima 2.5S. It'll be similarly reliable, too, and probably cheaper - and the age difference is only going to be two years.

You always seem to hit me where it hurts....

I think I may have exaggerated that one, but TSXs are surprisingly slow, especially with an automatic, where they're at about 8.3 seconds to sixty. Definitely slower than Quest and Odyssey.

 

[a6m5]

Well then forget BMW - I agree there. But I think a 2003 Accord EX V6, or a 2003 Altima SE, is going to be a better purchase than a 2005 Altima 2.5S. It'll be similarly reliable, too, and probably cheaper - and the age difference is only going to be two years.

Yeah, that's what I'm starting to see. Even if I can't afford an Bimmer, I can definitely buy better grade car, with few thousand miles on it for the same price as the near-base "new" car.

I think I may have exaggerated that one, but TSXs are surprisingly slow, especially with an automatic, where they're at about 8.3 seconds to sixty. Definitely slower than Quest and Odyssey.

Damn! 8.3 is pretty slow to 60. I'm ok with the stick, so I usually get good launch though(think 0-60 in 8.2!).

 

[James2097]

Pajero was supposed to be the worldwide name, but it meant wanker in Spanish so they sold it here as Montero

This had to come up eventually. I laughed so hard when that story came up! To this day, this reason is enough for me to never buy a Pajero. An irrational reason, but true!

Also I am totally never buying an absolutely 'new' car (unless I get really rich, and its something your gonna be really attached to, and keep forever, like a DB9 etc). Get it near new and save mucho $$$. The new car thing is just because most people just want the feeling they get when having a new car, it doesn't matter once they've had it for a month or so, you end up with the same product. Purchasing a new car is possibly the most popular irrational thing people like doing en masse. Its as smart as lemmings jumping off cliffs (btw i know lemmings don't really jump off cliffs, its a myth ). Funnily enough, most of the 'new car' smell is still there for quite a while (3 months and going strong with my mate's new Astra... he was a lemming!).

 

[a6m5]

Purchasing a new car is possibly the most popular irrational thing people like doing en masse. Its as smart as lemmings jumping off cliffs (btw i know lemmings don't really jump off cliffs, its a myth ). Funnily enough, most of the 'new car' smell is still there for quite a while (3 months and going strong with my mate's new Astra... he was a lemming!).

THANKS A LOT! Call me a lemming....... and I thought M5 was being hard on me!

 

[James2097]

Hey if just the pleasant retail therapy "feeling" of buying a new car is worth the extra thousands of dollars to you, good on ya! LOL!

 

[a6m5]

No, it wan't the "new car" feel. I was always worried about the reliability issue, but like M5Power said earlier, it's 2005. I guess, my mentality was of early 90's.

 

[Emohawk]

This had to come up eventually. I laughed so hard when that story came up! To this day, this reason is enough for me to never buy a Pajero. An irrational reason, but true!

That's almost the exact same reason the Buick LaCrosse is called an Allure in Canada (only with French, instead of Spanish).

 

[neanderthal]

my brothers old 525 has only needed a cylinder head refresh after a timing belt incident. and i had told him to go get the timing belt done and he ignored me.

so what is this BMWs breaking down stuff you talk off. yeah, when they break don its more expensive, but youre describing them as money pits.

i'll go back to my age old standard; my 1975 BMW 2002, i purchased for $1800. i paid $4500 for a new drivetrain about five years ago; everything from fan to propshaft. all other work has been less than $500.
so ive spent 7K on the car in ten years. works out to just over $50 a month. never left me stranded. and thats a 30 year old BMW. if anything breaks down i can afford to fix it coz its running costs have been so low.

 

[a6m5]

my brothers old 525 has only needed a cylinder head refresh after a timing belt incident. and i had told him to go get the timing belt done and he ignored me.

so what is this BMWs breaking down stuff you talk off. yeah, when they break don its more expensive, but youre describing them as money pits.

i'll go back to my age old standard; my 1975 BMW 2002, i purchased for $1800. i paid $4500 for a new drivetrain about five years ago; everything from fan to propshaft. all other work has been less than $500.
so ive spent 7K on the car in ten years. works out to just over $50 a month. never left me stranded. and thats a 30 year old BMW. if anything breaks down i can afford to fix it coz its running costs have been so low.

I work for an auto dealership, so we hear a lot of stories. Yes, it's not an official figure of anything, but let's just say there's an understanding that BMW(or European cars in general) are not the most reliable cars. Also, as you've noted, they are not the cheapest to fix. I've also known many BMW owners, who's spent $$$ after $$$ fixing their BMWs. So it could be personal.

Don't get me wrong, BMWs are one of my favorite manufacturers. I'm an fan of sports sedans, so you could almost say I'd rather have an M5 than a Ferrari(almost).

I'm glad your 2002 is reliable. They are great cars! If there was an gurantee, that any BMW that I'm going to buy was going to be as reliable as yours, I wouldn't hesitate buying one.