[POLL] How Far do you want Car Maintenance to go?

[Ills1999]

Someone needs to develop a "I can't afford to take my car to the shop when it breaks down, so I have to buy tools and learn to do it myself" simulator.

 

[Samus]

http://www.complex.com/rides/2012/07/how-much-does-f1-cost

That article estimates an F1 car as costing $7 million dollars, but even if you double it, that's under 20 million.

Your point is based off the gameplay from GT5, which I'm down as saying I didn't like. But yes, if you shoe horned the lose-your-car thing into GT5, it wouldn't be fun in this example because it doesn't work with the design. You don't earn enough money. The 20 million thing is a good example. By the time you can afford a 20 million dollar car, in theory you should be a multi-multi millionaire or at the very least have a bank account not *capped* at 20 million. It's ridiculous. Fernando Alonso makes more than that in a year.

So in the GT5 world, sure that would be an obnoxious "realistic" thing to have. But I can imagine in GT6 that I finally got the money to get a really expensive LeMans Prototype. A big race comes up, I decide it's worth using, but I have a huge crash and it's wrecked for awhile. I don't think that's un-fun, to use a technical term.

Buy another one or fix it, and practice more so I'll win next time without crashing.

Ok so you race online with your F1 car and in the space of an hour write off five cars. You have to buy a new one each time or wait for the repair time if you can't afford a new one. "Hey Wolfe, why aren't you in the race?" "Oh sorry I can't, I had a big crash in the last race and I can't afford a new one so I'm going to have to sit here and twiddle my thumbs for twenty minutes whilst it's fixed."


Also what about when you start out early in the game. You buy your first car, win a few races and then enter a big one. You crash your car and it's wrecked, can't be repaired. Just buy another car or use another of your cars? But wait, you don't have one, that was your first car and you don't have enough credits for a new one. Game over or back to the starting rung of the ladder.

It's just silly. You say in your last example that isn't "un-fun" but that doesn't tell me what you WOULD find fun about it? I don't see how it's anything but an inconvenience getting in the way of fun in a video game made for entertainment.

 

[lazywolfe]

If this were to happen, then my only concern is making sure that this sort of thing is OPTIONAL. If what you said hear floats your boat, fine. But there's no reason to force it on everyone else.

It was just an example of consequences based on realism, and my saying I don't think it steps over the bounds of realism overriding fun. But I'm all for difficulty levels. They are sorely missing.

 

[lazywolfe]

Ok so you race online with your F1 car and in the space of an hour write off five cars. You have to buy a new one each time or wait for the repair time if you can't afford a new one. "Hey Wolfe, why aren't you in the race?" "Oh sorry I can't, I had a big crash in the last race and I can't afford a new one so I'm going to have to sit here and twiddle my thumbs for twenty minutes whilst it's fixed."

That's online. Not A-spec. There's cross over and I don't think there should be. Online is sort of Online-Arcade mode, yet you use your A-spec garage. It's not based on progress. You should probably have access to all cars.

Also what about when you start out early in the game. You buy your first car, win a few races and then enter a big one. You crash your car and it's wrecked, can't be repaired. Just buy another car or use another of your cars? But wait, you don't have one, that was your first car and you don't have enough credits for a new one. Game over or back to the starting rung of the ladder.

I actually mentioned this but took it out of my response because I tried to keep it short. But being able to create your own saved points and not having auto-save would address the situation you describe. It wouldn't be game over or back to the bottom. It would make it like any other game with saving. I don't like that they did it that way.

It's just silly.

Nah.

You say in your last example that isn't "un-fun" but that doesn't tell me what you WOULD find fun about it?

Already told you. Immersion, challenge, realism. For me. And in theory, if I didn't want those things on that day, I'd have other modes (Arcade, Time Trial, Online, Special Missions (from GT4), whatever).

 

[Samus]

So this would only happen in A-Spec? Wouldn't that be somewhat inconsistent if you can't use a car in A-Spec but you can online?

People play hardcore sims like iRacing and they pretty much DEMAND immersion, challenge and realism and I doubt you would find more than a handful of people that would want something like you're describing.

Damage in the race is enough of a challenge and realism, you don't need it to continue after the race. Realism in the gameplay is good, realism outside of actual gameplay when it comes to this sort of thing, no.

 

[Dave_Th]

I would like to see an optional extreme level of detail and it would look something like this:

You get to the end of the race your car is beat up due to the drive, and a few 'rubbin' incidents during the race. The winnings screen will tell you how much the prize money was and how much it will cost to get your car back to pristine shape. you hit the X button to accept all the repairs and go ont the next race. Or you can hit the square button to see the repair sheet.

At the repair sheet you can decide not to fix the dent in the door, which will save money but will increase the air flow around the car next race. Not changing the oil will reduce the max Hp output. Not rebuilding the motor will give a % chance you will have a engine failure next race.

Of course you can set up a repair style sheet that defines when to rebuild the motor (like when the risk of failure is more then 5%).

This would be a simulation level of damage for the car which will increase the winning pool but comes at a risk.

 

[CayenneGT]

I would like to see an optional extreme level of detail and it would look something like this:

You get to the end of the race your car is beat up due to the drive, and a few 'rubbin' incidents during the race. The winnings screen will tell you how much the prize money was and how much it will cost to get your car back to pristine shape. you hit the X button to accept all the repairs and go ont the next race. Or you can hit the square button to see the repair sheet.

At the repair sheet you can decide not to fix the dent in the door, which will save money but will increase the air flow around the car next race. Not changing the oil will reduce the max Hp output. Not rebuilding the motor will give a % chance you will have a engine failure next race.

Of course you can set up a repair style sheet that defines when to rebuild the motor (like when the risk of failure is more then 5%).

This would be a simulation level of damage for the car which will increase the winning pool but comes at a risk.

Thats good and all but this is where GT mode is not suited for it, too advance and may piss off the general fan base.

That's why there MUST be 2 separate modes of gameplay:

-A true successor of GT mode that's evolved and is innovating with non of this advance repairs people have been posting (in fact get rid of losing HP and chasis damage, stupid for a GT mode)

-A brand new 'Career Mode' where all the advance repairs and real damage is put in.

 

[lazywolfe]

So this would only happen in A-Spec? Wouldn't that be somewhat inconsistent if you can't use a car in A-Spec but you can online?

Why is it inconsistent? They're different modes. DLC aside, you can race any track online, even though in your personal A-spec experience you may not have unlocked that track (Top Gear Test Track) or have enough experience points to be in a race at that track. As long as online offered you every car, you'd still get to use the same car from A-spec. Just set up the tuning, or do some sort "import A-spec setting." Your A-spec version can still have its issues as far as damage and other advanced car maintenance issues that wouldn't carry over to online.

In F1 2010 you can use any car in Time Trial, but not in Career mode until you get the drive for that team.

All I was saying is the modes don't necessarily have to do anything with each other. They just happen to in GT5, probably because of the garage system.

Damage in the race is enough of a challenge and realism, you don't need it to continue after the race.

Disagree. Let's leave it at that.

 

[avens]

I get you're making a joke, but even then, you have other cars.

A realistic experience would be dying in a car crash or getting injured to the point of not being able to race again. Lets simulate the kubica experience so you can't drive formula 1s anymore, or by tied to driving certain cars (team, category and sponsorship issues) like practically all pro drivers do.

In the end my point is everything that gets in the way of playing the game should be removed, especially the parts that are simply annoying and add not a single layer of depth or enjoyment. Oil changes (along with chassis and engine restoration) are the best example.

 

[lazywolfe]

A realistic experience would be dying in a car crash or getting injured to the point of not being able to race again.

No one (at least not me) is saying 100% realism or bust, there's obviously a gradient. Plus, you die in other games, it's not a radical concept. The difference here is it doesn't mean anything. As in most games, you die you start over. It would be the same here. Again, think save points. Simulating a real death just comes off as bad taste due to the realities of the sport the game is simulating. No one usually cares in other types of games.

In the end my point is everything that gets in the way of playing the game should be removed

Think Franchise mode in Madden. It has an insane amount of complexity compared to GT. It's also smart enough to have a lot of it automated if you choose. PD could do the same here.

GT has always been about more than driving around a track, so its very nature invites these discussions. I don't want them to go too far either (dang, the shift knob on my supra fell off, now I can't shift!), but I still want them to consider as much as possible and try to make it work as a game.

 

[hobanator24]

I think that the maintenance can be alittle more detailed, without going over the top.

They should keep the current features, but add more detail. Such as:

Actually having a dirty car that needs to be washed (after off roading, brake dust, rain, etc...)
Choose which parts you want to replace, rather than doing a complete engine overhaul & chassis overhaul. (Some people might not have the 200k to do a chassis overhaul on an expensive car.) You can choose to replace shocks, struts, leaf springs (for trucks), pads, rotors, filters, etc...
& your car should be made unavailable for a certain period of time. When I sent my MK3 VR6 to the mechanic, it took him 1 day to find out everything that was wrong with the car, 1 day for parts, & 1 day to install everything. Subtract the first two days & that would be perfectly reasonable (depending on the parts you are replacing.

 

[Ills1999]

You should be able to buy your own property.

Then build a shop, either with contractors which would cost more money up front, or by yourself, which would cost less money but would take time away from racing.

Then you should be able to go about buying tools for your shop.

Level 1 might be hand tools
Level 2 might be diagnostic tools
Level 3 might be a chassis jig and a body shop

Also, you should be able to get training, which would increase your skill quickly at the expense of time driving, or learn through trial and error, which would increase your skill AND tuning ability over a long period and allow for more driving time.

etc etc etc

 

[CJSpencer77]

You should be able to buy your own property.

Then build a shop, either with contractors which would cost more money up front, or by yourself, which would cost less money but would take time away from racing.

Then you should be able to go about buying tools for your shop.

Level 1 might be hand tools
Level 2 might be diagnostic tools
Level 3 might be a chassis jig and a body shop

Also, you should be able to get training, which would increase your skill quickly at the expense of time driving, or learn through trial and error, which would increase your skill AND tuning ability over a long period and allow for more driving time.

etc etc etc

or not

 

[Johnnypenso]

I think that the maintenance can be alittle more detailed, without going over the top.

They should keep the current features, but add more detail. Such as:

Actually having a dirty car that needs to be washed (after off roading, brake dust, rain, etc...)
Choose which parts you want to replace, rather than doing a complete engine overhaul & chassis overhaul. (Some people might not have the 200k to do a chassis overhaul on an expensive car.) You can choose to replace shocks, struts, leaf springs (for trucks), pads, rotors, filters, etc...
& your car should be made unavailable for a certain period of time. When I sent my MK3 VR6 to the mechanic, it took him 1 day to find out everything that was wrong with the car, 1 day for parts, & 1 day to install everything. Subtract the first two days & that would be perfectly reasonable (depending on the parts you are replacing.

I'm all for as much realism as possible, but at my option. If some people enjoy this and want to do it I think that's great, I dont want to and I hope if something like this was implemented I'd have the option to turn it off for me. I like to tune and drive. Messing around with this kind of behind the scenes stuff turns me off. As does the long wait for oil changes, car washes and adding parts in general.

 

[20B_4ME]

Why not have a more "technical" advanced mode as a switchable option? Something we can switch on and off? I guess if you don't like that level of realism, just go play Arcade mode or another more arcade-like game (ie Need For Speed).

 

[CJSpencer77]

Why not have a more "technical" advanced mode as a switchable option? Something we can switch on and off? I guess if you don't like that level of realism, just go play Arcade mode or another more arcade-like game (ie Need For Speed).

??? Most people want that level of realism driving the car not washing a car!!! , I for one hate having to wash or service my car and when i have pranged a car i certainly did not enjoy having to have it pulled straight on a jig, and definatly dont want a closer to real life simulation of it either.

 

[eight6er]

I voted to get rid of all maintenance, but I wouldn't mind if extreme maintenance was included once I could turn it off.