Ponitac GTO 2004

  • Thread starter Thread starter The Porko
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Maaate!! You could post the pictures!!!

PV__010752__.jpg


PV__010753__.jpg
 
Dissapointing, not much of a change, GM really did it this time. Everything execpt the front and rear bumper, headlights, some badging and that about it. Luz is bragging about THIS, this is totally ridiculous. Actually, I still prefer the original Holden styling, not the copycat Pontiac.

Social climber. :irked:
 
Other than a rear wing, I see no change in the rear bumper.

I don't like the GTO grille (although I will concede I like my car shapes clean) - the Holden is a gorgeous large two door, especially in light metallics - it's the only car I've seen carry metallic lime with any shade of grace.
 
Both are ugly. The last well designed American car was released in 2000: The Escape. It's only well-designed because it's inoffensive. But then again, I cannot recall a truly bad automotive design in my lifetime.
 
I like the Australian one more because i just don't like that weird front grille.
 
You called the Monaro ugly? You have a vision problem - see an optometrist.

I seem to recall you describing some very unattractive SUVs attractive - bad trend, big fella..
 
Originally posted by vat_man
You called the Monaro ugly? You have a vision problem - see an optometrist.

I seem to recall you describing some very unattractive SUVs attractive - bad trend, big fella...
vat_man, any statement I make about auto design, you may disregard. According to me, the Aztek is inoffensive, the 350Z is horrible, the original Vectra is beautiful and a missed opportunity for GM in the US, the first WRX was striking and pleasant, and the (Mazda) Tribute is one of the best-looking cars for sale in this country. Oh, and I think the All Sport Mazda MPV 4WD was one of the better-looking cars ever sold.
 
I totally argee there, i hate the rear wing and the front grille. I love the colour but would be good if they bring that colour out on the Monaro Series II
 
Originally posted by M5Power
vat_man, any statement I make about auto design, you may disregard. According to me, the Aztek is inoffensive, the 350Z is horrible, the original Vectra is beautiful and a missed opportunity for GM in the US, the first WRX was striking and pleasant, and the (Mazda) Tribute is one of the best-looking cars for sale in this country. Oh, and I think the All Sport Mazda MPV 4WD was one of the better-looking cars ever sold.
Oh - I think we have some common ground here, if you're referring to this Vectra:

27184_s.jpg


I had this model (in CD trim, the one pictured is a GL, but the colour's right) - I thought it was a very attractive mid-sizer.

First WRX - yeah, not bad - basic shape of the first Impreza was good, just the details need cleaning up, most of the issues were addressed by the WRX (I detest that 'roll-over bonnet - you either have a grille or not - you don't shape the car to have a grille and then don't!)

Re the others - I'd be hard pressed to pick an SUV I like - the Aztec shots that I've seen (not having seen the car in real life) show a car with a mismatch of angles and Korean-amateur detailing.

And if the Mazda you refer to is this...
mpv_p.jpg

...a duller vehicle I could not imagine - except maybe a Toyota Camry....
 
Ever since GM introduced the replacment of the Chevrolet Impala SS, GM screws every bit of their division; Oldmobile dead, F-body dead (finally), bought Daewoo, design of the Aztek-Avalanche-Silverado-Rendezvous, screwy portholes on Buicks, and worthless reliability. What GM is doing right now to survive is giving that zero-zero-zero incentives on customers, and later on, they will suffer for the utterly poor resale value of their vehicles.

Crapaholic.
 
Originally posted by The Vanishing Boy
What GM is doing right now to survive is giving that zero-zero-zero incentives on customers, and later on, they will suffer for the utterly poor resale value of their vehicles.

Funny you should mention that - we took a beating on the resale of the Little Silver Rocket. Hopefully they don't screw up the new Legacy/Liberty (I keep hearing rumours that the new one's going to share a platform with the Vectra/9-3).

Which would be a shame - the Legacy/Liberty we have commands about a $4k (Australian) premium over the CD Vectra - and it's about a $15k better car.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Oh - I think we have some common ground here, if you're referring to this Vectra:

I had this model (in CD trim, the one pictured is a GL, but the colour's right) - I thought it was a very attractive mid-sizer.


Yep -- I loved that car. Probably just because I didn't see them every day, though. When I went to England in 1999 I was delighted to see them everywhere. Strangely, I'm not a Mondeo fan the same way.

First WRX - yeah, not bad - basic shape of the first Impreza was good, just the details need cleaning up, most of the issues were addressed by the WRX (I detest that 'roll-over bonnet - you either have a grille or not - you don't shape the car to have a grille and then don't!)

...and the basic feeling of people worldwide was that it was growing on them. A redesign, in my opinion, was completely un-necessary.

Re the others - I'd be hard pressed to pick an SUV I like - the Aztec shots that I've seen (not having seen the car in real life) show a car with a mismatch of angles and Korean-amateur detailing.

I'd be hard-pressed to find an SUV, minivan, truck, or family sedan that I truly dislike. I find beauty in the 'form follows function' rule, and if you've even been in an Aztek you know that it has one of the most functional interiors ever (ugly, but functional) for an 'active' lifestyle (which I do not have).

And if the Mazda you refer to is this...

...a duller vehicle I could not imagine - except maybe a Toyota Camry....

Are you nuts!? Look at the great two-tone, the wonderful wheels, and the perfect archiecture over from the windshield on... :drool:
 
Vat_man, it is only affected by the stupid 0-0-0 are the US GM cars not the Aussie cars.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Funny you should mention that - we took a beating on the resale of the Little Silver Rocket. Hopefully they don't screw up the new Legacy/Liberty


Re-sale value in countries other than the United States and Canada are absolutely breathtaking, as are warranties. Recently in the UK, Hyundai upped their basic powertrain warranty to five years and jaws dropped. In America, Chrysler has a 7 year, 100,000 mile basic warranty, and Kia and Hyundai both have ten year, unlimited mile warranties. For resale, most cars, even American cars, hold their values better than even popular European cars like the Vectra and Pug 406. After three years of ownership of a new car in America, you can easily get at least 65% of a car's value back.
 
Originally posted by The Vanishing Boy
Vat_man, it is only affected by the stupid 0-0-0 are the US GM cars not the Aussie cars.
Zero zero zero is the worst move ever, in the history of automobiles. Ever. Because not only did GM still lose loads of money by doing this cheap car crap, but now everyone has a new car and doesn't want another. No-one at GM thought through 0-0-0 at all.
 
Originally posted by M5Power


Yep -- I loved that car. Probably just because I didn't see them every day, though. When I went to England in 1999 I was delighted to see them everywhere. Strangely, I'm not a Mondeo fan the same way.

...and the basic feeling of people worldwide was that it was growing on them. A redesign, in my opinion, was completely un-necessary.

I'd be hard-pressed to find an SUV, minivan, truck, or family sedan that I truly dislike. I find beauty in the 'form follows function' rule, and if you've even been in an Aztek you know that it has one of the most functional interiors ever (ugly, but functional) for an 'active' lifestyle (which I do not have).

Are you nuts!? Look at the great two-tone, the wonderful wheels, and the perfect archiecture over from the windshield on... :drool: [/B]

1) The first Mondeo reminded me of the old Cortina. English members will remind you of that car. We test drove one in the run up to buying the Vectra - awful.

2) I thought you were referring to this thing:
s+limage00.jpg
not this
wrx.jpg

It was a bit of a shock initially - but I ended up liking the bug-eyed monster. It's got more styling faults than a Hyundai Granduer - but they are a treat to drive, and a big improvement over the old model. The facelifted model is meant to be a big step - and actually looks pretty good.

3) No - I'm pretty comfortable with my position
 
Originally posted by vat_man
We test drove one in the run up to buying the Vectra - awful.


We got the basic Mondeo in America in the form of the Ford Contour which was very uninspiring. Despite Automobile magazine calling it an all-star in the small sedan class almost every year it was produced, we never caught on. It has depreciated horribly and they now tend to be extremely popular among low-income families looking for new, cheap transportation.

The facelifted model is meant to be a big step - and actually looks pretty good.


No question it's better, but the facelift was costly and, in my opinion, too early. The car was SELLING!

3) No - I'm pretty comfortable with my position

...the wheel arches, the dark colour, the wonderful 'not-too-boxy' styling... :drool:
 
Originally posted by M5Power
No question it's better, but the facelift was costly and, in my opinion, too early. The car was SELLING!

Oh - look, I agree. I have a sneaking thought that the facelift was driven by the rally team. In Australia, every model except the WRX had sales well up on the prior model - and we're talking very significant double digit figures here.

The thing is - WRX was one third of Subaru sales here - so if they're down - Subaru listens.

I guess the 20-something drug dealers who were buying/stealing most of them - and making it impossible for genuine enthusiasts like me to buy them because of ridiculous insurance costs because they can't handle 200+hp - didn't like the extra cost, weight and (gasp) refinement.
 
Originally posted by vat_man
Oh - look, I agree. I have a sneaking thought that the facelift was driven by the rally team. In Australia, every model except the WRX had sales well up on the prior model - and we're talking very significant double digit figures here.

The thing is - WRX was one third of Subaru sales here - so if they're down - Subaru listens.


Only for the last six years in America has Subaru enjoyed the benefits of a healthy reputation, a huge profit, and major sales (thanks entirely to the Outback). This is a company that, like their buyers, doesn't take risks. The WRX's problem was that sales were beginning to dry up in the United States (they were already fairly flat in the rest of the world which had Imp turbos in the past), so Subaru knew there was a problem. Frankly, I think they're doing a good job by staying ahead of the pack -- they keep it inoffensive, well-priced, and loaded with stuff, and they didn't want to become controversial now. But if they had listened to me, they would've just promoed it more. After all, people like other bug-eyed cars.
 
Originally posted by M5Power
[B Frankly, I think they're doing a good job by staying ahead of the pack -- they keep it inoffensive, well-priced, and loaded with stuff, and they didn't want to become controversial now. But if they had listened to me, they would've just promoed it more. After all, people like other bug-eyed cars. [/B]

Well - their stance with AWD, and well built fine handling car proves that.

I think the new one will sell up an absolute storm. Much as we'd hate to be proven wrong, I think the new one will be huge hit - the road test reviews indicate they've fixed the understeer and mid-range torque issues from the prior model - I think people who were thinking of the old one will sit in the new one and change their minds.

I'll see if I can get my hands on one and test drive it - having a recent Legacy/Liberty adds a lot of credence when you roll up to a Subaru dealership when you just want a test drive.
 
Originally posted by vat_man

I think the new one will sell up an absolute storm. Much as we'd hate to be proven wrong, I think the new one will be huge hit - the road test reviews indicate they've fixed the understeer and mid-range torque issues from the prior model - I think people who were thinking of the old one will sit in the new one and change their minds.

Are they raising prices? I haven't seen any new figures -- actually, the facelifted model hasn't even debuted here yet.
 
The original Impreza looked very much like the economy car it was first marketed as. Even the first WRX didn't make much of an improvement. But as the model progressed, it got better. My favorite is the P1 (as it to most who like the 1st generation Impreza). My first hands-on experience was with the bug-eyed wonder. It's a great car (compared to everything else I've had to deal with). It's kooky, and I wasn't thrilled about the re-design. I looked forward to buying a faster version of my old 2.5RS. But it grew on me, and now I turn back and look at my car every time I get out. (BTW, I really like the S202: http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/impreza_s202sti.asp.)

So now they're re-designing it. Not bad, but not exactly as unique as either of the previous versions. It's still aggressive, but a bit fatter; perhaps to soft-edged for my taste. The hood scoop gaurantees that you'll still pick out the WRX in a crowd 10 times out of 10, but the rest of it is getting a little...non-Impreza. Oh, I'll still buy an '04 STi if i can though!
 
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