Porsche 911 GT 1

[Juice476]

i know they dont have the names of the car but do they have the cars them selves im a big fan of the porsche and wondering if they have the 911 gt1 and gt3 and ect... but mostley the GT 1 thats my baby

 

[videogame adict]

I'm sorry but no. There's a Ruf but it's not the same thing.

-ZEDak

 

[CMcMahon]

The RUFs are pretty close, though, seeing as how they're a Porsche tuner.

 

[daan]

There are no Porsches, Ferraris or Lamborghinis in GT4.

And signatures are allowed a maximum of 6 lines. Yours is over double that.

 

[Skant]

They didn't have the licensing for Porsche, so they don't have an regular Porsches in the game. However, they do have RUF in the game. So you can get the RUF version of that car which is the RGT.

So basically, the RUF RGT is a 'tuner' version of the Porsche. Much like the Callaway Corvettes or the Shelby Mustangs.

That's the closest you get. It's a very nice car in the game!

- Skant

 

[vladimir]

there are several ruf 911, but no 911 gt1.

 

[Scaff]

They didn't have the licensing for Porsche, so they don't have an regular Porsches in the game. However, they do have RUF in the game. So you can get the RUF version of that car which is the RGT.

So basically, the RUF RGT is a 'tuner' version of the Porsche. Much like the Callaway Corvettes or the Shelby Mustangs.

That's the closest you get. It's a very nice car in the game!

- Skant

No, No, No. The RUF RGT is not a tuner version of a Porsche.

RUF are a manufacturer in their own right. This has been covered a number of times on different threads.

But in a nutshell RUF models carry an RUF chassis number and are badged and sold as RUF's.

Take a look at the RUF website for further details.

RUF homepage

 

[zoxxy]

No, No, No. The RUF RGT is not a tuner version of a Porsche.

RUF are a manufacturer in their own right. This has been covered a number of times on different threads.

But in a nutshell RUF models carry an RUF chassis number and are badged and sold as RUF's.

Take a look at the RUF website for further details.

RUF homepage

Wow, how many times haven't we discussed this...

 

[hitman146]

the ruf company are porshe tuners

 

[Scaff]

the ruf company are porshe tuners

The RUF company are an independent German car manufacturer who will tune Porsche's.

However the RUF models (as featured in GT4) are RUF cars, not Porsche's. You will not find a single Porsche badge on them, they also carry RUF chassis numbers.

The following is from the RUF website.

"In the same year RUF Automobile received the prestigious and coveted Manufactures’ Certification from the German Federal Vehicle Offices"

And

"in 1987 the newest RUF high speed sports car, the CTR, received its certification for normal road use. This incredi-ble car, a 469 bhp twin turbo coupé, exceeded the top speed world record for pro-duction cars on the Nardo Racetrack at a rate of 342 km/h!! It was at the time, and still today, a truly astonishing pace. In addition, this same year RUF Automobile GmbH became an approved manufacturer with the U.S. authorities for safety and emissions (NHTSA and EPA).
"

While as I have said RUF will tune a Porsche is you pay them, the cars they make are not tuned Porsche's, but RUF's.

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

as if this wasn't said before, RUF is not a car manufacturer. If they are a 'manufacturer', then Techart might as well call themselves a 'manufacturer. If they are indeed a car manufacturer (RUF), then I want to see a car they manufactured on there own, and not derived from a 'famous german sports car manufacturer' . I've been on the web site, searched on the net, and not yet seen only one. RUF is a tuner company for porsche, stop being so PC.

 

[Scaff]

as if this wasn't said before, RUF is not a car manufacturer. If they are a 'manufacturer', then Techart might as well call themselves a 'manufacturer. If they are indeed a car manufacturer (RUF), then I want to see a car they manufactured on there own, and not derived from a 'famous german sports car manufacturer' . I've been on the web site, searched on the net, and not yet seen only one. RUF is a tuner company for porsche, stop being so PC.

Have you ever been up close and personal with a modern RUF?

From your comment I seriously doubt it, the RGT share almost no original components with the GT3, the engine internals, suspension, brakes, interior and most bodypanels are not Porsche components. It may share the same layout and bodyshape as a Porsche, but that does not make it a Porsche.

The German government (and most EU authorities) and the American government recognise RUF as a seperate manufacturer. The motor industry recognises them as a Manufacturer. Its not PC in any way shape or form, its fact. You may not agree, as is your right, but it does not change that basic fact. Consider it PC all you want, RUF are an automotive manufacturer.

Most 'Tuners' do not go to anywere near the level of modification that RUF do, and when the do the manufacturer of the original car would not recognise the car as original (such as the Amuse Carbon R). The difference is that most do not put them into production as models in there own right.


BTW Techart do call themselves a manufacturer, from the Techart website.

" In 1995, TECHART achieved the status of an approved vehicle manufacturer with a globally valid VIN number, and over the recent years, TECHART has developed special vehicles like the incredible supercharged CT3 based on the 993 Carrera"

 

[jake11375]

If Porsche did not exist, RUF as we know it, would not exist. Whatever their claims may be, RUF looks like Porsche, plain and simple. I think this is why people find it so hard to separate RUF from Porsche. RUF is NOT an independant car manufacturer in the sense they would not exist "as we know it" without Porsche's initial design. They base their cars on Porsche's models, this is clearly evident. Everytime Porsche models change, RUF's models change as well to the same basic design. RUF's new models are modeled after Porsche, retro headlights and everything. Their is no RUF without Porsche...

 

[STINGER05]

RUF's are not Porsches, Scaff is right.

But the real reason why they are their own brand/manufacturer are of administrative/insurance/warranty background:

1. If you do major modifications, like Scaff points out rightly out to, like chassis changes, Porsche would NOT give any kind of warranty.

2. If you make certain modifications, mainly again on the chassis, you have to show your car to the German TUV (Technischer Uberwachungsverein). IF the changes are radical, the TUV will not allow you the car as a Porsche, but only as a different brand (you could choose any name that is not registred).Thsi because it is different than the original type Porsche showed to the TUV in order to get that model certified. So if RUF's are shown to the TUV, they are not allowed to have anything saying 'Porsche' on their car.(like kit cars are not allowed to have that either when they get certified..../ RUF's are certainly not kit cars...)

3. That is alos a reason why RUFs are more expensive(in general) than other cars who are ''only'' tuned. These certifications are expensive.

I had a Porsche during the time I lived in Germany, and I was looking at some modifications, and thats what the TUV back then told me.

You have something very similar in the U.S.A. : If you take a Harley-Davidson, make some major changes (e.g change it to a specialised custom frame), but keep lets say engine, wheels and other things original , then this is NOT a Harley anymore and you would have to show it to the DMV here and it would NOT be able to be registred as a Harley-Davidson anymore....

I hope what I write makes sense as it is directly from technocrats hell.....

 

[jake11375]

From the RUF website:

Alois Ruf's understanding of the strengths and inherent sporting characteristics of the Porsche 911 led to the company's concentration on this model as the platform for all of its future automotive developments. This proved to be a wise and successful choice and has become the backbone of RUF production for the past thirty years.

The first RUF enhanced Porsche model made its debut in 1975. Two years later, the turbocharged 911 engine, which was enlarged to 3.3 liters by RUF through the use of larger pistons, had a distinct performance increase compared to the standard Por-sche Turbo model. This was followed in 1978 by the development of a 217 bhp 3.2 liter version of the six cylinder naturally aspirated 3.0 liter engine Porsche offered (which was far below its true performance potential). This conversion was favorably received by sports car enthusiasts worldwide and resulted in numerous orders.

Plain and simple, I don't care how it is technically defined. Porsche is the manufacturer, RUF modifies Porsches. It may wear a RUF badge, but it initially wore the Porsche badge. So it is a Porsche with RUF modifications and badges. After reading the history of RUF, it has continued in it's modification of Porsches up to the current 997, as stated. "At the Essen Motor Show in November 2004, RUF presented the RUF Rt 12. This latest RUF turbo is based on the 997 Carrera, with a 650 bhp 3.8 liter twin turbo en-gine."

 

[Smoke_U_24/7]

Have you ever been up close and personal with a modern RUF?

From your comment I seriously doubt it, the RGT share almost no original components with the GT3, the engine internals, suspension, brakes, interior and most bodypanels are not Porsche components. It may share the same layout and bodyshape as a Porsche, but that does not make it a Porsche

The German government (and most EU authorities) and the American government recognise RUF as a seperate manufacturer. The motor industry recognises them as a Manufacturer. Its not PC in any way shape or form, its fact. You may not agree, as is your right, but it does not change that basic fact. Consider it PC all you want, RUF are an automotive manufacturer.

What doesn't make it a Porsche is that the body should not look anything like a Porsche, which what isn't RUF's case at all. All I'm saying is that RUF takes another's manufacturer's car, upgrades it, and calls it there own,
But the body is still the same. The front headlights are the same. The rear headlights are the same. The body shape is the same. Those RUF's are Porsches in my eyes. If you want to call them a 'manufacturer', then you are sadly mistaken besause none of there cars are an idea that was not based on a porsche.

Most 'Tuners' do not go to anywere near the level of modification that RUF do, and when the do the manufacturer of the original car would not recognise the car as original (such as the Amuse Carbon R). The difference is that most do not put them into production as models in there own right.

Well, let's look at Tommy Kaira. They tune lot's of Skyline's and renames them, don't they? But in that pack of quick, agile monsters, there is two that's completely different, the ZZ2 and ZZ3. If I'm missing some, that's ok because the point is that Tommy Kaira has made there own machines, contrived from there own toughts and ideas, and not based on others. I have yet to see RUF do that.

BTW Techart do call themselves a manufacturer, from the Techart website.

" In 1995, TECHART achieved the status of an approved vehicle manufacturer with a globally valid VIN number, and over the recent years, TECHART has developed special vehicles like the incredible supercharged CT3 based on the 993 Carrera"

Same thing for RUF, If they haven't made there very own car that's not a basis of another's they are truly a company. Accept this in any way you want, Fact or Opinion. To me, this is fact.

 

[jake11375]

So if I am a Porsche owner and I take my "Porsche" 911 to RUF and have them re-badge it, modify it to CTR exact specifications, who is the manufacturer? I would say Porsche... How can you come to any other conclusion?

 

[Scaff]

What doesn't make it a Porsche is that the body should not look anything like a Porsche, which what isn't RUF's case at all. All I'm saying is that RUF takes another's manufacturer's car, upgrades it, and calls it there own,
But the body is still the same. The front headlights are the same. The rear headlights are the same. The body shape is the same. Those RUF's are Porsches in my eyes. If you want to call them a 'manufacturer', then you are sadly mistaken besause none of there cars are an idea that was not based on a porsche.




Well, let's look at Tommy Kaira. They tune lot's of Skyline's and renames them, don't they? But in that pack of quick, agile monsters, there is two that's completely different, the ZZ2 and ZZ3. If I'm missing some, that's ok because the point is that Tommy Kaira has made there own machines, contrived from there own toughts and ideas, and not based on others. I have yet to see RUF do that.




Same thing for RUF, If they haven't made there very own car that's not a basis of another's they are truly a company. Accept this in any way you want, Fact or Opinion. To me, this is fact.

By you logic I can take an old 928, 944, etc, strip out every component and install the workings of a range of other cars, and as long as it still looks like a Porsche, then it still will be a Porsche.

Is a Noble really a Ford, after all most of the Switch gear is from Ford, as are the rear lights and the engine.

What about Alpina models, are they simply BMWs with the wrong badge. No, they are re-engineered to such a level that they are a car of totaly different characteristics that the model they were based on.

Another example is the Prodrive 550LM Road car, it starts life as a Ferrari 550, but the range of modifications to the car as so great that Ferrari themselves have said they will take legal action if any atempt to badge the final production cars as Ferrari's is made. They are Prodrive's not Ferraris.

Your argument is that a company is not a manufacturer if they base their model on something someone else has made, based on the argument only Daimler Crysler are a car manufacturer, as all cars that followed shared the same basic pattern. Your logic may suit how you wish to view the world, but you can not change the FACT that RUF models, Techart models, Gembella models, Alpinas, etc all carry seperate chassis numbers and are legally classed as seperatley manufactured cars.

 

[Scaff]

So if I am a Porsche owner and I take my "Porsche" 911 to RUF and have them re-badge it, modify it to CTR exact specifications, who is the manufacturer? I would say Porsche... How can you come to any other conclusion?

And every government world wide would say you are wrong, the car would leave the RUF factory with an RUF vin and any attempt you made to register it as a Porsche would fail.

You would also have a few issues with Porsche over warranty, they would class the car as an RUF, your Porsche warranty would now be nul and void, what a good job that RUF warranty all their models.

You seem to think that this is just a few tweaks to the car and its not, the car would be stripted to the bare chassis and rebuilt using almost exclusively RUF components, the vast majority of the body panels would be replaced with lighter (and slightly different shaped and styled) RUF parts.

It may look like a Porsche, but its not. In the same way that a GT40 kit replica may look like a GT40, but its not a GT40.

 

[jake11375]

And every government world wide would say you are wrong, the car would leave the RUF factory with an RUF vin and any attempt you made to register it as a Porsche would fail.

You would also have a few issues with Porsche over warranty, they would class the car as an RUF, your Porsche warranty would now be nul and void, what a good job that RUF warranty all their models.

You seem to think that this is just a few tweaks to the car and its not, the car would be stripted to the bare chassis and rebuilt using almost exclusively RUF components, the vast majority of the body panels would be replaced with lighter (and slightly different shaped and styled) RUF parts.

It may look like a Porsche, but its not. In the same way that a GT40 kit replica may look like a GT40, but its not a GT40.

Who is the original manufacturer? I'm well aware of the extent RUF takes the modifications, you don't have to resort to trying and insult my intelligence. The point I'm trying to make is RUF is not independant of Porsche. I don't care about all the technicalities and warranties, and whatnot. What it boils down to is, what originally was a Porsche has been modified into a RUF. You make my point with the GT40 example. Just cause you put GT40 parts on a replica doesn't make it a GT40 at heart. Just cause you put RUF parts (no matter the extent), it's still not a RUF at heart. It is a replica with GT40 parts, it is a Porsche with RUF parts.

 

[MustangSVT]

A RUF is not a Porsche. Get over it. The only way it's gonna be a "Porsche" is if Polyphony instead test drove several Porsche's in secret and designed the handling and mechanics of the RUF cars in their game from the Porsche's they tested.

 

[SRV2LOW4ME]

Basically, its like this. Buy a car, chop it up, rebuild it with your own custom made parts, and modify the body to how you want it. Now tell me who made it? Not the company you bout it from, over half their parts for the car are layin in a heap in the back yard. It becomes the makers car, as he designed most of the car.

Look at it this way, the Shelby Cobra isn't a Ford, and it isn't an SC, its a Shelby Cobra. But if you want to call the RUF's a Porsche, than you better say the Shelby Cobra doesn't exist, and that its a SC body with a Ford engine, cause in reality, thats all it is. Nuff said, and I believe this discussion is over. 👍

 

[Scaff]

Who is the original manufacturer? I'm well aware of the extent RUF takes the modifications, you don't have to resort to trying and insult my intelligence. The point I'm trying to make is RUF is not independant of Porsche. I don't care about all the technicalities and warranties, and whatnot. What it boils down to is, what originally was a Porsche has been modified into a RUF. You make my point with the GT40 example. Just cause you put GT40 parts on a replica doesn't make it a GT40 at heart. Just cause you put RUF parts (no matter the extent), it's still not a RUF at heart. It is a replica with GT40 parts, it is a Porsche with RUF parts.

I am not trying to insult your intelegence in any way, or trying to say that you have to agree with it, I am simply saying that from a legal standpoint the RGT, or any other RUF model is legally classed as an RUF not a Porsche.

If the car was a Porsche, then PD would have to have the rights from Porsche to include the cars in the game. However as legally RUF are classed as a seperate manufacturer, PD do not have to obtain the rights from anyone other than RUF.

Im not dismissing your opinion, just saying that from a purly factual legal standpoint its an RUF not a Porsche.

 

[jake11375]

I am not trying to insult your intelegence in any way, or trying to say that you have to agree with it, I am simply saying that from a legal standpoint the RGT, or any other RUF model is legally classed as an RUF not a Porsche.

If the car was a Porsche, then PD would have to have the rights from Porsche to include the cars in the game. However as legally RUF are classed as a seperate manufacturer, PD do not have to obtain the rights from anyone other than RUF.

Im not dismissing your opinion, just saying that from a purly factual legal standpoint its an RUF not a Porsche.

Cool. I completely understand that in the end, it is "legally" and "documented" RUF. I was simply saying the entire process of making a RUF begins with a Porsche. And Porsche is the original manufacturer. I take this example across the board. I know this is a "little" far-fetched, but say RUF modifies a Honda Civic with it's own developed chasis, engine, suspension, brakes, all the works, etc. but the overall car strongly resembles a modified Civic and this design changes as Honda changes the Civic model. Even though the badges and documentation say RUF, Honda was still the original manufacturer and you would have a hard time convincing your freinds or anyone else you were in fact driving a RUF. But the paperwork and VIN say so...

 

[Sti04]

Interesting. So I've seeing alot Ford Mustand with Saleen bodykit and engine. So are they still Ford Mustand or they are Saleen?

 

[vladimir]

i just read ford mustard.



anyway, the whole discussion is totally useless.

legally, RUF is a car manufacturer, as is any other tuner who applies dramatical changes to a car or indeed any car owner who tunes his car to a great extend.

realistically however, RUF is still a porsche tuner. they change a lot on those cars, but they still start with an already complete porsche and then develop their own version of it. of course they do not buy whole porsches for their own production later, they only buy the parts that they need directly from porsche. chassis, suspension, interior, body and engines are originally porsche developed however. RUF may change a lot or even built some parts of their own, but you can't deny that the cars were originally porsche devloped.

on their own website they state:

"RUF RGT

2004 stellt RUF seinen neuen RGT vor. Er basiert auf dem weiterentwickelten Porsche 996 Carrera[...]"

(in 2004 RUF presents its new RGT. it is based on the further developed porsche 996 carrera...)


and

"RUF Rturbo

Die als Komplettfahrzeug lieferbare Variante des Porsche 996 Turbo bietet RUF mit 520, 550 oder mit 590 PS an."

(the variation of the porsche 911 turbo, which can be delivered as a complete car, is offered by RUF with 520, 550 or 590 HP.)

 

[VXSSII]

Just like Holden & HSV's down here. HSV get the cars from Holden and tune them up. These cars are now sold as HSV's not Holdens.

 

[ZeratulSG]

Wow, a lot of people arguing the same thing from different points of view. Okay...

Fact: Ruf is a legal car manufacturer, meaning from a registration and ownership standpoint, legally they are not Porsche.

Fact: All Ruf models are derived from Porsche models. Without Porsche, there would be no Ruf. To the casual observer there is no distinction, Ruf's are mistaken for Porsche's. To the enthusiast, the difference is significant, though mainly non-cosmetic.

Ruf's are originally Porsche's, and while their modifications may be extensive, at heart they are Porsche's (however little of the original car is left). The chassis design was Porsche's and Ruf cannot claim this for themselves. They simply take an existing supercar and make it even better. I would say the same for Carroll Shelby when talking about the GT350/GT500.

So, everyone, Ruf is not a Porsche tuner legally, but they are realistically. Both sides of the fence need to just accept this, because I don't see anyone convincing anyone else of their viewpoint, and as someone who doesn't really care either way, this to me is the objective truth.

👍

*ducks under flame-retardant blanket*

 

[jake11375]

So, everyone, Ruf is not a Porsche tuner legally, but they are realistically. Both sides of the fence need to just accept this, because I don't see anyone convincing anyone else of their viewpoint, and as someone who doesn't really care either way, this to me is the objective truth.

Agreed... The whole thing just seems kind of silly to me. Considering the Civic example I proposed, I'm picturing police looking for a car registered and titled as a RUF when the car is visually recognized as a Honda Civic... Good luck identifying that vehicle. Oh well...

 

[jimihemmy]

Let me first say that in the end, we may all have to agree to disagree.......

RUF is a manufacturer. It does not matter how similar a car looks or what components it shares with others, if the modifications made to the car make it so distinctly different (as a whole vehicle) from the original, then it is a different vehicle altogether.

Here are a few examples....
Mazda 626 / Ford Probe: same basic chassis and even some shared components

Toyota Matrix / Toyota Voltz (Japan) / Pontiac Vibe: all basically the same car (even VERY similar in design)

The 4th Generation Chevy Nova could be known as Chevy Nova / Oldsmobile Omega / Pontiac Ventura / Buick Apollo: all again basically the same car but all are badged differently eventhough all of those manufacturers were under the same umbrella

The 1986 Chevy Nova was also a Toyota Sprinter / Toyota Corolla here in the US

The Chrysler Crossfire shares the same platform as the Mercedes-Benz SLK but that does not make it a Mercedes.....

My point is a lot of cars share something or another from some similar car around the world. That does not qualify it as whatever the original was....
If enough is done to the car, it becomes a totally separate car and gets branded as such from the manufacturer....