Possible replacements for The Cereal Box?

[Casio]

Coming from someone who has no taste in cars what so ever, OK. Plus a VN-VR will handle better than that R31.

I actually spent a few years being driven around in an VR SS and that thing was an noisy land barge, and that was when it was new, and the VN-VR had the worst and the most bogan interior of all time. Only reason you'd buy an old Commodore now is because you like being picked up by the cops and attempting to pick up dirty slappers on the street by whistling out the window.

R31's are sweet tasteful actually. Not tasteful as Saabs, but I'd rock one.

 

[Paulie]

As I've driven both cars (R31 & VR) I'll disagree. The VR is a bucket of 🤬 that's overfull compared to the R31!! The only good side about the VR is that you could supercharge that buick motor and get it to do 10's down the 1/4. You can find it on youtube, I'm that brain dead today that I can't even find it.

What, did you drive a stock suspension VR? Seriously, you guys are clueless.

Edit: Casio why do all your posts wreak of troll? Seriously, you can't even use proper grammar?

 

[Casio]

I've personally driven a R31 and a stock VS (Which was like, a decade newer) and the R31 would run bloody rings around it. Commodores always handled like complete ass until the VT, then it was still ass but slightly less so.

 

[Paulie]

I've personally driven a R31 and a stock VS (Which was like, a decade newer) and the R31 would run bloody rings around it. Commodores always handled like complete ass until the VT, then it was still ass but slightly less so.

See, now this quote is just plain incorrect. Besides, I'm not talking about a stock VS, I'm talking about a VN-VR which is lighter, and at least some lowered suspension, and a V6!

 

[Jay]

Plus a VN-VR will handle better than that R31.

Sorry I dissagree, I have driven a R31 Silhouette for a couple weeks (my sisters old car) and owned a VP and driven multiple VN-VR's. The R31 easily handled better especially with quick weight transition, the Commodores got very sloppy epecially at higher speeds, but they are roomier and more comfortable no doubt. This is stock for stock with non SS models, I have driven a some SS's and they were a different story. Personally VB-VL's feel much more sure footed than VN-VS (non SS's).


Aussie R30 models on the other hand are actually similar to the Commodores, soft and they don't give me confidence at higher speed.

 

[Paulie]

Would you just stop comparing with stock suspension? Stock suspension on Commodores are all like a country pack, 10 feet off the ground. Now I've driven my brother's VN with light suspension work, and keep in mind I've also driven XR5s, XR6s, XR4s and various other things like a Golf for example, I'm telling you the VN handles well. The V8 wouldn't handle nearly as well, but would still be heaps of fun to drive.

I think we can stop discussing this here though as it's getting off topic, the OP clearly has no interest in Commodores regardless of what his real reasons may be.

 

[mafia_boy]

What, did you drive a stock suspension VR? Seriously, you guys are clueless.

I just tell you that I drove both and you call me clueless, good on you for trying to troll me but it won't work. If you want to compare the FE2 suspension vs STOCK suspension for the R31 (FE2 is a factory option, not standard on all models!), then you can be misguided but STOCK vs STOCK on the suspension side, the R31 absolutely wipes the floor with the VR. And unlike Casio, the VR I drove was a Commodore Berlina V6 sedan. Since you wanted to say that VR's are MUCH lighter I went and checked it out.

VR Commodore weight: 1375Kg
R31 Skyline: Between 1320 and 1395kg, depending on model.

VR Commodore source!
R31 Skyline source!

So your point there is invalid.

Edit: Casio why do all your posts wreak of troll? Seriously, you can't even use proper grammar?

You point that out to Casio when you can't use proper spelling, it's REEK, not wreak. Wreak is for when you wreak havoc upon someone. Reek is when something smells wrong.

 

[Jay]

Would you just stop comparing with stock suspension? Stock suspension on Commodores are all like a country pack, 10 feet off the ground. Now I've driven my brother's VN with light suspension work, and keep in mind I've also driven XR5s, XR6s, XR4s and various other things like a Golf for example, I'm telling you the VN handles well. The V8 wouldn't handle nearly as well, but would still be heaps of fun to drive.

I think we can stop discussing this here though as it's getting off topic, the OP clearly has no interest in Commodores regardless of what his real reasons may be.

Why would I talk anything but stock suspension cars? This isn't some sort of tuner thread.

Sure the VN-VS is much better with good suspension no doubt, but so is pretty much every car.

 

[Paulie]

I just tell you that I drove both and you call me clueless, good on you for trying to troll me but it won't work. If you want to compare the FE2 suspension vs STOCK suspension for the R31 (FE2 is a factory option, not standard on all models!), then you can be misguided but STOCK vs STOCK on the suspension side, the R31 absolutely wipes the floor with the VR. And unlike Casio, the VR I drove was a Commodore Berlina V6 sedan. Since you wanted to say that VR's are MUCH lighter I went and checked it out.

VR Commodore weight: 1375Kg
R31 Skyline: Between 1320 and 1395kg, depending on model.

VR Commodore source!
R31 Skyline source!

So your point there is invalid.

I said lighter than a VS. Oh, and look out, I make ONE spelling mistake, now go and re-read that other post of his, he's an Australian and should know the English language far better.

Oh, and Jay, anyone who intends on using either an R31 or early Commodore for sporting use and doesn't modify it in some way or another is foolish. Comparing the handling as they were when they left the factory is futile, nobody would use them in that specification who game a damn about handling.

Honestly, I can't make a simple suggestion for a perfectly reasonable car that fits his criteria near exactly, without having all the haters in here come out and attack. This forum offers a well and truly one-sided opinion of the automotive industry that heavily favours the Japanese, I feel sorry for anyone coming here asking for advice.

 

[Jay]

Oh, and Jay, anyone who intends on using either an R31 or early Commodore for sporting use and doesn't modify it in some way or another is foolish. Comparing the handling as they were when they left the factory is futile, nobody would use them in that specification who game a damn about handling.

Then compare them when both have good aftermarket suspensions, I think the R31 will still come out on top... but then how far do you take it with the endless possibilities? No I think comparing stock for stock is a better, especially when he isn't going to be turning it into a track car.

 

[Paulie]

Meh. I don't see the point in comparing stock suspension on low model cars when the manufacturer doesn't design them to handle well, they design them for other things, like ground clearance and comfort. It completely and utterly masks the chassis' capability. I don't think the R31 will come out on top. You don't have to get crazy, just a simple shocks and springs change is all you really need to start getting a good idea.

 

[mafia_boy]

Honestly, I can't make a simple suggestion for a perfectly reasonable car that fits his criteria near exactly, without having all the haters in here come out and attack. This forum offers a well and truly one-sided opinion of the automotive industry that heavily favours the Japanese, I feel sorry for anyone coming here asking for advice.

I'm a hater now, oh joy!

I suggested the VL which is Aussie, and the other cars I put up will provide the most bang for buck, and I don't care whether they're Japanese models or not, the best car is the best car.

 

[Paulie]

I'm a hater now, oh joy!

I suggested the VL which is Aussie, and the other cars I put up will provide the most bang for buck, and I don't care whether they're Japanese models or not, the best car is the best car.

No, but anyone owning a Commdore is a bogan right? Seriously, any time I mention the word Commodore on here everyone starts knocking me for it, I find it both frustrating and sad to always see the exact same opinion represented all the time on here. Anything else is shot down with a large cannon. I'm also betting the only reason you suggested the VL is because it had an RB30, however I'm here to tell you the VN and onwards are much better cars. So if you're happy to suggest the VL, what's wrong with the later and better models?

 

[mafia_boy]

No, but anyone owning a Commdore is a bogan right? Seriously, any time I mention the word Commodore on here everyone starts knocking me for it, I find it both frustrating and sad to always see the exact same opinion represented all the time on here. Anything else is shot down with a large cannon. I'm also betting the only reason you suggested the VL is because it had an RB30, however I'm here to tell you the VN and onwards are much better cars. So if you're happy to suggest the VL, what's wrong with the later and better models?

Actually, I suggested the VL because it's the Skyline's twin from another company, that was it. I'm not one who thinks that ALL Commodore drivers are bogans, far from it, but it is a stereotype of the bogan to be:

a) Wearing a flannelet shirt
b) Drinking VB
c) Smoking Winfield Blue's
d) Driving a Commodore

Am I right or not??

 

[Paulie]

Or a feral Ute, or any kind of fourbie, or an R31 Skyline, or a Falcon.........

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Bloody Aussies.

Commodore this, Falcon that, import something else. Always.

Semi on-topic: What if Mafs feels that the later models aren't better than the VL? "Better" is always subjective. To some people, more space and more power automatically means better but then to others it'll be handling capability that matters.

Personally as long as whatever it is fulfills a purpose outside of point A to point B transport it's worth something. A truck is worth something because it can haul stuff; a van is worth something because it can haul people. A car can't do either particularly well so it better be either very refined or very fun at any time you're using it. If it is neither then it is not really of any use.

 

[Paulie]

Bloody Aussies.

Commodore this, Falcon that, import something else. Always.

Semi on-topic: What if Mafs feels that the later models aren't better than the VL? "Better" is always subjective. To some people, more space and more power automatically means better but then to others it'll be handling capability that matters.

The VN-VS handles better, gets better fuel economy, has more space inside, has more power, does pretty much everything better than a VL.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Subjective, okay, meh, okay.

In that order. If the way the VL acts is preferable to the VN-VS to a certain person by enough to sway them in its favor then that's that and there's nothing to argue about. Also, sheer grip =/= handling.

 

[mafia_boy]

The VN-VS handles better, gets better fuel economy, has more space inside, has more power, does pretty much everything better than a VL.

Tell that to a person who owns a VL Turbo Paulie. The only models in that whole series from VL-VS that were faster than the VLT was from HSV (VN Grp A, VR GTS & VS GTS-R). Even the VP SV5000, Clubsport & Senator were slower than the VL Turbo, that's how underrated the VLT truly was.

 

[Paulie]

Yeah the VL Turbo was a pretty neat piece of kit, doesn't mean it handled better though. If anything, given a similar suspension setup, it would have handled worse than the atmo car with all that added weight. It's a shame practically all VL Turbos either end up as drag cars or show cars.

So am I to assume then that the OP is completely un-interested in Commodores and this discussion was for nothing? If anyone wants to continue this, please bring it to PM.

 

[Small_Fryz]

Seriously though, for sub 5k, could you get yourself a decent GOLF GTI? or maybe a BMW 318i 1994?

personally it would be hard to go past a 1994/5 BMW 318i, which for the record would be better than a commodore of the same era.

 

[homeforsummer]

Honestly, I can't make a simple suggestion for a perfectly reasonable car that fits his criteria near exactly, without having all the haters in here come out and attack. This forum offers a well and truly one-sided opinion of the automotive industry that heavily favours the Japanese, I feel sorry for anyone coming here asking for advice.

Quit playing the victim Paulie, if you didn't rise to the bait every single time anyone makes even a slightly biased comment against Holdens these sort of arguements wouldn't happen.

You shouldn't throw stones in glass houses too. The members of this forum are anything but one sided, and I can think of several people who are very passionate about European and American cars, significantly more than they are about Japanese cars.

If anyone appears one-sided in these sort of discussions, it's you when flying the Holden flag...

 

[Murcie_LP640]

So am I to assume then that the OP is completely un-interested in Commodores and this discussion was for nothing? If anyone wants to continue this, please bring it to PM.

Yep, completely un-interested in them.

Small-Fryz: The 3-series in general is very tempting but I've been told that the 318i is slow as a wet wig and that if a four-cyl Beamer is on the cards it should be a 318is. Are there any pros/cons concerning the 4-cyl compared to the 6-cyl? Fuel economy isn't really that much of a concern, either one is going to be better on fuel than the R31 anyway.

 

[Small_Fryz]

To go for a 6cyl, you will need an older model, or pay more. Older model normally = higher km's and more stuff could break.

I guess at the end of the day you just have to make sure you try to get a nice car in good condition. I got a mate who had a 1995 318 and the ride was very good and it handled great and was brilliant on the highway. Sure it wont be winning any drag races but for the money and practicality... i dont see a lot of other options outside a slightly modified commodore / S13 / 180sx, and id be willing to bet they have a much higher chance of being thrashed, but in saying that the parts and repairs would cost less.

 

[Jay]

Are there any pros/cons concerning the 4-cyl compared to the 6-cyl?

4cyl version is cheaper to buy in the first place, cheaper to run (as you mentioned), cheaper to register.

 

[Casio]

What, did you drive a stock suspension VR? Seriously, you guys are clueless.

Edit: Casio why do all your posts wreak of troll? Seriously, you can't even use proper grammar?

Yeah I forgot that anyone who says anything bad about completely average family sedans is a troll.

I'd continue this discussion but I actually have to go and make some comparisons between different cars with random hypothetical modifications and decide which would handle the best.

PS: In case everyone doesn't know. IMMA TROLL THE JUDGES.HAVE SPOKKKKEN

 

[Small_Fryz]

1991 525i $5990

1993 325i $6000

1991 520i $7500

Honourable mention because its quite clean and has good comments
1991 525i $6500

I as you can see by the top 2, they both have over 200,000km. In order to get one with lower km (the bottom one) you have to pay more. I personally think those options are quite good, but just got to be careful and make sure you get the car checked out before you buy. No reason why they cant be in quite good condition even with a 200,000km on the clock.


And Brad... You make me laugh let me know how your hypothetical comparisment goes!! Ive got a pretty sweet hypothetical S13 that id like to put up against your winner

 

[mafia_boy]

That hypothetical S13 has no chance against my hypothetical JZA80!

 

[Casio]

That hypothetical S13 has no chance against my hypothetical JZA80!

Yeah but what if the hypothetical S13 has hypothetical suspension mods and the JZA80 is stock????

Relatively on topic, would a FWD or AWD car suffice? Those BMWs are decent cars but it's a lot of money to spend on a 20 year old car with over 200,00km. You can get this 6cyl 1997 A4 Quattro for less then that '91 520i, with less KM too You can get mid to late 90s FWD 6Cyl A4s too for less then 6k.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I did take a look at the Audi A4 and A3, and they would have to be a couple of exceptions to my strictly "no FWD" ruling.

The A3 in particular I think looks good with a set of nice wheels and lowered springs and I don't mind the bodywork either. The A4 on the other hand is a direct competitor to the 3-series, but which of them is actually better to drive? Audi/VAG's 1.8L last time I checked is more powerful on paper than the 318i's engine, but are there any major differences in handling and feel aside from the drive types, and is the Quattro AWD less reliable than, say, Subaru's Symmetrical AWD?