Project CARS 2 General Discussion Thread - Out Now on PS4/XB1/PC

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Just for reference:
RallyCross Lites Regional(entry level rallycross, tier 4) Ice Racing championship, Rallycross of Loheac AI lap times and difficulty adjustments:

100% :40.328 (Heat 1)
90% :40.189 (Heat 2)
80% :41.715 (Heat 3)
85% :40.073 (Heat 4)
82% :40.863 (Semi and Final)

Again pretty tough to make adjustments with that. For what it's worth my best(by a couple tenths) was :41.570. Won heat 3 by over 5 seconds, the others I was either holding them up the whole way and trying to stay even after the joker on the last lap or behind with no chance.

Can't compare to records as there is no Ice TT here(their fastest 100% at Sampala was .8 seconds faster than WR, second fastest bot time dead even with WR). Fortunately they are terrible off the line and on the Joker... unfortunately they have zero concern about punting you all over the place... but fortunately they back out in other spots. They tended to be very slow in the dirt rallies(100% usually a runaway for me), although they were fairly fast at Loheac. In the dry there they are 1 second off the WR and half a second faster than me. But in the ice events they are really really quick.

Top bots in these rallycross events tend to be pretty consistent and keep making the finals, so you have to be too. Tricky stuff to balance. Fun driving but you almost need the bots a little faster to make up for some of their dumb-ness with most joker laps. Being able to actually make relatively small adjustments to their pace would be nice.
 
Morgoth_666
Just for reference:
RallyCross Lites Regional(entry level rallycross, tier 4) Ice Racing championship, Rallycross of Loheac AI lap times and difficulty adjustments:

Top bots in these rallycross events tend to be pretty consistent and keep making the finals, so you have to be too. Tricky stuff to balance. Fun driving but you almost need the bots a little faster to make up for some of their dumb-ness with most joker laps. Being able to actually make relatively small adjustments to their pace would be nice.
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Heard that racing in RX class generally difficult even in lowest settings, but myself experience absolutely different results. Yes they somehow do those crazy times, but somehow loosing everything on a track and I usually ending up with a big gap from top AI. It is all true for 79%, because I didn't changed a thing in default set up, but they indeed do the same time over the lap there. Ice track no different, for me to, they still somehow having faster laps in graphs, but behind far away in reality.
 
Bloodytears
Heard that racing in RX class generally difficult even in lowest settings, but myself experience absolutely different results. Yes they somehow do those crazy times, but somehow loosing everything on a track and I usually ending up with a big gap from top AI. It is all true for 79%, because I didn't changed a thing in default set up, but they indeed do the same time over the lap there. Ice track no different, for me to, they still some how having faster laps in graphs, but behind far away in reality.
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Indeed, the best lap times are not a good guide to how fast they are overall(in Rallycross). In this event they were much faster than me at best(and they were faster if in front, they would pull away), but they make enough mistakes to wipe out some of that and seem to be really bad at all the joker laps. Their best-of-best times often seem to be related to one corner where they try to go at an impossible speed, sometimes can't make it and have to slow down, but sometimes get through at amazing pace. I do see very similar best times in almost every race, but it doesn't seem to be every lap.

So when I am about even with them, a decent race for me means I win by a few seconds. If I'm a second or so ahead I win by 10 seconds in 4 laps. When they seem clearly faster than me they're breathing down my neck all race but as long as I don't make a mistake and let them by I can usually win or podium, often comes down to timing the joker correctly. I did barely win the ice Loheac round overall but only by taking advantage of their weaknesses(and some quick hands when they tried to bash me out of the way). If they got in front there was nothing I could do but watch them drive away.

Having fun with RX anyway as somebody who doesn't spend much time off-road. It's a nice change of pace from the usual events. They do seem far faster in the ice than in the dirt though, I'm interested to see if they get faster in the higher tiers. So far I've seen very little change in AI pace that doesn't seem related to car or track differences. I've read that they are supposed to be faster in higher tiers and in the "major" second championships in each series but my notes don't show any sign of that yet, just a few specific cars that they drive much faster than me.
 
@Morgoth_666 On Ice track generally you slower, not them faster. They doesn't have those grip issues, the same with a puddles, so they go full speed all the course. But not going to lie, they amazed me, how good they can hold dirt and drift for instance. Also it is always funny to see their bumpers all around the track, and wonder what made so perfect AI to loose that in process.

To add, it better was Golf GTi TC, than Polo WRC in this game. But as Volkswagen fan, I can't miss it. Will got for full RX season to unleash my inner Sebastian.
 
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Chikane
This is why i love the AI in pcars 2 they race you not try to kill you like in that crappy grid game.
If this was grid this ai car would had hit me right into the wall for no reason.
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May be I have set up something wrong, but they don't do it in my game. In a recent Indie 500 race, that was their favorite move to move me into the wall, or cut of on inside, even through ain't dive there, just turned at the same time.

Few days ago on Les-Essarts AI just dive bombed me at second corner, performing their favorite overtake, dive into inside and magically drift back into a line.
 
@IfAndOr I have them at 60 in career, the same you suggesting. I want to lower it, but heard probably a false hint, that this will prevent them from overtaking each other, which they don't do even on 100, but it's right to believe in something, isn't it?

Can't help, but seems they have something personal with my driving style, and usually never recognize me on a track. Not only pushing me off, but simply randomly break checking me sometimes, wich makes hard even to race behind them. Still can't complete Sanremo invitational event because of this. Porsche seems a little bit slower accelerating than other machines, to note none of them using 924 there, and this crate just a hell of punches from every possible side. You said they a bit toned down with full damage, so I'm seriously fear to turn off damage now.
 
Any particular reason the DS3 has two sets of identical liveries?

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I bought the game about a year ago and quickly got frustrated, but I've given it another chance lately, as GT Sport's AI isn't compelling, and Assetto Corsa is lacking in content/options, particularly multi-class, endurance, and night racing.

But good lord, Project Cars 2 is confusing. I honestly feel the second time around I can get some good offline racing out of it, but it's such a battle to find that balance with the AI.

The tyres seem to be my biggest point of frustration, as the first race I did was an hour at Nurburgring GP, won fairly handily and thought I needed to turn the AI up, only to realize they were all running on hards while I was the only one on softs... and I was honestly shocked the soft compound lasted an hour. So I ran another race this morning at Sugo on hards with the AI turned slightly down and finished right the mid-pack, which is great because I'm looking for good racing and not wins being handed to me.

Does the AI always use the "automatically set by weather" tyre choice? And what determines whether they use hard or soft? Basically I'm just trying to understand if the AI actually employs tyre strategy. Am I just thinking too much from an F1 perspective? Honestly I'm not sure if real GT3 series typically use tyre strategies or if it's solely dependent on conditions.
 
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astrarobotica
Does the AI always use the "automatically set by weather" tyre choice? And what determines whether they use hard or soft?
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I've never actually experimented to see what tyres the AI are using but it's maybe the skill level slider that has an effect on their selection.
A skill level setting of 80 or higher will allow the opposition AI drivers to dynamically adjust their driving style away from the default to cope with changing conditions or specific tracks.
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I usually run just below the threshold, at 77, and start at the back.

I don't think they use a tyre strategy as such, it's probably more what's best at the time.
 
I don't know that they don't ever use different tires, but I've personally never seen them run on a different dry tire than the first one I checked(I usually do run above 80% difficulty so their setups theoretically do get tweaked). Almost all of the time that means hards. It should usually be hards for the human player in most cars too, but even when it is really cold I've seen all of the bots on hard tires. There are a few cars in certain classes -- as well as some whole classes like Group C -- that seem to run softs all the time. I don't always check so they may vary but I've never observed it.

That said, their tires behave quite differently to yours anyway so it's not a direct comparison to you. They seem largely if not completely unaffected by temperature, so in very cold weather they will be much faster than you on hards when you'll have no problem keeping up on the same tires when it's warm. They also don't wear the same way yours do - they will chew up a set of tires completely in a full fuel load when you could do two or even three stints on one set.

We've been told they do technically have different tires for wet conditions but I've never seen evidence in career - if it is fully wet for a career race but dries almost completely in the last couple of laps they can run literally the same times on wets without pitting as they can on slicks on a dry day. I just recently confirmed this -- only one sample though -- at Fuji in GT4 Porsches(100% 1:48.300-dry) where I've also run in full GT4(100% 1:48.142-porsche on old wets). You can't do that on your own wets which are worn out by then and seem to be slower even when fresh. I know they become impossible to keep up with in the reverse situation of a track getting soaked on the last two laps but you really can't compare lap times in that case even if you tried. Their pace seems to just be based on track conditions(not confirmed in quick race mode but everything else seems consistent), but they do always pit for an appropriate tire change unless there's only a lap or two left. This is only really an issue in these extreme cases of course, but I find their balance to me is always far different wet vs dry anyway - sometimes one way, sometimes the other.


You just have to run the tires that are best for you and use difficulty to get the bots right. I haven't tested every car by any means but in most cases soft tires are supposed to be designed to last for just about an entire fuel tank while hards will last much longer. When the series allows changing tires and taking fuel simultaneously I usually change them anyway unless trying to gain some emergency time late in a race, but you often don't really need to change them every time. Wet tires don't seem to last very long at all.
 
Morgoth_666
I don't know that they don't ever use different tires, but I've personally never seen them run on a different dry tire than the first one I checked(I usually do run above 80% difficulty so their setups theoretically do get tweaked). Almost all of the time that means hards. It should usually be hards for the human player in most cars too, but even when it is really cold I've seen all of the bots on hard tires. There are a few cars in certain classes -- as well as some whole classes like Group C -- that seem to run softs all the time. I don't always check so they may vary but I've never observed it.

That said, their tires behave quite differently to yours anyway so it's not a direct comparison to you. They seem largely if not completely unaffected by temperature, so in very cold weather they will be much faster than you on hards when you'll have no problem keeping up on the same tires when it's warm. They also don't wear the same way yours do - they will chew up a set of tires completely in a full fuel load when you could do two or even three stints on one set.

We've been told they do technically have different tires for wet conditions but I've never seen evidence in career - if it is fully wet for a career race but dries almost completely in the last couple of laps they can run literally the same times on wets without pitting as they can on slicks on a dry day. I just recently confirmed this -- only one sample though -- at Fuji in GT4 Porsches(100% 1:48.300-dry) where I've also run in full GT4(100% 1:48.142-porsche on old wets). You can't do that on your own wets which are worn out by then and seem to be slower even when fresh. I know they become impossible to keep up with in the reverse situation of a track getting soaked on the last two laps but you really can't compare lap times in that case even if you tried. Their pace seems to just be based on track conditions(not confirmed in quick race mode but everything else seems consistent), but they do always pit for an appropriate tire change unless there's only a lap or two left. This is only really an issue in these extreme cases of course, but I find their balance to me is always far different wet vs dry anyway - sometimes one way, sometimes the other.


You just have to run the tires that are best for you and use difficulty to get the bots right. I haven't tested every car by any means but in most cases soft tires are supposed to be designed to last for just about an entire fuel tank while hards will last much longer. When the series allows changing tires and taking fuel simultaneously I usually change them anyway unless trying to gain some emergency time late in a race, but you often don't really need to change them every time. Wet tires don't seem to last very long at all.
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That's really informative, thank you! The AI running on different tyre physics is the big reason I quit the first time. The way AI can just accelerate out of some corners is just frustrating. It's a shame; the game has so much content and options for custom races, but the discrepancy in the handling is disappointing. F1 2019 has the best AI I've seen in a sim, but I like GT more than open-wheel. Assetto Corsa's AI feels much more fair, but the content and options are lacking. Hopefully ACC is well-optimized on consoles because it seems to be the perfect middle-ground for what I want.
 
astrarobotica
That's really informative, thank you! The AI running on different tyre physics is the big reason I quit the first time. The way AI can just accelerate out of some corners is just frustrating. It's a shame; the game has so much content and options for custom races, but the discrepancy in the handling is disappointing. F1 2019 has the best AI I've seen in a sim, but I like GT more than open-wheel. Assetto Corsa's AI feels much more fair, but the content and options are lacking. Hopefully ACC is well-optimized on consoles because it seems to be the perfect middle-ground for what I want.
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All AI has some annoying problems or other. They almost always do some things you can't and are really stupid about some other things. You just learn what they do and how to deal with it and work with them. Or you get annoyed and quit. Usually I can find a way to co-exist with them, I think the only game I ever gave up on purely because of the AI was one of the MotoGP games, maybe 13. I played it quite a while but eventually couldn't take it anymore. They were just too hard to work around and the slightest contact would wipe you out. I need to play more ACC but I haven't got around to it in ages since before the full release, and was put off by racing the bots affecting your online ratings so never really messed with them so can't compare.

I can't speak to how PC2 works on console, just on PC. My main issue with the AI in PC2 is their inability to see you at times and inability to not attempt a pass as soon as they get close resulting in some really boneheaded contact... usually it can be dealt with but when you get unlucky it is really annoying(and you almost can't race close with them in flimsy single seaters). They just weren't trained to properly avoid foolish behavior. You can turn down aggressiveness but that only seems to help when they are properly aware of what's going on - and that's usually the problem. Pace issues themselves aren't really a major deal as it's not that hard to adjust the difficulty... usually. Sometimes changing it seems to have no effect until they are suddenly far slower/faster from another small adjustment. They take a few spots better than you and a few others worse which you can occasionally see are a physics mismatch, much like most any game(very very few approximate the player's physics accurately). And when weather changes mid-race you unfortunately just have to accept either an easy win or an impossible loss(or a restart to try to fix it). I have plenty of other more minor complaints but there's plenty wrong with bots in every game, just different stuff.
 
Morgoth_666
All AI has some annoying problems or other. They almost always do some things you can't and are really stupid about some other things. You just learn what they do and how to deal with it and work with them. Or you get annoyed and quit. Usually I can find a way to co-exist with them, I think the only game I ever gave up on purely because of the AI was one of the MotoGP games, maybe 13. I played it quite a while but eventually couldn't take it anymore. They were just too hard to work around and the slightest contact would wipe you out. I need to play more ACC but I haven't got around to it in ages since before the full release, and was put off by racing the bots affecting your online ratings so never really messed with them so can't compare.

I can't speak to how PC2 works on console, just on PC. My main issue with the AI in PC2 is their inability to see you at times and inability to not attempt a pass as soon as they get close resulting in some really boneheaded contact... usually it can be dealt with but when you get unlucky it is really annoying(and you almost can't race close with them in flimsy single seaters). They just weren't trained to properly avoid foolish behavior. You can turn down aggressiveness but that only seems to help when they are properly aware of what's going on - and that's usually the problem. Pace issues themselves aren't really a major deal as it's not that hard to adjust the difficulty... usually. Sometimes changing it seems to have no effect until they are suddenly far slower/faster from another small adjustment. They take a few spots better than you and a few others worse which you can occasionally see are a physics mismatch, much like most any game(very very few approximate the player's physics accurately). And when weather changes mid-race you unfortunately just have to accept either an easy win or an impossible loss(or a restart to try to fix it). I have plenty of other more minor complaints but there's plenty wrong with bots in every game, just different stuff.
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I actually have the aggressiveness turned up to 100 haha, I'm pretty comfortable with their behavior, I just get easily frustrated when they zoom out of the corner exit at speeds I'm not capable of, even in identical cars. It's not a huge deal, but it's the only sim I've played where the physics discrepancy is that noticable, to me at least.
 
Mr Grumpy
100/100 & full damage = great fun :)

Might start pushing it to 105 or 110.

120/100 & full damage is fun starting at the front & trying to hold position.

I've got this game dialled to perfection, 75% of mistakes are normally my doing.
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100/100:eek:

I’m finally starting my 2nd career and I thought I was progressing to set it at 70. And, even that’s probably too high for me

You are my hero:bowdown:
 
slthree
100/100:eek:

I’m finally starting my 2nd career and I thought I was progressing to set it at 70. And, even that’s probably too high for me

You are my hero:bowdown:
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I will admit though on a wheel like @Sick Cylinder says I'm fine with default setups but with a controller I have to make setup adjustments to race with them settings as I have less car control.

I normally set the cars for a bit of front end slip so they're not as twitchy/grippy which allows a bit of slide (not the same as understeer) the cars still rotate well enough to turn a corner faster than the AI @ 100.

I can normally use engine braking @ 0 with most cars using this type of setup to help.

The downside of this is I do scrub the tyres more when using a controller as to when I use my TX.

But either way I'm happy using either. Just depends on weather I can be bothered to get the wheel out.

Sometimes I think I'll have a quick blast with the controller then 5 hrs later I'm still playing & think I could've got the wheel out :lol:
 
AvolA
I see a cloud... have you visited a shrink in the near past?

Btw: if you don't have all the DLC's for PC2, the Seasonpass for PS4 is €6,99 in the PS store now, which includes all DLC's but the Japanese cars one. Good luck.
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No i just have a really active imagination :lol:

Anyway this is what i see a quick photo shop outline of it

kcRo7ri.jpg
 
AvolA
Yeah.... i can definitely see the gorilla now ....


someone got his shrink's number?? he needs some more sessions i believe xD
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What's your problem?

Its what i see, i'm not saying its what everyone should see that's up to there imagination on what they see in that cloud.

Maybe you should try a little imagination youself :crazy:
 

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