Project CARS 2 sign up is open!

[GumShoe]

And I'm curious why some people always feel the need to critize the decision other people make and would like to share this decision.

I made a mistake, I wanted to say, no pCars2 for me. I did it with GTR (bought it) and never bought GTR2, NFS Shift, bought it and never bought NFG Shift2. This won't be any different. I won't be back (if you mean by that, that I'm going to get pCars2).

Thanks for the follow up, a bit clearer now

GTR2 appears to be one of the all time heralded sims for feature completeness and driving experience, so you may have missed out there! Anyway, personal choice is all good.

 

[skazz]

Yes, GTR2 was a vast step forwards from the original GTR. But Shift 2 was apparently worse than 1 (I boycotted Shift 2 because of the horrible input lag in Shift 1 and reviews implying same or worse in 2).

pCARS 2 is going to be a very different game from 1, because they are building the whole loose surface element on top. I'm also sure that another 2 years of development of their ludicrously complex tyre model will improve track driving feel in addition to the gravel, snow, ice, etc...

 

[kikie]

I have to admit that I don't have much trust in that Ian Bell guy. He's tooting his own horn way too much. He did it with nfs shift and he's doing it again with pCars.

It seems, and I have this information from another race game developer, that Assetto Corsa is more realistic than pCars.
I have also not much trust in pCars2. To me personal, it sounds more like a marketing ploy than anything else. I could be very wrong though.

 

[NLxAROSA]

It seems, and I have this information from another race game developer, that Assetto Corsa is more realistic than pCars.

Without sources/proof that's a statement that's not worth anything. Because on the other hand, I heard from a different race game developer that several professional drivers have said Project CARS is more realistic than the professional simulators they use in their teams. But that statement is also just here-say, doesn't mean squat without proof.

Fact is that simulations like AC and PC are now at a level where the average Joe (and yes that includes basically all simracers) can no longer discern wether a simulation is more true to life than the other. The only statements I keep hearing from the sim racing crowd are like this: AC is not like iRacing at all, so it's not realistic. Or PC is not realistic because it's not like AC. Sim racers need to get off their high horse, because you can't judge wether a sim is realistic compared to another sim, only when compared to real life.

Another fact is that both AC and PC are being used by professional race drivers and teams to train, so that should tell the general public something. The same does not apply to other sims, so that should again tell you something.

Another fact is that both AC and PC have their strong points as well as their weak points. PC has a vastly superior tire model + dynamic track grip (which PC2 will take even further!), while AC has superior suspension modeling, but is lacking in several other areas. So blanket statements like 'A is more realistic than B' are stupid. What it boils down to for most of us is mostly personal preference. I for one enjoy them both quite happily, but for different reasons.

 

[kikie]

Without sources/proof that's a statement that's not worth anything. Because on the other hand, I heard from a different race game developer that several professional drivers have said Project CARS is more realistic than the professional simulators they use in their teams. But that statement is also just here-say, doesn't mean squat without proof.

Fact is that simulations like AC and PC are now at a level where the average Joe (and yes that includes basically all simracers) can no longer discern wether a simulation is more true to life than the other. The only statements I keep hearing from the sim racing crowd are like this: AC is not like iRacing at all, so it's not realistic. Or PC is not realistic because it's not like AC. Sim racers need to get off their high horse, because you can't judge wether a sim is realistic compared to another sim, only when compared to real life.

Another fact is that both AC and PC are being used by professional race drivers and teams to train, so that should tell the general public something. The same does not apply to other sims, so that should again tell you something.

Another fact is that both AC and PC have their strong points as well as their weak points. PC has a vastly superior tire model + dynamic track grip (which PC2 will take even further!), while AC has superior suspension modeling, but is lacking in several other areas. So blanket statements like 'A is more realistic than B' are stupid. What it boils down to for most of us is mostly personal preference. I for one enjoy them both quite happily, but for different reasons.

My source was through a personal email, which I removed. It was just some information. I don't have to proof anything at all. You are making too much fuss about what I said because I didn't say it, the developer did.

I will never say which game is the more realistic game because I don't know, because I can't tell.

I'm not saying that either pCars or AC is the better game, I just repeated what this developer said to me. I like pCars and I like AC. Some things/features are better in pCars and some are better in AC.

I still don't know which of the two is the more realistic game. I even asked this here on GTP, if GTP members with real life experience (I meant to say race experience) can tell me which of the two is more realistic, because I can't say.

I know that teams are using certain sim as a training tool but probably not to learn how to drive a race car or how to set up their race cars. It is my understanding that teams are using sims as a training tool (in this case pCars and AC) because of the realistic and very accurate tracks. To learn the tracks, braking points etc... . Probably and most certainly not for the realisme of the tire model, suspension model, physics engine etc... .

 

[NLxAROSA]

My source was through a personal email, which I removed. It was just some information. I don't have to proof anything at all. You are making too much fuss about what I said because I didn't say it, the developer did.

Then why come in here and mention it with nothing to back it up? To incite a discussion? And then complain when somebody responds or asks for proof?

I know that teams are using certain sim as a training tool but probably not to learn how to drive a race car or how to set up their race cars. It is my understanding that teams are using sims as a training tool (in this case pCars and AC) because of the realistic and very accurate tracks. To learn the tracks, braking points etc... . Probably and most certainly not for the realisme of the tire model, suspension model, physics engine etc... .

You can't learn the braking points if the physics don't add up, because they'll be somewhere they won't be in real life. Or they would be using NFS instead, certainly a lot cheaper.

 

[blowfishrulez]

I would prefer this thread to go back on topic.

Kikies post was clearly disruptive and simply a provocation, because it implied that people who like PCars and want to participate in PCars 2 are somehow misguided or inferior, which is silly and...provocative.

You see, I own AC and I don't like it so much, for various reasons. And since I don't care much for it I have no incentive whatsoever to get in a AC forum to rub my opinion in everybody's face just to stir up something.

That is called flame baiting and not part of the common netiquette.

 

[gtracedriver1]

In my case, and the case of a few people I know, being a part of PCars2 has nothing to do with beta testing or getting the game anyway. I/we just want to be a part of the process, to see what happens behind the scenes and potentially to lobby for changes to make the game more user friendly. Frankly I can't see why anyone who is really into sim racing would not at least have their interest piqued by this opportunity.

TBH there are so many racing games that most people rather just wait for finished version of the game and then decide. Instead of playing beta version and participate in forum by paying and becoming a member. I see no reason for it. That is why I said it is ideally for passionate pcars fans only.

I also fear that is WMD might be used of every developer. Open, closed beta, demos, community all these were free, not so long ago

 

[NLxAROSA]

I doubt the WMD model will be used by every developer, but I do believe we'll see a rise in the amount of developers that use a similar model. And like you said, there's no need to join if all you want is the game, just wait for it to be finished. 👍 Also note that public beta and a WMD model are not necessarily mutually exclusive. Especially on consoles it could be the only way to get a lot of feedback.

 

[kikie]

Then why come in here and mention it with nothing to back it up? To incite a discussion? And then complain when somebody responds or asks for proof?

Absolutely not. Non of the above. If you don't believe me, than it that is your problem not mine. I've made posts like this in the past. And don't start with "why make such posts, stop making such posts ..."

I would prefer this thread to go back on topic.

Kikies post was clearly disruptive and simply a provocation, because it implied that people who like PCars and want to participate in PCars 2 are somehow misguided or inferior, which is silly and...provocative.

You see, I own AC and I don't like it so much, for various reasons. And since I don't care much for it I have no incentive whatsoever to get in a AC forum to rub my opinion in everybody's face just to stir up something.

That is called flame baiting and not part of the common netiquette.

A provocation? A provocation. Come on, what kind of BS is that. This post of yours is a provocation towards me.

It was never to be a provocation in any way. I just said what I said without any bad intentions. I'm not implying anything, that is what you make of it.

.Again, I had no bad intentions with that post, nor did I want to incite a discussion, what clearly happend but wasn't my intention, nor did I wanted somebody to ask me for proof. Why should I, I already removed the email. And I'm definitely not rubbing my opinion in everybody's face.
Your post is flame baiting with all your accusations towards me. At least @NLxAROSA stayed civilized but not you, no, you had to insult me as well @blowfishrulez Not nice of you.


Is still believe that AC has the better physics engine, tire model, suspension model and is way better than pCars.

Voilà, that is stiring the pot, not my previous posts.

Spoiler

Nope I don't believe that AC is the better game. I like both games, and I have said this in the official AC forum and in the pCars forum and I'm saying it on GTP as well.

Now we can go back on topic

 

[blowfishrulez]

Again, I had no bad intentions with that post, nor did I want to incite a discussion, what clearly happend but wasn't my intention, nor did I wanted somebody to ask me for proof

There you go, good intentions are usually the opposite of doing good. It happens though and reception happens always and only in the mind of the receiver, not the sender. If you received my comment as an insult, i apologize, it was not my intention.

 

[kikie]

There you go, good intentions are usually the opposite of doing good. It happens though and reception happens always and only in the mind of the receiver, not the sender. If you received my comment as an insult, i apologize, it was not my intention.

I wish more GTP members are as mature as you are. Makes the internet and GTP a better and more friendly place.

I salute you! You are now on my personal "GTP members that I like list".

 

[legatoblues]

A quick question for anyone who might have been involved in the WMD process for PCARS;
Can you give me an idea of just how much design suggestion / influence the members really have?

I'm sitting on the fence in regards to getting onboard for PCARS2, as whilst I see some incredible potential in it, there are some critical areas that I believe need some significant work. I would love to get involved in the community and help bring attention to the ideas that I believe would benefit the game, but I'm worried that as an individual, that my personal input and thoughts wouldn't have any platform for consideration.

Thoughts?

Thanks all.

 

[blowfishrulez]

Usually you will open a new thread and post an well written OP, preferably with sketches, videos and a list of things to consider. Interested Members will jump in on your thread and argue for or against it. If the thread gets enough traction, one of the SMS Staff will join the discussion and make you work do defend your proposal. At one point the request will either be accepted or rejected directly by SMS or it will come down to a Poll, if SMS is neutral on the issue.

Feedback and Bug Reports for the latest builds will always be read and somehow be answered by SMS.

 

[legatoblues]

Thanks for the insight, Blowfish. It definitely helped me get off the fence and into action.

 

[Spooky Wooky]

What was the budget for pCARS?

 

[blowfishrulez]

Funding on WMD came out at around 3,5 Million Euros. That was certainly not enough to keep SMS (130+ Staff, cost ~ 10.000 per Staff Member/Month) paid for 4 years so they had some invisible dark matter on top of that to finance the project.

Therefore, total cost is undisclosed and will stay undisclosed.

 

[NLxAROSA]

What also helps for an idea to gain traction is to create support for it yourself, e.g. by bouncing it off a few members in private and fine tuning it or modifying it a bit before making a thread for the whole community to see. And if areas are really critical, it's usually not very hard to gain support.

And even outside of WMD it always helps to create threads and discussions on sites like right here, because both SMS staff members and WMD members visit here regularly. 👍

 

[legatoblues]

I've already made my post, but I will keep that in mind as I become a more active member of the forum.

You can find my suggestions in general discussion under "Project Immersion - Creating a Universe". I'd really like to get some feedback from people who have plenty of WMD experience, so please take a look!

 

[eran0004]

Funding on WMD came out at around 3,5 Million Euros. That was certainly not enough to keep SMS (130+ Staff, cost ~ 10.000 per Staff Member/Month) paid for 4 years so they had some invisible dark matter on top of that to finance the project.

Therefore, total cost is undisclosed and will stay undisclosed.

The membership fees is roughly 10% of the development total. That's what they expect for PC2 anyway, so I guess it was in that neighbourhood for PC1 as well.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...S-2-Sign-Up-Now!/page29&p=1008747#post1008747

 

[GTAndy36]

Q for WMD people. When is the cut off date for new package signups on the PCARS2 dev forums?

 

[FLX1981]

Q for WMD people. When is the cut off date for new package signups on the PCARS2 dev forums?

6 days from now. http://www.virtualr.net/project-cars-2-signups-closing-week