Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

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Done a number of league races in a number of series and understanding how each series' tyres work is part of the interest in it for me. I've done IndyCar and endurance races which have required that and now they're pretty much dead.
 
paulpg87
But then it would be just pcars 2.5. This is shift 3. I hope for a full pcars 4 on ps5 even if i strongly believe this is the last one and they will move to btcc.
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No, its Project Cars 3, adding in elements to aid newcomers doesn't mean you have to throw out what appeals to a good number of people who have been supporters of the series since the first PC.
 
Just to balance the negative with the good.

Jussi Karjalainen: Handling QA Lead: All the good, dynamic tyre heating maths is still going in, and in many cases improved, just without the potential to overheat in the long term. All the dynamic situation-to-situation stuff is still there.

Casey Ringley: Vehicle Technical Art and Handling: Basically, while you have no actual wear in Project CARS 3, you’ve got multiple layers related to the heat model. Flash, Layer, Tread, and so on. Flash is the elements which touch and grip the track surface, Layer is an intermediate layer for diffusing heat energy, and Tread is the core bulk of tread rubber. All the heating dynamics in Flash and Layer still happen, we just lock temperature from Tread down through the rest of the model. I suppose a simpler way to put it is that the rubber layers influence tyre grip naturally at these time levels:

Kris Pope: Lead Designer: So yes, if you want to get out on-track on a cold morning at Spa and just go drive and tinker with your setup, that’s obviously still there. And actually, if you do, you’ll notice that the driving physics have been improved (we’ve really nailed the over the limit feel).

Doug Arnao: Physics and AI director: The AI has also responded well to this new direction and it makes them a lot more predictable and really human-like.

I'll take improved AI and more focussed physics than pits and strategy any day personally. But I do get why some will miss it.
 
Scaff
OK, this is not good news in my view.

https://www.projectcarsgame.com/three/news/developer-blog-1/

Looks like tyre wear is gone, fuel use is gone and pit stops are gone!

"The core tread temperature is locked"

"by removing tyre wear and fuel usage, we could in turn remove pitstops"

@IanBell - is this just in career or does it apply right the way across all modes?
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What in the world WHY?

How can it be call a sim with no tyre wear, fuel use and no and pit stops.

I spent most of my time in practice and its gonna be pretty weird without those features.
 
MagpieRacer
Just to balance the negative with the good.

Jussi Karjalainen: Handling QA Lead: All the good, dynamic tyre heating maths is still going in, and in many cases improved, just without the potential to overheat in the long term. All the dynamic situation-to-situation stuff is still there.

Casey Ringley: Vehicle Technical Art and Handling: Basically, while you have no actual wear in Project CARS 3, you’ve got multiple layers related to the heat model. Flash, Layer, Tread, and so on. Flash is the elements which touch and grip the track surface, Layer is an intermediate layer for diffusing heat energy, and Tread is the core bulk of tread rubber. All the heating dynamics in Flash and Layer still happen, we just lock temperature from Tread down through the rest of the model. I suppose a simpler way to put it is that the rubber layers influence tyre grip naturally at these time levels:

Kris Pope: Lead Designer: So yes, if you want to get out on-track on a cold morning at Spa and just go drive and tinker with your setup, that’s obviously still there. And actually, if you do, you’ll notice that the driving physics have been improved (we’ve really nailed the over the limit feel).

Doug Arnao: Physics and AI director: The AI has also responded well to this new direction and it makes them a lot more predictable and really human-like.

I'll take improved AI and more focussed physics than pits and strategy any day personally. But I do get why some will miss it.
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I agree these are good steps to take, but with fuel load and tyre temp always optimal it's either going to be two steps forward and one step back or one step forward and two steps back. It very much depends on which one of those two it is.

The career mode is now sounding utterly dull, however (for me) as no matter how good the physics are if its low lap events, and what does this mean for damage? If you can't pit then you can't repair the damage, is that the next thing we get to find out, that damage is gone or can't be repaired?


GTFan24
Just gonna sit here with a bowl of popcorn waiting to see how the PCars fanbase defends the exclusion of tire wear. :lol:
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I'm part of that fanbase, it's not defending it, quite the opposite (as most of those being critical of it are PC fans).
 
From the blog:

"So, for example, by removing tyre wear and fuel usage, we could in turn remove pitstops, which resulted in much closer and more consistent racing. Thus, the whole process of getting to the part that matters most—the actual racing and driving of these amazing cars and their upgrades—became a far easier and more streamlined affair. All these game design decisions have had great results in terms of the racing— with the tyres at their optimal range all the time and fuel at optimal load, there is no break in the action to stop for more fuel or new rubber. It’s pure racing action, and it’s just made Project CARS 3 into a much better racing-driver experience."

Holy-

This is gonna be a weird game, man...

I mean, I'll be honest, I never really raced in PC2 for long enough to waste my tires out. I did run out of fuel several times while lapping the Nordschleife because I got lost in the enjoyment of it, but was never worried about tires. Though, I did manage to puncture one, once, and I dunno how, I think I hit a curb at a weird angle...

So, basically, removing pitstops won't change the game for me from PC2, I'm sure I'll still enjoy driving it with the improved physics they boast about...but I'm actually sad to see the "sim" element of tire and fuel management removed.

They really should've called it Revolution instead of 3. It's like a driving-focused spinoff of the original, which I'm sure will be fun, but...it's too big of a change to call it a successor to PC2, hence, Ian called it the "spiritual successor to Shift", not the successor to PC2.

Just call it Revolution...
 
NekoPufferPPP
From the blog:

"So, for example, by removing tyre wear and fuel usage, we could in turn remove pitstops, which resulted in much closer and more consistent racing. Thus, the whole process of getting to the part that matters most—the actual racing and driving of these amazing cars and their upgrades—became a far easier and more streamlined affair. All these game design decisions have had great results in terms of the racing— with the tyres at their optimal range all the time and fuel at optimal load, there is no break in the action to stop for more fuel or new rubber. It’s pure racing action, and it’s just made Project CARS 3 into a much better racing-driver experience."

Holy-

This is gonna be a weird game, man...

I mean, I'll be honest, I never really raced in PC2 for long enough to waste my tires out. I did run out of fuel several times while lapping the Nordschleife because I got lost in the enjoyment of it, but was never worried about tires. Though, I did manage to puncture one, once, and I dunno how, I think I hit a curb at a weird angle...

So, basically, removing pitstops won't change the game for me from PC2, I'm sure I'll still enjoy driving it with the improved physics they boast about...but I'm actually sad to see the "sim" element of tire and fuel management removed.

They really should've called it Revolution instead of 3. It's like a driving-focused spinoff of the original, which I'm sure will be fun, but...it's too big of a change to call it a successor to PC2, hence, Ian called it the "spiritual successor to Shift", not the successor to PC2.

Just call it Revolution...
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Just call it Shift and be honest.
 
Scaff
Just call it Shift and be honest.
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Given how much Shift has been referred to in the lead up to release, I suspect EA is holding onto the rights of using that name and SMS would use it if they could.
 
Sigh. I'm not turned off by this personally; in fact, I'm pleased with the sentiment behind it. But I'm also really disappointed and annoyed that SMS would give more ammunition to the no-fun-allowed crowd that a game that offers the sort of features and content they've added must be intertwined with being "less of a sim" for whatever reason, as if maximum authenticity and those features/content are somehow mutually exclusive (they're not).

This is a rather poorly-considered move in that context, and the argument that it shouldn't have been called "Project CARS 3" now does hold water.

As in the real-world, drivers drive, and mechanics and the team worry about the minute details...
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That has always been my angle in sim racing. I am familiar with the details but don't spend time tinkering with them if I can help it.

To make it a little easier to understand—tyres aren’t part of "what suits the weather situation" problem anymore, they’re now "how much performance do we want"...
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I think everyone here can admit that was a considerable obstacle in PCARS2. Not to say that they couldn't have streamlined it another way...

We know that in Project CARS 2 the differentials were extremely complicated...we thought about what a driver would ask of their engineer: Preload, accel’ lock, decel’ lock, and done.
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Great! Zero objection here.

So, for example, by removing tyre wear and fuel usage, we could in turn remove pitstops, which resulted in much closer and more consistent racing. Thus, the whole process of getting to the part that matters most—the actual racing and driving of these amazing cars and their upgrades...
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No. A realistic circuit-based motorsports game is obliged to include pitstops. Strategizing those stops is interesting to a wide range of players, regardless of the depth of their interest -- look at Gran Turismo! For longer races, they're an immersive break from the action. Why must there only be non-stop action, instead of options? What the hell?

This game is about improving the fun factor, right? Pitstops are fun! How many people think they aren't? Again, look at Gran Turismo! Forza Motorsport!

...being competitive in a race should be more about your skills and the upgrades and so on, and less about whether you can afford to sit and spend countless hours deep-tuning every layer of your setup.
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I appreciate that, but I think you guys have made an error, @IanBell. Surely the architecture is there to re-implement pitstops, etc. on an optional basis for non-career modes and multiplayer?
 
"So now you don’t need to spend hours in a practice session working out the tyre life of a set of tyres for one car in one condition, and you don’t need to do the maths on how many litres of fuel you need to finish the race, and you won’t be punished for picking the wrong strategy and so on."

"So, for example, by removing tyre wear and fuel usage, we could in turn remove pitstops, which resulted in much closer and more consistent racing."

Today, is a very sad day for my Sim Racing life.
 
Ak1504
Over 2 years ago Ian Bell said it will be a spiritual successor to the Shift games so they nailed it imo. Can´t wait to play a "Shift" game with nice physics. :)
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I would love to do the same, but with the option to pit, change tyres, manage my race strategy.

It's perfectly possible to have both.

Ak1504
There are more than enough sims on the market. Just get AMS2 and you have Pcars 3 Sim Edition ^^
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Are you buying us PC's for that then?
 
they really should have said this is a spin off, it weirdly have everything I wanted but it feels like it has wrong name slapped on it. As annoying as tyre wear and pit stops for me in pCARS 2, I never thought of the game getting rid of it will be an improvement.

It really kills all the excitement I have for now, it need some other better new features to get me interested again.

My reaction at the moment:
jOpJH7J.jpg
 
So tyre wear and fuel is too 'complex' for newbies but all that tyre temperature talk isn't? Went over my head until I realised it's all talk and basically tyre temps are mostly locked as well :lol:

Talk about "freedom of choice" yet any race over 10 minutes is made crushingly dull. Get a talented set of players together online and it'll be just a train as everything is 'optimised'.

I'm fully for setups being less of a thing in sim racing. They do rightly point out that it's a race engineers full time job not the driver, but this isn't how you go about sorting it. Fixed setup events like in GT single handedly sort that out without even touching anything else. There's nothing wrong going down an 'arcade' route, some amazing racing games are. The best arcade games though are honest and embrace it, they don't claim to be anything else.
 
I apologize to those who called it when we first saw closed pitlanes. I wish the closed pitlanes weren't a clue that this had happened, because they didn't have to be. It's possible to have a streamlined career/tutorial mode with no pitstops (not sure I'm going to keep calling it a career mode), and a more complete simulation in other modes...
 
I was really hoping it is an option to shut them for new comers but I suspected it might be removed for good since the tracks map has no pits drawn and the Shanghai map don't even seem to have any kind of pit road on it.
 
Scaff
No, its Project Cars 3, adding in elements to aid newcomers doesn't mean you have to throw out what appeals to a good number of people who have been supporters of the series since the first PC.
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Just the title is pcars.
 
Will be watching the upcoming information on this game with interest. Though I thoroughly enjoy PC2 it’s too technical for me (like I have no idea about spools), and the more I read about PC3 sounds like it’s the other end of the spectrum. Hm.
 

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