Project CARS General Discussion Thread

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mister dog
Yup and shooting is the main incentive in a shooter, but if your game doesn't offer a story of some sorts it's always better to create other incentives to progress gradually. I'm not saying PCARS needs a credit system though, it's not that type of game unlike GT or FM, take out credits and car buying from those games and it will feel a lot duller as the thrills of racing and the depth of their career modes aren't great enough to keep people interested.
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It keeps me interested. You do have to wonder what would be the point in playing a racing game just to acquire cars though.
 
GranTurismo guy
It keeps me interested. You do have to wonder what would be the point in playing a racing game just to acquire cars though.
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Yeah if you can't mix that with a fun career mode (world tour whatever), nor with good offline racing you have a problem...Sounds like GT alright :D
 
Wolfe
@JohnnypensoI suppose Gran Turismo doesn't allow you to change the AI difficulty, so there's your problem. It's no reason to discredit the idea of a game economy entirely, across all games. Some people want more than just simulated racing. We also like to play videogames. Currency and winnings are elements of game design.
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This is often my response whenever somebody complains about not having the time to progress through a lengthy career mode to drive the car they want on the track they want. While I understand the dilemma, I personally have always found it much more exciting to play sims structured as games, especially in the unforgiving old-school, pre-PS3/360 days. There's a sense of mystique and exclusivity to top-tier cars and rewards when they're locked behind an economy/progress structure. When you make everything available right out the gate, you lose that. Again, I can see why some people want that, but I personally never have and doubt I ever will.

I think a lot of someone's viewpoint on that debate has to do with how they came around to playing sims. I loved games and cars simultaneously growing up as a kid. If you didn't grow up playing games, but have loved cars your whole life and recently taken an interest in sim racing, I can see why you'd take issue with rigidly structured career modes. They must seem really restrictive.

All of that said, I am still looking forward to Project Cars' design because it does something I've always wanted a racing game to try, which is to treat a player's career like an athlete/team in a sports game. There's massive potential there to actually instill some drama in the racing world/environment that many games (especially Gran Turismo and Forza) absolutely fail at.
 
glassjaw
All of that said, I am still looking forward to Project Cars' design because it does something I've always wanted a racing game to try, which is to treat a player's career like an athlete/team in a sports game. There's massive potential there to actually instill some drama in the racing world/environment that many games (especially Gran Turismo and Forza) absolutely fail at.
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On that note i think maybe it would have been better if you couldn't directly jump into Formula A or LMP1, and had to earn your seat playing the career mode in order to unlock those.
 
notanexpert
I love that this is a GRAN TURISMO based website yet nearly all of you have expressed some distaste for the gt series. Quite a bit ironic. :lol:
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It was founded to be a site for GranTursimo fans but has since expanded to cover dozens of games, and thus has opened the door to GT dislikers (which by the day thanks to Project Cars I am slowly becoming more and more :lol:)
 
mister dog
On that note i think maybe it would have been better if you couldn't directly jump into Formula A or LMP1, and had to earn your seat playing the career mode in order to unlock those.
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SMS would argue that the incentive to doing it the old-fashioned way and going up from karts to Formula A is the career goals achievement they've built...but honestly, achievements never meant a thing to me. A game giving me a pat on the back for accomplishing something does literally nothing to my motivation.

Then again what you're describing is kind of the way Toca used to be, and that was awful cause you had to win like eight disciplines before you could get into an F1 car, and there are few things more boring to me than having to endure a full season of Formula Ford or Formula 3 :yuck:
 
glassjaw
SMS would argue that the incentive to doing it the old-fashioned way and going up from karts to Formula A is the career goals achievement they've built...but honestly, achievements never meant a thing to me. A game giving me a pat on the back for accomplishing something does literally nothing to my motivation.

Then again what you're describing is kind of the way Toca used to be, and that was awful cause you had to win like eight disciplines before you could get into an F1 car, and there are few things more boring to me than having to endure a full season of Formula Ford or Formula 3 :yuck:
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This is exactly why having everything immediately accessible is just better.
 
glassjaw
SMS would argue that the incentive to doing it the old-fashioned way and going up from karts to Formula A is the career goals achievement they've built...but honestly, achievements never meant a thing to me. A game giving me a pat on the back for accomplishing something does literally nothing to my motivation.

Then again what you're describing is kind of the way Toca used to be, and that was awful cause you had to win like eight disciplines before you could get into an F1 car, and there are few things more boring to me than having to endure a full season of Formula Ford or Formula 3 :yuck:
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Well if you implement it right it doesn't have to feel restrictive or boring. In GAS the progress was more linear but you had different options; the higher classes would be unlocked but you'd have 2 or 3 different lower classes to keep you busy so you could change around.
 
GranTurismo guy
This is exactly why having everything immediately accessible is just better.
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Nah because I'd argue there's a middle ground. Like for me, I enjoy sports car racing more than open-wheel so I have no problems starting at the Renault Clio Cup and working my way up. For open-wheel I might start at Formula B, for example. I don't mind locking the top class if I don't have to necessarily start all the way at the bottom every time.
 
glassjaw
This is often my response whenever somebody complains about not having the time to progress through a lengthy career mode to drive the car they want on the track they want...

I think a lot of someone's viewpoint on that debate has to do with how they came around to playing sims. I loved games and cars simultaneously growing up as a kid. If you didn't grow up playing games, but have loved cars your whole life and recently taken an interest in sim racing, I can see why you'd take issue with rigidly structured career modes. They must seem really restrictive.
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Well said. That also carries around to other questions that arise around this subforum, such as the "realism" of different camera perspectives or input devices -- some people wish to simulate the act of driving a car, while others just want to play a game that simulates realistic physics -- and the choice of platform for this multiplatform game. If you play other games, there's much more to the question of PS4/XBone/PC/Wii U than the differences between those versions of Project CARS or other racing games.
 
mister dog
Well if you implement it right it doesn't have to feel restrictive or boring. In GAS the progress was more linear but you had different options; the higher classes would be unlocked but you'd have 2 or 3 different lower classes to keep you busy so you could change around.
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Your points feel more like "well, at least....." Points As opposed to "this is great because....." points.
It's not what we really what we want is it?

@glassjaw the point is that with everything unlocked, you are able to do that and others can do what they want as well.
 
On the GT side, we have credits, lower series, slower cars, etc, but, we're forced to race in series and cars that we would never touch (intentionally) in real life. Credits allow us to upgrade and buy new cars, but PD completely breaks the system by allowing unrealistic damage, horrible (slow) AI, and no penalty for driving bad.

For pCARS, we have no credits (right...?) and instead have a far more realistic career path. That being said, I still feel SMS had great potential from a simulation stand-point to include punishable damage penalties. I'm not talking full on Manager Mode (though that would be amazing!), but at the very least, teach racers the value of hitting a wall, damaging the suspension, or full-on DNF.

Personally, I prefer pCARS' career path versus the classic GT career. I honestly don't want to drive seven different Miata's or Evo's. I also don't like the fact that PD continue to waste so much time on useless cars. Many will argue with me, but less is more, especially when it eats into the resources (time and money) the team has. Give me more tracks or features over hundreds of cars in GT.
 
GranTurismo guy
Your points feel more like "well, at least....." Points As opposed to "this is great because....." points.
It's not what we really what we want is it?
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Well if you implement it right it doesn't have to feel restrictive or boring. In GAS the progress was more linear but you had different options; the higher classes would be unlocked but you'd have 2 or 3 different lower classes to keep you busy so you could change around, and this is great!
 
mister dog
Well if you implement it right it doesn't have to feel restrictive or boring. In GAS the progress was more linear but you had different options; the higher classes would be unlocked but you'd have 2 or 3 different lower classes to keep you busy so you could change around, and this is great!
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Still not as great as having them all unlocked. I guess it's just an opinion thing.
 
GranTurismo guy
@glassjaw the point is that with everything unlocked, you are able to do that and others can do what they want as well.
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Here's the thing: it's not the same. Knowing there is nothing holding me back from jumping into a prototype NOW is not the same as knowing I have no other choice, I must work my way up to that goal. The satisfaction that comes from the latter is so far beyond the former. And I realize this is getting into philosophy and game theory and all that, which I don't really want to delve into. But it's more complicated than you make it out to be.
 
glassjaw
Here's the thing: it's not the same. Knowing there is nothing holding me back from jumping into a prototype NOW is not the same as knowing I have no other choice, I must work my way up to that goal. The satisfaction that comes from the latter is so far beyond the former. And I realize this is getting into philosophy and game theory and all that, which I don't really want to delve into. But it's more complicated than you make it out to be.
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That holds everyone else back though.
 
@GranTurismo guy @glassjaw -- I've always advocated for a free mode (like "Solo" in PCARS) that allows you to drive anything, the way FM4 did (but with legitimate race options, like PCARS has). But like glassjaw, I'm interested in the "sports game" career mode in PCARS, too.
SynGamer
I honestly don't want to drive seven different Miata's or Evo's. I also don't like the fact that PD continue to waste so much time on useless cars...
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Gran Turismo's hair-splitting duplicates are indeed pretty useless, but one man's "slow-ass Miata" is another man's "fun club racer", and so on for the tiny kei cars and everything else. :)

Fortunately Project CARS offers a breadth of performance in spite of its "small" car list. I'll enjoy dancing around at the edge of traction in cars like the Ginetta G40 or E30 M3, while others enjoy rocketing out of corners in LMPs or the Formula A. 👍
 
notanexpert
I love that this is a GRAN TURISMO based website yet nearly all of you have expressed some distaste for the gt series. Quite a bit ironic. :lol:
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I'm joining the side of GT dislikers myself, but for the longest time in my case the only Sim racers I'd play up until now was GT and NFS: Porsche Unleashed(PC(and honestly don't know if it qualifies lol)) After that I was just straight Arcade with NFS and Midnight Club.

Once I bit the bullet and tried DiRT, GRID 1, F1 etc it was over eyes open wide man!:eek: Then the anger set in :mad:, but I don't hate the GT franchise it's just the last 2 left a extreme bad taste that made me go out and try different products. Right now that wasn't a good thing as GT has to fight to get me back at this point.

@glassjaw

I will admit I'm more like you I don't want everything handed to me in a video game reason being, video games suppose to world of wonder/mystery in my honest opinion.

When everything is handed to me I get completely bored Tekken has gone down this route, Skate 2 did as well, and GTA V has as well.

Simply put back in PS1/PS2 era days you fight with certain characters and got better, and you grew attached to them. At this point I'm no longer really attached to any character like that in Tekken, and it's the same with GTA the cities in San Andreas all had distinct feel to them, and when you finally unlocked them it was just a grand old time lol.

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Just to say this can be compared to life itself in my mind if everything is handed to you why bother with trying to better yourself?
 
mister dog
About the economy/ credits question, that's essential for car collecting games like GT or FM. Having all those hundreds of cars available from the start would take away the need to collect them which is an integral part of the gameplay. Also many punters would just hop straight in the Ferrari's and Lambo's, do custom races and 70% of the cars wouldn't get used.

Racing simulators are different as there are way less cars, so the focus isn't on collecting them but on racing. We need to start seeing these 2 as different types of games really.

And in the case of GT, the lame AI isn't a well thought through decision from PD so wins would be easier and people can collect cash faster. IMO they never bothered to update it, so instead they just made you start from last and gave the AI a head start so it would be less noticeable.
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As for PCars being a racing simulator rather than a car collecting/"racing" title like GT etc, hence the lesser amount of cars, I agree totally. And let's hope that reviewers of PCars are as well informed and don't criticise it for the lower car count compared to those other arcadier titles.
 
I mean I haven't genuinely loved a GT since GT4 so there's that. As far as car counts are concerned, they're irrelevant to me. GT5 and 6's roster is proof that having well over 1,000 doesn't matter if nobody wants to drive them. Project Cars' roster is short but the ones that are there I really, really want to drive. And lots of them you can't experience in any other racing title. It also does a great job of representing complete series, which many titles fail at. GT being a prime example: Audi R18 + Peugeot 908 does not an LMP1 grid make.
 
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At first I preferred the gt style of progress, but I've switched.... In hindsight, on gt6 I NEVER drove the formula car. I never could. It was super expensive. Its like gt has 1200 cars, take away 500 duplicates, take away 200 that I can't ever afford, and take away 100 uninteresting cars that I will never want to drive. What's left? Using super accurate math, we will say a third.
 
wowbaggerBR
I'm all for deep carrer mode simulating real world. Because this kind of design, where you buy your very own LMP1 to race Le Mans is stupid.
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Yep. Sometimes a successful race car driver will buy a specific race chassis that means a lot to him/her after it has been retired but unless you are a privateer then you don't own the machine you are operating.
 

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