Project Motor Racing General Discussion

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hawkeyez
If I’m reading your post correctly, I’d have to agree.

Sim games can only be so realistic before they feel unrealistic. You’re playing a game, in a racing rig (without motion) and you’ve taken an important aspect out of the equation… your equilibrium.

Our roads can get very icy in the winter, if my vehicle breaks traction at the back tires, even if it kicks out an inch or simply slips, I feel it immediately (I don’t feel it in the steering wheel) I feel it in my body.

Until everyone has 8k per eye super clear full peripheral vision VR headsets with high quality ear phones and motion rigs WITH tactile feedback… they can only do so much.

It feels weird and awkward when you’re taking a corner, pushing it, you lose traction and go spinning out of control but you sit there stationary waiting for your spin out to finish.

Developers need to smear the gap between realistic and video game. When GT7 came out, there were times I was just spinning out of control and it felt like I had no warning. Boom, lost traction and I’m done. It’s better now where you can visually see it and feel it in the wheel before it happens. The easier they make it to save a car losing traction the more realistic it would be IMO since I can’t feel in my body what the car is actually doing.
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Agreed. Hence the “seat of the pants” saying.
 
hawkeyez
If I’m reading your post correctly, I’d have to agree.

Sim games can only be so realistic before they feel unrealistic. You’re playing a game, in a racing rig (without motion) and you’ve taken an important aspect out of the equation… your equilibrium.

Our roads can get very icy in the winter, if my vehicle breaks traction at the back tires, even if it kicks out an inch or simply slips, I feel it immediately (I don’t feel it in the steering wheel) I feel it in my body.

Until everyone has 8k per eye super clear full peripheral vision VR headsets with high quality ear phones and motion rigs WITH tactile feedback… they can only do so much.

It feels weird and awkward when you’re taking a corner, pushing it, you lose traction and go spinning out of control but you sit there stationary waiting for your spin out to finish.

Developers need to smear the gap between realistic and video game. When GT7 came out, there were times I was just spinning out of control and it felt like I had no warning. Boom, lost traction and I’m done. It’s better now where you can visually see it and feel it in the wheel before it happens. The easier they make it to save a car losing traction the more realistic it would be IMO since I can’t feel in my body what the car is actually doing.
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Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
 
breeminator
Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
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Ok good to know I did. I’ve said this before, it can only get so realistic.

I think slowing down how a car reacts helps a bit. In GT7 I run all assits off but I have countersteering on weak (used to have it on strong). When the game first came out, we were all spinning out without warning. It was hilarious actually. Look in your review mirror and see what looked like your racing buddy, turning hard straight into a wall.

We all complained we had no warning it just seemed like walking on eggshells and suddenly boom you’re in a can’t save it slide. Hence allowing countersteering. At least with that, I notice it because the wheel begins to countersteering a hair before I’m aware I’m pushing it too far.

I also don’t care what they say, when using a controller, there are assists happening behind the scenes. I had an e type Jaguar and a bad tune, I could hardly drive it, constantly spinning out. Without reloading lobby, I switched to my controller and suddenly I’m in total control.

So yeah maybe that’s the key, assists that help. Another thing, GT7 I need some countersteering assist on, but in PC2, I noticed the car slid easier, but you could also save it more easily. In GT7 (and it’s been like this in most gran turismo’s) it feels like you go from grip to no grip pretty damn fast.
 
breeminator
Yes, you understood my post correctly.

I'm saying that realistic physics without real world feel is always going to give fake difficulty. So what they ideally need to do is to find ways to convey that real world feel. They already do it to some extent by conveying information via wheel force feedback that wouldn't actually be felt through the steering wheel in a real car. But I think they could do more to replace the missing real world feel:

  • Audio cues, visual cues, slight vibrations through the wheel or controller to let you know you're getting close to the grip limit. I haven't used a wheel for a long time, but when I did use one with GT Sport there was a click when you reached peak grip, but because it takes a bit of time to react to that, I found if I felt that click I'd gone too far, the car would slide a little, and the lap was ruined. There didn't seem to be any way to reliably turn the wheel to just a teeny bit short of that click.

  • Or assists that might in theory be unrealistic, but they compensate for the fake difficulty arising from the lack of real world feel, bringing the overall ability to control the car back to what it would be in the real world.
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Bass shakers was a game changer for me. I put one on each corner of my rig for independent tire feedback. I really don't think you'll get there with just a controller or a wheel alone. They have come a long way in the last decade, but it's still a ways away from actually simulating a real car feel. Not to mention that every driver is different and has their own opinion on what feels "correct" to them. I'm just enjoying the fact that we now have a LOT of options to choose from as far as SIMS go.
 
cjsrt4
Bass shakers was a game changer for me. I put one on each corner of my rig for independent tire feedback. I really don't think you'll get there with just a controller or a wheel alone. They have come a long way in the last decade, but it's still a ways away from actually simulating a real car feel. Not to mention that every driver is different and has their own opinion on what feels "correct" to them. I'm just enjoying the fact that we now have a LOT of options to choose from as far as SIMS go.
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The other thing is some games broadcast more info than others. Like GT7 doesn’t do tire scrub well at all or should I say loss of traction, SimHub is missing features other games have in SimHub simply because PD doesn’t put broadcast that info.

I have some shakers and they do help, I also have a really good wheel.

I really do think Logitech should come up with an affordable design, say $3000 all in that gives you the G Pro Wheel, Pedals, Rig w Shakers and somehow use the info they’re getting from the game to the wheel to feed the shakers.

If game developers and the hardware guys got together to integrate it all. Sim racing is taking off, lots want to get into it further but are unsure. Buy this, then that, then download this software and hook it up to this. If there was a plug n play all in for $3000 or even $3500, people I think would consider it.
 
hawkeyez
The other thing is some games broadcast more info than others. Like GT7 doesn’t do tire scrub well at all or should I say loss of traction, SimHub is missing features other games have in SimHub simply because PD doesn’t put broadcast that info.

I have some shakers and they do help, I also have a really good wheel.

I really do think Logitech should come up with an affordable design, say $3000 all in that gives you the G Pro Wheel, Pedals, Rig w Shakers and somehow use the info they’re getting from the game to the wheel to feed the shakers.

If game developers and the hardware guys got together to integrate it all. Sim racing is taking off, lots want to get into it further but are unsure. Buy this, then that, then download this software and hook it up to this. If there was a plug n play all in for $3000 or even $3500, people I think would consider it.
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That's $100 dollars a month for 3 years at $3,600 be tough pill to swallow to get that past most guys wife's. Me on the other hand ditched the wife some years ago. Could spend 10 grand, but not going to do so when only able to race a few hours a week at the very most. I do see sim racing venues charging $100 a month for top membership. Not sure how many could afford that either.
 
L
Fossilized
F1 spends millions on simulators, and all the drivers say it is still nothing like being in the car. You can throw as much money at the problem as you want, or can afford (!), But you are NEVER going to be able to say it is realistic.

Not until that brainstem implant, at least 🧠🤣
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I mean…Yes, the car will never have g forces which dramatically affect the force exerted by the body. Especially with an f1 car. However, if these companies would install strong enough motor/rumble/etc within the wheel base, pedals, and stick shift, that would provide 3 points of contact which should be dang near enough tactile feedback, particularly in a VR environment, with which one could rely and improve(at least not degrade) muscle memory and performance when in actual cars. When in VR, your minds almost there, close and “good enough,” are definitely worth pursuing. Less so, of course, when racing pancake…but still valuable.
 
This is ultimately a 'game' first and foremost. I hope that it'll be a proper evolution of PCars2 in the same way that ACC Evo seems to proving to be over the OG Asetto Corsa.
But also remember there will be a wide range of gamers buying this, from couch players on controller ( or even keyboards ) right up to those with full rigs and motion platforms. The 'realism' that people will find is very subjective and not always based on any IRL experience, some will just be comparing against other racing titles.
 
Just playing catchup on this thread and noticed the video about PMR on YT about the Career mode, it does have a very strong potential to be very good and engaging, I am getting great shades of Project Cars 1 & 2 which I liked but it felt a bit damp on the Career mode side, this is far more in depth with the monentary and sponsorship system. I hope there are NO micro-transactions on the videogame consoles versions. Do not spoil the fun and let get some real racing feels going!



Finally a SINGLE PLAYER focused simulator!! Looking forward to some more hands on before November and it may be a nice transition for the Winter months gaming in the UK. I don't know whether to try it on PC or wait for PS5 release and free like 200Gb off my clogged PS5 lol.
 
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ZEE
I don't know whether to try it on PC or wait for PS5 release
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It is planned to be a simultaneous release for PC and console. Also the game should be cross platform playable online.

I have the same issue. I have a PC but my PS5 is probably just as powerful. The PC also sounds like a vacuum cleaner and warms the room up when running, the PS5 doesn't. I'm edging towards console, it's just that PS Plus sting for online racing which irks me.

Since everything is unlocked from the start (if you want it) there shouldn't be the need for any micro-tranactions - there's nothing to buy.
 
greenlightning
That's $100 dollars a month for 3 years at $3,600 be tough pill to swallow to get that past most guys wife's. Me on the other hand ditched the wife some years ago. Could spend 10 grand, but not going to do so when only able to race a few hours a week at the very most. I do see sim racing venues charging $100 a month for top membership. Not sure how many could afford that either.
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Well a big cost of that is the wheel, and that’s CAD I was thinking as well. $3000-$3500 for a Logitech G Pro and Pedals, a rig, shakers with an amp and no need for a laptop running SimHub. It’s really not that bad and might not even be a doable price point anyway. With all my stuff, I’m probably close to $2200 including the price of my old laptop when I bought it new.

It adds up fast and it was all diy which saved me cash.

Sure you can go grab a G29 and some wheel setup on Amazon for $200 and stay under $1000 no problem. Just wishful thinking that a company would be able to offer some kind of all in one plug n play solution.
 
Fezzik
Next public demo at Gamescon next month

press.giants-software.com

GIANTS Software Press Center

GIANTS Software Press Center
press.giants-software.com press.giants-software.com
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press.giants-software.com

GIANTS Software Press Center

GIANTS Software Press Center
press.giants-software.com press.giants-software.com

1,500 Units of Horse-Power: GIANTS Arrives with Audi & John Deere at gamescom​

On the other side of the spectrum, Audi Tradition rolls in with a true motorsport icon: the Audi R8 that claimed victory at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2002, proudly bearing the starting number 1. Packing 610 horsepower from its roaring V8 engine, this legendary race car adds a high-octane touch to the booth, and a nod to racing history that players can experience with Project Motor Racing.
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Would be a sensible tie-in if the demo running at the event uses that R8.
 
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sirjim73
I am secretly hoping they make a mistake and add John Deere to PMR and Audi R8 to Farming Simulator ;)
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Wasn't there a Honda lawnmower in Toca Race Driver 3?

Imitating Clarkson with his Lamborghini tractor would be fun. But I'd need Kaleb as a co-driver:D

Believe it or not, the Lambo it is shorter than the current F1 cars.
 
egl92
Wasn't there a Honda lawnmower in Toca Race Driver 3?

Imitating Clarkson with his Lamborghini tractor would be fun. But I'd need Kaleb as a co-driver:D

Believe it or not, the Lambo it is shorter than the current F1 cars.
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Lots of things are shorter than the canal boat F1 cars we have today - other than dragsters I can’t think of a longer racing car
 
Spotted by a user over on the Straight 4 community forum - Porsche 963 LMDh

1177-e2ac7349ea315b339345d3a616d67f9f.webp
 
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I am really looking forward to this one. I like the idea of playing a more realistic single player career mode, and I hope it breaks down the myth that a sim with a career mode is not a sim. I am however a bit concerned that it won't be very fun.

My favourite sponsorship mechanic in a game is the one in Race Driver Grid. It is not very realistic but it is so satisfying trying to maximize the payout and make the car look good, and the way that you continuously unlock new sponsors keeps bringing you back to it. I don't understand why other games don't have this mechanic.
 
As a console user, currently on PS4 Pro, I am very conflicted about Ian Bell's new game. Consoles always got short shift compared to the PC version. Bug fixes were slower or nonexistent compared to the PC version. And the whole issue of user modding is going to fracture the game just like it did with Assetto Corsa.

Despite the number of available consoles overwhelming the PC numbers, Ian Bell has always developed on PC first and then ported. I guess it's just easier…

Getting the new game is going to involve me either buying a new PS5, or spending a LOT more money on a PC with a decent graphics card. I know spending the money will get me the version that Ian Bell will put most of the development into, but it will also expose me to other games like LeMans Ultimate and I just might find myself not playing Bell's game because it will be the usual half finished "work in progress" that the other games all turned into.

And Leman's ultimate is just too tightly focused a game for me. I love the variety of PC2, very little else even comes close for variety. One thing I have learnt over the years, give ANY Ian Bell game a year before you buy it! Even more so now, when it will require me to buy new hardware as well as the game!
 
kjb
I thought about pre-ordering but I like to wait until most of the DLC comes out.
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Some tracks are still unknown but otherwise the DLC is published over the first 12 months after launch.

Personally I hope for more hands-on reports at games.com but consider pre-order for PS5.
 


Race through 10+ classes of era-defining machines that have made 50 years’ worth of motorsport headlines in intense Career and Online Racing Modes.

From the 1970 Porsche 917K through the blockbuster days of Group C and GT1 to the last of the big-engine beasts of the early 2000s to today’s LMDh prototypes, experience all the passion, beauty, and intensity of professional motorsport.

Power your way to glory on 18 scanned, global locations, from the Nürburgring to Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps to Mount Panorama, Bathurst. Each of the 28 track layouts features “True2Track” technology that delivers uncompromising realism, from dynamic weather systems, adaptive racing lines with authentic drying/drainage behaviour, to synchronized 24-hour day–night cycles that mirror real-world racing conditions.

Fuelled by a benchmark-setting physics engine on the mod-friendly GIANTS Engine 10, Project Motor Racing enables mods on PC and console, delivers unmatched handling realism with high-fidelity FFB, and introduces “living” cockpits featuring visible G-forces, dirt build-up, and heat haze.

Get ready to face the cauldron of pure motor racing on November 25, 2025.
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Bathurst/Mount Panorama & Spa now confirmed, along with the Porsche and Aston hypercars, Mustang GT4 and the Group C & GT1 classes. Press release also mentions a couple of other Porsches from the GT3 and GT1 classes.

The bit with the LMP Audi looks Monza-ish but not 100% sure, and this looks like the craner curves and old hairpin at Donington.

Screenshot (6).webp
 
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Man I can't wait for this game. This is what I wanted FM23 to kind of be to fill the void of the late Project Cars 2. But it has not lived up to that. This looks like a nice fresh dose of a true racing sim that will be on consoles and not straight to PC like most of them.
 
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