- 1,067
- No46_TheDoctor or SSRacingUK
Project R
- Thread starter Mr Latte
- 929 comments
- 158,345 views
- Status
- 9,589
- GTP_DelphicR
- Esoterik1
- 766
- Poland
- Lotrzyna
That's exactly what I did. I based my cockpit off of a Porsche 911 (993). I'm glad I did. Feels just like sitting in the car, as far as comfort/ergonomics.
Mr Late - amazing project ! Any progress ? any new pictures ?
Too bad multi-screen works poorly in GT5P, lets hope it will work good in full game.
Delphic Reason - could you please post the results of your measurements ?(for example on some easy picture ?)
I looked for some extensive technical data of Audi A4 but couldn't find anything that specific.
- 1,238
- Humboldt / CA
- GT-R_HumboldtEF
Well sure if I can I'd be happy to help, I just dont want to threadjack mr. lattes thread.
Maybe you could start a new thead in this section. It sounds like you're looking for specs on an A4's seating position. maybe someone here has one they could check for you.
It would be handy resource to have a topic with various cars seating specs for all of the diy crowd. anyone with a different car could contribute specs. I mean this kind of question comes up alot.
Maybe you could start a new thead in this section. It sounds like you're looking for specs on an A4's seating position. maybe someone here has one they could check for you.
It would be handy resource to have a topic with various cars seating specs for all of the diy crowd. anyone with a different car could contribute specs. I mean this kind of question comes up alot.
yes, I know I would have to get 3 PS3's. I have been thinking about GT5 or PC sim racing and am now swaying towards PC. If triple screen support had been confirmed before I would have probably got the PS3's before release but due to the lack of confirmation I have recently been thinking about PC racing, I am still undecided.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
October Update!
Well sometime has passed and just to give you guys some info on whats been happening. Firstly this Project is not dead or cancelled, its just been on hold regards continuing its construction.
The reason for this is still with no information regards GT5 supporting triple screens.
Ive had to spend some time evaluating some things and particulary the whole audio side of the Project. For me what began with adding a single Buttkicker has become something that gradually became bigger and bigger as an idea to find ways to add more life to the cockpit from games audio.
How do you have control over a games audio, be able to tweak it and generate different vibrations to match the ingame effects. One part of me thinks this has just gone crazy, well I guess it is a kinda crazy project. The other part of me feels very much content in what Ive been able to achieve with many months doing temporary testing of different ideas. Some of us here on the forums have done similar playing around with Buttkickers etc. Originally the idea was to have extra units for "Pedals", "Wheel" and "Seat" locations. This would give tactile feedback more evenly and help surround the player with the vibrations. I found this was okay but a major problem was it was becoming like one large effect. It suffered by having the limation of only using the LFE channel so you got the same effect just more of it.
GT5 has some real drawbacks in that it doesnt always use the LFE that well. So what would improve the situation?
It required also using the L/R audio and not rely soley on the LFE channel. This meant we could get the really low end vibrations from the LFE but also much of the audio the main speakers get. I discovered that "Clarke Tactile" units are much more suitable in a musical sense to "Buttkickers". These also make audible sound like a general speaker but with the "Clarke Tactile" units you get a better usage of frequencies which in turn gives them a larger pallette of varying vibrations. They also create a "live soundstage" effect a bit like how DSP sometimes if used well can enchance surround audio. Where they lack a little is in low end wallop which is what the "Buttkickers" are great for. So it was an easy decision to combine the two together.
Problems, things like "Wind Noise" and matching how the "Clarke Tactile" units would sound required better matching to the speakers. So because these were going to be used on the L/R/C channels I decided each need control via "Graphic Equalisers". Having more control the better so 31 band Behringer units were hunted down on ebay after finding limations with some 7 band units like the previously bought Technics unit.
So from an audio/tactile immersion I think I can say this is quite different. Im not aware of even the most expensive professional simulators costing many thousands of dollars or indeed deluxe arcade units having the level of control or multiple usage of tactile feedback as this now offers. I will just refer to this as "Surround Tactile Immersion" as it uses the games multichannel audio indpendently matching the onscreen action.
This also took some understanding what was required in getting it all connected together and in the end buying multiple AV Amplifers utilising PRE/OUTS, MULTI CHANNEL INPUTS, and making usage of the PS3's multi AV output feature.
Its the same in a sense how you can easily hear L/R and Surround effects in movies/games from 5.1 or 7.1 sources. Now this adds the addition of feeling tactile/vibration effects from those multiple speakers. The centre effect worked great as feedback for engine throttle and its nice to have a different feeling sensation here to the previous attempt in having a Buttkicker from LFE on the pedals. Ive found the "Clarke Tactile" with its own EQ is great working directly with the in game engine audio.
I dont think this would work as well without the Behringer products. It was always going to be best to have control over these units so adding graphic equalisers, sub harmonic processors would enable independent control of the various units and really allow me to play around with the general audio in games all for the benifit of adding much more fun and immersion. A further update will clarify how successful this will be in removing/reducing things like "Wind Noise" and increase other game effects utilising their "Frequencies" on the graphic equalisers.
If anything this is all experimental but so far its going great.
Heres a layout to give an idea:
Accelerator Rev Effects = Yes
Left Vibration Effects = Yes
Right Vibration Effects = Yes
LFE Vibration Effects = Yes
All Units Indpendantly Controllable/Adjustable = Yes
Heres how its all connected:
Having control over the audio and how it not only sounds but effects the tactile vibrations
Well sometime has passed and just to give you guys some info on whats been happening. Firstly this Project is not dead or cancelled, its just been on hold regards continuing its construction.
The reason for this is still with no information regards GT5 supporting triple screens.
Ive had to spend some time evaluating some things and particulary the whole audio side of the Project. For me what began with adding a single Buttkicker has become something that gradually became bigger and bigger as an idea to find ways to add more life to the cockpit from games audio.
How do you have control over a games audio, be able to tweak it and generate different vibrations to match the ingame effects. One part of me thinks this has just gone crazy, well I guess it is a kinda crazy project. The other part of me feels very much content in what Ive been able to achieve with many months doing temporary testing of different ideas. Some of us here on the forums have done similar playing around with Buttkickers etc. Originally the idea was to have extra units for "Pedals", "Wheel" and "Seat" locations. This would give tactile feedback more evenly and help surround the player with the vibrations. I found this was okay but a major problem was it was becoming like one large effect. It suffered by having the limation of only using the LFE channel so you got the same effect just more of it.
GT5 has some real drawbacks in that it doesnt always use the LFE that well. So what would improve the situation?
It required also using the L/R audio and not rely soley on the LFE channel. This meant we could get the really low end vibrations from the LFE but also much of the audio the main speakers get. I discovered that "Clarke Tactile" units are much more suitable in a musical sense to "Buttkickers". These also make audible sound like a general speaker but with the "Clarke Tactile" units you get a better usage of frequencies which in turn gives them a larger pallette of varying vibrations. They also create a "live soundstage" effect a bit like how DSP sometimes if used well can enchance surround audio. Where they lack a little is in low end wallop which is what the "Buttkickers" are great for. So it was an easy decision to combine the two together.
Problems, things like "Wind Noise" and matching how the "Clarke Tactile" units would sound required better matching to the speakers. So because these were going to be used on the L/R/C channels I decided each need control via "Graphic Equalisers". Having more control the better so 31 band Behringer units were hunted down on ebay after finding limations with some 7 band units like the previously bought Technics unit.
So from an audio/tactile immersion I think I can say this is quite different. Im not aware of even the most expensive professional simulators costing many thousands of dollars or indeed deluxe arcade units having the level of control or multiple usage of tactile feedback as this now offers. I will just refer to this as "Surround Tactile Immersion" as it uses the games multichannel audio indpendently matching the onscreen action.
This also took some understanding what was required in getting it all connected together and in the end buying multiple AV Amplifers utilising PRE/OUTS, MULTI CHANNEL INPUTS, and making usage of the PS3's multi AV output feature.
Its the same in a sense how you can easily hear L/R and Surround effects in movies/games from 5.1 or 7.1 sources. Now this adds the addition of feeling tactile/vibration effects from those multiple speakers. The centre effect worked great as feedback for engine throttle and its nice to have a different feeling sensation here to the previous attempt in having a Buttkicker from LFE on the pedals. Ive found the "Clarke Tactile" with its own EQ is great working directly with the in game engine audio.
I dont think this would work as well without the Behringer products. It was always going to be best to have control over these units so adding graphic equalisers, sub harmonic processors would enable independent control of the various units and really allow me to play around with the general audio in games all for the benifit of adding much more fun and immersion. A further update will clarify how successful this will be in removing/reducing things like "Wind Noise" and increase other game effects utilising their "Frequencies" on the graphic equalisers.
If anything this is all experimental but so far its going great.
Heres a layout to give an idea:
Accelerator Rev Effects = Yes
Left Vibration Effects = Yes
Right Vibration Effects = Yes
LFE Vibration Effects = Yes
All Units Indpendantly Controllable/Adjustable = Yes
Heres how its all connected:
Having control over the audio and how it not only sounds but effects the tactile vibrations
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- 1,011
- UK
- the_greeze
Nice little update Mr L! 
Also, interesting to see how it's all hooked up 👍
Also, interesting to see how it's all hooked up 👍
PC racing.. very wide and boring in my opinion. Online matches if not played in seriuous legues are very dull and chaotic just like demolition derby just like on consoles.
Also many PC sim racers think that because its not on PC is not a SIM.
Yo will go back to GT games because they are more fun INWO.
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Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
Yes its got quite costly and why its taken over a year to get to this stage.
Not from general intention but desire to be really immersive or add lots more fun to the games. Its a hobby/experiment to end up being something quite unique.
Part imagination getting out of control indeed yes it is but who else has ever done a cockpit this way?
Ive ended up spending about £1500 on all the audio equipment used like amps,speakers,subs etc.
Saved money with some imports and ebay. As such this could easily cost £2000/$2000+ if someone where to just go out and buy everything new etc.
- 744
- NOS_Waster or GTP_NOS_Waster
- NOS Waster
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
I did find a better solution for the monitor/bracket mounts
Less clutter and stronger....
Heres some photos looking down, from behind and early positional testing...
Before building the base for the main seat and wheel section I had to determine what was happening with the audio. The idea of having 2x 12" subs either side of the seat and a 15" sub at the back was dropped with the new layout shown above.
The project wont be finished for GT5 release, I havnt the money currently to get some other materials for additional chrome tubing, spray painting and plastic. However Im happy enough to wait and finish this the way I want it to be than to rush it through.
Heres a drawing showing the main front supports.
The back of my cockpit will have some influence/resemblence to this.
Good for housing the subwoofers and using chrome tubing in a similar way but also having the WRX rear spoiler.
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- 1,067
- No46_TheDoctor or SSRacingUK
The back of my cockpit will have some influence/resemblence to this.
Good for housing the subwoofers and using chrome tubing in a similar way but also having the WRX rear spoiler.
Thats the stuff they use to make hand rails from, only it looks like aluminium instead of galvanised steel, interesting..............
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
Yeah, sorry Doc, I meant my own will use "Chrome Piping" in a similar manner with that rollcage type effect at the back.
Glad to see you back at it again...
Looking to be one of the best setups around
I do however think not having one of the Clarke units under or attached to the seat is a mistake. If you have not tried this yet give it a go.
Hi, havnt seen much else of yours in a while too mate, hope all is well.
I did try the Clarke under the seat and yeah it is good, to be honest theirs not much configurations I havnt tried in the past month.
Also dont forget I get plenty of feedback from the 12" subs too.
Did this with the seat
1x via LFE
2x via LFE
1x via LFE & 1 via L/R
In the end I found having them attached to same platform the seat is on but right beside the seat on either side was best. By adding the stereo effect its definately worth doing.
Having cars pass by in a game but not only hear their engines from the Dolby Digital sound move from left-centre-right but to also feel this happening as they pan across the speakers is superb. Even replays now feel great as the cars go by
The only addition I would consider doing is adding a "Mini LFE" to the Centre having it match the L/R but I dont want too strong of an effect in the pedals as it can become annoying constantly vibrating your feet.
If you have tried all of the positions and that one worked well use it. Just making sure we tried everything here.
I have been very busy lately but have had time to tweak some things on my cockpit. I will do a massive update once I get motivated w/ some real news on GT5 and its actual release and support.
I've actually now got my d-box set up to work as a massive transducer for games that will not support the motion. It uses a LFE signal. I use the chair in conjunction w/ a bka300 and a mini lfe.
I have been very busy lately but have had time to tweak some things on my cockpit. I will do a massive update once I get motivated w/ some real news on GT5 and its actual release and support.
I've actually now got my d-box set up to work as a massive transducer for games that will not support the motion. It uses a LFE signal. I use the chair in conjunction w/ a bka300 and a mini lfe.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
Stega Ive found this to pretty much be optimium.
Still would like to sort something for the CSP brake feature....
I cant be certain to how any of this will change when placed on the actual cockpit 5" deep wooden base. If anything things should improve over the temporary wood setup I have the seat attached to at home.
Testing of this has been done at home with my Yamaha AV 7.1 setup not the onboard speakers the cockpit will use. I am a bit concerned about the close proximity of so many speakers.
It might turn out having 7.1 audio is overkill on the cockpit particulary because the 3x Clarke units act like speakers as well using the L/C/R. So in total if I go with using 7.1 over 5.1 that would be 12 speakers counting the subs in total on the cockpit.
I think by not having two surround speakers that would be beside the seat in a 7.1 configuration they then will not interfere with the sound from the Clarke units beside the seat. I feel they would be too close together as well with sound from the L-SL and R-SR almost beside each other. It may be better to stick with 5.1 layout on the cockpit and have a wider space between the speakers for better seperation running with 10 speakers onboard instead.
The above was from TGS I think or some other Japan based demonstration with a huge projection screen in front of the player.
Still would like to sort something for the CSP brake feature....
I cant be certain to how any of this will change when placed on the actual cockpit 5" deep wooden base. If anything things should improve over the temporary wood setup I have the seat attached to at home.
Testing of this has been done at home with my Yamaha AV 7.1 setup not the onboard speakers the cockpit will use. I am a bit concerned about the close proximity of so many speakers.
It might turn out having 7.1 audio is overkill on the cockpit particulary because the 3x Clarke units act like speakers as well using the L/C/R. So in total if I go with using 7.1 over 5.1 that would be 12 speakers counting the subs in total on the cockpit.
I think by not having two surround speakers that would be beside the seat in a 7.1 configuration they then will not interfere with the sound from the Clarke units beside the seat. I feel they would be too close together as well with sound from the L-SL and R-SR almost beside each other. It may be better to stick with 5.1 layout on the cockpit and have a wider space between the speakers for better seperation running with 10 speakers onboard instead.
Its one Sony used a few times. First I ever saw it was when they demonstrated some 3DTVs.
The above was from TGS I think or some other Japan based demonstration with a huge projection screen in front of the player.
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- 402
- GTP_RacerXO | NastyNelson
- BuddhaPalm
Glad to see you back at it again...
Looking to be one of the best setups around
I do however think not having one of the Clarke units under or attached to the seat is a mistake. If you have not tried this yet give it a go.
Can't wait to see the finished product Latte, it's looking good so far and it's good to see that my recommendation was a good one, I 'm glad you guys are liking the CS
- 97
- Madmurdock
Stop dilly dallying and get it finished mate.
Mr Latte
Premium
- 5,075
- N Ireland
Yes appreciated and glad I went with them as the cockpit would never feel the same if just using Buttkickers on their own.
Well thanks for comments again lads, still a long way to go...
Lighting is the next area to look at again and see ways of using it to enchance the cockpit and gaming.
Youve seen some of the GT colour effects shown previously for the subs, and white LEDs that will be used as stylish lighting. Yes and Ive said it before yet dont understand why others have not utilised lighting in a nice way to set off their cockpit more.
Anyways going back to the arcade cockpit element:
Imagine playing in a dark room, okay and having a reaction to your braking, which illuminates the room and pedal section giving a nice ambience and visualisation. Its all part of my idea of adding immersion and I find it adds to the whole experience. Of course all of this can be turned on/off via 12 volt adapters from mains.
Rear WRX spoiler brake light = YES
2x rear brake lights at back of cockpit = YES
1x LED brake light illuminating the inverted CSP = YES
Shiny black plastic, chrome metal tubing and nice red lighting with some white LEDs
I find this will really add some class to the finished appearance and help with the arcade unit theme.
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FREX has something similar I found it to be a cool feature.
The FREX pedals have a small red light that illuminates when the brake is depressed and can be placed on the cockpit, and it also features a pressure sensor telling you how much force you are using example: 900/1000.
I love the light idea, I think it will be very cool on a large scale. When it is complete, I know seeing a light that tells you your foot is pressing the pedal does not seem useful, but it sure is cool
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