Proper Weight Distribution Thread

panjandrum · Dec 7, 2013

After realizing that the Alpine A110 (premium model) had pretty much none of the characteristics of a RR car, I started poking around and discovered that PD has that car's weight distribution completely wrong at 50/50. (Errrrrrrrrr, how can a company supposedly so obsessive get things wrong so darn often?)

Anyway, I thought I should start a thread where we could post correct weight distributions for cars in which PD has them incorrect to an extent where the car no longer drives at it should, and HOW much to lighten them and then adjust ballast to get proper distribution while staying as close as possible to the stock weight of the car:

Distribution is Front/Rear.
Corrections are notated as followed: Stage(1-3)/Hood(Y/N)/Glass(Y/N) with Ballast by amount (kg) and position:

Alpine A110 PD: 50/50 : Alpine A110 Correct: 40/60 = Stage 3/Y/Y - 184/50

Unfortunately even with maximum lightening it is not possible to fully correct the Alpine's weight balance discrepancy without making the car heavier than stock by a fair amount, which is a shame. The best you can get a 715kg total is to put 80kg in the back (50) after full lightening. This gets you a distribution of 45/55, which is less than ideal but does make the car feel somewhat like an RR car. Might be a good compromise for most drivers.

If anyone else is interested in correcting weight distribution where necessary please post. Otherwise this thread will only contain my own solutions as I (slowly) encounter them.

I will try to occasionally stop back and maintain a list here in the first post if other's add to this thread:

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Alpine A110 PD: 50/50 : Alpine A110 Correct: 40/60 = Stage 3/Y/Y - 184/50

MrGrado · Dec 8, 2013

Deleted.

panjandrum · Apr 28, 2014

Well, so far the Alpine 1600 is the ONLY car I've found with a weight distribution which looks completely borked. Some of the rest of them might be a little off (I'm 99% sure that the 86' 911 which the RUF is based on is 40/60, but GT6 is close enough not to bother with on that one). I also noticed that the 1600 has no dash lights at night. Now, maybe PD is trying to replicate the incredible build quality and reliability of all French cars of the era... Ahm... but really, how could they screw this one up so badly, especially considering they went to the trouble of making an anniversary edition!

esoxhntr · Apr 28, 2014

RUF 3400S seems to be reversed.. or at the very least, wrong

it's listed at 54/46 which is odd since it is MR.

panjandrum · Apr 28, 2014

esoxhntr
RUF 3400S seems to be reversed.. or at the very least, wrong

it's listed at 54/46 which is odd since it is MR.

Yep, that's definitely not right either. Thanks!

oppositelock · Apr 28, 2014

Oh, there's tons of cars with wacked weight distribution. My favorite example is the AAR Cuda versus the Challenger R/T. Both are Chrysler E-Bodies, so they're basically the same car underneath. The Cuda has a 340 cubic inch small block and has 56/44 distribution. The Challenger has the notoriously heavy 426 Hemi big block and is somehow 50/50. :irked:

Other examples:

Some FFs are 53/47. Off the top of my head I know the Scirocco and Clio R.S. fall into this category, but I think there's others. Nearly all real world FFs are around 60/40, and something like 58/42 is considered good.

'07 Mustang GT is 63/37. Uh, maybe with anvils welded to the hood. Should be something like 55/45.

Many older FRs, particularly standard cars, are 58/42 or worse. S13 Silvia, Bluebird, AE86, etc. All plow like dump trucks and I hate driving them.

C6 Z06 with the LS7 engine is 51/49. The C6 ZR1 with the heavier supercharged LS9 engine is 49/51. Not a huge difference, I know, but these should be swapped around.

STI Spec C is 54/46, should be closer to 59/41.

That's all I can think of right now, I'm sure there's more out there.

Ridox2JZGTE · Apr 28, 2014

One of the key things to fix when making replicas

Wonky weight distribution :lol:

Some FF I can't even replicate with full ballast, some do have 62/48 or more in real life.

Mustang GT coupe manual has 52.5/47.5 IRL, impossible to replicate in GT6.

R32 GTR has 58/42 to 60/40 depending on what's in the car IRL - this works fine in GT6.

DolHaus · Apr 28, 2014

Has anyone considered that the cars weight distribution in game might include the driver weight rather than just being the weight of the car?

esoxhntr · Apr 28, 2014

10

DolHaus
Has anyone considered that the cars weight distribution in game might include the driver weight rather than just being the weight of the car?

80-100 kgs placed more or less in the middle of the car responsible for the out of whackness described in this thread??

DolHaus · Apr 28, 2014

esoxhntr
10

80-100 kgs placed more or less in the middle of the car responsible for the out of whackness described in this thread??

Yeah that's what I'm thinking, that much weight placed in the centre or slightly forward/backwards of centre would definitely alter the unladen weight distribution. The lighter the car the more pronounced the effect would be.

esoxhntr · Apr 28, 2014

DolHaus
Yeah that's what I'm thinking, that much weight placed in the centre or slightly forward/backwards of centre would definitely alter the unladen weight distribution. The lighter the car the more pronounced the effect would be.

of course, but not to the tune of a 8-10% swing either way. on a 1000 kg car, with 40/60 "stock" distribution 100 kg in the middle change the distribution to a whopping 41/59

DolHaus · Apr 28, 2014

esoxhntr
of course, but not to the tune of a 8-10% swing either way. on a 1000 kg car, with 40/60 "stock" distribution 100 kg in the middle change the distribution to a whopping 41/59

Fair enough in that scenario but I think it definitely plays a part in smaller weight distribution discrepancies. I think some of the more odd distribution changes might be a case of the real life figures not working with the physics engine, maybe some were found to be completely broken in testing and had to be altered to make them work within the game.

brian wolf · Apr 28, 2014

What about the weight of a full tank of petrol? Are PDs weights dry or with fluids?

esoxhntr · Apr 28, 2014

DolHaus
I think some of the more odd distribution changes might be a case of the real life figures not working with the physics engine, maybe some were found to be completely broken in testing and had to be altered to make them work within the game.

Maybe.. but I just think they need to fire their data entry person.

Ridox2JZGTE · Apr 28, 2014

Most of FF cars in GT6 when properly setup drives well on their real life weight distribution

The 450PP J's Racing FIT Turbo ( 62/38 ) and J's Racing CRX Del Sol ( 61/39 ) for example, are quick FF with great rotation and handling.

jules283 · Apr 28, 2014

I think the Ford Focus RS is another wrong one.

Turbotwin01 · Apr 28, 2014

The 2002 Viper has a 48/52 Distribution if I'm not mistaken. I don't think an FR like this would have weight distribution where the back weighs more then the front.

baravnzla · Apr 29, 2014

I know it'll be great to have every car recreated exactly as they are in real life, but what's the point in getting the exact weight distribution if it makes the car a pain to drive? Have you tried and tune the cars after getting the right weight dist? Do they drive better than they do with the PD weight distribution? Everyone have a way to see things but imho i don't see the point in fixing this if the cars ends uncontrollable.

oppositelock · Apr 29, 2014

Turbotwin01
The 2002 Viper has a 48/52 Distribution if I'm not mistaken. I don't think an FR like this would have weight distribution where the back weighs more then the front.

That's actually pretty accurate. From memory I think the Viper, C7 Corvette, SLS AMG, 599 GTB have slight rear weight biases in real life.

twitcher · Apr 29, 2014

I'm no expert, but I've certainly noticed some very odd weight distributions in GT5 and GT6.

I've never looked into it much, but based off of what I've learned from talking with people over the years, and from a quick 15 minute Google search of a few of my favourite cars, almost every 80's and 90's RWD JDM car is way more nose heavy than they should be.

IRL, the Toyota Supra RZ has nearly perfect 50/50 distribution from the factory. In GT6, it's 59/41...

Not quite to that extreme, but similar can be said for almost every Silvia, AE86, Aristo/GS300, Soarer, etc.

It's a real bummer for the drift community, as these cars are really slow due to the poor rear grip. Adding weight to the rear helps, but when you are talking about a 300hp missile, there's only so much weight you can add before you create a paper weight on wheels.

Then there's the opposite end of the spectrum. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but the 47/53 of the 2010 Camaro SS seems off, for a V8 FR layout. Same with the 2008 BMW M5 being 50/50.

Or if the BMW actually is 50/50, how the hell is the Supra 59/41???

As has been mention, for a company that claims to pride itself on accuracy and details (to the point that they use it as an excuse for missing release deadlines), there sure as hell seems to be a lot of discrepancies in this area.

Compensating for certain aspects of the physics engine sort of makes sense to me (but if the engine is so good, why all the fudging of the weight?), but I don't really buy it.

To me, it's just another thing that falls on the list of "how did they miss that??" and displays a lack of attention to detail.

Weight, in general, in GT6 seems to be very off to me. I know a lot of people in the drift scene have found that adding weight is more beneficial than removing it...to the point where I know several people who drift their 4-doors at over 2000kg. That's insane, and completely counter-intuitive to how real world tuning works.

One person in particular (easily the smoothest and most consistent I've ever met, I would confidently place him among the elite drifters in GT6) found that the only way he could get cars to feel the way he likes them is to run stock weight, and add 200kg, to the front!!!

The whole "tuning by stage" (which we now know is nothing more than a multiplier) is beyond old, and in 2014, laughable. Also, where did the magic number of 200kg maximum available ballast come from? The very limited, "paint by numbers" style of tuning in this game is getting very frustrating, to the point it's becoming the main reason I'm looking for another driving game to fill my racing needs.

Tornado · Apr 29, 2014

The Saleen S7 is another wacky one, with its heavy front weight bias. By far the best one is how all of the Miata models, the cars constantly talked about even in the GT manuals all the way back to the first game as the perfect examples of a car with a perfect 50:50 weight distribution, have 55:45.

Turbotwin01
The 2002 Viper has a 48/52 Distribution if I'm not mistaken. I don't think an FR like this would have weight distribution where the back weighs more then the front.

Transaxles and lightweight engines entirely behind the front wheels. In the Viper's case the engine isn't too terribly light and it doesn't have a transaxle (though it is much lighter than it was in the crazy overbuilt first generation car, which still came in at 49:51), but it is externally large and very far back so the weight is distributed fairly well anyway.

twitcher · Apr 29, 2014

Tornado
The Saleen S7 is another wacky one, with its heavy front weight bias. By far the best one is how all of the Miata models, the cars constantly talked about even in the GT manuals all the way back to the first game as the perfect examples of a car with a perfect 50:50 weight distribution, have 55:45.

Transaxles and relatively lightweight engines entirely behind the front wheels.

I forgot about the Miatas :banghead:

I'm not sure another example needs to be given :lol:

The car that has the most duplicates in the game...yet the weight distribution on all of them is off....yaaa, great attention to detail there....

Tornado · Apr 29, 2014

baravnzla
I know it'll be great to have every car recreated exactly as they are in real life, but what's the point in getting the exact weight distribution if it makes the car a pain to drive? Have you tried and tune the cars after getting the right weight dist? Do they drive better than they do with the PD weight distribution? Everyone have a way to see things but imho i don't see the point in fixing this if the cars ends uncontrollable.

I know of at least two cars (both of the recent Mustangs) where the lack of care makes them practically unusable as is, compared to the relatively sprightly (albeit overweight) cars that compared favorably to the contemporary 350z in real life. The 2007 Mustang in particular is a complete mess, with an incorrect redline that cuts off the power peak, a transmission that doesn't function properly and a generally ropey appearance; on top of the ruinous weight distribution.

And if they are doing it on purpose (which is just as possible as the laziness scenario, since there are nearly as many cars that PD obviously screwed up intentionally to try to "balance" them with other cars in the game as there are ones where they didn't bother doing a 5 minute Google search), they really shouldn't be. Not only does it not work since the entire thing is completely scattershot (making some cars much less competitive than they should be, like the above mentioned S7 or the Mustangs; and others obscenely dominant, like the Camaro SS was in GT5) and not only does it make it more difficult to keep track of their cars (because how do they remember which cars they changed and which they modeled correctly, nevermind why they changed some things?); but it also doesn't speak well for the abilities of their physics engine if they have to insert such blatant and detectable hacks on car settings (be it applying a power multiplier to cars or making cars have horrid weight distributions) so the cars drive "right". As it is GT6, despite the claim to fame of the new tire model and suspension model, still features a bunch of hacky hidden settings (like the grip multiplier) dating to at least GT3.

Bowtie-muscle · Apr 29, 2014

Turbotwin01
The 2002 Viper has a 48/52 Distribution if I'm not mistaken. I don't think an FR like this would have weight distribution where the back weighs more then the front.

Actually not that unlikely, the transmissions on that Viper and corvettes c5 and newer, are mounted in the rear of the car by the differential. Not mounted to the engine. This will add rear weight.

Tornado · Apr 29, 2014

The Viper doesn't have a transaxle.

DolHaus · Apr 29, 2014

Wait, wait, wait.

Can somebody put some real life figures up before we get into a number throwing contest.
Theres a lot more than Engine and transmission that decides the weight distribution. Sometimes parts are moved back/forward, sometimes the chassis/body has more metal at either end (not all simple ladder frames), sometimes manufacurers actually fill hollow bits with lead in order to intentionally alter distribution.
What i'm saying is unless there is an actual figure for reference against (yes some of you have included these so I'm not talking to you) then we are all just guessing. Please remember to be clear and accurate when comparing, all cars alter from year to year and spec to spec dependent on what parts are fitted and where, its not always as simple as you think/want it to be.

twitcher · Apr 29, 2014

DolHaus
Wait, wait, wait.

Can somebody put some real life figures up before we get into a number throwing contest.
Theres a lot more than Engine and transmission that decides the weight distribution. Sometimes parts are moved back/forward, sometimes the chassis/body has more metal at either end (not all simple ladder frames), sometimes manufacurers actually fill hollow bits with lead in order to intentionally alter distribution.
What i'm saying is unless there is an actual figure for reference against (yes some of you have included these so I'm not talking to you) then we are all just guessing. Please remember to be clear and accurate when comparing, all cars alter from year to year and spec to spec dependent on what parts are fitted and where, its not always as simple as you think/want it to be.

This is a good point. A lot if people (myself included to a degree) are making blind guesses as to what the real world weight distribution of a car should be...people going as far as assuming the Viper has a transaxle.....

But, at the same time, we can make logical, educated guesses on a lot of cars, such as the '97 Supra RZ.

A quick google search will show you that almost every publication about the RZ claims that it has nearly perfect 50/50 distribution....yet in GT6, it's 60/40. I don't think we need actual numbers to confirm that something is "off".

Ridox2JZGTE · Apr 29, 2014

Go to car enthusiast forum of the make/model that you are looking for, they usually have someone who corner weight their cars

Reliable source.

Also, some car magazine who test and review cars do list the car actual weight distribution - not always the same as manufacturer's quoted specs.