PS3 General Discussion

[tha_con]

It started by you bringing up HDTV signals that I never mentioned, notice when i was being sarcastic. And you are still carrying on about HDTV, stuff I already know about. No need to debate I clearly understand HDTV's purpose and future standards. and it is a luxury in my opinion. and as smart as you are you are missing a few things with your prices. no one said anyone had to get a flatpanel TV. A 27 crt HDTV can be had for around $380

Even more the reason that is it not a luxury. Luxury items are attainable to a small margin of the population, right now it's a matter of choice, but to the average american consumer (and japanese for that matter) buying HDTV's are not far fetched.

As far as Europe, they are going to be behind the power curve regardless because their HDTV standars are a little "off" in comparison to the rest of the world. What I mean by that is, the rest of the world (Major countries at least) are going to make it a broadcast standard sooner than Europe.

Also, I started about broadcast signals because you said it was a luxury, which is incorrect, it may be a "luxury" to you, in YOUR opinon, but to the general population, based on average american income etc, it is very affordable, and not so much a "luxury" as it was two to three years ago.


About the Kikizo article, I'm calling BS hardcore. There is no way on gods green earth that Sony would let anyone, let alone Kikizo, just spout out about these things. There are documents, often referred to as "NDA"s. Non Disclosure Agreements.

I find it EXTREMELY questionable that Kikizo is able to "play" PS3 games etc, yet Famitsu, who is significantly more important to the media, has yet to have done such things.

Kikizo, you get the big ol' BS card.

 

[LaBounti]

From the kikizo interveiw I read this.

Even with [final hardware] in mind, reaching good frame rates at 1080p with next-gen graphics is almost impossible.

But a p4 pc with a 7800GTX 512 can run many pc games(doom3) at 2048x1536 at 60fps, what makes it impossible on next gen systems? And the RSX is simialr to the 7800GTX512. My thinking is if somone (PD) wants to run games at 1080p, it will have to designed around that standard. GT4 was designed around a 60fps standard so a 1080p one would be the same.

Also, I started about broadcast signals because you said it was a luxury, which is incorrect, it may be a "luxury" to you, in YOUR opinon, but to the general population, based on average american income etc, it is very affordable, and not so much a "luxury" as it was two to three years ago.

But I still dont think explaination on something I wasnt talking about was needed. HD signals still have nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Anyway if you are going off of average salary its your opinion if you think they should all buy an HDTV. where i live i have no clue what average salary is but I know not everyone is going to care for HDTV's and Blu ray movie players which narrows it down even more. I dont know one person with an HDTV besides me. Most people look at the price and settle for cheap standard. So where I come from HDTV's are a luxury. not everyone drives nice cars or can even afford one. I know for a fact you like to squash other poeples opinions and shove yours down their throat.

 

[tha_con]

From the kikizo interveiw I read this.



But a p4 pc with a 7800GTX 512 can run many pc games(doom3) at 2048x1536 at 60fps, what makes it impossible on next gen systems? And the RSX is simialr to the 7800GTX512. My thinking is if somone (PD) wants to run games at 1080p, it will have to designed around that standard. GT4 was designed around a 60fps standard so a 1080p one would be the same.



But I still dont think explaination on something I wasnt talking about was needed. HD signals still have nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Anyway if you are going off of average salary its your opinion if you think they should all buy an HDTV. where i live i have no clue what average salary is but I know not everyone is going to care for HDTV's and Blu ray movie players which narrows it down even more. I dont know one person with an HDTV besides me. Most people look at the price and settle for cheap standard. So where I come from HDTV's are a luxury. not everyone drives nice cars or can even afford one. I know for a fact you like to squash other poeples opinions and shove yours down their throat.

I'm not trying to shove anything down your throat, but your posts are always subjective.

For instance, you said "I don't know one person with an HDTV besides me"...so are you saying that you know everyone in your City, or your State for that matter? That you've been in their houses? Because it could very well be that the people YOU know don't own one, but that certainly doesn't rule out the rest of the population.

Or even more so, you spoke about how HDTV is a luxury. I stated that, as you may think it is now, it is extremely close to becoming a standard. 1/4th of the US population has them, and the entire US, including all broadcast stations, will mandate the broadcast of HDTV signals in 2008.

REGULAR SIGNALS WILL NO LONGER BE BROADCAST.

So, while you think that has no relevance, you fail to see that in order to view TV, cable companies will have to rent/sell converters to people not willing to upgrade to HDTV's. The standard will be 720p and higher.

This means, my dear friend, that it is most certainly not a luxury. If the GOVERNMENT feels compelled enough to push it within TWO YEARS and alienate all other TV's without converters, then it is most certainly not a "luxury".

If they are AFFORDABLE to the average american making a minimum of $25,000 a year, it fails to become a "luxury".

Point is, YOU think it is. However, the government, media analysts, market analysts, and TV manufacturers (who are quickly phasing out models of their TV's that do not support high definition, to include Sony, Sanyo, Samsung, and Panasonic, who have all shrunk their standard TV options nearly 30 percent in the last year)...then what makes you think it's a "luxury".

Certainly all of the manufacturers cannot be wrong to stop making their older standard model TV's in place of tube TV's capable of HDTV signals. Maybe it's just a big joke the media is playing on us right 💡 ?

Look, 12 months is hardly jumping the gun, and it no longer is a luxury when the market push and consumer demand increases to the point of an implemented standard. Users may not see Blu-Ray as their saving grace, and they definately won't lose their minds over it like the DVD hype, however, 1 year after the PS3 is released, HDTV will be a standard amongst broadcast television networks, and viewers will be "forced" more or less, to upgrade to an HDTV (seeing as how converters are estimated to cost around $200 to sell, and they are rumored to be available for rent). I see no reason for any consumer to waste their money instead of buying a TV for a little more and staying with the times.

 

[LaBounti]

Or even more so, you spoke about how HDTV is a luxury. I stated that, as you may think it is now, it is extremely close to becoming a standard. 1/4th of the US population has them, and the entire US, including all broadcast stations, will mandate the broadcast of HDTV signals in 2008.

You are taking what I said out of context. I never said anything about the HDTV standard. Just the TV's. And when I mentioned the TV's it was along with Blu-ray movie players, You need a HDTV(TV not signal) to take advantage of it. This is where you get lost.

Point is, YOU think it is. However, the government, media analysts, market analysts, and TV manufacturers (who are quickly phasing out models of their TV's that do not support high definition, to include Sony, Sanyo, Samsung, and Panasonic, who have all shrunk their standard TV options nearly 30 percent in the last year)...then what makes you think it's a "luxury"

I'll explain. One person's luxury is another persons standard. A Lexus Es330 is not a luxury to multi millionaire. That same car owned by say someone who makes $17k-$30 a year is a luxury, he/she doesnt need such a car his older car works just fine but may need some new additions for new emissions regulations in a few years. Point is luxuries are scaleable if you realize that you would not have been so quick to jump on me. I dont make $25k a year it is luxury to me just like my car, its only a Mazda 3 5 door but it feels like a luxruy to me as I coulda got a cheaper car but wanted the BEST I could do, making it a luxury. check the definition of "luxury" it fits quite well into what I said and what I think about HDTV's, the Televisons not the digital signal as a converter will make any TV accept digital signals. I never said anything about a digital signal.

I guess you are not trying squash my opinion since you misunderstand the definition of luxury. But you are indeed trying to shove your definition down my throat.

I see no reason for any consumer to waste their money instead of buying a TV for a little more and staying with the times.

Because you can't see the side of poverty. Or do poor people who can aford to live but not buy an expensive TV deserve to be left in the dark.

 

[194GVan]

ok, we get it, someday HD will be the standard but for now its not.

Personally I can't afford one right now, and even though I have a "Next Gen" console Im still not saving up for one, my SD flat screen is good enough for me for the time being.

I make well over the $25k a year that would make HDTVs not a luxury to me, but I guess paying for other things like a place to live, food on the table, repaying my student loans, etc.. are more important to me.

 

[Fairlady240zg]

Cant wait for this..

 

[Sprite]

This is how I see the PS3 shaping up.

Blue-Ray: Are Sony going to do what they did for DVD and do it all over again for Blue-Ray on the PS3? Yes is my firm belief, Sony has stated from the start that the PS3 will have a BD drive, why should the go back on their word? If the cost of most players coming out now and in the near future are costing $1800 for a Sony Blue-Ray player shouldn’t the PS3 cost $1800, NO they will make a loss so that they make more money in the long run. Is the first wave of games going to utilise BD's? NO most launch games for the PS2 were not on DVD so im not expecting them to be on BD from the off.

1080p: Are all the games coming out going to be running at 1080p? I would say no to this, for the fact that developers are still learning to push the PS3 to the max and making anything run at such a high rez with full AA and HDR and all manner of special effects going off on screen, and then to make them run at a steady 60fps is a tall order. The developers have to learn how to stand up before they can walk, and learn how to walk before they can run, we have seen this with PS1 & 2 so what makes the PS3 different? Nothing. This will also be the case for the 360 too.

As for running at 720p and up scaling? Well I wouldn't know if the PS3 is capable then this is cool. Just make sure you have screen that is capable of displaying such an image.

Game Graphics: The games that we have all seen demos of running it various game shows have given us a taste of what's to come... Or have they? We all know that the MGS4 trailer is exactly what the graphics will look like, in fact im betting that they will look even better after all the polishing they will do. But certain demos, namely the Killzone 2 and Motorstorm have raised an eyebrow or two, due to the high quality seen. Do I think that they were really ingame running? No and Yes, Motorstorm seems too good to be true and with all the particle and volumetrics shown on screen im dubious of the authenticity of it being from an ingame engine, but Killzone on the other hand I do think this is ingame, character models seem right and the normal mapping is very evident in the screen shots, this leads me to believe that killzone is actual game footage, because why the hell would they use low rez normal maps in CG cut scenes when the can make it look 1000 time better with fully modelled with super high rez textures.

HDD: Will my PS3 have a hard drive? Well all I can say is don’t know because of cost, time and demand, To put a 30gb Hard drive in the PS3 wouldn’t cost much, but if they stick with the current design of the casing, it would seem (The Kikizo article) that there isn’t enough room inside to fit one, and we have all seen the shots of the label next to the PS3's saying "Concept Design", so either they will do a drastic re-design (not likely, maybe only some port movement and minor things like that), or they will shrink the components inside, now this I can see happening slim PS2 anyone,, also look at the iterations we had of both PS1 & 2 over the years, with all the stuff inside getting smaller. So I would say that the PS3 would probably have one but only if they re-design the case or shrink the gubbings inside.

Online: Is there going to be an online function for PS3 like the X-Box Live? Well again all I can say I don’t know but for Sony to ignore the pleas by allot of consumer site's and developers would be a bad thing. Will it be an X-Box Live killer? Doubt it, at least for the short term, they have only just announced they will have a online feature so to gain the experience that MS has and to put it into practice will take some time, but maybe they have been working on it for ages and have only just announced it to keep us interested in PS3. Will my games have online functionality from the start? Well apparently Lair and Warhawk will have online functions and will also be launch games, so if they keep this promise they yes in a way, I guess it depends on which games you have, but for PS3 to be online and have Live killing features out of the box then I say no.

Death To The 360: Will PS3 kill off the 360? No is the answer, you must be foolish to think that the gap between the 360 and PS3 is a Grand Canyon sized gap, when in fact its more like a little stream. The 360 has proven that it can do superb graphics but for it to do these graphics ive seen clear evidence in frame rates suffering (although most vids showing games on the net are usually early code). Will PS3 have better games than the 360, I would have to say yes for this, but not in terms of just graphics power but in the choice of AAA titles, PS3 will have PS1 & 2 games and then all the titles that are PS3 specific, all the big developers will be at the forefront of gaming for PS3, this is where MS will be lacking, plus PS3 will most likely have all the games the 360 has apart from 360 only titles, and as soon as developers start making Blue-Ray games the 360 conversions will either be on multiple DVD/ HD-DVD (if they get out a HD-DVD drive) or the games will be lowered in content or graphics.

I think that allot of people believe that the PS3 will trounce the 360 and personally I don't, the game is far closer than was first expected, but I do think that the PS3 will start to move ahead of the 360 slowly but surely some time down the line, and before we know it we will all be arguing about which is better the PS4 or the X-Box 10,001. BTW all stuff above is based on my own judgement and opinions.

 

[tha_con]

ok, we get it, someday HD will be the standard but for now its not.

Personally I can't afford one right now, and even though I have a "Next Gen" console Im still not saving up for one, my SD flat screen is good enough for me for the time being.

I make well over the $25k a year that would make HDTVs not a luxury to me, but I guess paying for other things like a place to live, food on the table, repaying my student loans, etc.. are more important to me.

So you're telling me you spending over 1.5K a month just to live? I could have sworn the cost of living was lower in VA...but hey.

I don't know, I mean, I have a savings account, I only make $850 a month going to college, and I manage to save for lots of nice things, including a "rainy day" fund.

But again, 12 months it will be in around 30-35% of homes, and within two years over half the population is estimated to ahve switched to HDTV's.

I still do not think it's a luxury when it's affordable by most americans. Luxury's incenuate that they are only for the mid-upper class and higher.

 

[MAZDASPEED_RX7]

GT5+PS3=unlimited fun:tup:👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

 

[code_kev]

What the christ...

Gt5 will probably be a good game, if not a gigantic step up.

 

[ExigeEvan]

But again, 12 months it will be in around 30-35% of homes, and within two years over half the population is estimated to ahve switched to HDTV's.

I still do not think it's a luxury when it's affordable by most americans. Luxury's incenuate that they are only for the mid-upper class and higher.

How many TVs are there per house on average in the US?

I only ask because when I look at my friends houses most have 2 family TVs and generally a TV in each bedroom. Most of the bedroom TVs are 14inch screens, maybe 21 at best.

I can't see alot of my friends and families switching to HDTV in their living room within 2 years. I certainly can't see them all getting HDTV in their bedrooms.

So, to say that a household has switched to HDTV IMO is quite misleading. Unless ofcourse, your statistics do refer to all the TVs in that household.

 

[LaBounti]

I still do not think it's a luxury when it's affordable by most americans. Luxury's incenuate that they are only for the mid-upper class and higher.

Is that or is it not your opinion? I agree when you put it that way. But some not so middle class can splurge every now and then and buy a nice expensive toy.

ExigeExcel, read above, he explains in detail. I'm just trying to savnig you

 

[a6m5]

I think we are having an argument like this, because we are in that transition period right now. HDTV have not totally taken over, but if you watch high def TV broadcasts, or play DVDs and games on progressive scan, it is pretty much the new standard. I think it will take few more years for the Blu-ray to take over, but by the time our current TV broadcasts are replaced by HDTV broadcasts, Blu-ray should be thriving.

 

[Dave A]

Killzone on the other hand I do think this is ingame, character models seem right and the normal mapping is very evident in the screen shots, this leads me to believe that killzone is actual game footage, because why the hell would they use low rez normal maps in CG cut scenes when the can make it look 1000 time better with fully modelled with super high rez textures.

Killzone was ingame, but it ran at 1fps or something like that, and they sped it up. They claim that they expect the PS3 to be capable of running thoes graphics at 60fps though, something which may be true. But the Killzone trailer we all saw was doctored.

 

[194GVan]

So you're telling me you spending over 1.5K a month just to live? I could have sworn the cost of living was lower in VA...but hey.

I don't know, I mean, I have a savings account, I only make $850 a month going to college, and I manage to save for lots of nice things, including a "rainy day" fund.

But again, 12 months it will be in around 30-35% of homes, and within two years over half the population is estimated to ahve switched to HDTV's.

I still do not think it's a luxury when it's affordable by most americans. Luxury's incenuate that they are only for the mid-upper class and higher.

Not as low as I would like it to be, in northern va its actually quite expensive, with townhouses selling in the $500k range just for examples sake. And thats even without a 2 car garage. Its ridiculous and awful and I hate it, but thats the cost of livin here.

The aparment we are moving to is over $1100 a month with utilities, and thats only an average price, actually a low price for this area if you don't consider the apartments that are "low income" which are a great bargain, but you can't move there if you make a decent wage. You can get a really nice one for $1500-$2000 a month

Anyways, I realize a came off a little argumentative before, and I probably will try and get an HDTV sometime, but it will be at least a year away Im sure.

 

[tha_con]

Not as low as I would like it to be, in northern va its actually quite expensive, with townhouses selling in the $500k range just for examples sake. And thats even without a 2 car garage. Its ridiculous and awful and I hate it, but thats the cost of livin here.

The aparment we are moving to is over $1100 a month with utilities, and thats only an average price, actually a low price for this area if you don't consider the apartments that are "low income" which are a great bargain, but you can't move there if you make a decent wage. You can get a really nice one for $1500-$2000 a month

Anyways, I realize a came off a little argumentative before, and I probably will try and get an HDTV sometime, but it will be at least a year away Im sure.

Wow, that's a lot steeper than I thought! lol.

Anyway, contrarty to this wonderful popular consensus that some members are posting, HDTV prices are dropping rapidly, and has been evident since the end of 2001.

In December 2001, there was a 61" HDTV from NEC that retailed for a WHOPPING $27K!!! The same TV today is roughly between 8,500 and 9,000 depending on the retailer.

Before HDTV even became widely available to the public, the TV took a price dip of nearly 8 grand. Prices are dropping.

Flat panel rear projection LCD TV's have also taken a price dip, dropping from about $5,000 for a 50" HDTV to around $2,400 at most retailers.

In comparison, there are still expensive display's out there, but the results are very different. For example, Sony's SXRD series of televisions. They are by far, in my eye's, the benchmark for any rear projection HDTV. Action is MUCH faster on these TV's than any other HDTV I've seen on the market. The response time is just amazing. However, the TV retails for around $4,000.

Also, smaller CRT televisions (which are HDTV capable) retail for much less, coming in at around $500-$600 for exceptional models with HDTV capability, and lesser models coming in at under $500.

With that said, I feel as though it is entirely possible for these TV's to be widley recognized by the public as the new standard, and not a luxury. When you walk into best buy...do you ever notice the ratio of HDTV's to regular TV's? Regular TV's take the back seat by a far margin. In fact, even Wal-Marts are beginning to follow this trend in larger cities. The facts are evident, that while one man's luxury may be set in stone, the world will change with the times.

So, mark my words, 12 months, HDTV sales will rise significantly, and within 2 years, they will be widely accepted by a large margin of the US population (who I might add are "ahead" of other countries as far as HDTV standards go).

 

[Sprite]

Killzone was ingame, but it ran at 1fps or something like that, and they sped it up. They claim that they expect the PS3 to be capable of running thoes graphics at 60fps though, something which may be true. But the Killzone trailer we all saw was doctored.

Where did you read this?

The Killzone graphics shown were on the same scale as what we will see in the Unreal 2007 game, i doubt that it was speeded up because it would have looked so.

Unless Guerrilla has actually said this, then i find it very hard to beleive, when some website other that the official Sony site, or the official games site give info, i never beleive it.

[edit]

Ive just been reading that the guys who make said that the Killzone vid was made on a fake games engine and that the graphics were done to spec based on the PS3.

Link

Link

 

[Gabkicks]

whoops

 

[a6m5]

I sure hope they are going to be able to back that up......

 

[Dave A]

Yes the Killzone dev's admitted it was a stupidly low fps and that they sped it up (and why would we be able to tell if it was sped up, if you get a movie that runs at 1fps and you speed it upto 60 fps it'll run like it's a 60fps movie, as long as you provide enough frames to fill the second in the first place, it's like Animated movies, they're ridiculousely slow fps when they run real time, the studio's just speed tem up so when we see them they look smooth). but that they felt the PS3 should be capable of that. It's old news, infact it's a year old news. Dig up all of last years E3 info and you can see for yourself that the dev's admitted KillZone 2 was not run in real time. They still haven't shown anything running in real time regarding Killzone 2.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Yes the Killzone dev's admitted it was a stupidly low fps and that they sped it up (and why would we be able to tell if it was sped up, if you get a movie that runs at 1fps and you speed it upto 60 fps it'll run like it's a 60fps movie, as long as you provide enough frames to fill the second in the first place, it's like Animated movies, they're ridiculousely slow fps when they run real time, the studio's just speed tem up so when we see them they look smooth). but that they felt the PS3 should be capable of that. It's old news, infact it's a year old news. Dig up all of last years E3 info and you can see for yourself that the dev's admitted KillZone 2 was not run in real time. They still haven't shown anything running in real time regarding Killzone 2.

Good info, guys!

I had no idea this vid was running at only 5fps, like it stated in the link above.

I liked the quality and the "look" of the Killzone 2 trailer. But, something was odd about it, that I just didn't like. That's why I always thought the MGS4 trailer was more awesome and better quality. Oh, and that trailer was all 100% real game footage, if you didn't know that already.

 

[Dave A]

Yep the MGS4 trailer was real time, Kojima proved that in a conference where he altered things in real time.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Yep the MGS4 trailer was real time, Kojima proved that in a conference where he altered things in real time.

I have the video of Kojima showing the trailer was actual in-game footage. I think I posted it in the MGS4 thread. I'm not sure if it's still there.

 

[LaBounti]

MGS4 trailer was done on the 2.4ghz cell with a 7800GTX dev kit. final hardware is far more powerful. Thats very errie, considering as good as people think Gears of war is it was last seen running at 30fps and less on final hardware.

 

[slackbladder]

MGS4 trailer was done on the 2.4ghz cell with a 7800GTX dev kit. final hardware is far more powerful. Thats very errie, considering as good as people think Gears of war is it was last seen running at 30fps and less on final hardware.

I remember GoW being pencilled in for an early 2006 release (though even then it may have been optimistic). But I think Microsoft want their first original AAA title for the 360 to be very,very good. No wonder they're taking their time.

The other thing that struck me about the MGS4 demo was how unique it looked. In my mind too many 360 games share the same graphical nuances at the moment. Yet MGS4 looks utterly different. Still, it's early days.

 

[Sprite]

Yeh its nice to see that MGS4 trailer was actual real footage, but the devs said that Killzone was done to spec as if it would be run on PS3, FPS in a game and FPS on a film are totally different in regards to what we see. Films (including toy story and other animations) run at 24 / 25, but games run higher. so if you have a vid running a 1 FPS then speed it up, it would look like Benny Hill.

 

[joseph dobson]

you the PS3 HDD, how much storage will it be and how much will it cost?

 

[Max_DC]

you the PS3 HDD, how much storage will it be and how much will it cost?

it will have 33,47862 GB storage and will cost between 137,85 and 137,87 $. Release date is 08.07.06 at 11 am

 

[code_kev]

33,47862.1 gigs actually.

 

[joseph dobson]

i take it by the stupid GB space no one knows, but i hope it is that size and for the value for money!

lol