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- Bazra1985
- xSHAx BaZrA
Then I strongly recommend that you get the electrical system in your house looked into, as that kind of thing is most certainly not normal at all.
Most people?
Sorry but how exactly are you sure that most people fall into these categories?
And why would a consumer not trust the company that built an item to repair it? That last one flies in the face of known patterns of customer behaviour.
I've never disagreed that PS3's will fail outside warranty (or inside warranty for that matter), that is not the point at all. Its if the amount failing (as a percentage of units sold) starts to exceed what is a generally agreed level of acceptable failure.
I'm also quite surprised that you are naive enough to think that people would not lie when posting on boards and forums.
Also what is the forum that has thousands of people who have posted about PS3 failures?
Its also not hundreds of pounds to get a PS3 fixed outside warranty, its £150, a fixed value and still less than a replacement machine. Either that or the Continuous Protection scheme costs a fiver a month.
Show me these thousands of people, and it would have to be in excess of 60,000 people in the UK alone to go over a 3% failure rate.
The most recent figures for PS3 failure rates are from 2008, and are from an independent warranty company (and as such I see no reason why they are not an accurate representation - certainly they are a damn site more accurate that your figures which have quite clearly been pulled out of the air). I have already provided a link to them, but here we go again.....
http://news.filefront.com/xbox-360-failure-rates-at-16-according-to-squaretrade/
....now you ask why no figures yet for 2009.
Well lets look at the two possibilities.
A - They haven't changed in any significant way and as such its not news worthy
B - Sony have somehow managed to muzzle all independent warranty and repair outlets to fake a low failure rate
Occam's Razor shows that option A is the far more likely of these two.
Just to give an example of just how accurate internet forum opinion can be I give you this.....
http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26433074
...look its a forum based poll that clearly shows that of the people who replied 14% of them had a problem with a Wii breaking. Holy hell that must mean that the Wii has a totally unacceptable failure rate and Nintendo must be covering it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now do you believe that the Wii is an inherently faulty machine, or is it simply more likely that people who have a problem are more likely to publicly complain about it than those who do not have a problem.
I only ask because that is exactly what you have done in regard to the PS3.
You don't need to talk to me about Renault and the issues they have had with them, I spent two years in dealership and then two years working in customer service with them (when you get to deal with all the problems the dealers can't/don't want to handle come out) I know exactly what can effect them. I also know that they are still far from the worst around.
The point behind it was that I have never had a problem with a single Renault I owned or drove, which quite clearly demonstrates how useless personal experience is in terms of looking at product and/or brand wide failure trends.
You've just done it again!
"To believe that a device should never fail at all"
Is not the same as assuming
"everything should fail 'at some point'"
My post clearly states that items are capable of failure and you will never get 100% reliability in a mass produced item; anything mass produced will have a failure rate (hell even low batch number hand built items will not be 100% reliable - some will not work/fail).
You have then taken that and claimed that what I actually meant to say was that everything will fail.
Thanks but I know both what I said and exactly what I meant by it, I don't need you to assume for me.
Already shown you the most recent figures, but I guess you fall into category B and think that Sony are somehow stopping independent companies from reporting on this.
People were complaining about it on forums yes, but in addition to that retailers were also up in arms about it, warranty companies were also reporting it.
So it would seem that (based on your arguments here) that Sony are capable of silencing retailers and warranty companies, despite MS failing to do so.
Its also complete nonsense that 360's mainly failed inside warranty, the original one year warranty was extended for exactly this reason. The second two years of a 360 warranty cover only two things, RRoD and E74 failures, anything else and you are not covered at all.
If most failures were within the original 1 year warranty MS would not have estimated (and reported on end of year figures) that this 2 year extension would be costing them in excess of $1.5 billion.
Lets take a look at my quoted piece for this....
....OK I've read and re-read it and I didn't say that you made up figures either?
How do you know its a growing issue?
From forum posts alone, by which token I can now argue that the Wii has a growing problem due to a 14% failure rate.
Figures for 2008 are the most recent available for any console and still represent hard data, something you have singularly failed to provide for any time period at all.
No its not, its still a 3% failure rate.
More units have failed yes, but more have also been produced, that doesn't not mean that failure rates have increased at all.
If a 3% failure rate is still 3% after you have produced almost twice the number of units then your failure rate has not increased at all. Your ratio of good to bad units remains exactly the same, the working units yield is the same.
No matter which way you look at it (unless you have no grasp of statistical analysis at all) failure rates have not grown in this example at all.
More machines have failed in this example, but more have also been produced. That does mean that potentially more people will be around to complain about it, what it doesn't mean is that the product in question is any more or less reliable. In fact its reliability have remained exactly the same as it always was in this example, which does not mean the problem is growing at all.
Or they may fall or remain the same!
If the PS3 has a lifetime failure rate (so the number that fail within the expected lifespan of a product) then if you stop production that will not automatically rise.
Once again that is not what I said at all.
I said that personal experience does not automatically match to country or worldwide trends, for exactly the same reason that me never having a problem with a Renault does not mean that they never go wrong.
At no point did I say that people should not listen to you (or Robyn) and I would like you to either quote me directly as having said that or stop with this behaviour.
The link was to once again illustrate that anecdotal evidence from forums alone does not automatically mean its an accurate representation of the reliability of a product.
Its does not cost almost £100 for Sony just to look at it, they charge a flat fee of £150 to fix a PS3, and it costs NOTHING AT ALL to phone them and ask (and these contact rates will be recorded at customer service centres).
This part however.........
Their figures also do not compensate for people who may have a problem they do not know about
....actually make no sense at all. Are you saying that to be accurate the figure should include those who have a machine that might fail but neither the owner nor Sony know about it?
Now I have to ask how do you know that most PS3's are failing outside the 1 year warranty period? have you done a direct study of the failure rates for both time periods? Or are you simply guessing at this?
While I acknowledge quite openly that figures for this are difficult to find and they are from 2008, your entire argument is based around anecdotal evidence posted on forums and assumptions you have made based on that (some of which are quite inaccurate).
What we do know is that PS3's do fail (no one would be daft enough to dispute that) and that the BR drive is one of the more common form of failure; however as it stands today no evidence at all exists that these failure are outside the industry accepted norms of 3% - 5%.
No third party warranty providers, nor retailers have released press statements saying they know of a problem, or that they even suspect a problem or that failure rates are increasing for any reason. The last such statement released, put fail rates for both the PS3 and Wii well within the normal range.
All we have countering this is forum posts of an indeterminate number claiming to have had a problem. Now I don't dispute that a good number of these people have 100% genuine issues, but I also think it would be ludicrous to not accept that some of these could be inaccurate (people who break an item through abuse will not always admit it), downright lies (lets be honest fan-boys are not exactly beneath this kind of thing) and the result of duplicate posts (I know of one person who posted complains about a PS3 issue on at least four different forums). Given all of this we do not know that these numbers are above a 'normal' failure rate for electronic items at all.
Scaff
You know I love reading this post especially when I have a nice link to post.
http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1
So you still going to continue to tell me that its a solid 3% failure rate because of the stats from 2007? or are you going to hit me with the two possibilities that you somehow 'enforced'.
Well lets look at the two possibilities.
A - They haven't changed in any significant way and as such its not news worthy
B - Sony have somehow managed to muzzle all independent warranty and repair outlets to fake a low failure rateWell lets look at the two possibilities.
And i'm guessing you are now going to tell me 10% is "in the acceptable failure rate for electronics devices". That would be around 2.2million PS3 console failures and almost 1.1 million are due to the Blu Ray drive failure.
Oh and here is the original source - http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009
If you download the PDF it shows disc read issues accounting for nearly half of all PS3 failures !!!
I knew this day would come. The only problem is the Xbox 360's figures are more than double what the PS3's problems are they are being ignored / over shadowed and not brought into the spotlight.
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