PS3 Paranoia

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Then I strongly recommend that you get the electrical system in your house looked into, as that kind of thing is most certainly not normal at all.



Most people?

Sorry but how exactly are you sure that most people fall into these categories?

And why would a consumer not trust the company that built an item to repair it? That last one flies in the face of known patterns of customer behaviour.



I've never disagreed that PS3's will fail outside warranty (or inside warranty for that matter), that is not the point at all. Its if the amount failing (as a percentage of units sold) starts to exceed what is a generally agreed level of acceptable failure.

I'm also quite surprised that you are naive enough to think that people would not lie when posting on boards and forums.

Also what is the forum that has thousands of people who have posted about PS3 failures?

Its also not hundreds of pounds to get a PS3 fixed outside warranty, its £150, a fixed value and still less than a replacement machine. Either that or the Continuous Protection scheme costs a fiver a month.




Show me these thousands of people, and it would have to be in excess of 60,000 people in the UK alone to go over a 3% failure rate.

The most recent figures for PS3 failure rates are from 2008, and are from an independent warranty company (and as such I see no reason why they are not an accurate representation - certainly they are a damn site more accurate that your figures which have quite clearly been pulled out of the air). I have already provided a link to them, but here we go again.....

http://news.filefront.com/xbox-360-failure-rates-at-16-according-to-squaretrade/


....now you ask why no figures yet for 2009.

Well lets look at the two possibilities.

A - They haven't changed in any significant way and as such its not news worthy

B - Sony have somehow managed to muzzle all independent warranty and repair outlets to fake a low failure rate

Occam's Razor shows that option A is the far more likely of these two.

Just to give an example of just how accurate internet forum opinion can be I give you this.....

http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/show_msgs.php?topic_id=26433074

...look its a forum based poll that clearly shows that of the people who replied 14% of them had a problem with a Wii breaking. Holy hell that must mean that the Wii has a totally unacceptable failure rate and Nintendo must be covering it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now do you believe that the Wii is an inherently faulty machine, or is it simply more likely that people who have a problem are more likely to publicly complain about it than those who do not have a problem.

I only ask because that is exactly what you have done in regard to the PS3.




You don't need to talk to me about Renault and the issues they have had with them, I spent two years in dealership and then two years working in customer service with them (when you get to deal with all the problems the dealers can't/don't want to handle come out) I know exactly what can effect them. I also know that they are still far from the worst around.

The point behind it was that I have never had a problem with a single Renault I owned or drove, which quite clearly demonstrates how useless personal experience is in terms of looking at product and/or brand wide failure trends.




You've just done it again!

"To believe that a device should never fail at all"

Is not the same as assuming

"everything should fail 'at some point'"


My post clearly states that items are capable of failure and you will never get 100% reliability in a mass produced item; anything mass produced will have a failure rate (hell even low batch number hand built items will not be 100% reliable - some will not work/fail).

You have then taken that and claimed that what I actually meant to say was that everything will fail.

Thanks but I know both what I said and exactly what I meant by it, I don't need you to assume for me.




Already shown you the most recent figures, but I guess you fall into category B and think that Sony are somehow stopping independent companies from reporting on this.




People were complaining about it on forums yes, but in addition to that retailers were also up in arms about it, warranty companies were also reporting it.

So it would seem that (based on your arguments here) that Sony are capable of silencing retailers and warranty companies, despite MS failing to do so.

Its also complete nonsense that 360's mainly failed inside warranty, the original one year warranty was extended for exactly this reason. The second two years of a 360 warranty cover only two things, RRoD and E74 failures, anything else and you are not covered at all.
If most failures were within the original 1 year warranty MS would not have estimated (and reported on end of year figures) that this 2 year extension would be costing them in excess of $1.5 billion.




Lets take a look at my quoted piece for this....



....OK I've read and re-read it and I didn't say that you made up figures either?



How do you know its a growing issue?

From forum posts alone, by which token I can now argue that the Wii has a growing problem due to a 14% failure rate.

Figures for 2008 are the most recent available for any console and still represent hard data, something you have singularly failed to provide for any time period at all.



No its not, its still a 3% failure rate.

More units have failed yes, but more have also been produced, that doesn't not mean that failure rates have increased at all.

If a 3% failure rate is still 3% after you have produced almost twice the number of units then your failure rate has not increased at all. Your ratio of good to bad units remains exactly the same, the working units yield is the same.

No matter which way you look at it (unless you have no grasp of statistical analysis at all) failure rates have not grown in this example at all.

More machines have failed in this example, but more have also been produced. That does mean that potentially more people will be around to complain about it, what it doesn't mean is that the product in question is any more or less reliable. In fact its reliability have remained exactly the same as it always was in this example, which does not mean the problem is growing at all.




Or they may fall or remain the same!

If the PS3 has a lifetime failure rate (so the number that fail within the expected lifespan of a product) then if you stop production that will not automatically rise.




Once again that is not what I said at all.

I said that personal experience does not automatically match to country or worldwide trends, for exactly the same reason that me never having a problem with a Renault does not mean that they never go wrong.

At no point did I say that people should not listen to you (or Robyn) and I would like you to either quote me directly as having said that or stop with this behaviour.



The link was to once again illustrate that anecdotal evidence from forums alone does not automatically mean its an accurate representation of the reliability of a product.




Its does not cost almost £100 for Sony just to look at it, they charge a flat fee of £150 to fix a PS3, and it costs NOTHING AT ALL to phone them and ask (and these contact rates will be recorded at customer service centres).

This part however.........

Their figures also do not compensate for people who may have a problem they do not know about

....actually make no sense at all. Are you saying that to be accurate the figure should include those who have a machine that might fail but neither the owner nor Sony know about it?

Now I have to ask how do you know that most PS3's are failing outside the 1 year warranty period? have you done a direct study of the failure rates for both time periods? Or are you simply guessing at this?

While I acknowledge quite openly that figures for this are difficult to find and they are from 2008, your entire argument is based around anecdotal evidence posted on forums and assumptions you have made based on that (some of which are quite inaccurate).


What we do know is that PS3's do fail (no one would be daft enough to dispute that) and that the BR drive is one of the more common form of failure; however as it stands today no evidence at all exists that these failure are outside the industry accepted norms of 3% - 5%.

No third party warranty providers, nor retailers have released press statements saying they know of a problem, or that they even suspect a problem or that failure rates are increasing for any reason. The last such statement released, put fail rates for both the PS3 and Wii well within the normal range.

All we have countering this is forum posts of an indeterminate number claiming to have had a problem. Now I don't dispute that a good number of these people have 100% genuine issues, but I also think it would be ludicrous to not accept that some of these could be inaccurate (people who break an item through abuse will not always admit it), downright lies (lets be honest fan-boys are not exactly beneath this kind of thing) and the result of duplicate posts (I know of one person who posted complains about a PS3 issue on at least four different forums). Given all of this we do not know that these numbers are above a 'normal' failure rate for electronic items at all.



Scaff

You know I love reading this post especially when I have a nice link to post.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

So you still going to continue to tell me that its a solid 3% failure rate because of the stats from 2007? or are you going to hit me with the two possibilities that you somehow 'enforced'.

Well lets look at the two possibilities.

A - They haven't changed in any significant way and as such its not news worthy

B - Sony have somehow managed to muzzle all independent warranty and repair outlets to fake a low failure rateWell lets look at the two possibilities.

And i'm guessing you are now going to tell me 10% is "in the acceptable failure rate for electronics devices". That would be around 2.2million PS3 console failures and almost 1.1 million are due to the Blu Ray drive failure.

Oh and here is the original source - http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009

If you download the PDF it shows disc read issues accounting for nearly half of all PS3 failures !!!

I knew this day would come. The only problem is the Xbox 360's figures are more than double what the PS3's problems are they are being ignored / over shadowed and not brought into the spotlight.
 
Last edited:
You know I love reading this post especially when I have a nice link to post.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

So you still going to continue to tell me that its a solid 3% failure rate because of the stats from 2007? or are you going to hit me with the two possibilities that you somehow 'enforced'.



And i'm guessing you are now going to tell me 10% is "in the acceptable failure rate for electronics devices". That would be around 2.2million PS3 console failures and almost 1.1 million are due to the Blu Ray drive failure.

Oh and here is the original source - http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009

If you download the PDF it shows disc read issues accounting for nearly half of all PS3 failures !!!

I do love the manner in which you keep trying to paint me as a rabid fan-boy who will defend a position to the bitter end, no matter what. Not a single thing I have ever posted on this subject has ever come even close to that.

My position has always been (and has never once changed) based on the information avaliable at the time I post, rather that speculation.

I've already posted how I have had issues with Sony products, never stated that the are all reliable and simply asked that we wait until evidence actually arrives.

To which you feel it a requirement to have a pop at me with comments like....


* Awaits condescending reply *


...which you felt the need to add to your post after I had replied.


The sample size for this survey is small (16,000 units), but it does indicate a higher than normal fail rate for the PS3, which I am more than happy to accept.

I have no problem doing so, as I never stated that I had an issue with data from third party warranty firms, rather I stated that was exactly what I was waiting for.

Regards

Scaff
 
You know I love reading this post especially when I have a nice link to post.

http://uk.gamespot.com/news/6216691.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1

So you still going to continue to tell me that its a solid 3% failure rate because of the stats from 2007? or are you going to hit me with the two possibilities that you somehow 'enforced'.



And i'm guessing you are now going to tell me 10% is "in the acceptable failure rate for electronics devices". That would be around 2.2million PS3 console failures and almost 1.1 million are due to the Blu Ray drive failure.

Oh and here is the original source - http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/xbox360-ps3-wii-reliability-08-2009

If you download the PDF it shows disc read issues accounting for nearly half of all PS3 failures !!!

I knew this day would come. The only problem is the Xbox 360's figures are more than double what the PS3's problems are they are being ignored / over shadowed and not brought into the spotlight.
Congratulations on attacking a two month old post with information that came out last week.

The mature thing to do would have been to say that new research shows it is worse than we were previously led to believe, not attacking Scaff for basing his comments on currently available data.

Note: I am not disagreeing with the facts you have presented, just the presentation itself.

What this does do is bring to light that there was/is a possible issue with the PS3 when it came to disc read errors in the early models. Since this is a study of the first two years of ownership we cannot say if there is the same degree of failure on newer models, especially now that we have a completely new redesign. They only looked at newer 360 models to see if RROD is still an issue.

One thing I do notice is that YLOD issues don't register on the study enough to be pointed out, which is what most people complain about.
 
I do love the manner in which you keep trying to paint me as a rabid fan-boy who will defend a position to the bitter end, no matter what. Not a single thing I have ever posted on this subject has ever come even close to that.

My position has always been (and has never once changed) based on the information avaliable at the time I post, rather that speculation.

I've already posted how I have had issues with Sony products, never stated that the are all reliable and simply asked that we wait until evidence actually arrives.

To which you feel it a requirement to have a pop at me with comments like....

No you see I never regarded you as a fanboy at all, my opinion was that you just had to patronize anyones opinions because they were not backed up with facts and figures. All you did was ask for figures to contradict your oh so worthy 3% figures from 1999 (yes thats my attempt at humour that you need not point out that it was infact figures from 2007 / 2008 as I have just done so)

The growing interest on the internet was apparent about PS3's failure and I knew sooner rather than later figures as such would be documented / tested but you would not accept anyones personal opinion as an opinion as such and was stated by yourself several times.


...which you felt the need to add to your post after I had replied.

Actually I was in mid-edit when you posted or it would have worked out quite nice.


The sample size for this survey is small (16,000 units), but it does indicate a higher than normal fail rate for the PS3, which I am more than happy to accept.

I have no problem doing so, as I never stated that I had an issue with data from third party warranty firms, rather I stated that was exactly what I was waiting for.

Regards

Scaff

Nice 👍.
 
Congratulations on attacking a two month old post with information that came out last week.

The mature thing to do would have been to say that new research shows it is worse than we were previously led to believe, not attacking Scaff for basing his comments on currently available data.

Note: I am not disagreeing with the facts you have presented, just the presentation itself.

What this does do is bring to light that there was/is a possible issue with the PS3 when it came to disc read errors in the early models. Since this is a study of the first two years of ownership we cannot say if there is the same degree of failure on newer models, especially now that we have a completely new redesign. They only looked at newer 360 models to see if RROD is still an issue.

One thing I do notice is that YLOD issues don't register on the study enough to be pointed out, which is what most people complain about.

And Scaff's backup has arrived?

Yeah lets not talk about maturity here when you cannot tell that yesterday was not last week. The PDF report might be dated 28th Aug 2009 but not even gamespot had the article posted till yesterday upon which I stumbled upon today. Are you going to send an email to gamespot to complain about their late news???

And furthermore my reason for my posting style throughout this thread was due to being patronized from my first to my last post by Scaff as my opinion on the matter was not valid as I had no hard evidence of my 'opinions'.
Basicly i was not going to post a link to every single forum / document / blog with evidence as there was hundreds of thousands of URL's I could have posted but they also didnt have evidence of failure to production figures.
 
No you see I never regarded you as a fanboy at all, my opinion was that you just had to patronize anyones opinions because they were not backed up with facts and figures. All you did was ask for figures to contradict your oh so worthy 3% figures from 1999 (yes thats my attempt at humour that you need not point out that it was infact figures from 2007 / 2008 as I have just done so)
I stated that I wanted to wait for actual figures rather than use opinion as if it were fact and that patronising?

To be blunt if anyone here is guilty of patronising comment designed to attack the person rather that the point its you.

And Scaff's backup has arrived?

barryl85
* Awaits condescending reply *

barryl85
Oh how the irony

You seem to mistake my not being willing to accept opinion as fact as being patronising, and then feel that makes it fine for you to have a dig at me.

I will be straightforward in this regard, its not acceptable at all. Take as much issue as you want with the words I post, but don't make it personal.

Furthermore if you feel I have been attacking you then feel free to contact an Admin and ask them to check my conduct on this thread.



The growing interest on the internet was apparent about PS3's failure and I knew sooner rather than later figures as such would be documented / tested but you would not accept anyones personal opinion as an opinion as such and was stated by yourself several times.
No what I would not accept was personal opinion being described as fact or proof alone. That quite a bit different from refusing to accept someones opion as an opinion.


Actually I was in mid-edit when you posted or it would have worked out quite nice.
So the exact moment you wanted to post it would have made a personal dig OK would it?




Scaff
 
Yeah lets not talk about maturity here when you cannot tell that yesterday was not last week. The PDF report might be dated 28th Aug 2009 but not even gamespot had the article posted till yesterday upon which I stumbled upon today. Are you going to send an email to gamespot to complain about their late news???
Assuming I did make a date reading mistake it has very little to do with maturity. But as you yourself just pointed out, I was referring to the date on the report you linked to, as that was when the information was first available. I was not referring to when it was reported. The information came out last week.

Oddly, by trying to correct me you are only hurting yourself, as presenting evidence only a day old to refute a two-month old statement is worse than some that is almost a week old. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.

And furthermore my reason for my posting style throughout this thread was due to being patronized from my first to my last post by Scaff as my opinion on the matter was not valid as I had no hard evidence of my 'opinions'.
After a brief re-read of the thread, you were openly stating your opinion was via personal observation only, and refused to accept that then currently available statistics said otherwise. You were trying to find ways to point out that the data was flawed, going so far as stating that some people just weren't reporting it.

Ok fair point but no one even hinted Sony is lying, my point is that they dont know about all of everyones issues because there are alot of people who are refusing to even contact Sony about their PS3 as it costs almost £100 just for Sony to have a look at it. Their figures also do not compensate for people who may have a problem they do not know about.

So they cant lie if they dont know about it and in this situation with most PS3's failing after warranty period it leaves a big gap in the figures not everyone has the kind of money lying around to pay Sony to fix it or people refuse to pay it as they feel robbed.

If your claims about errors in the statistical data were correct then the study you linked us to today would be different.

Basicly i was not going to post a link to every single forum / document / blog with evidence as there was hundreds of thousands of URL's I could have posted but they also didnt have evidence of failure to production figures.
But that was all anecdotal evidence, and if we go by anecdotal evidence then the 360 supposedly had a 60% failure rate in some blog and forum polls. And obviously that isn't right.

Yes, the anecdotal evidence worked out to be correct in this case, but it is so often incorrect that you cannot expect anyone to take an opinion based on anecdotal evidence seriously. If we did then we would all believe in alien visitors, the Loch Ness Monster, and Sasquatches. When it comes to consumer products you can only go by official warranty and service claims because anecdotal evidence only points out what the loudest, whiniest people think is happening.
 
Furthermore if you feel I have been attacking you then feel free to contact an Admin and ask them to check my conduct on this thread.

I've asked the staff to peer review the thread and all posts within it and take any action they feel is needed.


Scaff
 
I stated that I wanted to wait for actual figures rather than use opinion as if it were fact and that patronising?

To be blunt if anyone here is guilty of patronising comment designed to attack the person rather that the point its you.

Maybe my 'attacks' as you will call them were more obvious as I do not try to twist peoples opinions in my posts to make them look stupid as you have done with me on more than one occasion.


You seem to mistake my not being willing to accept opinion as fact as being patronising, and then feel that makes it fine for you to have a dig at me.

I will be straightforward in this regard, its not acceptable at all. Take as much issue as you want with the words I post, but don't make it personal.

Furthermore if you feel I have been attacking you then feel free to contact an Admin and ask them to check my conduct on this thread.

You see this is the problem, i never asked you to accept my opinion as fact, i merely stated my opinion on the matter in which you had to ask for facts and figures on every tiny intricate detail of my posts.

And i do not see why you see my postings as personal other than the fact i found a report upon which you can clearly see these 'figures' you asked for countless times. in which i took great pleasure in postling.


No what I would not accept was personal opinion being described as fact or proof alone. That quite a bit different from refusing to accept someones opion as an opinion.

I never stated any of my opinions as being facts. I merely stated 'in my opinion' that the figures would be above the 3% in the statistics from 2 years previous.


So the exact moment you wanted to post it would have made a personal dig OK would it?

Again you are putting the situation into your own perspective to make viewers happy.

It was humour, a thing that alot of people have not caught on to what it is yet.

I didnt even state I awaited a reply from you personally - it just so happened that you were in subject of the post at the time.



Heres a few examples of where you have quoted me in the hope to belittle me and my posts.

What I said was that expecting 100% reliability is totally unrealistic, or do you believe that be picking a Honda it will never go wrong? If that's the case I'm sure it will be news that will interest the Honda Warranty Clerks I am training in Bristol next week. don't worry I will mention it to them, always worth a quick laugh.

I never said (at any point) i expected 100% reliability - i said i expected reliability which you took it upon yourself to 'assume' thats what I meant.

In reality I was meaning that Honda's are largely more reliable than Renault's

In future please don't take a quite clear statement and twist it to try and suit your own perspective, I don't appreciate it. I never came even close to implying what you have stated here.

You tried to use your net muscles here saying I twisted your statement when clearly I had only voiced my opinion on a statement that you had made.

I'm also quite surprised that you are naive enough to think that people would not lie when posting on boards and forums.

Twice I posted my defence on this - as you said that you cant believe we are listening to poeple on the internet and twice I tried to get you to understand that I am one of those 'poeple' posting about the PS3's failure on the internet - and what was your next statement??? see below:

At no point did I say that people should not listen to you (or Robyn) and I would like you to either quote me directly as having said that or stop with this behaviour.

This actually made me laugh....... Sir Moderator

Thanks but I know both what I said and exactly what I meant by it, I don't need you to assume for me.

It was an assumption on my part not yours so why you made this statement was unclear.

Show me these thousands of people

Clearly trying to sound big and call me out when all i had stated was my opinion and guess what - it payed off with the latest findings.

....now you ask why no figures yet for 2009.

Well lets look at the two possibilities.

A - They haven't changed in any significant way and as such its not news worthy

B - Sony have somehow managed to muzzle all independent warranty and repair outlets to fake a low failure rate

Occam's Razor shows that option A is the far more likely of these two.

Just to give an example of just how accurate internet forum opinion can be I give you this.....

http://uk.gamespot.com/pages/forums/...ic_id=26433074

...look its a forum based poll that clearly shows that of the people who replied 14% of them had a problem with a Wii breaking. Holy hell that must mean that the Wii has a totally unacceptable failure rate and Nintendo must be covering it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah - and this wasnt condescending at all - basicly trying to make me look like a fool.

When time after time I stated 'in my opinion' I never once said I had black and white evidence.

So it would seem that (based on your arguments here) that Sony are capable of silencing retailers and warranty companies, despite MS failing to do so.

Trying to make me sound like an idiot again with this one - when i never once made this ludicrous claim that you did.

My argument was that Sony would not know about every failed PS3 console as the repair cost was that large im sure alot of people wouldnt even consider calling them.

No matter which way you look at it (unless you have no grasp of statistical analysis at all) failure rates have not grown in this example at all.

Again with the attacks as i provided you with a loose example of some figures - You knew exactly what i meant with my figures that if Sony were producing and selling PS3's faster than they could fail the failure % would always be a small figure but again you twisted it to get your little dig.

How do you know its a growing issue?

From forum posts alone, by which token I can now argue that the Wii has a growing problem due to a 14% failure rate.

I never once hit out with any evidence from forums - as i knew it is not viable, i only stated that i had been doing alot of browsing and looking into the issue which was clearly growing.

At one point I was on a blogspot which the guy even said he had over 300,000 hits on his topic 'PS3 Blu ray of death' and his blog had never even had 20,000 hits before he created the article - now i never posted this because it wasnt viable evidence. Not that i wanted to use it as evidence i just wanted to back up my opinion that i knew it must have been a growing issue !



Its great how people can use their intellectual ability to try and belittle someone and their opinions and anything you say back is believed to be a personal attack when all that was provided was the evidence asked for with a bit of sarcasm.
 
To simplify this discussion, it's not a matter of "if it will fail" but "when it will fail". I have been conditioned as a consumer to expect failure, sooner or later. The goal here is to liquidate that equipment before it dies, in my opinion. I will testify my personal track record in two years of gaming with the latest consoles, I had gone through three 360's and am on my fourth. I replace my launch PS3 with a new one, not because it was broken, but because my replacement warranty was almost up so I upgraded to a new model. I have become a avid user of replacement warranties on electronic equipment, and more so, specifically with game consoles. I won't buy one without it because it WILL fail.

I have a hard time looking at statistical data to anticipate what my experience is going to be, especially with consoles. I try to run clean, conditioned power to my electronics and try to do as much preventative maintenance as I can. Cleaning, not leaving it on when not in use, good air flow, ect.... How many people are running their PS3 through a $600 line conditioner? Of course optics going out should have nothing to do with power, but mother boards getting blown, ect certainly does.

As far as the tone of this thread, I am reading a lot of opinions and interpretations that help enforce or contradict those opinions. I still see little 'fact' that can help be deduce "what will happen to you". Not that I like it, but rest assured, electronic failure is to be expected because that's what it does. Moving parts, exploding caps, overheating components....The variables are abundant. I have come to expect Sony products to have lower failure rates than other brands and have come to trust their quality controls over other companies as a lot of their parts are controlled by Sony, either by their staff or by their quality control guidelines where as other companies farm out parts from whomever without any control over the quality.

By the way, did you hear that Pioneer isn't making TV's any longer? Their TV's, mainly their Plasma line of TV's were being priced out of the market from the mass of LCD products flooding the market. Consumers help play a part in cheaper electronics. As consumers, we are constantly barking at price and sales numbers of lower cost product creates a reaction by the manufacturer. The manufacturer has a fine line to walk trying to lower cost of product while trying to maintain quality. Unfortunately, quality is what suffers at the expense of lower cost products. So then the question is, what is an acceptable failure rate.

From my personal experience and from my reading internet problem reports I would buy a PS3 over a 360 if all I was looking at was problem free, longevity of the product.

I think stats are fine to look at to give you an idea, but a person needs to look at real world examples to supplement conclusions of opinions.
 
I've asked the staff to peer review the thread and all posts within it and take any action they feel is needed.

None required.

Maybe my 'attacks' as you will call them were more obvious as I do not try to twist peoples opinions in my posts to make them look stupid as you have done with me on more than one occasion.

An opinion on a statistical issue with zero factual backup is worth exactly that - zero. It's not like you were arguing if red is better than blue.
 
Maybe my 'attacks' as you will call them were more obvious as I do not try to twist peoples opinions in my posts to make them look stupid as you have done with me on more than one occasion.
Simply not true in any way.

On not one occation have I miss-quoted are changed the post of a single person over this entire forum, let alone in this thread.

If you believe I am trying to make people look stupid I would suggest the proble may be more at your end than mine.




You see this is the problem, i never asked you to accept my opinion as fact, i merely stated my opinion on the matter in which you had to ask for facts and figures on every tiny intricate detail of my posts.

And i do not see why you see my postings as personal other than the fact i found a report upon which you can clearly see these 'figures' you asked for countless times. in which i took great pleasure in postling.

The entire premise of your argument was that unconfirmed web posts were evidence enough of a high failure rate, that to my mind is most certainly presenting opinion (not just your own) as fact.

You may be happy to accept that, I am not. A position I am perfectly free to hold.

Again you are putting the situation into your own perspective to make viewers happy.
If you believe that you are so far wide of the mark it almost beyond belief.



I didnt even state I awaited a reply from you personally - it just so happened that you were in subject of the post at the time.
In a post that quoted me I find that hard to believe.


Heres a few examples of where you have quoted me in the hope to belittle me and my posts.



*snip*
Strange because I see a lot of posts with me taking issue with the point you are making and not with you personally.


Trying to make me sound like an idiot again with this one - when i never once made this ludicrous claim that you did.

My argument was that Sony would not know about every failed PS3 console as the repair cost was that large im sure alot of people wouldnt even consider calling them.



Again with the attacks as i provided you with a loose example of some figures - You knew exactly what i meant with my figures that if Sony were producing and selling PS3's faster than they could fail the failure % would always be a small figure but again you twisted it to get your little dig.
No I took issue with how you had used the figures, as it was mathematically incorrect.



I never once hit out with any evidence from forums - as i knew it is not viable, i only stated that i had been doing alot of browsing and looking into the issue which was clearly growing.

At one point I was on a blogspot which the guy even said he had over 300,000 hits on his topic 'PS3 Blu ray of death' and his blog had never even had 20,000 hits before he created the article - now i never posted this because it wasnt viable evidence. Not that i wanted to use it as evidence i just wanted to back up my opinion that i knew it must have been a growing issue !
Sorry but that certainly appeared to be the principal form of 'evidence' you were using.



Its great how people can use their intellectual ability to try and belittle someone and their opinions and anything you say back is believed to be a personal attack when all that was provided was the evidence asked for with a bit of sarcasm.
Once again way off the mark (and nothing I have posted will change that.


As for the 'Sir Mod' and 'net muscle flexing' comments, what exactly are these but personal digs?

You will notice that not once has I ever even come close to these kinds of comment, yet you still insist on throwing them around.


All I have ever asked for is independent figures on PS3 failure rates (and on this I have been quite consistent), sol why do you see to be trying to use this to score some kind of wierd web victory over me?


Scaff
 
Could you guys take it outside please! :rolleyes:

The 360s obviously had a seriously high failure rate, the PS3 may be more reliable, but I think it's starting to become clear that all is not as it should be with the PS3 either. I recently had my PS3 repaired after one & a half years of use (disc read) for $150. This is clearly not a good deal, especially in the light of the recent price reduction of the new PS3s, as I get a used unit with only a 90 day warranty as opposed to a new unit with a 1 year warranty.

I think the disc read failures (which seem to be the most common issue) would seem like a more acceptable problem if Sony allowed 3rd party (cheaper!) repairs of this relatively simple problem (or a cheaper in-house repair).
 
The 360s obviously had a seriously high failure rate, the PS3 may be more reliable, but I think it's starting to become clear that all is not as it should be with the PS3 either. I recently had my PS3 repaired after one & a half years of use (disc read) for $150. This is clearly not a good deal, especially in the light of the recent price reduction of the new PS3s, as I get a used unit with only a 90 day warranty as opposed to a new unit with a 1 year warranty.

I agree with Biggles, the PS3 may be reliable but its no where near the levels that where played up in its first year of launch. As time has gone on I have noticed now that the PS3 has loads of issues and to be honest its pissed me off to no end now.

My 60GB BR drive failed after about a year and a half useage and its a very common problem. I have like 5 games, no BR films and hardly ever played for long periods of time and now its been a paperweight for nearly half a year. I will not pay for someone elses refurb.

Apparently a design flaw with the laser assembly design means that the console will need fixing roughly every year and that is unacceptable for something so damn expensive.

Robin.
 
In my case, they repaired my PS3, they did not send me a "refurbished" console. To be honest, a year & a half's use represents reasonable value to me, but it's still annoying that it should have this clearly identifiable flaw. I would be more accepting of it if the repair could be done for half the price - I have a feeling Sony is making a hefty profit on this "scheduled" repair.
 
One thing is certain, and will always be true, if its made by man, its going to break. When you walk in the store, pick out your machine, your rolling the dice, plain and simple. One machine may be more reliable than the other...its just something us gamers have to face. soooo how about that weather?
 
After not using my PS3 for 4 days, i have just tried to turn it on and got a green light for a second, slight yellow then red light/off.

it happens evrytime i try to turn it on.

my COD disc is in it still.

DO I........

....Buy a secondhand one and copy the hard rive?? or is my hard drive the problem??

....Buy a new one and swap the hard drive over?? do they fit??

....try and get a replacement from sony??

....get mine fixed locally??

boo hooooo
 
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