PS3 Rules & XBox 360 Sucks! (The Official PS3 - XBox360 Argument Thread)

[tha_con]

Well the same could be said about GT4 for that matter really.

GT4 was hardly a rushed rehash.

While you guy's complain and whine about dumb subjects like damage and reverse lights, I was busy getting excited for a wide variety of cars, regardless of "power" like most begginner motor heads are (yes beginner, because as you get more experience, you learn that it is indeed fun to push the limits of weaker cars, but you video game motor heads wouldn't know that).

Say what you want, but GT4 was superb, and was no where near rushed, and it pushed the system to it's limits, if that's something short of an accomplishment to you, you need to stop discussing video games.

 

[Swift]

I for one, do not mind waiting, it assures me of two things. One, there is time and effort being put into the sequal, even if I don't like it, it'll have something new and interesting. Two, I'm going feel that the series is long lived, rather than see a sequal every year and I'm forced to feel the series is being rushed and will end soon.

The only "sequels" that should come out ever year are sports games. And even then most are just updated rosters. with a few new options.

 

[tha_con]

Exactly.

I think if EA really wanted to make some money though, they would release them once every two years, and offer roster updates and such for 20 bucks. They would save so much money, and consumers would be happier too.

Sports games are the only games I think aren't worth the 50 bucks people shell out for them yearly, only because so little changes come about it's rediculous. Basically that's EA's money maker, without Madden, they'd be hurt, because they don't make a ton of quality titles other than that.

Hell I even think their "Street" series is getting extremely old, they haven't done anything innovative and new since NBA Street2, the rest are clones for cash...weak.

 

[T5-R]

Not to say I don't like competition, but I feel that the industry right now is so "competition driven" that titles are being pushed out just for the sake to beat out others.

I would rather companies take time (like God of War, took 3 years) to put out quality games, rather than push out sequals that suck (DMC2...then we wait two years and get a golden classic with DMC3).

Do you see what I mean? I mean, everyone was so "excited" about Halo 2, when in reality it's nothing short of a rehash with a few extra's, just like a huge abundance of sequals.

I for one, do not mind waiting, it assures me of two things. One, there is time and effort being put into the sequal, even if I don't like it, it'll have something new and interesting. Two, I'm going feel that the series is long lived, rather than see a sequal every year and I'm forced to feel the series is being rushed and will end soon.

Thats very true, although the english I used didn't really portray what I meant. I was actually meaning slowly incremental as in small differences between sequels rather than complaining about lengthy sequel development time But your right too many games are rushed these days and competition is partly responsible although publishers are probably more so.

 

[code_kev]

GT4 was hardly a rushed rehash.

Granted, but it was essentially a re-hash.

While you guy's complain and whine about dumb subjects like damage and reverse lights, I was busy getting excited for a wide variety of cars, regardless of "power" like most begginner motor heads are (yes beginner, because as you get more experience, you learn that it is indeed fun to push the limits of weaker cars, but you video game motor heads wouldn't know that).

Dumb subjects to you, but to me little details like this make a racing experience more authentic. I'd gladly sacrifice 400 of Gt4's cars to have a better racing experience. Go figure. In REAL LIFE pushing slow cars is fun, but in a game it's simply boring.

Say what you want, but GT4 was superb, and was no where near rushed, and it pushed the system to it's limits, if that's something short of an accomplishment to you, you need to stop discussing video games.

I'll have you know, I agree with all the points there, but it was a re-hash, and wasn't really as good as it should have been imo. It was more of an upgrade then a full rebuild. Some bits were ofc loverly, but others were very dissapointing.

 

[a6m5]

Not to say I don't like competition, but I feel that the industry right now is so "competition driven" that titles are being pushed out just for the sake to beat out others.

My thinking was similar to T5-R, but what you say here really do make sense. 👍

 

[JohnBM01]

"ZOMG!! PS3 R T3H RUL3Z0R AND T3H XB0X R CR8P!!"

I never understand why people type like that. I can barely make stuff like this out. Or am I getting a little too old? Hey, I'm 22 years, 4.6 months old. Not getting any older.

👍 to tha_con for Post #181. Little issues aside, it's a new beginning for the franchise. Who the hell wants yearly sequels of games? Who wants yearly sequels of a platformer, a racing game, or whatever? Racing games (except licensed franchises like Formula One and NASCAR) are rarely done in yearly runs. What would you rather have, a complete and thorough game that will last you a few years, or the same game with little improvements each year? These games probably aren't as easy to make. I like the Gran Turismo series, but who wants Gran Turismo 2005, Gran Turismo 2006, and so on? Who wants HALO 2005, HALO 2006, HALO 2007...? Do you want the same game over again with little or no improvements? This is why you must evolve with a game and with a game franchise. Evolving a series doesn't happen overnight. You just don't say, "I want you to evolve before I come back from my lunch break," to a game and expect it to fulfill your demands. An upcoming game sequel/prequel is trial and error. All you know about your product is that it will either be successful, or fall into the pits of Hell. THAT'S WHY YOU MAKE THE GAME. That's why you try to make it shine. When the game is at its best, make it better. Continually make it better until you make it into something you KNOW people will love. This is the same strategy I once heard for a certain author... I believe his name was the late Rupyard Kipling, who made a story, tried to make it better, and keep doing it until it's gold.

If a game really NEEDS yearly updates, then this is no problem. As for the rest of us... I guess you'll have to wait. You DO want the best games from your favorite company, right? Think Microsoft. Think Polyphony Digital. Think EA (not exactly EA Sports). There are huge sequels for a reason.

 

[T5-R]

Ahh you'd be used to it John if you played enough online games. If you want a really fast (lame) introduction, play Counterstrike online for the PC for 5 minutes. Although unless you have ear defenders, I'd recommend disabling the inbuilt voice comms

 

[tha_con]

Granted, but it was essentially a re-hash.



Dumb subjects to you, but to me little details like this make a racing experience more authentic. I'd gladly sacrifice 400 of Gt4's cars to have a better racing experience. Go figure. In REAL LIFE pushing slow cars is fun, but in a game it's simply boring.



I'll have you know, I agree with all the points there, but it was a re-hash, and wasn't really as good as it should have been imo. It was more of an upgrade then a full rebuild. Some bits were ofc loverly, but others were very dissapointing.

Okay code...

So, you're telling me, that the time it took to render/texture and code all of those cars was essentially a "rehash".

Or that the upgraded physics were essentialy rehashed.

Or that the improved sound over previous iterations were essentially rehashed.

Or the improved track detail was essentially rehashed.

Or the inclusion of the best steering wheel to date on a console, with the best force feedback to date, on a console...was essentially rehashed.

come on, they did everything they possibly could within the limits of the hardware, seriously do you understand what you are saying, and how stupid it sounds?

Honestly you sit and type, and think that with 400 less cars you could have your damage? Or that you could have your precious little reverse lights? Or skid marks?

Those aren't TIME problems, or SPACE problems, they are HARDWARE issues. You know this, yet you still plee ignorance and choose to believe that with fewer cars it would have IMPROVED the game, or made space for other things, even though the hardware is so limited...SERIOUSLY.

Think about it before you reply kev, because you are making no sense. At all. It's not rehashed, and for the hardware it was on, they put out on hell of a GT, and put a ton of effort into it to get it to run well...hell the even gave you great resolution options...yet still...it's rehashed....right.

Edit: About slow cars, right...

Anyone can tune a super car and drive it, and get good times, it's significantly easier, but pushing a lower HP car raw with no upgrades, that's fun competition. If you don't have comp. then of course it's not fun, but when you are challenging someone else, and constantly going back and forth cutting times by fractions of seconds, it's break neck, and a great deal of fun.


Also...just asking, not trying to imply anything, but have you ever raced a car before? i.e. autocross/drag/road racing (not street racing). Just wondering.

 

[TVRKing]

*Detects imminent argument between tha con and code kev*

*Leaves quietly*

 

[blindedside]

Even though my personal fav. are the playstations, I still want all the systems coming out to do good. The competion should keep prices down and pressure the companies to make better games.

 

[code_kev]

code...

So, you're telling me, that the time it took to render/texture and code all of those cars was essentially a "rehash".

Or that the upgraded physics were essentialy rehashed.

Or that the improved sound over previous iterations were essentially rehashed.

Or the improved track detail was essentially rehashed.

Well that's pretty much what bungie did with Halo 2, and people still called it a re hash. It's not like they started from scratch, it's essential an update, GT3 but polished up, the alterations where there, but it wasn't exactly significantly different.

Or the inclusion of the best steering wheel to date on a console, with the best force feedback to date, on a console...was essentially rehashed.

Eh? I was talking about the game, not 3rd party wheels. And no, it IS a rehash, the wheel and FFB are not significantly different.

come on, they did everything they possibly could within the limits of the hardware, seriously do you understand what you are saying, and how stupid it sounds?

Tha_con, I REALISE it's a great game for a PS2. I wasn't talking about the game from a technical point of view anyway.

Honestly you sit and type, and think that with 400 less cars you could have your damage? Or that you could have your precious little reverse lights? Or skid marks?

Nope, I don't think that, I just used it as an example. I'm fully aware it's limitations based.

Those aren't TIME problems, or SPACE problems, they are HARDWARE issues. You know this, yet you still plee ignorance and choose to believe that with fewer cars it would have IMPROVED the game, or made space for other things, even though the hardware is so limited...SERIOUSLY.

Nope I don't think that.

Think about it before you reply kev, because you are making no sense. At all. It's not rehashed, and for the hardware it was on, they put out on hell of a GT, and put a ton of effort into it to get it to run well...hell the even gave you great resolution options...yet still...it's rehashed....right.

So what your saying is that all the iterations of Fifa are not rehashes, simply because they look better and have a few more moves etc?

Also...just asking, not trying to imply anything, but have you ever raced a car before? i.e. autocross/drag/road racing (not street racing). Just wondering.

WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING!!!1! Just kidding . Nope I've never raced a car, but I've given them some wellie if ya know what I mean

 

[Swift]

Well that's pretty much what bungie did with Halo 2, and people still called it a re hash.



Eh? I was talking about the game, not 3rd party wheels.

Uh, you do realize that the DFP was built specifically for GT4 and PD right? I know it's compatible with other games. But it was MADE for GT4.

Tha_con, I REALISE it's a great game for a PS2, but it is still abit of a reharsh.

Yes. It is. The essentially took GT3 and built on that.

I find myself wondering how similar GT3 and GT4 is and I'm having a hard time outside of lack of damage and not the best sound improvements.

WHAT ARE YOU IMPLYING!!!1! Just kidding . Nope I've never raced a car, but I've given them some wellie if ya know what I mean

Well, if you've driven on a track, you would understand how much realism GT4 truly has.

 

[tha_con]

Well that's pretty much what bungie did with Halo 2, and people still called it a re hash. It's not like they started from scratch, it's essential an update, GT3 but polished up, the alterations where there, but it wasn't exactly significantly different.

GT4 is quite different from GT3. Hell I had my import GT4 for maybe three weeks? When GT4 was released here, there was a competition at Gamestop, I won it by FOUR SECONDS on my first run because it was so incredibly easy. It was a Dodge Viper SRT-10 on Leguna Seca, hot lap comp. So much easier than GT4.

Halo 2 had very little "improvement". The "work" put into it was significanly less.

To me, rehash means they took a product, did very little to improve it, and release it to the world.

So, with that said. Most Sports games=rehash, because we see new players, and new menus, but we don't see new player models, or new features (often).

GT4: nearly 600 new cars, Photomode, B-Spec, tons of new tracks, Lan play, better physics, slightly improved sound, and "1080i" support. No small feat, and definately NOT a rehash, by any means. Period.


I still am not understanding why you brought up you'd rather give up 400 cars...I fail to see how it would make room for any improvement anywhere aside from your expectations, but what you are expecting isn't possible, so how would 400 cars less effect anything? Because you don't drive them?

And I was just wondering, I race regularly, both Autocross and Road course, and I own 3 sets of rims, so I know how different tires respond...most (if not 90%) of the people on this site have never even experienced loss of griip in real life in a controlled situation where you induced it...so it's frustrating for me to hear individuals talk about "physics" and "tire models" when in fact they are only speaking off of opinions of others and what they have read on the internet...

 

[TVRKing]

GT4: nearly 600 new cars,

Half of which being the same car with a different badge.

Nissan Skyline being a case in point.

Edit = Whilst your on the subject of physics, I have witnessed a Nissan Skyline getting absolutley destroyed by a Renault Clio V6. How is that realistic? It's a well know fact that the real Skyline has been clocked at doing the 'Burg in under 8 minutes.

 

[JohnBM01]

Not to try to turn this into a GT argument, my only real racing experience outside of video and computer games was go-kart racing. In the February 2002 version of Road and Track magazine, there is an article called "If You Want to Race Big Time, Start Here." It is about Jose Guillermo Gidley (Memo Gidley) racing a Trackmagic go-kart saying that everything you need to know about piloting a 800+ hp Champ Car can be learned in a shifter kart. My experience, however, came from indoor karting at Houston Indoor Kartzone, here locally next to Ferrari of Houston. Behind the wheel, I felt the G-forces from the kart as I rolled around the surface. When you normally hit the wall, you bounce right back. When I went racing once against my brother and his friends, I banged into the wall hard on the side, and I got whacked pretty hard.

Then when I played Gran Turismo 4, what I learned from karting quickly reminded me of the new driving physics. It isn't like I have experience in racing Radicals at Brands Hatch (like "Fifth Gear" did), racing Spec Racer Fords at Mid-Ohio, or anything like that. I think for good reason, racing go-karts is usually a great way to understand car control, even from a very low HP kart (unless you are racing the super cool Superkarts with more body work and adjustable racing wings). So with my limited racing experience, it kind of helped me understand the racing dynamics in GT4.

Carry on with the PS3 vs. XBOX360 battle...

 

[Swift]

.most (if not 90%) of the people on this site have never even experienced loss of griip in real life in a controlled situation where you induced it...so it's frustrating for me to hear individuals talk about "physics" and "tire models" when in fact they are only speaking off of opinions of others and what they have read on the internet...

If it wasn't so long, I'd put that in my sig. As it stands, I'm going to put it in the GT4 drifting forum somewhere.

That's just a very true and profound statement! 👍

 

[Robin]

This thread is going to end up as long as the Forza Vs GT4 thread!............................................................................



.............But Im not complaning!

 

[dolande]

My experience, however, came from indoor karting at Houston Indoor Kartzone,

Mine too . The first time I thought wft only 8 minutes!!! I doubt I’ve could kept my concentration longer than that

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

During the showing of "Judgment Day" earlier tonight, something was said by one of the co-hosts, Tommy Tallarico. Tommy said this about the XBOX360:

(not direct quote) "...Microsoft is making a big mistake releasing this system this year. It's too early, they've shown basically all the games they wanted to release, it's a big mistake..." -Tommy Tallarico, co-host of G4's "Judgment Day"

Agree or disagree? And does it make any difference if this game system was released to the public before, during, or after the PS3's launch?

^ In fact, I just wrote the following for ForzaCentral. It's not going over so well, LOL:

Many observers, including the well-knowns like Adam Sessler and Tommy Tallarico have boldly gone on the public record as saying they were surprised at the difference between Sony's presentation and Microsoft's. Tallarico came right out and expressed his misgivings upfront:

"I'd like to go on record as stating that I think Microsoft is making a big mistake by having the machine come out this year. I think it's too early," he said, making the observation that the graphics on what was shown look only marginally better than what's already on Xbox, and stating "it looks like a tricked-out PC."

I have now had the opportunity to absorb and analyze a sizable amount of the gameplay footage that was shown at E3. I get G4TechTV and have been watching all of their E3 summary shows. I actually recorded their special Cimenatech episode which featured nothing but E3 footage from last week.

While the Xbox 360 is a very exciting news item and its imminent launch in a mere few months is fantastically titillating, I must say that I am really surprised at the low quality of what was shown at E3. However you look at it, Microsoft came unprepared. They shouldn't even have been showing unpolished games like the new Tony Hawk, which was just embarrassing. It looked worse than many current-gen titles. Juxtapose that with the footage from PS3: Prerendered or not, no new PS3 title will ever be confused with a current-gen game.

Game developers across the board--with no particular ties or allegiance--are stating that this time around the tables are turned and that PS3 is roughly "one order of magnitude" more advanced than its competition. Sony is going to be leading the technological charge once again. I'll bet you the most capable PCs will be matching and surpassing the Xbox 360 by the close of 2006.

It will take somewhat longer to catch up with The Cell. It will happen quite inevitably of course, but it will be a more arduous climb.

- -

'Kay, so there's my little guesswork/observation. Comments, agree/disagree?

-GNJ-

 

[McLaren]

I remember that John. Nice reply. 👍

 

[Kent]

Nice post "guynamedjohn"... John. 👍

Remember not to take the E3 stuff too seriously.

I've gotta say though, you make a good point.

Pre-rendered or not, the new stuff is looking amazing.

In fact, the new killzone (pre-rendered IMO) footage was on the level of FF: Advent Children. 👍

Sony seems to have replicated the tech advances of the ps1->ps2 with the ps2->ps3. ... I just hope that is how it really ends up.

Who knows, it's still a bit early to get too worked up.
I'm sure the end product will be great in any case.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

Kent...

And I am sure that both consoles will kick some serious posterior, for that matter.

Once all the developer-kits have been tweaked and rolled out, I'll bet you Xbox 360 will absolutely deliver some of the finest titles of the next generation.

It just won't own the next generation in hardware, like it's been doing for four years. And that surprised me - it really did.

Hey I like your analogy. It *appears* that:

PS3 is to the PS2 what PS2 was to the PS1.​

And if that is the case, then that's what we call a true quantum leap.

Well, cheers!
-John

 

[livemusic]

Well, PS2 is about 10 times more powerful than PSOne. It was said that PS3 will be 35 more powerful than PS2 though, but I don´t think so.

 

[JohnBM01]

Im'a tell you something. I think "VelocityGirl" has plenty to be proud of with the XBOX360. I actually thought "Gears of War" looked pretty cool. I don't know if XBOX-heads would consider this as another Halo, but it does feature some wicked graphics from what I've seen in pictures. Racing gamers have PGR3 coming out, and if the single-player experience doesn't seem satisfying, you'll enjoy XBOX Live support for it, including cash prizes. If this happens, PGR3 will likely be a racing version of the PGA Tour. You know, like how you have Tiger Woods, Phil Mickelson, and Vijay Singh and all, then you have the money listings. Shoot, if someone won a million dollars in a PGR3 showdown, he/she doesn't have to race his/her souped-up Porsche Carrera GT in Forza- he/she can buy his/her own with that money! Now if only that person could find some good exotic car insurance for that Carrera GT... Believe it or not, I don't think the XBOX360 looks like a hyped-up PC. I said the XBOX was like a fully rigged-out PC in the form of a console, but the XBOX360 looks nothing like a PC to me.

It's time I take this to the people. G4 Show "Judgment Day" with Tommy Tallarico and Victor Lucas had their report on which brand had the best showing at E3, and hands down, it was the Sony offerings with Tommy and Victor giving respective 9.5/10 ratings. G4 show "Filter" with the cutie Diane Mizota had the Top 10 E3 games and gadgets at the show. The PS3 was the best from the show, followed by the Nintendo Revolution, and in third- the XBOX360. It seemed like many people were blown away by the PS3.

But even if the XBOX360 ends up being a fiasco, I think it has one distinct advantage over the PS3- the reliance and implementation of XBOX Live. Then imagine that T-shirt making and buying deal. Imagine a Forza-head copying a picture of the Gran Turismo 4 logo and then writing in big letters "4za 4 Life" or something... then sell it to others. Microsoft seems to be trying to make a lifestyle with the XBOX, expanding its game playing capabilities into other electronics, and all that. You know, I'm actually giving the XBOX360 a chance, not going to go hating.

 

[LaBounti]

Well, PS2 is about 10 times more powerful than PSOne. It was said that PS3 will be 35 more powerful than PS2 though, but I don´t think so.

I think it maybe closer to 25 than 35,. PS3's total power isnt for gaming and most wont be used for a while. PS2's power was all for games

 

[Anakin]

i am not going to buy one on which has the "most power" but on which has the better games, both will have good games, xbox with pgr3 ps3 with vgt, i dont think it matters about how powerful a console is, i mean, heck, i still play psone from time to time and enjoy it, surely you lot dont buy your consoles on how much power they have, thats like a woman saying size matters!

 

[a6m5]

i am not going to buy one on which has the "most power" but on which has the better games, both will have good games, xbox with pgr3 ps3 with vgt, i dont think it matters about how powerful a console is, i mean, heck, i still play psone from time to time and enjoy it, surely you lot dont buy your consoles on how much power they have, thats like a woman saying size matters!

I agree, but that last part isn't helping you make your point.

 

[GuyNamedJohn]

Hehe, yeah the ugly truth is that size doesn't hurt.

And I don't agree with the overall point myself.

"heck, i still play psone from time to time and enjoy it, surely you lot dont buy your consoles on how much power they have"

I think power does matter. The numbers do matter. Except for online, gameplay is pretty much unchanged from the days of PSOne. It's the wow factor we all seek.


And what is this "vgt"?

 

[Dave A]

Size can hurt, oh yes.

ower matters but at the end fo the day it's how enjoyable the games you're playing are that's most important. Making the games look better are key to getting people to buy the console in the first place though.