Purists racing in cockpit view vs exterior views

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1,719
Finland
Finland
HI-tauer
A video game does not transmit feel or inertia to the human vestibular system so the next closest thing is visually identifying what your car is doing.

I think this exactly should be the main task for FFB. Not to mimic just the steering information, but to substitute for the "butt sense". Give information of weight transfer and steering angle vs inertia. Many games including GTS fail miserably.

This "good ass" i think i one of the secrets of all the flying finns in motorsports. Driving cars or bikes or even walking on slippery ice/gravel teaches you inertia and momentum. Being proactive.. Like steering a boat.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
You driving time alone (without menu time etc.) equals 2.94 hours per day of game access.

No it’s not. What’s 63 divided by 55. It averages to 1hr per day not 2.94. And if you understand statistics you know you have to remove my highest/lowest play times which skew the results.

My average tends to be around 3hrs a week. Some weeks I’m not busy and I might put in 6-7. That’s a heavy week for me and not normal.

I’m also basing this off my GT6 use, lol if we had data from that I would go months without playing so my average would probably be under 1hr per week lol.

I think this exactly should be the main task for FFB. Not to mimic just the steering information, but to substitute for the "butt sense". Give information of weight transfer and steering angle vs inertia. Many games including GTS fail miserably.

Yeah GTS FFB leaves a lot to be desired. I do notice I lose the “butt sense” in bumper view compared to cockpit.
 
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3,954
Philippines
Laguna
Alpha_Cipher1
Doing a single hot lap in chase is one thing. But consistently lap after lap in a close race, I doubt it. I’m sure there’s an anomaly who can do it, but I’d like to see a full race video of some of you guys using chase cam to compare how close/clean you can be.
I asked, and I'll ask again. Do you want to try this with me? You never replied directly, but this statement may imply that you're referring to me :)

Or am I the anomaly that you stated?
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
The point was that I tend to race very close on guys bumpers without making any contact at all, and I don’t believe chase cam gives you the ability to consistently race this close. A few have even chimed in acknowledging that this is a issue they have.

Driving close to people isn't about the camera, it's about overall awareness. You're just matching your speed based against on the fly brain estimates of your opponents exit speed relative to yours. If you're pacing faster and your opponent scrubs some speed on the exit, then you know to you're traveling faster so lift off early into the next turn.. result, non ramming your opponent while tailgating through the chicane.

I'm a B/S driver. I'm never fast enough to pole, so I'm always deep in the pack and I've stayed consistently at S. I can barely remember the last time I rear ended someone. It is immensely easy to tell where my front end is and it's distance from the leading car because I can literally see the gap and I'm aware of our relative speeds compared to one another.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Btw my last 3 races (Tsukuba BMW E30 M3) were against A/S and I won by 5-10 seconds each race with no aids other than ABS set to standard.

This is where I find the advantage of bumper/cockpit vs chase, consistency. Heck at Interlagos with the RSR and BOP/RH I was lapping between 1:32.1-.3 for over 8 consecutive laps. It’s slightly slower than my best lap, and I know there’s more time to be had, just haven’t had time to devote to it.

This is also why I’ve never chased after the top ten times, I get close and then I focus on consistency which is far more important, especially in races with tire wear.

I asked, and I'll ask again. Do you want to try this with me? You never replied directly, but this statement may imply that you're referring to me :)

Or am I the anomaly that you stated?

You might have missed my reply, but this one wasn’t aimed directly at you alone. My other comment said I’m currently on set and can’t watch the video yet, I wanted to wait till I’ve watched it before responding.

But actually, like I said a single hot lap doesn’t disprove my point. I’m talking about consistently racing right up on guys bumpers. Solo hot laps don’t tell us much. But yes you very well could be an anomaly haha, just haven’t been able to view a video yet.

Driving close to people isn't about the camera, it's about overall awareness. You're just matching your speed based against on the fly brain estimates of your opponents exit speed relative to yours. If you're pacing faster and your opponent scrubs some speed on the exit, then you know to you're traveling faster so lift off early into the next turn.. result, non ramming your opponent while tailgating through the chicane.

You can’t say camera doesn’t play a factor in overall awareness though. You are losing valuable information regarding the front of the car.

For the same reason I can’t claim that chase cam isn’t superior for seeing the rear 1/4 of the car. I cannot deny that easily proven fact, just like you guys can not deny that bumper/cockpit give a better view of the front end which gives your brain better intel to work from.

You might be able to follow what you consider to be close, but I have a feeling I’m getting closer, and it’s easier for me, there’s less “guesswork” that your brain is having to estimate with chase cam.
 
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496
Germany
Germany
No it’s not. What’s 63 divided by 55. It averages to 1hr per day not 2.94. And if you understand statistics you know you have to remove my highest/lowest play times which skew the results.

My average tends to be around 3hrs a week. Some weeks I’m not busy and I might put in 6-7. That’s a heavy week for me and not normal.
My statement is not wrong. Maybe what you read into it is wrong. Is 55 days the time since you bought the game?

Also what you say about statistics is wrong. You don't remove values from an average. An average is a very simple calculation. Therefore it is very often of little use in statistics. You could say that most weeks you play 1-3 hours and it suddenly might be correct.
 
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680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
My statement is not wrong. Maybe what you read into it is wrong. Is 55 days the time since you bought the game?

Actually it is wrong. 55 is my total hours played. I’ve had the game for 9 weeks which is 63 days (give or take a day). What’s 63 divided by 5.........

And as I’ve already repeatedly said. With statistics you have to remove the highest/lowest data points as they skew the results, even worse with a small data set.

With 3hrs per day that would equate to
189hrs of playtime. I’m at 55. Your math is wrong.
 
496
Germany
Germany
Actually it is wrong. 55 is my total hours played. I’ve had the game for 9 weeks which is 63 days (give or take a day). What’s 63 divided by 5.........

And as I’ve already repeatedly said. With statistics you have to remove the highest/lowest data points as they skew the results, even worse with a small data set.

With 3hrs per day that would equate to
189hrs of playtime. I’m at 55. Your math is wrong.
I divided by 19 as 19 is your "Distinct Days Game Access" and that is written in my statement. This is getting bananas...
And as I’ve already repeatedly said. With statistics you have to remove the highest/lowest data points as they skew the results, even worse with a small data set.
Again, true, but then don't use the word "average". Simple as that.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
I divided by 19 as 19 is your "Distinct Days Game Access" and that is written in my statement. This is getting bananas...

Again, true, but then don't use the word "average". Simple as that.

True but most wont understand what “trimmed mean” is. Which is why I clarified multiple times.

Ummmm what’s bananas is you did the wrong math.

We were discussing average play per week. That requires you use every day of ownership. You can’t divide by only the days played and then say “you play on average 3hrs per day”.

You could say “each time you play you average 3hrs”. That would be accurate. But that’s not what we were discussing. So yes you were wrong.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL

Lol typo, 63/55 not 63/5

And it’s 12.6 not 20.

I’ve also let my son play for a few hours in sport mode. So not all of the hours are mine. Thankfully I restrict his crashing to sport time trial, he’s 3 lol.


And here are pics of the dead foam for my brakes, and my fanatec wheel torn down to fix the actuator for my up shift paddle (it would randomly switch gears, primarily with any counter steer). In case anyone wants to call BS. So yeah. Driving handicapped with a brake pedal that was on/off and a busted upshift.
 

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396
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
inree
Lol typo, 63/55 not 63/5

And it’s 12.6 not 20.

I’ve also let my son play for a few hours in sport mode. So not all of the hours are mine. Thankfully I restrict his crashing to sport time trial, he’s 3 lol.


And here are pics of the dead foam for my brakes, and my fanatec wheel torn down to fix the actuator for my up shift paddle (it would randomly switch gears, primarily with any counter steer). In case anyone wants to call BS. So yeah. Driving handicapped with a brake pedal that was on/off and a busted upshift.

I just guessed cos the numbers looked really big. I can't count past 15. anyway none of this really matters, if i had to guess i'd say people are probably just arguing with you because they feel insulted by the way you were talking to them. for what it's worth i'm 100% certain I could drive quickly with chase cam in both hot lapping and races if i took a small amount of time to adjust to it but the bumper camera is what i'm used to
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
I just guessed cos the numbers looked really big. I can't count past 15. anyway none of this really matters, if i had to guess i'd say people are probably just arguing with you because they feel insulted by the way you were talking to them. for what it's worth i'm 100% certain I could drive quickly with chase cam in both hot lapping and races if i took a small amount of time to adjust to it but the bumper camera is what i'm used to

Eh people get insulted too easy these days, they also fail at reading many times lol.

I think I could drive decent in chase cam, and be clean, but I know I would be keeping a larger distance to compensate. Plus it’s not realistic so I don’t bother.

None of them have bothered to post their total hours either. I have a feeling they would dwarf my play time lol. You can even just look at how sporadic my daily races are. I’ll do 1-2 days in a row and then nothing for a week or two. Life of a freelancer.

I think the benefit of chase cam, which is the ability to see the rear 1/2 of the car, becomes less important when you are racing with good drivers who understand proper race etiquette. These guys are not diving in and at your rear bumper trying to pass on corner entry, that would be stupid and result in a crash in real racing. With these guys, seeing the front half is more important to me.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
You can’t say camera doesn’t play a factor in overall awareness though. You are losing valuable information regarding the front of the car.

For the same reason I can’t claim that chase cam isn’t superior for seeing the rear 1/4 of the car. I cannot deny that easily proven fact, just like you guys can not deny that bumper/cockpit give a better view of the front end which gives your brain better intel to work from.

You might be able to follow what you consider to be close, but I have a feeling I’m getting closer, and it’s easier for me, there’s less “guesswork” that your brain is having to estimate with chase cam.

The camera does play into awareness but but I'm talking about being actively aware which is more about race craft than UI.

Again, you can't see the front bumper from the cockpit view and I don't know why you keep saying otherwise. I'm looking at it and I literally see two hands, a wheel, the car's dashboard, and the rise of the bonnet. No bumper in sight.

Ironically, the only time I can literally see the car's front bumper (excluding rear view) is when I'm turning while in chase cam. Then I can begin to see the profile of the front bumper which makes spacing during a turn far easier. No guess work needed, other than the normal speed estimates to stay close.
 
496
Germany
Germany
Ummmm what’s bananas is you did the wrong math.

We were discussing average play per week. That requires you use every day of ownership. You can’t divide by only the days played and then say “you play on average 3hrs per day”.

You could say “each time you play you average 3hrs”. That would be accurate. But that’s not what we were discussing. So yes you were wrong.
So, you put stuff into my statement that is not there and claim that my statement is wrong because the stuff you falsly read into it is wrong?
they also fail at reading many times lol.
Yes, oh yes, they do. Lol.
Here's hoping some mod will erase all this OT BS.
Not wasting any more time on that. First to make my ignore list, congrats.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
The camera does play into awareness but but I'm talking about being actively aware which is more about race craft than UI.

Again, you can't see the front bumper from the cockpit view and I don't know why you keep saying otherwise. I'm looking at it and I literally see two hands, a wheel, the car's dashboard, and the rise of the bonnet. No bumper in sight.

Ironically, the only time I can literally see the car's front bumper (excluding rear view) is when I'm turning while in chase cam. Then I can begin to see the profile of the front bumper which makes spacing during a turn far easier. No guess work needed, other than the normal speed estimates to stay close.

Actively aware isn’t what we are discussing though. We are talking about the visual information differences between cockpit/bumper/chase. Situational awareness is a different conversation.

Now we are getting into semantics. I’m saying I can see the front of the car where the hood ends. I may have used the word bumper by mistake but I usually say “front”. It’s alsi not a imaginary front end like bumper which can be tricky to gauge. With cockpit I have a visual reference.

Your spacing during a turn is inferior. Sorry but it’s true. You guys might as well be racing RC cars IMO.


So, you put stuff into my statement that is not there and claim that my statement is wrong because the stuff you falsly read into it is wrong?

Yes, oh yes, they do. Lol.
Here's hoping some mod will erase all this OT BS.
Not wasting any more time on that. First to make my ignore list, congrats.

Where did I put stuff into you’re statement. You can’t admit you did the wrong math. Grow up and own your mistake. You claimed I play on average 3hrs per day. I’ve proven you wrong on this claim.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
I’m saying I can see the front of the car where the hood ends. I may have used the word bumper by mistake but I usually say “front”. It’s alsi not a imaginary front end like bumper which can be tricky to gauge. With cockpit I have a visual reference.

Your spacing during a turn is inferior. Sorry but it’s true. You guys might as well be racing RC cars IMO.

I can literally see the actual bumper during a turn, you cannot. How is my viewpoint inferior?

Regardless of your opinion we're racing video game cars in a video game.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
I can literally see the actual bumper during a turn, you cannot. How is my viewpoint inferior?

Regardless of your opinion we're racing video game cars in a video game.

Because at best you are seeing only a tiny sliver of the corner of the car. It’s extremely limited, so we race real cars looking at the side of a car? No. There’s also very little depth perception at an angle like that.

What’s funny is I’ll acknowledge the weaknesses of cockpit or bumper, but you guys are steadfast in your ability to bury your heads in the sand and won’t acknowledge that chase cam is limited on the view of the front.
 
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905
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Out of interest does anybody know of any drivers that regularly are in the top 10 that use cockpit view? Just interested really?

I watch a few drivers on YouTube, especially top drivers and not seen one use it, chase cam, bumper and bonnet views yes, but not seen any cockpit users. You can’t tell what view is used on top 10 replays so as I said just genuinely interested if there are some? Links would be good if someone has them.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Out of interest does anybody know of any drivers that regularly are in the top 10 that use cockpit view? Just interested really?

I watch a few drivers on YouTube, especially top drivers and not seen one use it, chase cam, bumper and bonnet views yes, but not seen any cockpit users. You can’t tell what view is used on top 10 replays so as I said just genuinely interested if there are some? Links would be good if someone has them.

I’ve seen a few who post videos that use cockpit. But the majority I’ve seen run bumper.
 
1,294
United States
Kansas City/MO/US
Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
Because at best you are seeing only a tiny sliver of the corner of the car. It’s extremely limited, so we race real cars looking at the side of a car? No. There’s also very little depth perception at an angle like that.

We're not racing real cars at all, hence why we have a chase cam in the first place. Again, I don't see how the view is limited when you literally see more than you do from the cockpit. You still haven't explained this. I get that you know where your front end is because you're acclimated to the cockpit view. I'm acclimated to the chase cam as well and I race close and don't hit people.

What’s funny is I’ll acknowledge the weaknesses of cockpit or bumper, but you guys are steadfast in your ability to bury your heads in the sand and won’t acknowledge that chase cam is limited on the view of the front.

At least you conceded to the weaknesses of the cockpit view, ironically though it's weak in the ways that the chase cam is strong. Neither view can clearly see the front bumper as they're both abstractions that you have to acclimate to, the advantage of the chase cam being that I can navigate a pack of cars cleaner and better because the cars don't obstruct my view or my track awareness.

The bumper camera would be the ideal viewpoint if the collision of the bumper wasn't ahead of the camera but what can you do?

As for top times, I'd imagine that anybody putting crazy enough time into this game has some aspirations of competitive racing at tournaments and/or real life. For those people, driving in chase cam is a waste of time since it lacks the immersion of a real racing perspective. For that reason, that's probably why you don't see many top times using a chase cam.
 
13,878
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
I think the benefit of chase cam, which is the ability to see the rear 1/2 of the car, becomes less important when you are racing with good drivers who understand proper race etiquette. These guys are not diving in and at your rear bumper trying to pass on corner entry, that would be stupid and result in a crash in real racing. With these guys, seeing the front half is more important to me.
With this point, the very same can be applied to pretty much every view available. If you're racing with a bunch of people with proper etiquette and know how, than you'd be able to have much cleaner, closer races regardless of view, in my opinion.

I'm sure that the people that use the chasecam religiously are going to be aware of how close or how far they are to the car in front. I can understand your point if you're talking about someone brand new to the game, that has never tried either view in their life, but with people who play the game regularly with a certain view, they begin to learn the in's and outs of that view - what they can and can't do, and where to pay attention to. With that in mind, and if we're talking about experienced racers that use this view, then I'm willing to bet they can be just as clean, just as close, and just as fast as the next.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
We're not racing real cars at all, hence why we have a chase cam in the first place. Again, I don't see how the view is limited when you literally see more than you do from the cockpit. You still haven't explained this. I get that you know where your front end is because you're acclimated to the cockpit view. I'm acclimated to the chase cam as well and I race close and don't hit people.

Because you don’t see more of the front. Go look at replays side by side. Both bumper/cockpit have a much bigger view of the distance between your car and the next. This isn’t disputable it’s literally proven by any photo/video you look at.

It’s like trying to park you car as close as possible to a car in front of you. You will get much closer being in the car vs ten feet in the air and 20ft behind the car where you can only see the roof of the car. You can’t even see the hood apart from mid corner. It’s a joke.



At least you conceded to the weaknesses of the cockpit view, ironically though it's weak in the ways that the chase cam is strong. Neither view can clearly see the front bumper as they're both abstractions that you have to acclimate to, the advantage of the chase cam being that I can navigate a pack of cars cleaner and better because the cars don't obstruct my view or my track awareness.

Becahse it’s verifiable. Chase cam can see the back of the car better. This is a fact just as bumper/cockpit can see the rear bumper of the car in front MUCH better than chase cam. This is verified by both photo and video.

The bumper camera would be the ideal viewpoint if the collision of the bumper wasn't ahead of the camera but what can you do?

I agree with this. The collision should be when their rear bumper is all you can see lol. It’s a small trade off to be able to see their car better.

As for top times, I'd imagine that anybody putting crazy enough time into this game has some aspirations of competitive racing at tournaments and/or real life. For those people, driving in chase cam is a waste of time since it lacks the immersion of a real racing perspective. For that reason, that's probably why you don't see many top times using a chase cam.

This is probably true. Except for the idiots going off track to shave time lol.

With this point, the very same can be applied to pretty much every view available. If you're racing with a bunch of people with proper etiquette and know how, than you'd be able to have much cleaner, closer races regardless of view, in my opinion.

I'm sure that the people that use the chasecam religiously are going to be aware of how close or how far they are to the car in front. I can understand your point if you're talking about someone brand new to the game, that has never tried either view in their life, but with people who play the game regularly with a certain view, they begin to learn the in's and outs of that view - what they can and can't do, and where to pay attention to. With that in mind, and if we're talking about experienced racers that use this view, then I'm willing to bet they can be just as clean, just as close, and just as fast as the next.

Yes but my point was, the biggest advantage of chase cam is minimized in a good group. Its a bigger advantage in a room full of idiots.

They might adapt and acclimate. But they are still working with limited visual information. That’s my point, there is less visual information regarding distance with chase cam. That is verified by photos/video, just like the advantage of chase cam is easily verified by photo/video. Problem is most of these guys are unwilling to concede anything at all. I’m literally the only one to concede anything lol. They want to live in make believe land and believe that chase came is superior in every way possible.

Problem is, if that were true we’d see chase cam guys winning GT Academy. But they don’t.
 
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This whole argument of "You're driving with assists! You're playing it like an arcade! Therefore, you're terrible at this game and you'll only bother those who play for real!", is one of the main reasons why I don't care, in the slightest, about online play. The AI doesn't complain about which view I use when I race it, or criticize me for preferring an easier experience. I know most of the community isn't like this, but it's unfortunately the bad apples who speak louder, that ruin the fun. End of rant.
 
13,878
United States
Los Angeles, CA
lImaRobotl
Because you don’t see more of the front. Go look at replays side by side. Both bumper/cockpit have a much bigger view of the distance between your car and the next. This isn’t disputable it’s literally proven by any photo/video you look at.
And on that same note, cockpit/bumper cam leaves you almost oblivious to your surroundings as well. So how is it actually worse? Sure, if you're only looking ahead I suppose that's all that matters, right? However, you're portraying the idea of clean, fast, racers that are more than able to conduct themselves correctly when on the track. I think that should be taken into consideration.

What you're ignoring is the fact that these people that use chase cam are probably used to how close they can get to someone by now, and can race cleanly and extremely close as well. Much in the same way that I know exactly where the limit of the track is, allowing me to ride as close to the curbs as possible, while I use interior view, even if I can't see it completely while going around the apex.

Yes but my point was, the biggest advantage of chase cam is minimized in a good group. Its a bigger advantage in a room full of idiots.
Then the big advantage of a interior cam is also minimized as well. If I know the guy in front of me is well aware of the track and its braking points, then I have much more confidence practically driving on his bumper. If I used that view religiously, I likely know how close is too close and how far is too far. It's not a magic assumption, its accumulated experience, just like you have with interior view.

They might adapt and acclimate. But they are still working with limited visual information. That’s my point, there is less visual information regarding distance with chase cam.
Sure, if you're only looking one direction while racing. However, if youre actually in one of those good races you're talking about, theres likely more you need to take into consideration with your surroundings.

That
in itself is also less visual information. So in that case, what do you do to make up for that disadvantage? You practice enough to make it habit, and learn the ins and outs, just like you and I probably have with interior views. You get good at the method you set yourself up for. So if you're going to keep bringing up good racers, than that should be an easy thing to accept in this case, I think.

That is verified by photos/video, just like the advantage of chase cam is easily verified by photo/video.
The only thing verifiable is that it's a different perspective, not that the people in the view can't race any closer because you don't think they can. You learn and adapt to overcome the difficulties ahead of you, and that can be done with any view.

Problem is most of these guys are unwilling to concede anything at all.
To be honest, this is nothing but ironic from what I'm seeing. Top 10, I'm not sure, but of my friend's list the people that are faster are the ones that are actually using the chasecam. They are definitely far from slow, as well.

They want to live in make believe land and believe that chase came is superior in every way possible.
Thats the problem here. You don't get to make that subjective choice for everyone on what is easier, better, superior, inferior for anyone but yourself.

Problem is, if that were true we’d see chase cam guys winning GT Academy. But they don’t.
So it only counts if its in GT academy? You mean how many of those people would exploit track boundaries and the game itself and things like that in order to produce the fastest time they possible can? Yeah, I'm not sure I'd use that as a gauge at all.

Question, how much data have you looked into that makes you think that this opinion is irrefutable?
 
409
United States
United States
andrewhake
I race only in cockpit view and win Sport Mode races all the time. I could care less what view people use.
 
786
United States
United States
Let's be frank here...

If you are a 'purist', you aren't playing GTS. You are playing iRacing, or rFactor, or maybe PC2.

If you are a 'purist' you aren't playing in any view other than an Oculus etc..

Anything else is simply one form of terrible compromise over another. Terrible restrictions in FoV compared to real life. Terrible compromises in tire model and physics. Terrible compromises in application of real racing rules and behaviors. Terrible sounds. Terrible collision physics. Terrible off track physics.

So, please... enough with the 'purist' baloney. I'll tell you what really drives the 'I'm a purist, and I think that everyone should use my personal favorite view/aids/tires/cars and all others should be banned!' hogwash. It's usually 'I'm getting beat, and I hate the thought that anyone is doing it different to how I'm doing it because that obviously means their difference to me is what is making them faster..!'

There are bad drivers out there in ALL view modes.

You want 'purity' in a view in GTS? Get a PSVR and be prepared to be unable to race anything but your ghost. Because that is the only view that actually is pure.

I wonder what all these 'purists' that want to wall themselves off from us 'impure' types are going to use as an excuse once everyone is on a VR rig in a few years? Better start coming up with something, because you are still going to get beat, some of the time..!
 
3,954
Philippines
Laguna
Alpha_Cipher1
Let's be frank here...

If you are a 'purist', you aren't playing GTS. You are playing iRacing, or rFactor, or maybe PC2.

If you are a 'purist' you aren't playing in any view other than an Oculus etc..

Anything else is simply one form of terrible compromise over another. Terrible restrictions in FoV compared to real life. Terrible compromises in tire model and physics. Terrible compromises in application of real racing rules and behaviors. Terrible sounds. Terrible collision physics. Terrible off track physics.

So, please... enough with the 'purist' baloney. I'll tell you what really drives the 'I'm a purist, and I think that everyone should use my personal favorite view/aids/tires/cars and all others should be banned!' hogwash. It's usually 'I'm getting beat, and I hate the thought that anyone is doing it different to how I'm doing it because that obviously means their difference to me is what is making them faster..!'

There are bad drivers out there in ALL view modes.

You want 'purity' in a view in GTS? Get a PSVR and be prepared to be unable to race anything but your ghost. Because that is the only view that actually is pure.

I wonder what all these 'purists' that want to wall themselves off from us 'impure' types are going to use as an excuse once everyone is on a VR rig in a few years? Better start coming up with something, because you are still going to get beat, some of the time..!
I actually agree with you for once