Purists racing in cockpit view vs exterior views

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1,294
United States
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Xamot
BallPtPenTheif
Not enough to see the bumper even remotely close to the vision provided both cockpit and bumper cam.

To be able to see a comparable view you would need to have a drastic angle which would then limit your view of the distance. Sorry there’s no world where the chase cam offers a better front view.

But you can't see the bumper from the cockpit. I can see the top of the front bumper from the high chase cam but I can't see any bumper from the cockpit, so I'm not sure what you're talking about here. As for the bumper cam, the camera is behind the bumper and the bumper is invisible, not to mention the hit box is ahead of the camera, so I don't see the value of bumper orientation there either.

The high chase cam angle isn't drastic enough that I can't see the distance either so again, I don't know what you're referring to. I can see a complete orientation of my car as well as the oncoming apex, pragmatically it's one of the best functional views.

I love the claustrophobic sense of of speed that the cockpit gives you, but pragmatically speaking, claustrophobia isn't a good thing.

Again, I wish the right stick could fluidly control my head while in cockpit view. I know that's asking a lot of many players to drive, change gears, and puppet the driver's head but I'm already used to viewing with the right stick from GTA and I can angle the camera towards the apex without even thinking about it. It would be cool if I could do that in GT also.
 
496
Germany
Germany
Which is why I use it. I’ve had 10+ races with zero incidents(in a row).
My laps are usually within 2 tenths of my fastest lap which is usually within a second of the top time
Your consecutive clean race record stands at "4".
My SR has been S since the start and never dropped.
It stayed at "S", but it did drop in fact. Also keep in mind that the system is getting a lot more strict for A and S rated drivers.
Did you miss the part where I almost never play? I get in maybe 1-3hrs per week. Not exactly great for points and doesn’t actually help your argument but nice red herring.
You driving time alone (without menu time etc.) equals 2.94 hours per day of game access.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Another lie.

56 hours total driving time is a bit more than 1-3 hours per week...

Not a lie actually. You see with statistics, you need to remove the highest and lowest data points. Yes I’ve had 3-4 nights where I’ve put in 4-5hrs. But those are rare. And even without accounting for removing highest/lowest I’m averaging 5hrs a week with some weeks being less.

So wow I might be off by an hour. Lol statistics continue to befuddle you.
 
2,632
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Deadpool:
Which is why I use it. I’ve had 10+ races with zero incidents(in a row).


Your consecutive clean race record stands at "4".



-------------


:lol: beauty! I didn't see he added (in a row) :lol:
 

SlipZtrEm

GTP Admin
Staff Emeritus
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SlipZtrEm
You still haven’t shown me a chase cam top time .....

https://www.gtplanet.net/andrew-waring-wins-8000-first-worldgaming-canadian-gt-sport-championship/

I watched @Raceboy77 clinch a podium position amongst the fastest people in the country via chase cam (and T-GT). He also regularly sets some of the fastest times over in Forza land.

The best camera choice in terms of results is whichever one you're most comfortable with. The most realistic? Probably cockpit cam, sure (with some slight changes IMO). But in a game with made-up tracks, made-up cars (including ones powered by LAZORS), and other concessions to realism, drawing the line at which view people use seems oddly arbitrary.

A lot of this discussion smacks of "I don't like people playing video games in a different way than I do". Elitism is the last thing the genre needs; we want more people playing these games, not less.

Personally, I switch around. It depends on the situation; if I'm running the full rig I might go cockpit. I might also use the roof cam (though it's very car-specific; give us a proper base-of-windshield view, PD!). Drift Mode, or maybe racing the AI with the DS4? It might stay roof, or it might switch out to chase cam to get a better idea of my surroundings and/or angle.

Again, I wish the right stick could fluidly control my head while in cockpit view. I know that's asking a lot of many players to drive, change gears, and puppet the driver's head but I'm already used to viewing with the right stick from GTA and I can angle the camera towards the apex without even thinking about it. It would be cool if I could do that in GT also.

So, like PCARS' look-to-apex feature? I found it very strange when I first tried it, but it feels great now. It simulates what I do on track in real life — but a decade-plus of sim racing had me used to the static framing of most games.

Would definitely welcome it in Sport. 👍
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
What would you say is "top" then? Top 10% in the world? 5%? 3%?

That’s a question with a different answer for different people. Let’s say top ten on the leaderboard. If chase game is an advantage we should see times on the board from chase cam users.

I found the same issue with allowing controller users to compete in the GT Academy. A few made it to the finals and were slaughtered the second they had to use a wheel.

If you can’t be fast with bumper/cockpit then you won’t be fast IRL imo. Might be an anomaly here or there.....but that’s why they are called anomalies.
 
2,632
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Not a lie actually. You see with statistics, you need to remove the highest and lowest data points. Yes I’ve had 3-4 nights where I’ve put in 4-5hrs. But those are rare. And even without accounting for removing highest/lowest I’m averaging 5hrs a week with some weeks being less.

So wow I might be off by an hour. Lol statistics continue to befuddle you.
In 8 weeks you have been actually driving for 56 hours in total (or 7 hours per week)... then add on tinkering/waiting/livery time... you play a LOT more than 1-3 hours per week
 
3,954
Philippines
Laguna
Alpha_Cipher1
That’s a question with a different answer for different people. Let’s say top ten on the leaderboard. If chase game is an advantage we should see times on the board from chase cam users.

I found the same issue with allowing controller users to compete in the GT Academy. A few made it to the finals and were slaughtered the second they had to use a wheel.

If you can’t be fast with bumper/cockpit then you won’t be fast IRL imo. Might be an anomaly here or there.....but that’s why they are called anomalies.
Why won't you look at my time and the thread Slip provided? Because you can't answer back? Is that it? Because our times refute your statements? Or is it because I used aids?

I'm in the process of making a time without aids, if you want it so badly :)
Here's my time with aids, btw <3
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Deadpool:
Which is why I use it. I’ve had 10+ races with zero incidents(in a row).


Your consecutive clean race record stands at "4".



-------------


:lol: beauty! I didn't see he added (in a row) :lol:

I wasn’t counting guys hitting me from behind or spinning in front. I was talking about my recollection of races where I was at fault. Because we all know the penalty system is faulty, so don’t try to pretend it isn’t.
 
1,460
Greece
Greece
Giorgos_Ferrari
Your consecutive clean race record stands at "4".

It stayed at "S", but it did drop in fact. Also keep in mind that the system is getting a lot more strict for A and S rated drivers.

You driving time alone (without menu time etc.) equals 2.94 hours per day of game access.
I don't want to defend deadpool but about that consecutive "Clean" races thing you see saying this means nothing because a "Clean" race According to the game is Make no error at all even a simple off due to the back end steping out etc. so its not accurate.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
In 8 weeks you have been actually driving for 56 hours in total (or 7 hours per week)... then add on tinkering/waiting/livery time... you play a LOT more than 1-3 hours per week

It’s actually 9 weeks....

And that’s 55hrs total. I do almost no tinkering. I hop into daily races for a few and call it a night. Try again.

How many hours are you at?

I don't want to defend deadpool but about that consecutive "Clean" races thing you see saying this means nothing because a "Clean" race According to the game is Make no error at all even a simple off due to the back end steping out etc. so its not accurate.

This. I don’t consider getting hit or barely cutting too much of a kerb when discussing if I was clean or not. Have I made contact worthy of a penalty? Sure, small tap on a rare occasion but otherwise I’m extremely clean. I even keep all 4 on the track unlike a lot of the top times.
 
2,632
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I don't want to defend deadpool but about that consecutive "Clean" races thing you see saying this means nothing because a "Clean" race According to the game is Make no error at all even a simple off due to the back end steping out etc. so its not accurate.

So it's anecdotal...
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
https://www.gtplanet.net/andrew-waring-wins-8000-first-worldgaming-canadian-gt-sport-championship/

I watched @Raceboy77 clinch a podium position amongst the fastest people in the country via chase cam (and T-GT). He also regularly sets some of the fastest times over in Forza land.

The best camera choice in terms of results is whichever one you're most comfortable with. The most realistic? Probably cockpit cam, sure (with some slight changes IMO). But in a game with made-up tracks, made-up cars (including ones powered by LAZORS), and other concessions to realism, drawing the line at which view people use seems oddly arbitrary.

A lot of this discussion smacks of "I don't like people playing video games in a different way than I do". Elitism is the last thing the genre needs; we want more people playing these games, not less.

Personally, I switch around. It depends on the situation; if I'm running the full rig I might go cockpit. I might also use the roof cam (though it's very car-specific; give us a proper base-of-windshield view, PD!). Drift Mode, or maybe racing the AI with the DS4? It might stay roof, or it might switch out to chase cam to get a better idea of my surroundings and/or angle.



So, like PCARS' look-to-apex feature? I found it very strange when I first tried it, but it feels great now. It simulates what I do on track in real life — but a decade-plus of sim racing had me used to the static framing of most games.

Would definitely welcome it in Sport. 👍

There’s always an anomaly. I’ve just yet to see a chase cam driver consistently race at the top and without minor tapping as well. I’ve found the bumper/cockpit drivers to be cleaner in general, not calling the others dirty, just that their view of the front is limited and it’s easier to misjudge the distance.

I had the same reaction to PCars apex feature. But like you, once I got used to it I loved it.
 
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680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Close then :)
I could see it was about mid February, but couldn't guess the exact week from the chart.

Doesn't really help you though does it...

Drops it from near 7 to about 6. But you still have to factor in removing the highest/lowest data points. I had a night where I did around 6hrs alone. Had a dead work week and put in a crazy couple days too. This skews the stats disproportionately especially when factoring in the tiny data set.

You still haven’t shared your total hours.

Also you’ve been pulling a red herring and deviating from the original point which was that my play time is pretty low relative to most IMO.
 
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496
Germany
Germany
@Deadpool : Don't get me wrong, you are clearly better than me, it took me more races to get to the same level than you.
But still, you are B/S and you don't put up top 10 times as you said before. Do you really think you can assess what the actual top drivers need and want and should do? Btw., you have limited playtime but you can assess what view is used by all/most top drivers and how clean they race? Is your playtime limited by extensive Twitch and YouTube time?

Keep in mind that it is a game and it doesn't matter whether the top guys are equally fast in a real racecar. The assault rifle comparison is exaggerated and only there to remind you of that.
 

SlipZtrEm

GTP Admin
Staff Emeritus
27,384
Canada
Toronto
NewAesthetic
SlipZtrEm
There’s always an anomaly. I’ve just yet to see a chase cam driver consistently race at the top and without minor tapping as well. I’ve found the bumper/cockpit drivers to be cleaner in general, not calling the others dirty, just that their view of the front is limited and it’s easier to misjudge the distance.

You're basing this sweeping generalization off of...?

If a limited frontal view is an issue, then cockpit cam surely isn't the answer.

Which is why GT Academy has put people in real racing.

Ah, so the marketing worked on you.

...

Also, please don't triple-post. That's what the Edit and +Quote buttons are for. 👍
 

Furinkazen

Madman
Premium
44,132
United Kingdom
Blackburn
Furi_54
Not a fan of cockpit view for online races as I prefer to have an even viewpoint around my car, wouldn't mind a "forced cockpit" view option though for all. For me it's hood cam, I can't use bumper cam as I prefer to actually see some of the car so I have an idea where it is on the track. If i'm in hood/roof cam, then I can see my front right clip a kerb and I have an idea of where rest of the car is. Will switch chase cam often though especially at race starts when it gets a bit tight and crowded just to check around.
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
@Deadpool : Don't get me wrong, you are clearly better than me, it took me more races to get to the same level than you.
But still, you are B/S and you don't put up top 10 times as you said before. Do you really think you can assess what the actual top drivers need and want and should do? Btw., you have limited playtime but you can assess what view is used by all/most top drivers and how clean they race? Is your playtime limited by extensive Twitch and YouTube time?

Keep in mind that it is a game and it doesn't matter whether the top guys are equally fast in a real racecar. The assault rifle comparison is exaggerated and only there to remind you of that.

I never claimed I put in top 10 times. I said I was within a second usually despite very little time spent.

Keep in mind up until the start of this month, I had a bad brake pedal, and my shifter was acting up. I have photos of me disassembling both my Clubsport pedals and my wheel to fix both issues.

So I got to B/S fairly quickly despite these issues and little time.

I’m basing my assessment on the past with GT6 where I spent a lot more time.

IMO everyone’s stats when we started in the lower classes are useless. Too many idiots screwing up all of our stats. Racing in those groups isn’t fun and I understand why so many guys stuck in those classes are venting on here about idiots. Because once you get into the better groups everything changes.

You're basing this sweeping generalization off of...?

If a limited frontal view is an issue, then cockpit cam surely isn't the answer.



Ah, so the marketing worked on you.

...

Also, please don't triple-post. That's what the Edit and +Quote buttons are for. 👍

Apologies, trying to post from my phone and had assumed there had been posts before I hit reply. Hate using my phone for posting hah.

Limited frontal view, bumper is best but you lose peripheral. Cockpit is a balance of peripheral and side. Now for people with tiny tv’s I could see cockpit being a big issue. For me it’s about realism.

Marketing didn’t have any effect on me. I’ve been around racing long enough to know the value of simulator training.
 
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496
Germany
Germany
I never claimed I put in top 10 times. I said I was within a second usually despite very little time spent.

Keep in mind up until the start of this month, I had a bad brake pedal, and my shifter was acting up. I have photos of me disassembling both my Clubsport pedals and my wheel to fix both issues.

So I got to B/S fairly quickly despite these issues and little time.

I’m basing my assessment on the past with GT6 where I spent a lot more time.

IMO everyone’s stats when we started in the lower classes are useless. Too many idiots screwing up all of our stats. Racing in those groups isn’t fun and I understand why so many guys stuck in those classes are venting on here about idiots. Because once you get into the better groups everything changes.
Yes, I said you don't claim to put up top 10 times. And you are clearly fast. However, I wouldn't put out my assumptions about the top drivers out here as facts as, quite simply, I am not one of them.
For example, the penalty system is getting very very strict in DR A and even more so in S (that is what drivers of this level say) and therefore it is quite meaningless what you say about the number of penalties you received.
 
1,719
Finland
Finland
HI-tauer
There’s always an anomaly. I’ve just yet to see a chase cam driver consistently race at the top and without minor tapping as well. I’ve found the bumper/cockpit drivers to be cleaner in general, not calling the others dirty, just that their view of the front is limited and it’s easier to misjudge the distance.

I had the same reaction to PCars apex feature. But like you, once I got used to it I loved it.

Im a cockpit driver my self - purely for immersion. Used to drive from hood cam before. I understand chase cam gives a slightly inferion view to judge distance to the car in front of you, but compare that to the handicap one has in cockpit not seeing a **** when it comes to cars on your side / rear corner, i believe bumber/cockpit is dirtier than chase cam. Guilty of that my self.. :embarrassed:
 
Personally I think chase cam is more realistic than cockpit or any other view for that matter.

In real life you feel inertia which is a huge factor in driving a race car.
Niki Lauda: “God gave me an okay mind, but a really good ass, which can feel everything in a car.”

A video game does not transmit feel or inertia to the human vestibular system so the next closest thing is visually identifying what your car is doing.

Having said all that, I use roof cam:lol:
 
680
United States
New York
GTP-DEADPOOL
Yes, I said you don't claim to put up top 10 times. And you are clearly fast. However, I wouldn't put out my assumptions about the top drivers out here as facts as, quite simply, I am not one of them.
For example, the penalty system is getting very very strict in DR A and even more so in S (that is what drivers of this level say) and therefore it is quite meaningless what you say about the number of penalties you received.

Oh I read it as if you were saying that I claimed to have run top 10 times.

Here’s part of what I’m alsp basing this on. Watching all the prior GT Academy races.....those guys were mainly using bumper/cockpit. And the guys who won were bumper/cockpit.

I wasn’t really talking about penalties though, but clean races separate from what most of us agree is a wonky penalty system that more often then not gives the innocent party a penalty. The point was that I tend to race very close on guys bumpers without making any contact at all, and I don’t believe chase cam gives you the ability to consistently race this close. A few have even chimed in acknowledging that this is a issue they have.

Doing a single hot lap in chase is one thing. But consistently lap after lap in a close race, I doubt it. I’m sure there’s an anomaly who can do it, but I’d like to see a full race video of some of you guys using chase cam to compare how close/clean you can be.