Put new valve covers on my El Camino!

  • Thread starter Thread starter 72ElCamino
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haha, yeah I don't have the slightest thought of trying to sell it as of now. Its just frustrating because it needs new piston rings. So every month or so i get to pull every spark plug and scrape off all the caked on oil. Ill keep you all posted on anything else that shows up on it. I have a feeling that there will be a dryspell for replacing more stuff.
 
Cutting your coils is ok as long as it isn't forcing too much work onto your dampers, though I'm not familiar with either of your cars and whether they have dampers or not... :lol:
 
Sorry guys, but cutting coils is a really bad idea. Springs are configured by their rate, which is the amount of deformation they allow/experience for a given load. The predicted load taken together with the spring rate will give you the spring size.

If you cut coils off, you are not changing the spring rate, but are changing the size. In other words, you're expecting less spring to deal with the same load. It doesn't work. If you're going to lower the car by shortening the spring, you need to increase the spring rate to compensate. A car with cut coils can't handle the predicted loads that it will exert on its springs.
 
GilesGuthrie
Sorry guys, but cutting coils is a really bad idea. Springs are configured by their rate, which is the amount of deformation they allow/experience for a given load. The predicted load taken together with the spring rate will give you the spring size.

If you cut coils off, you are not changing the spring rate, but are changing the size. In other words, you're expecting less spring to deal with the same load. It doesn't work. If you're going to lower the car by shortening the spring, you need to increase the spring rate to compensate. A car with cut coils can't handle the predicted loads that it will exert on its springs.
Click to expand...

Giles... You're absolutely right - But you're talking about Technology while this thread deals with stoneage deprived coaches (suspension wise).. And lowering of a vehicle this size with live rear axles and whatnots - designed to be as comfy as a boat, by cutting springs, WILL improve handling...

And I will (most likely) perform this kind of surgery on my 81 Commodore.. But mostly because springs the right size for this model is a common a arse flavored ice cream... And twice as expensive...

Btw.. I LOVE your cars... The El Camino is one awesome pickup we don't get to see many of here in DK, And Camaroboy - I've praised your primered Camaro more than enough before ;)
 
GilesGuthrie
Sorry guys, but cutting coils is a really bad idea. Springs are configured by their rate, which is the amount of deformation they allow/experience for a given load. The predicted load taken together with the spring rate will give you the spring size.

If you cut coils off, you are not changing the spring rate, but are changing the size. In other words, you're expecting less spring to deal with the same load. It doesn't work. If you're going to lower the car by shortening the spring, you need to increase the spring rate to compensate. A car with cut coils can't handle the predicted loads that it will exert on its springs.
Click to expand...
Its not a bad idea. Just ignore this reply. Period. Some of the top muscle cars in the world cut the coils. You obviously dont work on cars so your credibility is worthless. Those that have seen videos of my camaro in action, know it works perfectly. It works so well I can beat new Corvettes on a raceway.
 
Flerbizky
Giles... You're absolutely right - But you're talking about Technology while this thread deals with stoneage deprived coaches (suspension wise).. And lowering of a vehicle this size with live rear axles and whatnots - designed to be as comfy as a boat, by cutting springs, WILL improve handling...

And I will (most likely) perform this kind of surgery on my 81 Commodore.. But mostly because springs the right size for this model is a common a arse flavored ice cream... And twice as expensive...

Btw.. I LOVE your cars... The El Camino is one awesome pickup we don't get to see many of here in DK, And Camaroboy - I've praised your primered Camaro more than enough before ;)
Click to expand...
Correct answer. And thank you for the praise. :)
 
I know you guys probably arn't as pumped as I am. But this comming week, My dad and I are putting in a crate engine. Their is Jasper engine warehouse literally 2 miles up the road, and since we have the whole right side of the car taken apart, my dad said it was the perfect time. We are also going to go with a new aluminum intake manifold. I am like overly excited, the days of idling at 5 lbs of oil pressure are going to be over.. real soon :). Ill keep everyone updated with pictures and all. I just thought that I'd let you guys know.
 
Day One:




all the sheet metal is off, the block is drained of coolant. The alternator, front pulleys, and carb. are off. Tomorrow im planing to remove the distributor and coil. The headers will also come off tomorrow.
 
72ElCamino
I know you guys probably arn't as pumped as I am. But this comming week, My dad and I are putting in a crate engine. Their is Jasper engine warehouse literally 2 miles up the road, and since we have the whole right side of the car taken apart, my dad said it was the perfect time. We are also going to go with a new aluminum intake manifold. I am like overly excited, the days of idling at 5 lbs of oil pressure are going to be over.. real soon :). Ill keep everyone updated with pictures and all. I just thought that I'd let you guys know.
Click to expand...
That is VERY exciting!! You are getting a new crate engine! This will be an experience you will never forget. Congrats and keep us updated on the progress. :)
 
day two:

Took off power steering pump, drained the oil, took off the gas pump, took off the coil, the headers, and the distributor.. which was my greatest fear. I brought the engine to top dead center on the #1 cylinder. Then i marked a vertical black line on the rotor and the distributor itself. Then i pulled the distributor and watched which way the rotor turned, marking that position as well. Does that seem liek the correct way to pull a distributor? My grandfather told me, and it seemed liek a pretty practical way of doing it.
 
You lucky crate engine powered guy...

Congrats dude. 👍

You're going from one nice looking motor to an even nicer looking one.
 
woo! engine is pulled. Here are some pictures for today. It decided to leak transmission fluid all across the garage floor and also had some antifreeze in around it too. I am really pumped to put in this new engine :). I am waiting for the new engine to get shipped in, its going to be a 350 bored 30 over. We are also going to bolt on an edelbrock intake manifold, rather than installing the old one.





 
Congrats on the engine removal. Yes leaking tranny fluid and antifreeze are typical when pulling the engine.
Good call on the new edelbrock intake. While the engine is out you should paint your entire engine compartment. Even if you just spray it with spray cans it will be better than looking at a dirty or rusty engine compartment. Make sure to primer first otherwise the paint will just chip and flake off in about a year. You will thank me for sure once you get the engine in. With the engine out you can easily get to everything to clean it up. When the engine is it, its very hard to paint or clean anything up in there. Also if you have a few extra bucks you could get the polished aluminum intake to really make your engine look nice. Then some chrome valve covers.
I dont think the pics were linked correctly. I am not able to see larger images when I click on them.
 
alright, so the engine is in, it starts, and it runs but it is overheating for some odd reason. The timing is also jumping around which leads me to believe something is definatly wrong. The headers are also amazingly hot. So hot it seems the ceramic coating is comming off. This has never happened before. Does anyone know any causes for a fluctuation in timing? This is really upsetting the a brand new engine water pump radiator heater core, and intake is still causing us trouble. So if anyone has clues to what is going on with the timing or overheating please let me know. the help would be great!

Thanks

Matt
 
72ElCamino
alright, so the engine is in, it starts, and it runs but it is overheating for some odd reason. The timing is also jumping around which leads me to believe something is definatly wrong. The headers are also amazingly hot. So hot it seems the ceramic coating is comming off. This has never happened before. Does anyone know any causes for a fluctuation in timing? This is really upsetting the a brand new engine water pump radiator heater core, and intake is still causing us trouble. So if anyone has clues to what is going on with the timing or overheating please let me know. the help would be great!

Thanks

Matt
Click to expand...

There are a couple problems that could be happening. My first and most important question is "How did you fill the engine block with antifreeze before you started it?" The proper way is to remove the thermostat and fill the engine from the top of the block then put the thermostat back in. NEVER fill a brand new engine just from the radiator only. Many people make this common fatal error. This creats many air pockets in the engine which will cause it to severly overheat almost instantly and could even score the cylinders. Also did you break in the new cam?? There is a cam break in procedure for every new engine. Hopefullly you did this. Your ceramic coated headers are probably junk if you used them to break in the cam. You never want to break a new cam in with a good set of headers bolted to the car. It is very common for them to glow red hot during a cam break in procedure. If there is any miss in the engine at all the timing will jump. Make sure every wire and spark plug are functioning properly. When you say its fluctuating do you mean at idle or while you rev it? What temperature is the engine running. I hope you have a temp gauge hooked up. Even a cheap one is only about $15.00. Any gauge is better than no gauge at all.
"Cam break in" and "Engine break in" procedures are 2 different procedures with a new engine.
 
we actually did not do this. My dad was told that we shouldnt fill the antifreeze that way so we filled it through just the radiator. The water seems to be flowing fine though. We ran it, shut it off, and refilled the radiator untill it leveled out above the intake manifold. I know we did not leave the engine on long enough to cause any damage, as we do have a tempeture gauge inside the car. the highest we would let it get was 220 before we shut it down. We are leading to believe that it is somthing other than the cooling system. Every piece is brand new on that engine including a water pump and heater core and radiator. We know there is water circulating through the engine because the top hose from the manifold to the radiator is hot. And we also removed the thermostat. The engine will sound beautiful, not even a shake in the engine untill around 180ish then it seems like it begins to miss or sputter a bit and this is where we see our timing change. It seems as if it should jump out at us if the engine was getting this hot this fast. We dont think it is a manifold leak, but if it could be, how could you tell? So the only other thing i could think of would be the distrubuter could i have put that in wrong if it fires and runs perfect. could the air fuel mixture be off? it is a higher rise intake. or maybe a vacuum leak? How could I check these things? know anything else that it could be?
 
Filling it thru the thermostat housing is the correct way to do it. But if you didnt then its too late to even think about now.
You also didnt mention if you broke the cam in or not.
If you have a bone stock 2 core radiator then there is no way it will keep your new engine cool enough. Ask your dad what radiator you have or look into the radiator cap. You will see 2, 3, or 4 rows. Also is your fan shroud on? What fan do you have? Steel blade? clutch fan? fiberglass?
Bottom line. If your engine is overheating when you sit then more than likely its 1 of 2 things for sure. Or even the combination of both.
1. Your fan simply isnt good enough to keep the radiator cool.
2. Radiator isnt good enough
 
Isn't there usually a coolant bleed screw where you let the little air bubbles out of system? Or is that just on more modern engines?
 
hmm.. so you dont think that a vacuum leak or manifold leak would make a big difference like that? You definatly think it is the cooling system somewhere? The radiator is a stock radiator for that model car, but it isnt a high performance engine. I know we have an edelbrock intake and headers and what not but it has a stock cam and everthing else on it. It did not say anwhere where to break in the cam when the engine came. I know the engine was hot fired before we got it for about 10 minutes, so could they already have broken it in? It is a metal clutch fan, and the radiator is brand new, so I am still at a loss as why it is not cooling it properly. It doesnt even have a thermostat in it and it gets over 200 degrees, that aint right. So, i guess my real question is, you dont think it is anything in the ignition system causing this to happen? could a manifold leak cause these high temps? maybe a vacuum leak?... I find it hard to believe that a brand new engine will overheat

pictures of the engine on the stand :) :



 
Break in usually involes running for some time (1/2 hour?) at 2000 rpm or so to make sure the lifters get oil and seat...you're not supposed to idle an engine on break-in.

EDIT: You are also supposed to vary (cycle) the rpm's a bit, I'm not sure why, though
 
hmm well i really wish we coudl run it for a half hour or so but the thing will get way to hot if we let it run that long.. so right now its parked untill someone can give us a specific, "hey i know what you did you need to ____" but yes your supposed to run it at like 2000 and vary it some to clear away some of the depris from breaking in the cam... atleast thats what ive been told..


Edit: i still dont understand how the radiator would not be sufficient when it was the same one used on a stock el camino. It is not like the engine is that high performance or anything. Also, the fan is the same one used on stock el caminos so i dont see how that could be causing a problem either.
 

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