R.I.P. Lik-Sang !!! Sony warns against grey importing (PS3)

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Thank you very much Sony :rolleyes: 👍
I actually think about buying a new Sony TV for about 2500 $... Seems like I just can't boycott them... Nah Sony, I'll get my Japanese PS3, no matter how much you try...
 
Thank you very much Sony :rolleyes: 👍
I actually think about buying a new Sony TV for about 2500 $... Seems like I just can't boycott them... Nah Sony, I'll get my Japanese PS3, no matter how much you try...

Yup, same here, im in the UK and im going to get a Japaniese PS3..... the only problem now is that its a gamble whether or not it will play all the PAL games that are released because even though teh console is region free, the games may not be!.. arg!

Oh and I also want to get a Bravia to go with it..... a nice 40" one!
 
i think sony needs to pull their heads out of their A** here. Of course they wont because all they care about is more money. They wouldnt have these problems, lawsuits, and other issues. If they would make their consoles either Truly Region Free, Or bring all of the over seas games to the other formats so everyone can play them. They will Never do either one cause more money can be made quicker by lawsuits and they also get that I dominated you when they get into lawsuits with smaller companies. Its a Power Trip thing, and sony has a bad case of it. Im starting to not want a PS3 anymore TBH. As each day goes on, and as sony does stuff like this to hurt the consumers instead of benifit from it, the Xbox 360 and Wii are becoming more appealing.
 
Yup, same here, im in the UK and im going to get a Japaniese PS3..... the only problem now is that its a gamble whether or not it will play all the PAL games that are released because even though teh console is region free, the games may not be!.. arg!

Oh and I also want to get a Bravia to go with it..... a nice 40" one!

Got one. :p Except it's a bit bigger.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/%20INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=KDS55A2000&Dept=tvvideo&CategoryName=tv_Full_HD_1080_Rear_Projection
This TV ( availible in different dimensions ) is beating 95% of the Plasma and LCD TV's atm and I'm not talking about the same price range, I'm talking about 5000 $+ TV's... oh and :

55" 1080P 2,5 ms reaction time, contrast : 10000:1 btw :drool:

This is THE TV concerning picture quality up to 5000 $. LCD? Plasma? No thanks....

kds-55a2000.jpg
 
exactly, when games are likely going to be all region locked, whats the point of having a region free console? In this case its for nothing since its region locked for movies.

By Truly region free i mean i could bring any game not from my region and not haft to worry about it not working in my console.
 
Play Asia
Price (60 GB model : ): US$ 999.00 (~793.25 EUR)


That is even more than I thought, but still : Told you so ! ( to those who didn't believe me that importing won't be cheap)

Add shipping (100$) + taxes (20%+ of the console incl shipping = 220$) then you are looking at nice and jucy 1300 $ (~1100 EUR )...ok you could also forget the EUR price since PA won't ship to EU, thanks Sony btw ;)
 
i think sony needs to pull their heads out of their A** here. Of course they wont because all they care about is more money. They wouldnt have these problems, lawsuits, and other issues. If they would make their consoles either Truly Region Free, Or bring all of the over seas games to the other formats so everyone can play them. They will Never do either one cause more money can be made quicker by lawsuits and they also get that I dominated you when they get into lawsuits with smaller companies. Its a Power Trip thing, and sony has a bad case of it. Im starting to not want a PS3 anymore TBH. As each day goes on, and as sony does stuff like this to hurt the consumers instead of benifit from it, the Xbox 360 and Wii are becoming more appealing.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Beacuse obviously there are TONS of business's out there who don't care about money!
 
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Beacuse obviously there are TONS of business's out there who don't care about money!
I hate to say it, but Jeremy has a point. That is a flawed argument, truthfully, if only because of "Business who donn't only care about money" point.
 
I'm not even trying to make a point of "right and wrong". It's just business. Lik-Sang was hurting profits for Sony, and even if it's "only a little" as some people "think" it is...it's still money lost.

Imagine there was someone who took your spare change every time you bought a combo meal at a fast food place. Then tell me you wouldn't try to put a stop to it, lol.

People make me gigL.
 
I'm not even trying to make a point of "right and wrong". It's just business. Lik-Sang was hurting profits for Sony, and even if it's "only a little" as some people "think" it is...it's still money lost.

Imagine there was someone who took your spare change every time you bought a combo meal at a fast food place. Then tell me you wouldn't try to put a stop to it, lol.

People make me gigL.

Would you shut the fast food restaurant down?
 
It's not that easy... look the import PS3 costs 1300 dollar... like nobody will pay that? I want to see the financial damage of taht. No need to gigl Jeremy, since if you knew what you are talking about you'd know that the (tiny) decrease of Sony's image is going to cost them more money than a few imports. Look at the price... and it won't go down a lot until March. After that even less people would import consoles anyway.

And I say it again, Sony is the only company out there with such a strict import policy and no, that'S not the reason why they are market leader. Look at MS and Nintendo, I don't think that imports affect them to a noticable degree... Piracy is a problem, probably the only real problem of the industry. Not imports.
And I ask again, why " a region code free " console without the possibility to use that feature? That's a huge joke...
 
Duck - It wasn't meant to be an analogy. It was meant to be a question of you putting yourself in someone else's shoes. If you were losing money, no matter how small, you'd be upset, I don't think any of us here at GTP are rich enough to say we don't care about our money. It's no different for Sony. Losing money is losing money, when you've got stocks and investor opinions at stake, you'll save those dimes. Investors LIKE moves like this, it shows profitability and stabalization in your market.

Max_DC - You seem to think the import market is bigger than it really is, lol. Sony didn't lose much on this, nor will they. If you think all of the regular consumers who have never bought in import in their life (remember, there are over 100million users who have owned PS1's and PS2's in the past)...then you're confused. I'd say, just off the top of my head, the import market is *maybe* 5% of that number. If Sony loses that 5%, they'll make it up somewhere else, more than likely with people who want a cheap Blu-Ray player. Fact is, your "thoughts" on this bad "PR" hurting Sony is humorous, at best. The "internets" (yenno, the forum goers) make up such a small portion of the community, it's ridiculous. And most of the "internets" who are complaining about it, don't even import! It's just a band wagon fiasco, but you know what? When the next Metal Gear, Tekken, Devil May Cry, Socom, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, etc come out, people WILL buy the consoles, even if they are playing the crying game because they couldn't import such and such.

Also, the reason for the PS3 being region free has nothing to do with importers. Again, you have probably never looked at the big picture, ever in your life. The REASON it's region free is so Sony can produce ONE SKU. ONE. They don't need to spend extra time and money making additional models to ship to different territories. They make one PS3 and ship it around the globe, the Blu-Ray region lock is in firmware. This saves ENORMOUS amounts of time and money, and increases profitability. However, the fact is, that most *games* will be region locked through software. Sony has stated this, Acclaim has also backed it IIRC, as well as a few other select developers. For THIS reason, importing a PS3 would be useless, since you may or may not be able to play all your games.
 
One more reason why I will never buy another Sony product ever again. I have a PS2 and a PSP, both of which I rarely use. The PSP is overrated rubbish and my PSP is the only electronic item I have ever owned that has broken. I hope Nintendo can battle Sony all the way with the new Wii.
 
Duck - It wasn't meant to be an analogy. It was meant to be a question of you putting yourself in someone else's shoes. If you were losing money, no matter how small, you'd be upset, I don't think any of us here at GTP are rich enough to say we don't care about our money. It's no different for Sony. Losing money is losing money, when you've got stocks and investor opinions at stake, you'll save those dimes. Investors LIKE moves like this, it shows profitability and stabalization in your market.

If I were Sony, and someone (Lik-Sang) was taking my pocket change, of course I would be upset. But because of that, Sony shut the entire thing down. I would think that in a case like this, you'd make Lik-Sang not sell Sony products, instead of shutting the entire thing down. That way, from what I can tell, is a win-win situation. Sony keeps it's money, but other people who want to enjoy importing other products still have their Lik-Sang.
 
One more reason why I will never buy another Sony product ever again. I have a PS2 and a PSP, both of which I rarely use. The PSP is overrated rubbish and my PSP is the only electronic item I have ever owned that has broken. I hope Nintendo can battle Sony all the way with the new Wii.

👍

Totally agree. Especially with the PSP being overrated part.
 
Max_DC - You seem to think the import market is bigger than it really is, lol. Sony didn't lose much on this, nor will they. If you think all of the regular consumers who have never bought in import in their life (remember, there are over 100million users who have owned PS1's and PS2's in the past)...then you're confused.
I'd say, just off the top of my head, the import market is *maybe* 5% of that number.

What ? I said like 20 times that Sony shouldn't care about imports because they won't affect their profits. And why don't they affect their profits ? Because only a few freaks are willing to pay more money for games they can't fully understand ( Japanese language)... 5%? Never. Maybe 1%, if at all.
And a 1300 dollar PS3 means another massive decrease, at least on the hardware side.


If Sony loses that 5%, they'll make it up somewhere else, more than likely with people who want a cheap Blu-Ray player.

Well while that is correct, it's not really an argument for Sony to stop their actions against imports... you know because they could save the 5% they lose with imports and rise prices at the same tme, which would mean even more profits.


Fact is, your "thoughts" on this bad "PR" hurting Sony is humorous, at best. The "internets" (yenno, the forum goers) make up such a small portion of the community, it's ridiculous. And most of the "internets" who are complaining about it, don't even import! It's just a band wagon fiasco, but you know what? When the next Metal Gear, Tekken, Devil May Cry, Socom, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy, etc come out, people WILL buy the consoles, even if they are playing the crying game because they couldn't import such and such.

Ah I don't know. I mean yeah you have a point, but you could also see it this way : the true fans, the diehard freaks get all their info in the internet. And those are the guys the average joe asks when he wants to get info. I get asked about games all the times by friends and people I know, simply because I know a lot about them. And I will tell those stories.

Also, don't forget game magazines : They will mention it, at least here in Germany.
Note that I didn't say that Sony will make huge losses because of a the massive effect of this Sony-VS-imports thing on their sales. All I said was, that it has a tiny little effect. A very small effect, maybe 0.3 %. But how big is the import market really ? And it's not that I steal games by importing, they still make profits, just not as much in every region, but still they are earning money. So if that sub 1 % import market will collpse and break down to maybe 0,5% they wouldn't really win anything with their behavior. If you also consider the fact that imports in the first 6 months costs like 200+% of the domestic prices, then there is no 1% import market, but maybe a 0,1 % market.

It get's a little confusing, so I'll give you a simple example of what I want to say :

Take a thief in a department store. He is 65 years old and steals some food worth maybe 50 dollars. Ok, now what Microsoft and Nintendo ( as metaphorical store owners ) do, is installing a few cameras in order to avoid massive thefts.
And what does Sony ? They send a 200 pound guy right in front of the shop and that guy beats the cra* out of the thief. Sure, they got their food back, but one or two customers who watched the scene won't come back.
Not only that... offering a region code free PS3 is like putting a sign in front of the department store, which says : "Thiefs come here, please take whatever you want without paying!". It gets even worse. That thief was a customer for 40 years ( since people who import usually spend a lot of money on videogames, more than the average joe)


Also, the reason for the PS3 being region free has nothing to do with importers. Again, you have probably never looked at the big picture, ever in your life. The REASON it's region free is so Sony can produce ONE SKU. ONE. They don't need to spend extra time and money making additional models to ship to different territories. They make one PS3 and ship it around the globe, the Blu-Ray region lock is in firmware. This saves ENORMOUS amounts of time and money, and increases profitability.

So thank you for your enlightenment, Jesus Worldunderstander. Until this very moment I thought that Sony loves grey imports :rolleyes:
But what you say is the big picture you made up in your mind. And it's wrong, so wrong. Uhhhh one SKU - so what ? They still neeed a different firmware, a different voltage convertor / power unit, a different manual, a different sticker on the back of the console ( In German, in French, In "Insert language" together with very special emblems : In germany we have several special german emblems on every electronic device ), a diffeerent package and I could go on for hours. And a region code lock is also a software thing, just as the firmware.

I tell you why they made it region code free. First of all its marketing. It just sounds good ( hey I could get games from everywhere....NOT).
And the main reason, and here is your big picture, is PIRACY. THAT makes Sony lose 30% profits. And when their console is region code free NO modchip designer can say : "What ? Piracy? Nooo, we just want to help people with playing import games from Japan" That is a perfect base for any trial against those companies.

It's not that I don't understand Sony to a certain degree. Still I think it's the wrong way of dealing with problems.

However, the fact is, that most *games* will be region locked through software. Sony has stated this, Acclaim has also backed it IIRC, as well as a few other select developers. For THIS reason, importing a PS3 would be useless, since you may or may not be able to play all your games.
 
Duċk;2476749
If I were Sony, and someone (Lik-Sang) was taking my pocket change, of course I would be upset. But because of that, Sony shut the entire thing down. I would think that in a case like this, you'd make Lik-Sang not sell Sony products, instead of shutting the entire thing down. That way, from what I can tell, is a win-win situation. Sony keeps it's money, but other people who want to enjoy importing other products still have their Lik-Sang.

Lik-Sang refused to stop selling Sony Products through Grey-Importing. Thus, Sony was forced to challenge them through the legal system. They did not "Shut them down". Lik-Sang knew what they were doing was wrong, they didn't stop, and they couldn't afford to carry out a trial. It's their fault for not halting their sales. But, obviously you guy's think you're entitled to rip off any business and their attempt to stop thing that hurt their profits are right.


Sony should have just lied down and taken it right? Who cares right? Sure. Nothing any of you have said has refuted this point. They are a business, and their goal is to make money. Expecting them to do anything different is stupid, no matter how self important you think you are.
 
Lik-Sang refused to stop selling Sony Products through Grey-Importing. Thus, Sony was forced to challenge them through the legal system. They did not "Shut them down". Lik-Sang knew what they were doing was wrong, they didn't stop, and they couldn't afford to carry out a trial. It's their fault for not halting their sales. But, obviously you guy's think you're entitled to rip off any business and their attempt to stop thing that hurt their profits are right.

Ok, thanks for clueing me in.
 
Lik-Sang refused to stop selling Sony Products through Grey-Importing. Thus, Sony was forced to challenge them through the legal system. They did not "Shut them down". Lik-Sang knew what they were doing was wrong, they didn't stop, and they couldn't afford to carry out a trial. It's their fault for not halting their sales. But, obviously you guy's think you're entitled to rip off any business and their attempt to stop thing that hurt their profits are right.
Again, before Max_DC says something, what did Lik-Sang do that was illegal? Yeah, they could have told Lik-Sang to not sell the PS3 (and they did do just that to Play-Asia) by not selling them to Lik-Sang and maybe even threatened legal action (which depends entirely on the country they do it in). But if they want to say it was illegal I would like to know what specific law Lik-Sang was breaking, as I am rather in the dark about it and nothing Sony has said so far that I've seen explains it any better.
 
Again, before Max_DC says something, what did Lik-Sang do that was illegal? Yeah, they could have told Lik-Sang to not sell the PS3 (and they did do just that to Play-Asia) by not selling them to Lik-Sang and maybe even threatened legal action (which depends entirely on the country they do it in). But if they want to say it was illegal I would like to know what specific law Lik-Sang was breaking, as I am rather in the dark about it and nothing Sony has said so far that I've seen explains it any better.

Previously, Lik-Sang sold modchips, but the most recent conflict was that Lik-Sang selling PSPs in the UK (and European Economic Area), which according to the High Court of London, was "unlawful". As for what specific thing was illegal, I'm not sure.
 
Duċk;2477218
Previously, Lik-Sang sold modchips, but the most recent conflict was that Lik-Sang selling PSPs in the UK (and European Economic Area), which according to the High Court of London, was "unlawful". As for what specific thing was illegal, I'm not sure.

It's like this. The price that Lik-Sang buy's the PS3 for in Asia is lower than the price they would have re-sold for in the UK. This "buying and selling" is *closely* related to the Black Market. However, since the product is not in the UK at the time, it's referred to as "grey importing". And the UK courts declared it unlawful (this means not abiding with the law ladies and gentlemen). It's obvious that Lik-Sang would not stop the sale of the PSP and PS3 in the UK, as their actions have shown. Otherwise they would have simply STOPPED selling PSP's and PS3's, and there would be no legal action, and there would be no reason for any more law suit, thus eliminating the threat that Lik-Sang would have had from Sony.

But, facts are facts, and without the sales of Sony consoles through importing, Lik-Sang had absolutely nothing left to stand on. Their mod=chip market was already shut down (which was their main breadwinner) and now they were getting their markup console importing business shut down. It's basically a no win situation for them.
 
Lik-Sang refused to stop selling Sony Products through Grey-Importing. Thus, Sony was forced to challenge them through the legal system. They did not "Shut them down". Lik-Sang knew what they were doing was wrong, they didn't stop, and they couldn't afford to carry out a trial. It's their fault for not halting their sales. But, obviously you guy's think you're entitled to rip off any business and their attempt to stop thing that hurt their profits are right.


Sony should have just lied down and taken it right? Who cares right? Sure. Nothing any of you have said has refuted this point. They are a business, and their goal is to make money. Expecting them to do anything different is stupid, no matter how self important you think you are.

It's like this. The price that Lik-Sang buy's the PS3 for in Asia is lower than the price they would have re-sold for in the UK. This "buying and selling" is *closely* related to the Black Market. However, since the product is not in the UK at the time, it's referred to as "grey importing". And the UK courts declared it unlawful (this means not abiding with the law ladies and gentlemen). It's obvious that Lik-Sang would not stop the sale of the PSP and PS3 in the UK, as their actions have shown. Otherwise they would have simply STOPPED selling PSP's and PS3's, and there would be no legal action, and there would be no reason for any more law suit, thus eliminating the threat that Lik-Sang would have had from Sony.

But, facts are facts, and without the sales of Sony consoles through importing, Lik-Sang had absolutely nothing left to stand on. Their mod=chip market was already shut down (which was their main breadwinner) and now they were getting their markup console importing business shut down. It's basically a no win situation for them.

Well is the legal situation that simple and clear as you describe it ? I have my doubts tbh. Why ? Because Sony doesn't sue all the other import dealers on the planet, Playasia, NCSX, Yes-asia, ACME ( Europe ) and what not. Why not ? If it is that simple ? I don't believe that Sony would win a high court trial in the end. Sony doesn't care, because they have the money to make as many trial as they want.

Imports in general are not illegal. But if you think about it, every import, if a book from the usa, or a dvd from Canada or a car from France are grey imports... yet nobody can do anything against it. As I said somewhere before, re importing VW's to Germany and saving up to 25% is sth many people and agencies do. Does VW like it ? Of course not, but they can't do anything against it ! And they are losing a lot of money with it !

Sony can say what the ywant, they don't have the law on their side. Just because some random local judge in GB says so, it doesn't mean it actually is right.

Nobody forces Sony to sell their stuff that expensive. Every grey import is fully taxed and therefor not illegal. I see the problem with licence law, but hey, we live on a global market, Sony has to deal with losing control just as everybody else.

And Jeremi I ask again, if imports are sooo bad, why do MS and Nintendo don't care - at all ? Perhaps you should ask them to hand over the lead to an expert like you, maybe you could rise profits for them ;)
 
👍

Totally agree. Especially with the PSP being overrated part.

And I meant that my PS2 is the only electronic thing I have owned that has ever broken, but come to think of it the motor went in my PSP too!
 
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