Race incident discussion

  • Thread starter Thread starter DeuceOfClub
  • 83 comments
  • 5,467 views

What's your opinion?

  • The RX-7 (Leading) drivers is at fault.

    Votes: 57 29.4%

  • The Quattro (chasing) driver is at fault.

    Votes: 38 19.6%

  • No fault, just an unfortunate racing incident.

    Votes: 99 51.0%
  • Total voters
    194
D

DeuceOfClub

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DeuceOfClub
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I would like to share an incident from a private club race series (Online Race), and to hear your opinions about who, if any, is at fault.

This is a 2 cars race between an RX-7 / leading and a Quattro / chasing (very evenly matched I might add) and between two drivers who are familiar and respect each other.

Since I'm involved I will reserve from sharing my opinion, I'm also adding a poll, but would really like to hear your reasoning.

The YouTube video contain a replay from both cars 'point of view' and few slow-mo at the end.



Few side notes:
The race is run under GTP OnLine Racing Rules, unless stated otherwise.
Specific rules and regulations:
Car regulations:
- production cars only
- model year from 1980 to 1999, inclusive
- no race cars, no RM cars, no concept cars, no tune shop cars
- Sports Hard tires
- 345 HP max
- 1200 kg min
- 0 front downforce
- max 20 rear downforce
- no more than 2% engine limiting (98% engine power)
- ballast allowed (no limit)
- all mods and upgrades allowed, as long as regulations are met
.....
Race settings:
- heavy damage
- real grip loss
- penalties off
- boost off

Driving settings:
- all aids off
- ABS optional
- course map off

Clean driving is expected:
- The driver who is ahead before corner turn in has right of way.
- No leaning or cushioning.
- No guiding of other vehicles off their chosen racing lines.
- On fast sections, let oncoming vehicles pass (though you may choose which side opponents must pass on).
- Pass with minimal or no contact.
- For racetrack courses: Two or more tires should be on or over the track at all times
- For walled courses: All drivable areas of the track are legal
- No intentional hard collisions into the rear or side of another vehicle.
- All instances of contact may be subject to a vote to decide if the contact was clean or not. If the incident is considered dirty by vote, the offending driver is assessed an automatic loss on the race.
 
I voted that the leading driver was at fault, even though I believe it was just a racing incident and not worth worrying about.

The car passing clearly had the inside line and the outside car came down to cause the contact. You can see the passing car didn't go up the track.
 
Come on, racing is taking risk, taking risk leads to some scratchs...
In my opinion no ones fault here, both were racing to win
 
Lead cars angle suggests it was going to not leave sufficient room to avoid contact, however the passing car was running wide of the apex and therefore was always likely to make contact.

Verdict, racing incident, no fault apportioned to either driver.
 
Bit of an opportunist move by the chasing driver but reasonably fair. Don't really blame the leading driver for turning in as I'd have been surprised to have someone try to pass me there.

Racing incident. Just unfortunate that the leading driver got pushed into the wall as a result.
 
DIA1974
Lead cars angle suggests it was going to not leave sufficient room to avoid contact, however the passing car was running wide of the apex and therefore was always likely to make contact.

Verdict, racing incident, no fault apportioned to either driver.
Click to expand...

👍 Agreed.

Chasing car would miss apex and push leading car wide or, more likely, make contact. Chase car speed was ~140 xxx/hr (can't read km/hr or mph probably km/hr).

Leading car slammed door shut after leaving a wide open gap for chase car to shoot and was slow into/out of corner. Lead car speed was ~130 xxx/hr.

Hopefully, you've all moved on and started another race.
 
"Its the Quattro's fault. The RX-7 first with track position and was clearly taking out."

Actually, you are wrong. The Quattro had the inside line. He had the door, and he was clean. The RX-7 driver came down into the Quattro. Obviously didn't see the Quattro make the move, which is the RX-7 driver's fault. The RX-7 would have had to close the door before that, to defend his position. A gap was left open, and the Audi took it.

Still, not that big of an incident. Appears to be no malicious intentions.

"And if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you are no longer a racing." - Ayrton Senna
 
The Audi had the position, and even looked like it jerked to the left right before impact, like he was trying to avoid contact. It was just a racing incident. I don't think either was at fault, but the Audi did have the right to that position once he got along side the Mazda. I would have done the same thing if I was in the Audi, but I probably wouldn't have left the door that open, in that position, if I was in the Mazda.
 
I think the question was answered in the OP.

Clean driving is expected:
- The driver who is ahead before corner turn in has right of way.
Click to expand...

It was a somewhat dirty move on the part of the Audi, after which the driver should have slowed and allowed the Mazda to return to position before resuming the race.
 
Hi. I'm the lead driver (RX-7). Thank you to everyone for sharing your thoughts thus far, it has been educational and interesting. For the record, the official ruling in our league/club was that it was a fair pass, and DeuceOfClub continued on to win, since I had front-right damage that made me uncompetitive for the rest of the race. There were zero hard feelings on either side, and we only brought it up for discussion for the education of the group members, to improve or ensure clean racing for future races. I think everyone can agree that in the grand scheme of things, it's not anything to get upset over. But I think it's still interesting to discuss.

Some of my thoughts on the matter: The key here, assuming GTP OLR (section 8, Corner Rights), is the definition of the point of turn in. This is a very tricky situation, because a chicane is involved, rather than the incident occurring on a nice, simple corner with straights at entry and exit. I'm not sure where the point of turn in is supposed to be, and the GTP OLR are silent on this matter. If you consider the point of turn in to be the point where the car's G-force meter begins moving from zero to the outside, then it seems to me that the video shows that the chasing vehicle's front bumper had not yet reached the leading vehicle's driver position yet.

I'm ready to admit, however, that I did not use my side view at that time to check where the other car was, and that was negligence on my part. If I did, I would have gone slightly wider, and if there was no contact, I wouldn't have lost grip, and wouldn't have gone into the wall.
 
car behind saw the chance went for the inside line took it and the other guy had nowhere to go, tbh it looked like the second car was much faster and it was only a matter of time before he took the lead
 
Both drivers fault. The RX7 for not watching the rearview mirror and leave the door waaay open and the quattro for overtaking in a turn causing a crash.
 
Well its not easy to pick out, but the Rx7 is at fault here as he tries to prevent the Quattro from taking the inside line, while he was on the outside going into the corner. No penalty should be given though.
 
He ( the faster car/driver ) taps you because you didn't use your mirrors after practically giving him the inside line and then at the last minute changing your line.
I'd say there is no doubt your ever so slightly at fault if i had to pick either-or, but i'd also vote for the most insignificant crash i ever cared about.
 
STIG_RS6
This is really serious, did anyone get hurt?
Click to expand...

I hope not, it looked really dangerous.

Btw, i do this all the time, and it happens to me all the time as well. And also, what is up with those handbrake turns by the quattro it looks ugly.....or is that how it corners?
 
Audi had a large run coming, and that right-of-way rule seems a little too black-and-white. The Audi went through the door and had a large run while the RX-7 stayed wider. The RX-7 had no reason to believe that the lane was going to be there when he got back.

Racing incident, yes, but the RX-7 would be at fault.
 
Race settings:
- heavy damage
- real grip loss

Why would the RX-7, the much looser of the two, have a reason to cause this? I think its a simple case of not paying attention. The stable audi, already on the inside wont be bothered with an incident like this, but with sport hard tires, real grip and heavy damage, the RX-7 would be foolish to attempt an all to late block.

I voted RX-7 at fault. Nothing malicious, but a possible lack of awareness could have been the problem.
 
I'd blame both :p
RX driver shouldn't have closed the overtaking path and mister Audi came actually too fast to corner and got better driving line by bumping the leader.
 
This is why triple screens is a must for competitive racing. If you had that setup you'd have seen the audi get alongside before it was too late to adjust your line. A lot of dough to be sure but if you are going to take it this seriously it is probably worth it.
 

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