Racism in F1

  • Thread starter Thread starter DQuaN
  • 96 comments
  • 4,901 views
I won't answer you until you address my original statement... but don't feel obligated to. I've given you enough reasons to prove why it's nto so much "racism" and more "making fun of"... it's only "racism" because the media is portraying it as a race problem. But hey, you keep telling yourself it's racism and keep living in Sphinx-world. 👍
 
Edit:

OK, I concede. It was bloody hilarious, and it must’ve been fun to watch.
 
I won't answer you until you address my original statement... but don't feel obligated to. I've given you enough reasons to prove why it's not so much "racism" and more "making fun of"... it's only "racism" because the media is portraying it as a race problem. But hey, you keep telling yourself it's racism and keep living in Sphinx-world. 👍

Yeah, it's funny that racism is actually created by its constant acknowledgment in the attempt to get rid of it.

People are actually concerned with racial tolerance when all of us should be looking entirely beyond race in the first place.
 
Perhaps the best response would be for the FIA to make it very clear to the clubs in Spain and to the public in general that any such deomnstrations in the future will result in action. That will guarantee that anyone thinking of such stupidity will think twice before opening their mouths again for fear that they will not only incite the wrath of fellow Spaniards but also the authorities. They need to understand that by resorting to such abuse they are not great Spaniards but rather traitors to their country and to the sport.
 
Way to copy a paragraph from grandprix.com…

Why is race such a sensitive characteristic? When people harass Montoya for being fat it’s funny, but when people harass Hamilton for being black it’s not. I recognise there is a difference, but I have to ask why? It is just another physical characteristic…
 
Way to copy a paragraph from grandprix.com…

Wow, Blake, you're so incisive. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know all my sources had to be cited with website, author, year and length, as well as adding the copyright and all the legal ins and outs of it.

I'll be sure to remember it.
 
Way to copy a paragraph from grandprix.com…

Why is race such a sensitive characteristic? When people harass Montoya for being fat it’s funny, but when people harass Hamilton for being black it’s not. I recognise there is a difference, but I have to ask why? It is just another physical characteristic…
Because of the histoircal connotactions. African-Americans were sold into slavery, the Jews were subjected to the Holocaust, Australian Aboriginals were abducted and forcibly assimilated into white European culture. Atrocities have been committed in the name of race, but not in the name of obesity.
 
Wow, Blake, you're so incisive. Oh I'm sorry, I didn't know all my sources had to be cited with website, author, year and length, as well as adding the copyright and all the legal ins and outs of it.

I'll be sure to remember it.

You posted it like you wrote it. You know that’s pretty poor form…
 
Got this today. I won't translate all of it, but I'll let you have some of it.

El Pais
There is an essential explanation to all of this. Deeper and hidden, which transforms the crudeness of the insult into something else. "It's about offending, hurting the other. There's no racism involved", explains Juan Díez Nicolás, veteran researcher and sociologist. Issues that aren't understood iin other European countries especially UK, where the matter is still one of the star subjects of the week and still gets them worked up. "Racism is part of Spanish sports, and reflects part of its society," says the BBC.

In Spain it's seen differently, "That is not disrespecting someone for their race", assures one of the interviewed psychologists. In this case it meant that "he's Alonso's rival, and he was unsportsmanlike and unloyal with him last season when they were in the same team."

"Then why not call him an a-hole directly?" asks Paul Hamelos, correspondent for the Guardian, when reaching the zenith of his argument, after hearing that the reason of it was that it was Carnival. "It was costume day, and Brits don't understand that."

The most repeated thesis in Spain is that the adrenalin associated with the anonymity in masses, who attend the great sporting events ignites these excesses. A repeated observation by sociologists such as Díez Nicolás and others, is that these same individuals, in any other context, wouldn't dare say "***ing Black!". But why do they in the stadium?

Every time Spanish sports are news because of an occurence such as this, the spiral goes to reinterpreting the words. Like when the national footbal selecter (sp?) mentioned Thierry Henry through his skin colour.

"Spain is not racist. What is has is a lack of imagination and all-around a-holeness. It's wrong, of course. But we must not confuse the terms." "It's as if we called someone fatso or shorty", says Díaz Nicolás.

The media specialised in sports weren't so theoretical with the scandal that affected Aragonés. "He's like that", "They were booed because they were English", insisted referring to the match against the English National team where the crowds made fun of Wright Phillips (who if black) making monkey sounds.

An indulgence that contrasts with the political correctness that reigns in countries such as Germany, for example, where the spectators themselves confront and denounce whoever shouts these kinds of words. In England, scandals which refer to any kind of racism in the media end in people quittiing their job, as it happened with the commentator and ex-coach Ron Atkinson, who had to abandon ITV because he left the microphone open when talking about a black player.

Maybe because of that, today the British are demanding the Spanish institutions do something. But the Spanish institutitions, precisely the Sporting Commission, say ther are indeed doing something. "There is a law that was just approved in July of last year, referring to violence and racism in sport. All we're waiting is for the decrees to be laid down." says Jaime Lissavetzky, state secretary.

This law has served to duplicate the number of financial sanctions in football fields. "Does this mean there's more racism, or more control?", asks Lissavetzky. He answers himself "It means there's more control, but the key is in educating people".

A statement in which many sports figures concede, such as Samuel Eto'o and Mauro Silva (both black) "Sports reflect what happens in society, and not all of it is good.". Eto'o left a football field in Zaragoza because of the insults proferred because of his skin colour.

But while the social conscience is developed, the new law acts. Javier Durán, from Observatory Against Racism, a government-funded organisation believes the xenophobic behaviours in sports are "tremendously negative because they're part of a social belief". Worse yet, he believes what happened in Barcelona is an indicator that they've jumped from football (its usual habitat) into other sports. "Especially alarming when you take into account that the arrival of people of other races into Spain has been constant during the last five years." Today they account for 10% of the population.

Many of the Spanish automobile clubs aren't worrying too much about this kind of behaviour happening on race day. "The entrance to a race is at least 90 euros, so these kind of people can't enter. The McLaren training session was only six euros and all kinds of people came".

Lastly, the analysis of some British academics, cited by the Times about the issue say the Spanish society "isn't racist, but very inexperienced about living with immigrants". People "see with lightness and indulgence the discrediting of people because of the colour of their skin".

According to this, Spaniards aren't more racist than any other country around it, but they have less experience living with different people and the subtleties that that mean. To the point where they don't know the strength of their insults.

On the other hand, some Spanish institutions don't go overboard asking for explanations about the Hooligans behaviour, when any team from the UK plays in Spain. "We don't say the English are vandals or drunks because some fans in fact, are", says Durán. In short, "the English exaggerate, apparently".

Many high officials in Spain ask themselves if Spain is minimising the issue, or ig UK is maximising it?
 
It's the same thing in Argentina.
 
Got this today. I won't translate all of it, but I'll let you have some of it.
They're treading on thin ice there, though I would'nt say it is utterly wrong. But the biggest mistake you can do with racism (or any aspect of unpleasent human behaviour) is to rationalise it away.
I think this has really hurt the Spanish self-image. But it's always good to ask yourself biting questions where the answers may not be what you hope to hear.
Every country has this problem. It just so happens that circumstance means that the problem has appered from Spanish F1 fans. (There HAS been racism in F1 for years, it's just not been so transparent).
And anyway I know for a fact there are plenty of people in the UK who have a bigoted opinion of Hamilton. It could've happend somewhere else, but it happend in Spain. Deal with it.

Because of the histoircal connotactions. African-Americans were sold into slavery, the Jews were subjected to the Holocaust, Australian Aboriginals were abducted and forcibly assimilated into white European culture. Atrocities have been committed in the name of race, but not in the name of obesity.
Bang on.
 
And, as if anyone is surprised, Alonso jumps in and joins Bernie in saying it's a one off to defend the Spanish fans.

Fernando Alonso has defended Spain's Formula One fans, saying the recent abuse of Lewis Hamilton was an "isolated thing."

Hamilton was subjected to racial taunts from a few spectators during a pre-season test at Barcelona earlier this month.

The incident led to widespread condemnation as well as the FIA threatening to axe both the Spanish and European grands prix - the latter to be held in Valencia - should there be any repeat.

However, Alonso has defended his compatriots, saying it was an isolated incident and that Spain's F1 fans should not be branded racist because of it.

"This is not a racist country," Alonso told AP. "This was an isolated thing.

"The less we talk about what happened 15 days ago the better, because that's a completely isolated case from someone who was celebrating carnival.

"I haven't seen any video or recording of the alleged insults."

He added: "Last year they called me a dog in a few races. Niki Lauda said those things about me and no one came to me to show me their support."

As to the dog thing though... Yeah Fernando...that kinda happens when you act like a child and is a wee bit different from a racist comment...
 

Well said, Diego! The past year has been all about HAMILTON, his race(color), and his hype. Everything was 'fine' til he showed up. Only 'race' I care for is on the track. Will FIA 'pull' 2 Spanish events? Max Mosely isn't that stupid... Santander and others could respond accordingly. Brits are pissed with themselves, they had a (THE) champion and screwed themselves royally... now he's home and they 'can't let it go'.:)
 
Well said, Diego! The past year has been all about HAMILTON, his race(color), and his hype. Everything was 'fine' til he showed up. Only 'race' I care for is on the track. Will FIA 'pull' 2 Spanish events? Max Mosely isn't that stupid... Santander and others could respond accordingly. Brits are pissed with themselves, they had a (THE) champion and screwed themselves royally... now he's home and they 'can't let it go'.:)
I don't think it's so much bout racial background as it is about the Spanish fans feeling Alonso got a raw deal last year and that preferene was given to Hamilton. The easiest way for them to vent that anger is for them to insult him based on his racial background.
 
Brits are pissed with themselves, they had a (THE) champion and screwed themselves royally... now he's home and they 'can't let it go'.:)

Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying…
 
Sorry, I don’t understand what you are saying…
He's saying that the English are making a mountain out of a molehill because Hamilton lost the championship when he should have won it easily. Because they're sour over losing, they've decided to blow the whole racism issue out of proportion because they're sore losers. In other words, the Spanish fans at the testing was not as big an incident as the British press is making it out to be.
 
That's a pretty fair analysis, I think - the UK tabloids are making a massive deal out of it - and even attempting to make it look like Alonso himself is encouraging it, whereas in reality I think he has behaved completely fairly. There's no excuse for the racial abuse, but similarly there is no excuse for the tabloids that refuse to put it into perspective.
 
Alonso got a raw deal last year and that preferene was given to Hamilton.

Preference wasn’t given to Hamilton. They both had the same opportunity. Alonso was just being a pansy because he wanted preferential treatment.
 
That's a pretty fair analysis, I think - the UK tabloids are making a massive deal out of it - and even attempting to make it look like Alonso himself is encouraging it, whereas in reality I think he has behaved completely fairly. There's no excuse for the racial abuse, but similarly there is no excuse for the tabloids that refuse to put it into perspective.
When was the last time the tabloids actually reported anything correctly? Take the filming of the new James Bond film in Panama: the tabloids reported stuff was being stolen by a Panamarian gang. Then they said the producers paid off another gang to protect their stuff, which didn't work because the second gang joined in stealing equipment. Which led to the notion that te producers started a gang war, and because of that, the riots that have plagued the capital of late. I even read one story that said Daniel Craig had actually shot a man. Of course, none of this actually happened. The producers issued a statement saying filming has not been delayed by the troubles, that the riots are nowhere near them, that none of the cast and crew are in any danger, and reprimanding the tabloids for causing emotional distress to the familis of the cast and crew still in England who have had to put up wth this drivel. he tabloids largely ignored it.

The point is that tabloids never put things into perspective. They see what they want to see, hear what they want to hear, and print whatever they think will get them the most readers. I'm surprised they've been able to get away with it for so long, myself. I did a week's work experience with a local paper that had a tabloid-ish section in it, and one of the serious reporters told me they seem to live by the maxim "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story".
Preference wasn’t given to Hamilton. They both had the same opportunity. Alonso was just being a pansy because he wanted preferential treatment.
I get that, but the sixty-four thousand dollar question is ... does the Spanish media get it, too?
 
I get that, but the sixty-four thousand dollar question is ... does the Spanish media get it, too?

of course not. The way they saw it was that if Schumi got preferred treatment in Ferrari, Alonso should get it in McLaren or anywhere else... which in some spheres is debatable.
 
i just felt like double posting
 
But doesn't every driver have a right to expect that based on his championship position rather than his name? I like Ferrari's attitude of supporting both drivers equally until one of them mathematically cannot win. If they threw all their resources behind Felipe Massa last year simply because he had driven for them before, the outcome of the championship would have been markedly different. Over at McLaren, both Hamilton and Alonso were in the running until the very final stages, even if Alonso were an outside chance. It was wrong of Alonso to expect McLaren to treat him like the prodigal son when Lewis Hamilton was the more competitive. I think McLaren were fair and balanced last year and that most of Alonso's mistakes were his own, like that off at the beginning of the Canadian GP.

But in the same way, the British press can't expect Hamilton will get all the favour, and they have no right to imply racism towards Hamilton by Spanish fans simply because they're sour England lost two World Championships in as many days.
 
Golden boy Hamilton instigated firestorm in interview last month when he said, "Alonso is an example how not to act as WDC." NOT a good idea when you're going to SPAIN, he underestimated Alonso's fan base & insulted their national hero.
I say Hamilton is an example how not to act as a ROOKIE, no matter how 'skilled'. When RD told LH to let FA pass for his hot lap in qualifying @ HungaroRing, LH responded to RD by saying, "GO ****ING SWIVEL". RD couldn't control his boy. Alonso wouldn't put up with BS and returned the favour, by holding in pit lane. Way it is, RD wasted Alonso time by signing him, only to let rookie be the 'fly in the ointment'. You must play 'second fiddle' before becoming 'virtuoso'. There's a saying about pissing in the wind...
Reap the whirlwind RD, LH.
 
I like Ferrari's attitude of supporting both drivers equally until one of them mathematically cannot win.

Uhhh... did you happen to watch F1 at any time between 1999 and 2006?

Ferrari was built completely around Michael Schumacher... whenever Rubens was anywhere ahead of Schumi, he decelerated, braked or found a way so that Schumi would catch up to him. Similarly, whenever Schumi was ahead of Rubens, it was Rubens' job to block off anyone from attempting to take over...

It's common knowledge. Never, ever, ever was Rubens in any position to 1) win a world championship with Ferrari, or 2) win a race for Ferrari is Schumacher was less than 5 seconds behind him at any given point, unless of course, Schumi was already mathematically a world champion.
 
Uhhh... did you happen to watch F1 at any time between 1999 and 2006?

Ferrari was built completely around Michael Schumacher... whenever Rubens was anywhere ahead of Schumi, he decelerated, braked or found a way so that Schumi would catch up to him. Similarly, whenever Schumi was ahead of Rubens, it was Rubens' job to block off anyone from attempting to take over...

It's common knowledge. Never, ever, ever was Rubens in any position to 1) win a world championship with Ferrari, or 2) win a race for Ferrari is Schumacher was less than 5 seconds behind him at any given point, unless of course, Schumi was already mathematically a world champion.

Well said, Alonso deserves the same and will get it at Renault where Briatore will treat him right.
 
Golden boy Hamilton instigated firestorm in interview last month when he said, "Alonso is an example how not to act as WDC." NOT a good idea when you're going to SPAIN, he underestimated Alonso's fan base & insulted their national hero.
I say Hamilton is an example how not to act as a ROOKIE, no matter how 'skilled'. When RD told LH to let FA pass for his hot lap in qualifying @ HungaroRing, LH responded to RD by saying, "GO ****ING SWIVEL". RD couldn't control his boy. Alonso wouldn't put up with BS and returned the favour, by holding in pit lane. Way it is, RD wasted Alonso time by signing him, only to let rookie be the 'fly in the ointment'. You must play 'second fiddle' before becoming 'virtuoso'. There's a saying about pissing in the wind...
Reap the whirlwind RD, LH.

Easy to say for an outsider who has never experienced that kinda pressure that Fernando and Lewis were under. Use that noggin, there's flashes of your posts the indicate you have one.

Regardless of where the testing was however, Hamilton does have a point in how not to act, yes ok he's probably not one to talk as he hasn't yet been in the position of World Champion. But, the point stands that you do not act like a spoilt brat when you are being beaten fair and square by your rookie team mate (and even Alonso admitted he was equally treated at McLaren when the season was over). Could Hamilton have handled his comments better? Sure, but Alonso could've handled his behaviour a lot better too, as could the fans. There is no excuse or justification for that behaviour, what Hamilton said is a far cry from what the selection of Spanish fans did.

As to Lewis' comments over the radio, since when did anyone complain about say...Fisi saying "This is ****, this is effing ****" to his mechanics when his car wasn't behaving a couple of seasons ago. That's still the same deal but no one ever once made a big deal out of it...except for Brundle. Would anyone have made a deal of it if it had been Fernando? Or a different driver all together? Simple fact is even the most level of headed people lose their temper from time to time regardless of position.

*breathes* I hate typing long paragraphs...lol
 
Fisi saying "This is ****, this is effing ****" to his mechanics when his car wasn't behaving a couple of seasons ago.

:lol: I remember that one

Coulthard did it last season or the one before too, at one point.
 
Simple fact is even the most level of headed people lose their temper from time to time regardless of position.

Kimi only looses his temper when the marshalls try to drag him away from the track after retiring.
 
Well said, Diego!

Then why revive the thread a week after it had been left well alone, and almost a month after the event in question?

When RD told LH to let FA pass for his hot lap in qualifying @ HungaroRing, LH responded to RD by saying, "GO ****ING SWIVEL".

You're aware that was made up by a tabloid, right? There was disagreements over the radio, but what was reported as having been said was made up.

Way it is, RD wasted Alonso time by signing him

As I've said before, Alonso would've known McLaren gave their drivers equal treatment no matter what; McLaren is famous for it. If he didn't know that, then he can't have done much research into a team he was joining for three years.
 
Back