RCA Tunes

Discussion in 'GT4 Tuning' started by nomis3613, Feb 15, 2014.

  1. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Welcome to my brand new tuning garage... for a 10 year-old game which is twice superseded! The garage name is based on those daggy red, white and yellow cables used to connect the trusty old PlayStation 2 to the television. The world might have moved on to the high-def glory of HDMI, but there is still fun to be had here.

    Recently, I've been having great fun re-discovering GT4 and throught I'd share the tunes in case anyone was interested. Tell me what you like about them! Tell me what you don't like! Either way, it'd be great to pick them apart and have some discussion.

    The tunes are mainly for sports tyres, since I find it more fun when the car is sliding around slightly. Also, the priority is balance and driver enjoyment, rather than trying to extract every last tenth of laptime. By testing the tunes at a variety of tracks, I've attempted to create "general purpose" tunes. This is the reason why the gearing might otherwise seem too "tall" at a tighter track. Of course, different tracks have different demands, so I'll mention a track that I think is well suited to each tune.

    Without further ado, here are the tunes:

    Alpine A110
    [​IMG]

    Audi 2001 RS 4
    [​IMG]

    Chevrolet 1969 Corvette L46 350
    [​IMG]

    Lancia Stratos Rally Car
    [​IMG]

    Honda 2003 Integra Type R
    [​IMG]

    Plymouth Super Bird
    [​IMG]

    Suzuki GSX-R/4
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  2. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Honda 2003 Integra Type-R

    [​IMG]

    273 bhp, sports medium tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change
    Rear Wing

    Racing Exhaust
    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Racing Chip
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    Variable LSD
    FC Suspension
    Sports Medium Tyres
    Increase Rigidity

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 10.7 / 11.3
    Ride Height: 115 / 115
    Bound: 5 / 5
    Rebound: 4 / 5
    Camber: 1.3 / 0.8
    Toe: +2 / 0
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 2 / 4

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 5.00
    Auto setting: 11

    1st: 2.67
    2nd: 1.87
    3rd: 1.56
    4th: 1.28
    5th: 1.02
    6th: 0.85

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 13
    LSD Acceleration: 27
    LSD Deceleration: 5

    Aerodynamics
    Downforce: 25 / 5

    Driving Aids
    All off

    Despite the front wheels being responsible for both propulsion and turning, the Integra has plenty of front grip out of the box. So the priority for this tune was making the initial responses more predictable and smoothing out the mid-corner handling. The gearing of 2nd, 3rd and 4th are tight, to keep the wonderful V-TECH engine on the boil. Speaking of the engine, while N/A tuning would have resulted in more power, I felt 270 bhp was "enough" for the chosen tyres. Any more would result in more smoke than extra speed.

    Personally, I've had a blast throwing this Integra around Tsukuba. Hope you do too.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  3. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Audi 2001 RS 4

    [​IMG]

    560 bhp, sports soft tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change
    Rear Wing

    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Turbo Stage 4
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    Variable LSD
    FC Suspension
    Sports Soft Tyres
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Increase Rigidity
    Variable Centre Differential

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 17.3 / 17.3
    Ride Height: 98 / 108
    Bound: 10 / 10
    Rebound: 10 / 10
    Camber: 2.2 / 1.9
    Toe: -2 / -3
    Stabilizers: 4 / 4

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 3 / 7

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 4.200
    Auto setting: 12

    1st: 2.50
    2nd: 1.75
    3rd: 1.32
    4th: 1.10
    5th: 0.91
    6th: 0.75

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 5 / 10
    LSD Acceleration: 45 / 45
    LSD Deceleration: 5 / 5

    Aerodynamics
    Downforce: 30 / 20

    Variable Centre Diff Controller
    VCD 10

    Driving Aids
    All off

    With the default settings, this car is a floppy barge with tonnes of braking and low-speed understeer. About its only redeeming feature is that the nose holds its line when you jump on the power. While developing this tune, I benchmarked (but did not copy, any similarities are coincidence only) Cyborg GT's tune. Despite being tuned for a lower power output (430 bhp), this was much sharper which meant the difference in lap times was less than you would expect. For my own tune, the aim was to be as responsive as Cyborg's, at the higher power level (560 bhp).

    You'll notice the suspension is slammed, with the springs and dampers replaced with rocks! While I usually try to maintain some compliance, in this case it was necessary to keep movement of the two-tonne body under control. Removing the low-speed understeer was also a challenge, in the end the solution was low LSD initial to keep the diffs loose.

    My testing found this tune to be 1.3 seconds faster around Tsukuba than the default settings, a result I'm really proud of. In the end, though, the tune prefers a higher speed track, such as Grand Valley Speedway.

    The RS 4 is a helluva lot of metal to be throwing around, hopefully this tune makes it enjoyable!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  4. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350

    [​IMG]

    536 bhp, sports soft tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change

    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Supercharger
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    Carbon Propshaft
    FC Suspension
    Sports Soft Tyres
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Increase Rigidity

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 11 / 6
    Ride Height: 120 / 120
    Bound: 4 / 2
    Rebound: 5 / 2
    Camber: 1.7 / 1.3
    Toe: 0 / +3
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 5 / 12

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 2.56
    Auto setting: 5

    1st: 3.03
    2nd: 2.10
    3rd: 1.65
    4th: 1.38
    5th: 1.12

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 10
    LSD Acceleration: 25
    LSD Deceleration: 5

    Driving Aids
    All off

    Such a beautiful machine. My challenge was to bring the driving experience up to scratch. With the power of a blown 350 chev being transferred via 1960s cross-ply tyres, traction was always going to be an issue! The stock settings also featured the infamous "California Highway" floaty ride, but that was easily fixed. You'll notice that the ride height was left high and the rear end is relatively soft, both measures to eke out every last ounce of traction. Speaking of California, I think this tune is well suited to the mid- and high-speed nature of Laguna Seca.

    For comparison, I ran a few laps in Muscle Car Garge's tune. This tune makes its power with N/A tuning, which I found to be a handful as it suddenly smoked the tyres when the engine came on cam. So my approach was to use forced induction, as I found it more predictable to live with the threat of instant wheelspin regardless of revs! Muscle Car Garage's tune featured sharper handling responses, something I was keen to replicate.

    With oversteer on demand courtesy of the throttle, I deliberately set the car up a bit loose (eg the rearwards brake bias). My theory is that this avoids a large change in balance when getting on the throttle, as the car is sliding throughout the whole corner. And it certainly keeps life interesting for the driver!
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  5. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Lancia Stratos Rally Car 1977

    [​IMG]

    291 bhp, sports medium tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change

    FC Transmission
    FC Suspension
    Sports Medium Tyres
    Variable LSD

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 10 / 18
    Ride Height: 120 / 120
    Bound: 1 / 1
    Rebound: 1 / 3
    Camber: 1.5 / 1.0
    Toe: -2 / 0
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 3 / 5

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 3.40
    Auto setting: 9

    1st: 2.82
    2nd: 1.91
    3rd: 1.47
    4th: 1.20
    5th: 0.99

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 13
    LSD Acceleration: 20
    LSD Deceleration: 5

    Driving Aids
    All off

    This tune makes the Stratos' identity crisis even worse! After all, it's a track tune for one of the most famous rally cars of all time. Added to the fact that this Lancia's heart and soul is a Ferrari V6, and it's all sounding quite Frankenstein. But actually, it's a glorious combination.

    With the default settings, I found myself dreading releasing the throttle, due to fearsome lift-off oversteer. On the rare occasion I made it to the apex pointing in (roughly) the right direction, a surprising amount of exit understeer resulted. Combined with a "floaty" suspension setup, it was a numb and unpredictable beast. The Mad Finns have published a tune for the Stratos road car, so I plugged in those settings just for interest's sake. These went some way to cure the handling problems, but there was still some way to go in taming the rally car's particular quirks.

    Continuing the car's identity crisis, I actually found the car worked best when tuned as an RR. The rear damper rebound, stiff rear springs and negative front toe are all designed to tame the lift-off oversteer. You may find it strange that the brakes are still rear biased, however I found the entry oversteer to be a suspension effect, completely separate to any tailiness under brakes. So I personally found a slightly loose rear end under brakes to be easier to drive, as it meant less change in balance at turn-in.

    The chassis could probably handle a bit more power. However I could not bear to hang a turbo off the side of the lovely Ferrari V6, so 291 bhp is where it's at. This relatively low power means I've chosen Tsukuba as a track well suited to this tune. The tight nature of Tsukuba means earthmoving horsepower doesn't count for much here. Also, a bumpy track can be a handful due to the twitchy chassis. That's not to say ride compliance has been ignored- Deep Forest was part of the development process for this tune. However a smooth track definitely makes life easier.

    Even the driving experience is confused! This MR (tuned as an RR...) makes most sense when driven as a twitchy FF. With more turn-in than you could ever need, some restraint is needed to coming in sideways. Similarly, the throttle's main effect is to shift weight rearward, so this is actually an RWD where you jump on the gas to straighten the car. The gatuitous "driftu" photo above is a bit misleading. Do not countersteer, the front will bite and you will be spat out backwards! The rear works best when given a long leash, just let it slide and it will work itself out. The chassis is capable of almost anything, you just need to learn to trust it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  6. shotamagee

    shotamagee

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Australia
    Car: Lancia Stratos Rally Car '77
    Circuit: Trial Mountain
    Damn can't get circuit images to work, you'll just have to use your track knowledge to follow.

    Preface: I've already got a the Stratos Rally car sitting in my garage and all I need to do is give it an oil change and it's in test spec.

    Stock Impression; Factory default settings aids @ 000 SM Tyres.

    The car is a handful through the fast opening bends but it's pretty good for the next section of track, as long as you hit your apex's and don't get crazy with the drift through the corners. On to the back straight the stock gearbox is perfect getting close to full rev's in 5th before braking, straight line braking is ok, but if you're to deep or need to adjust the back end will probably step out on you, how much you'll enjoy this car is pretty much dependant on how comfortable you are with a touch of oversteer, as its the quickest way to get around IMO. The next corner is tough any time you can't brake in a straight line you need to compromise, but the following corner allows you to carry good speed in 3rd gear if you set it up right, then the final corner is a bit tricky but as long as you hit the apex's you should be ok.

    Video of my best of first 10 or so laps


    RCA Tune Impression; Settings as per post no 5 above. (nb I can't set 1st gear to 2.82, 2.822 was as low as I could go)

    The rear feels more planted, so it makes the first series of corners feel easier to navigate, however the more planted rear makes it more difficult to throw the rear out and less controllable when you do. The corner entry stability seems to have come at the cost of exit under steer, if you hit the gas with no attitude on the car the nose will wonder, and if you do put it in a slide it feels like it bogs down a bit. The gear ratio's would be better for most tracks, but at Trial Mountain they're a bit long, I only briefly used 5th before braking at the end of the back straight. Straight line braking does feel slightly improved to before but it is a lot better if you're braking zone ie the next corner isn't straight, I felt i could attack that corner (fast right left into slower right hander) as I wanted, even though on my best lap I ran wide here. The next corner was a problem I felt the need to use 2nd and just couldn't set the corner to carry good speed, though once again it does feel better through the last corner even though it's a bit further from it's power band with the adjusted gear box settings.

    Video of my best of first 10 or so laps


    RCA Tune Impression; Settings as per post no 5 above, but with stock gearbox settings.

    I hoped this would be the best of both worlds the lower gearing hopefully allowing me to carry 3rd through the 100kph corners like with the stock settings. This worked sort of. Again this is compared with the stock settings. The car is more accurate through the first corners, you can put the nose where you want and the rear will follow, its a lot more stable on corner entry so you can attack harder, but if you go to deep it is not as easy to just flick the rear out to save you, and you have to be even more careful counter steering if you do, I felt I had to drive it straighter to get the quickest time. You have to use the added stability to set the corner up, because once you get on the throttle the nose just doesn't stay tucked to the apex like before. Overall it's still tricky and I spun just as many times with all the settings, but it is now a lot more tame so it is an easier car to drive especially in the high speed corners (and my lap times were quicker with the new settings), I just feel that some of the original slightly unstable nature is what made this car enjoyable and unique.

    Video of my best of first 10 or so laps


    Sorry you can't see the throttle/brake or the speed / gear's in the replay (and for the general lowish quality), but I use a controller so the brakes / throttle are either full on or off, and you should be able to figure out which gear I'm in most of the time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014
  7. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Hi Shotamagee, many thanks for the wonderfully detailed review.

    Wow, you sure throw the car in hard on turn-in! I can see how this tune lacks the throttle-steer required to hold your slides post-apex. Glad to hear you found the entry stability improved. Indeed, I wondered how much to "neuter" the wild oversteer that's arguably part of the character of this car.

    Good point about the gearing, indeed it is too tall for this power level. I will revise this sometime soon.

    Again, many thanks for the review.
     
  8. BobK

    BobK Premium

    Messages:
    6,936
    Wow, @shotamagee, great review there!

    A question for @nomis3613 here, what track are you tuning for? It's really an important part of any tune, especially for the gearing; you'd hardly use the same gearing on Opera Paris and the Sarthe for instance. Similarly for the suspension, I'd use different setups on Grand Valley and El Capitan. So it's really difficult to evaluate a tune without knowing what track it's intended for.
     
  9. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Hi Bob,
    The aim is to make "general purpose" tunes, so I've tested them at a range of tracks. Like you say, though, different tracks require different different settings, so I'll add some stuff about which track particularly suits the tune.

    For the gearing, I've erred on the tall (top speed) side, so you're not bouncing off the limiter if the track has a long straight. So it would ideally be a bit shorter for tighter tracks.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
  10. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Suzuki GSX-R/4

    [​IMG]

    253 bhp, sports medium tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change

    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Racing Chip
    NA Tune Stage 2
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    FC Suspension
    Sports Medium Tyres
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Increase Rigidity

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 9.2 / 7.2
    Ride Height: 89 / 89
    Bound: 5 / 5
    Rebound: 5 / 5
    Camber: 2.0 / 1.3
    Toe: 0 / 0
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 3 / 6

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 5.00

    1st: 3.52
    2nd: 2.45
    3rd: 1.91
    4th: 1.59
    5th: 1.33
    6th: 1.10

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 10
    LSD Acceleration: 30
    LSD Deceleration: 20

    Driving Aids
    All off

    There are quite a few similarities between this tune and the default settings. This is because the default settings work pretty well, so these settings are more about fine tuning than making any major changes. It is wonderfully chuckable at any speed, I had great fun ringing its neck around SSR5. The springs are deliberately a touch soft, because the chassis is quite twitchy regardless.

    The reason for the minimal downforce is that its much more fun to slide it around, however a small amount was needed to stop the nose pushing wide in faster sweepers (such as SSR5's last corner).
     
  11. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Alpine A110

    [​IMG]

    265 bhp, sports hard tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change

    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Racing Exhaust
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Racing Chip
    Turbocharger Stage 2
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    Variable LSD
    FC Suspension
    Sports Hard Tyres
    Weight Reduction Stage 3
    Increase Rigidity

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 10 / 14
    Ride Height: 100 / 100
    Bound: 6 / 6
    Rebound: 4 / 6
    Camber: 1.5 / 0.8
    Toe: +2 / -2
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 4 / 16

    Transmission
    Final Gear: 2.99

    1st: 3.24
    2nd: 2.32
    3rd: 1.89
    4th: 1.54
    5th: 1.28
    6th: 1.08

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 5
    LSD Acceleration: 15
    LSD Deceleration: 5

    Driving Aids
    All off

    As you might have guessed from my avatar, I'm a big fan of the A110. However, I'm not completely happy with how this drives.

    The main improvement over the default settings is the rear is much better planted, with less pendulum effect than the default settings. However, the front end remains lethargic to respond. It seems one must choose between either delayed steering response or a lack of mid-corner bite. While the brakes aren't very powerful, they seem to cope fine with the very high rear bias that I've used to provoke a bit more turn-in.

    Low grip tyres are used, because I felt that the handling just got more quirky with extra grip. The nominated track for this tune is Infeon Stock Car Course, due to the smoothness of the surface and the flow through the first 4 corners. Beware, though, it is a handful through the high speed switchbacks.

    What do you think of it? Any idea how to fix it??
     
  12. nomis3613

    nomis3613 Premium

    Messages:
    831
    Plymouth Super Bird

    [​IMG]

    569 bhp, sports soft tyres
    PARTS:
    Oil Change

    Racing Brakes
    Brake Balance Controller
    Racing Exhaust
    Port Polish
    Engine Balancing
    Racing Chip
    NA Tune Stage 1
    FC Transmission
    Triple-plate Clutch
    Racing Flywheel
    Variable LSD
    Lightweight Propellor Shaft
    FC Suspension
    Sports Soft Tyres
    Increase Rigidity

    SETTINGS:
    Suspension

    Spring Rate: 10 / 10
    Ride Height: 140 / 140
    Bound: 3 / 3
    Rebound: 3 / 3
    Camber: 1.5 / 1.0
    Toe: -1 / -2
    Stabilizers: 1 / 1

    Brakes
    Brake Balance: 2 / 7

    Transmission
    Auto Setting: 10
    Final Gear: 3.08

    1st: 2.73
    2nd: 1.91
    3rd: 1.53
    4th: 1.29
    5th: 1.08
    6th: 0.91

    LSD
    Initial Torque: 15
    LSD Acceleration: 30
    LSD Deceleration: 5

    Driving Aids
    All off

    Weight Balance
    Ballast: 50
    Location: +50

    With a ridiculous rear wing and equally inappropriate power output, the Plymouth Super Bird is a muscle car icon. Such is the fury of the 7 litre V8, I wasn't game to go much further than a mild cam upgrade.

    Yes, you'll notice I've resorted to ballast. I tried everything possible to avoid it, but all other approaches led to some pretty nasty compromises. This was all in the name of taming the mid-corner understeer. With the default settings, I found the driving experience very dull. Up until the apex, it was waiting until the understeer had scrubbed off enough speed to make the turn; then the exit was just patiently applying throttle to avoid sudden wheelspin. It still throws in the towel if you ask too much at corner entry, but it is nicely balanced if you are gentle. On the way out, I find the rear wonderfully predictable now- it progressively loses grip and is nicely steerable on the throttle.

    Strangely, I found the tune works well at Seattle and Tsukuba. Lucklily, these low grip tracks have juuuust enough traction to accelerate out of the corners. Also, the toe settings (to reduce understeer in slower corners) work against it when you're in the top two gears. It is also quite stable over the bumps, thanks to being bigger (and heavier) than Texas.