Real Guns

[Brett]

One of the two things I ordered came in today and I picked it up on my way back from a meeting. I also ordered a replacement safety for the 590A1 and it is supposed to be waiting for me when I get home. Another thing I ordered for my Tavor came in earlier this week or late last week.

 

[Brett]

One of the two things I ordered came in today and I picked it up on my way back from a meeting. I also ordered a replacement safety for the 590A1 and it is supposed to be waiting for me when I get home. Another thing I ordered for my Tavor came in earlier this week or late last week.

Let's start off with the Tavor. Here is the overall on the right side with everything so far.

Prior to the latest addition, I had added the Aimpoint Pro on top, Geissele trigger pack, and Geissele trigger bow. My next additions were the ambidextrous safety and a replacement weak side ejection port cover (not visible in the above or below pictures).

The latest addition to the rifle is the curved buttpad.

The curved buttpad maintains the same overall length of the factory buttbad, but because of the curve fits better to the shoulder and reduces the length of pull of the rifle. My initial impression of the curved buttpad is positive.

Now to the replacement Mossberg 590A1 safety. I was planning on installing the thing tonight, but because of the safety screw Mossberg installed, the process is not going to be quite as easy as I thought it would. So here is a picture of the replacement safety that I will eventually install instead:

And last, but not least. Here is one of the two things I ordered and the one that arrived today:

 

[Obelisk]

Gotta love having an AR-15. They're one of the biggest platforms short of an AK - you can find bits and pieces everywhere.

 

[Brett]

Gotta love having an AR-15. They're one of the biggest platforms short of an AK - you can find bits and pieces everywhere.

I finally bit the bullet and got one. I need to pick up a rear sight and I will be good to go for the time being. I finally decided to just start with a basic one for the first and then build one later.

 

[Obelisk]

I finally bit the bullet and got one. I need to pick up a rear sight and I will be good to go for the time being. I finally decided to just start with a basic one for the first and then build one later.

Can't go wrong with the classic carry handle.

 

[Brett]

Can't go wrong with the classic carry handle.

I have thought about it. I will probably end up with a Magpul rear sight.

 

[Brett]

Let's start off with the Tavor. Here is the overall on the right side with everything so far.

Prior to the latest addition, I had added the Aimpoint Pro on top, Geissele trigger pack, and Geissele trigger bow. My next additions were the ambidextrous safety and a replacement weak side ejection port cover (not visible in the above or below pictures).

The latest addition to the rifle is the curved buttpad.

The curved buttpad maintains the same overall length of the factory buttbad, but because of the curve fits better to the shoulder and reduces the length of pull of the rifle. My initial impression of the curved buttpad is positive.

Now to the replacement Mossberg 590A1 safety. I was planning on installing the thing tonight, but because of the safety screw Mossberg installed, the process is not going to be quite as easy as I thought it would. So here is a picture of the replacement safety that I will eventually install instead:

And last, but not least. Here is one of the two things I ordered and the one that arrived today:

Follow up with the Tavor and AR next to each other:

I also no longer have the Walther PPQ or HK VP9. I traded them towards another pistol. No pictures of it yet.

 

[Obelisk]

Follow up with the Tavor and AR next to each other:

I also no longer have the Walther or VP9. I traded them towards another pistol. No pictures of it yet.

Cool stuff!

Everyone in here: Don't ever reload a gun like this:

 

[prousonhairy]

Follow up with the Tavor and AR next to each other:

I also no longer have the Walther PPQ or HK VP9. I traded them towards another pistol. No pictures of it yet.

What kind of pistol are you getting, or is it a surprise? A friend of mine just ordered a Kimber Warrior 1911. I'm definitely leaning towards an HK45 or HKusp.

 

[Brett]

What kind of pistol are you getting, or is it a surprise? A friend of mine just ordered a Kimber Warrior 1911. I'm definitely leaning towards an HK45 or HKusp.

It is a CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow Target II from CZ Custom. The name is a mouthful.

 

[Obelisk]

Call it a CZ75SP01STII

Or just a 75 Shadow?

 

[prousonhairy]

It is a CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow Target II from CZ Custom. The name is a mouthful.

Wow, I see why you had to sell your other handguns, that's pricey. It looks really cool though. I bet I shoots like a dream.

 

[Brett]

Wow, I see why you had to sell your other handguns, that's pricey. It looks really cool though. I bet I shoots like a dream.

I was looking at getting a CZ 75 SP01 or SP01 Tactical. The way I looked at it was if I get one of those I am going to be out that much money. If I trade both of mine towards the Shadow Target II, then I will be out roughly the same amount of cash, but get a highly upgraded version of either the SP01 or SP01 Tactical. The other way I was looking at it is I do not really need three 9mm pistols either (though that does not mean I do not want three, just not going to be able to shoot three a bunch).

However, I am still interested in the upcoming CZ P10C whenever they finally make it to shelves. I may be more interested in a Glock now too. I picked up a Gen 4 while I was looking at the Shadow. The changes Glock made with the Gen 4 were changes for the better in terms of hand feel for my hands. The trigger is not great out of the box, but that can be fixed through the aftermarket.

Back on the topic of the Shadow, I am really looking forward to shooting this thing. The trigger is fantastic, in both double and single action. The pistol feels wonderful in the hand. The sights are crisp and look like they are going to be easy to pick up. The magazines are mostly reasonably priced.

 

[Omnis]

Can't go wrong with a Shadow, I guess. Never handled one, but the Shadow 2 looks amazing. Probably has yet to make it to shelves like the P10C, however.

 

[Brett]

Can't go wrong with a Shadow, I guess. Never handled one, but the Shadow 2 looks amazing. Probably has yet to make it to shelves like the P10C, however.

Especially a Shadow that has been warmed over by CZ Custom. I have seen a few pictures of the Shadow 2 in the wild, but there are probably not a whole lot of them around. Just gave CZ's Facebook page a look and they are expecting the P10C in late April. We will see if that actually happens.

 

[Brett]

I have made a trip out to the range the last three days. I fired 300 through the CZ. I had some issues with it, but it was not due to the pistol. It was operator error. I was not used to having an external safety on a pistol. During recoil, my thumb would slightly engage the safety and I would get a dead trigger. Once I figured out that was my problem, the pistol performed flawlessly and can easily out shoot my abilities.

I also shot 650 rounds through the Ruger 10/22. That thing is just a whole lot of fun. Between the very dirty Remington Golden Bullets and having not cleaned the 25 round magazines, I started to have some feeding issues. The rifle and magazines really need a cleaning. I am fairly certain a good cleaning of both the rifle and magazines will solve the few issues.

I also put 300 rounds through the Ruger Mark IV. Another awesome product from Ruger. I am very happy with the Mark IV. My only complaint with the pistol is that it comes with just two magazines. Twenty rounds are gone in no time at all. I will be buying some more for it soon.

 

[High-Test]

Your 10/22 should be fine. Mine turned out to be one of the unicorn models - a bad one. They take a whole lot of breaking in and should be foolproof.

 

[Brett]

Your 10/22 should be fine. Mine turned out to be one of the unicorn models - a bad one. They take a whole lot of breaking in and should be foolproof.

I have not had any real problems with it, outside of yesterday. The magazines are likely filthy because each of them have probably had around 500 rounds through them without cleaning. I put some rounds through the ten round magazine that came with the gun and had no problems.

 

[stonesfan129]

I have shot one magazine through a HK45. I really liked the thing based on one magazine, though that does not really say much at all. I like my VP9 if that helps at all (it probably does not).

You might look into a more budget 1911 to start out with and then step up to something bigger when you have a better idea on what you want. It is probably what I will end up doing once I get a 1911.

However, now I have shifted my focused to the CZ 75 and all of it variants.

The only downside of an HK is that the paddle magazine release takes some getting used to. I'm not sure now, but when HK was still making the Mark 23 and the USP, you pretty much had to use all HK-made parts with it and it was very expensive.

As for the 1911, do not listen to the people that say they suck. Get good magazines, good ammo and take care of it and it will work.

The real only difference between the cheap 1911s and expensive 1911s is that the cheap ones usually have cast frames and more MIM parts.

All that being said, if you want something cheap that you can beat the crap out of, it's pretty hard to beat a Glock.

 

[High-Test]

I had a cheap 1911. Never had an issue with it. Then again, it didn't matter if I fired 50 or 300 in an outing. It got cleaned and oiled.

Also, I tended to take it apart often anyways to figure out the right spot for the disassembly pin.

 

[Michael88]

Speaking of the Tavor:

 

[Brett]

Speaking of the Tavor:

Not too surprising, I have watched a number of their mud test videos and I think the only one, at least of the videos I have watched, to do really well in it has been the AR-15.

 

[Michael88]

Not too surprising, I have watched a number of their mud test videos and I think the only one, at least of the videos I have watched, to do really well in it has been the AR-15.

The Mauser 98 also did really well (DUH), and so did the HK G3 and interestingly the MAS 49/56. I'm no H&K fan but besides the AR the G3 did best.

Though to be fair, that mud test is a very extreme scenario rarely encountered in real life outside World War 1 trench scenarios.

 

[Brett]

I would need to be in much better shape.

 

[prousonhairy]

Missouri is a cool state to own guns in. Last year we became a Constitutional Carry State, which means we don't need a C&C permit anymore. I saw this on the news the other day and found it interesting:

Proposed bill would punish 'gun free zone' businesses if shooting occurs
http://via.fox2now.com/xRuI1

Basically if this law passes, businesses that ban guns would be held accountable, if someone got injured and would of been able to defend themselves with a gun.

I don't know if it will pass or not, and if it does hopefully that situation would never come up where that law would have to be enforced.

Going to shoot my Benelli this afternoon, and I've pretty much settled on my next gun being an HK45 Tactical. I just don't know when I'll buy it yet. 👍

 

[Brett]

Missouri is a cool state to own guns in. Last year we became a Constitutional Carry State, which means we don't need a C&C permit anymore. I saw this on the news the other day and found it interesting:

Proposed bill would punish 'gun free zone' businesses if shooting occurs
http://via.fox2now.com/xRuI1

Basically if this law passes, businesses that ban guns would be held accountable, if someone got injured and would of been able to defend themselves with a gun.

I don't know if it will pass or not, and if it does hopefully that situation would never come up where that law would have to be enforced.

Going to shoot my Benelli this afternoon, and I've pretty much settled on my next gun being an HK45 Tactical. I just don't know when I'll buy it yet. 👍

A Benelli M4 and soon to be a HK 45 Tactical, you sure do hate money! Not that I really have any room to talk.

 

[prousonhairy]

A Benelli M4 and soon to be a HK 45 Tactical, you sure do hate money! Not that I really have any room to talk.

There's a guy I work with, he has 40+ guns, he thinks I'm crazy. He'd rather buy 3-4 guns instead of buying a $1000-$2000 gun. I don't need 20+ guns, I just want a few. But the guns I do buy are going to be top notch. 👍

Edit: a clothes basket works pretty handy for toting around a bunch of shotgun shells:

 

[Michael88]

There's a guy I work with, he has 40+ guns, he thinks I'm crazy. He'd rather buy 3-4 guns instead of buying a $1000-$2000 gun. I don't need 20+ guns, I just want a few. But the guns I do buy are going to be top notch.

Well, it depends on what he is into exactly. If he is collecting surplus rifles it make sense to own a lot of them, and they all can be top notch despite not being 2000$ guns.

Also in the world of firearms expensive does not equal quality, for example there is many Russian shotguns for 500-600 bucks that can rival 2000$ ''quality'' European made shotguns. And if we dip into the surplus rifle area things get even crazier, some of the general service rifles that were manufactured around the turn of the century and a little bit later contain hand fitted parts and the fit and finish and metallurgy is often better than what is found in the very top notchiest guns that are made today.

Labor costs and machining have skyrocketed so hard in the past 100 years that its nearly impossible to think about mass producing those old rifles. The costs would be absolutely astronomical. Even the most expensive replicas of old guns like top notch lever rifles running for 2000-3000 bucks cannot be compared with the originals.
I've had the pleasure to handle some really old originals and they totally surpass the level of quality we're used to today.

If you want to enjoy a crazy amount of quality without having to buy a modern gun for several grands you can still get it. I recommended South American Mauser rifles, they run for 450-600 bucks and are known to be the highest quality service rifles ever made - and the best thing is they're usually in very good shape.
Next time you are in the gun store handle one of those if you find one, and you'll understand.

The Peruvian Mauser 1909 is a fine example:

Even the crests are a work of art. Nowadays all you see is some ugly electro-pencil writing son the receiver, back in the day marks and crests looked like this:

Or this:

 

[Obelisk]

Aren't most AK copies dirt-cheap and nigh-unkillable?

(I've shot an AK. A bit of heft but they're lovely)

 

[prousonhairy]

Well, it depends on what he is into exactly. If he is collecting surplus rifles it make sense to own a lot of them, and they all can be top notch despite not being 2000$ guns.

Also in the world of firearms expensive does not equal quality, for example there is many Russian shotguns for 500-600 bucks that can rival 2000$ ''quality'' European made shotguns. And if we dip into the surplus rifle area things get even crazier, some of the general service rifles that were manufactured around the turn of the century and a little bit later contain hand fitted parts and the fit and finish and metallurgy is often better than what is found in the very top notchiest guns that are made today.

Labor costs and machining have skyrocketed so hard in the past 100 years that its nearly impossible to think about mass producing those old rifles. The costs would be absolutely astronomical. Even the most expensive replicas of old guns like top notch lever rifles running for 2000-3000 bucks cannot be compared with the originals.
I've had the pleasure to handle some really old originals and they totally surpass the level of quality we're used to today.

If you want to enjoy a crazy amount of quality without having to buy a modern gun for several grands you can still get it. I recommended South American Mauser rifles, they run for 450-600 bucks and are known to be the highest quality service rifles ever made - and the best thing is they're usually in very good shape.
Next time you are in the gun store handle one of those if you find one, and you'll understand.

The Peruvian Mauser 1909 is a fine example:

Even the crests are a work of art. Nowadays all you see is some ugly electro-pencil writing son the receiver, back in the day marks and crests looked like this:

I get what your saying, and I'm not saying that money necessarily equals quality, nor do I just look at the most expensive guns when I want to buy one. I research a bunch online, and ask people on gun forums etc. I read a lot on what I want to buy, before I buy it and the pros and cons etc, and what would be something comeparable to it.

In a way I get this from my Father, my Father is pretty cheap about buying things. So instead of spending a little more on something nicer, he gets the cheaper item and it usually costs more in the long run, because it doesn't last near as long.

Those Mauser rifles do look nice! I'll have to look into them and read more on them. I need to find a range where I can shoot rifles, I really don't have a great area for shooting long range at my house.

My friend at work, he just wants a lot of guns lol. He does make money of flipping them though, pretty good money. He will find a guy going through a divorce or hard times, and buy his guns for dirt cheap. Turn around and sell them and make a great profit. He usually then takes the profit he makes and buys himself a gun, or sometimes will keep one he wants instead of selling it.

I do know that sometimes you pay more for a name, (Benelli or Heckler and Koch for example), but as long as that comes with a great track record of dependability, reliability, and performance, I'm ok with that. 👍

Speaking of dependability, this is the kind of results that HK45 gets when it comes to reliability.

http://pistol-training.com/archives/4027