Real Guns

[Blood Eagle]

I initially thought sabotaged round because it’s been done since Vietnam where we used to put explosive rounds into Viet Cong ammunition supplies. Would explode and not only render the weapon useless and injure or kill the operator but also created distrust between them and who was supplying them ammunition. Was called “salting”. It’s still done today by others. So like said, I wouldn’t trust a lot of bulk ammo with questionable origins. Especially on a .50 BMG. Nowadays we basically bug insurgent ammo and mortar supplies with tracking devices to locate where they stockpile them so we can blow up the safe houses and storage areas. Either way glad he survived.

 

[Xavier2342]

Have any of you seen one of these before?

I initially thought sabotaged round because it’s been done since Vietnam where we used to put explosive rounds into Viet Cong ammunition supplies. Would explode and not only render the weapon useless and injure or kill the operator but also created distrust between them and who was supplying them ammunition. Was called “salting”. It’s still done today by others. So like said, I wouldn’t trust a lot of bulk ammo with questionable origins. Especially on a .50 BMG. Nowadays we basically bug insurgent ammo and mortar supplies with tracking devices to locate where they stockpile them so we can blow up the safe houses and storage areas. Either way glad he survived.

I just learned something new today.

 

[Michael88]

Just found out that our police and special forces get new ammunition for their guns chambered in 9mm. They ordered a couple million rounds of #4 and #5, lead-free very lightweight and fast rounds.

Formerly, the standard round was 124 grain soft point with pretty abysmal performance (overpenetration, no expansion), requests to get good expansive ammunition like HP were denied until now due to political reasons.

 

[Michael88]

Went to the gun store for some ammo aaand..... saw a new .22lr rifle made by Norinco, cheap Chinese rifle but with a reputation of decent accuracy and extreme ruggedness. And I had no 22. For just 230 bucks I could not pass it up. It even has a threaded muzzle, the magazine is 9 rounds and heavy duty steel and the barrel is 24'' which means subsonics will be REALLY quiet.

First thing I did was rework the barrel channel so the barrel is free floated now and not touching anything, next thing I did was install and old scope I had laying around.

Ta-daa!

But something was missing, and if you guys know me...

AHA! Much better. A proper rifle sling makes all the difference!

 

[Xavier2342]

Guys I finally got one... I have always wanted one of these, but I was discouraged by asking price of this particular firearm at local gun shows. Several years ago, I was having a conversation about the M1 Garand with my FFL dealer who is a Vietnam veteran. During our conversation he recommended that I get the M1A/M14 instead since I could purchase one brand new as opposed to an older military surplus rifle. Over the years I have been to shoot a M1 Garand on two occasions, thanks to other gun owners allowing me to shoot theirs. Approximately two or so years ago I found out about the Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP).

The CMP is an organization that promotes gun safety and marksmanship for U.S. citizens. They offer classes and host competitions for various disciplines throughout the US. But more importantly, they receive former US military arsenals from the US government that include: M1 Carbine, M1 Garand, 1911 pistol and a few other non-select fire military surplus rifles. Once they receive these firearms they clean, repair and sell these firearms to US citizens.

Several months ago I submitted my paperwork to the CMP for a service grade, WW2 era M1 Garand. Initially I wanted one of their special grade M1 Garands because these come with a new barrel and wood stock. I just wanted something that I could shoot and still preserve the history of, but they were listed as out stock on CMP's website. It was supposed to take 4 to 6 weeks for CMP to confirm my order and approximately 6 to 8 weeks to deliver my M1 Garand. But due to being shutdown for 7 weeks because of Covid, this entire process much longer. 2 months go by and I try contacting them but I am not able to speak to anyone. Another month goes by, same thing happens. I call, wait on hold for 30 mins and still don't get to speak to anyone. So I finally decided to send them an email and got a response the following day. In the response the lady apologized for the delay and informed me that they had just started working on orders that were submitted in February. Bear in mind this was in May. Three weeks later I receive a text from a 5 digit phone number informing about a package being delivered the next day that requires the signature of an adult. I immediately thought it was spam and didn't bother to click the link in the text because I wasn't expecting anything (at that time) from Fedex that required a signature. The next day I get back home from grocery shopping and my wife tells me that I received a package from Fedex which she had to sign for. In my hallway I see this huge box, I look at the shipment labels to see what it is, then I suddenly realize... I finally got my rifle. So I quickly put all the groceries away because it is over 100 °F (37.7 °C) outside, don't want anything to spoil.

Spoiler

The gun has parts with different serial numbers on them. But the most important serial number to me is the one on the receiver. Based upon this serial number on the receiver, this particular part of this rifle was originally built by Springfield Armory in November 1943. The barrel was also built by Springfield Armory in September 1951. Based upon the cartouches I found on the stock, the stock was built by Winchester Repeating Arms Company and belongs to a rifle that was built sometime between May 1943 and end of production. I'm still trying to figure out when the rest of the parts were built. I have already cleaned and lubed the gun. I will be ordering some M1 Garand specific ammo and I can't wait to go to the range.

 

[Brett]

@Xavier2342 Nice! I really need to take the time and order one.

 

[Xavier2342]

@Xavier2342 Nice! I really need to take the time and order one.

Thank you. You should definitely order one. The hardest part is the waiting period. Here is a link to the video I used to help me out with ordering mine.



https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/

 

[Michael88]

@Xavier2342

Very nice, the M1 has always been one of my favorite rifles. Yours looks like its in really nice condition you gonna have some fun for sure.

Are you planning on installing an adjustable gas plug or will you stick to shooting military spec 06 ball?

The hardest part is the waiting period.

Ain't that the truth, I'm waiting for a gun right now and its pure torture, especially since shipping has been delayed and I have to wait an additional 7 days.

 

[Obelisk]

I might apply for an M1 myself, but the priority is getting carry guns for my dad and I. The current discussion is on 9mm revolvers, since we're both going to want to avoid reliability issues if we get forced to buy trash/cheap 9mm rounds. Haven't found anything particular interesting but there's a Ruger I've seen in a few lists that looks nice.

 

[Xavier2342]

@Xavier2342

Very nice, the M1 has always been one of my favorite rifles. Yours looks like its in really nice condition you gonna have some fun for sure.

Are you planning on installing an adjustable gas plug or will you stick to shooting military spec 06 ball?


Ain't that the truth, I'm waiting for a gun right now and its pure torture, especially since shipping has been delayed and I have to wait an additional 7 days. 🤔

Thanks @Michael88 you read my mind. I do plan on purchasing a Schuster adjustable gas plug. I was able to find a M1 Garand spec ammo. But I still want an adjustable gas plug when all I can find is commercial ammo.

What gun are you currently waiting for?

I might apply for an M1 myself, but the priority is getting carry guns for my dad and I. The current discussion is on 9mm revolvers, since we're both going to want to avoid reliability issues if we get forced to buy trash/cheap 9mm rounds. Haven't found anything particular interesting but there's a Ruger I've seen in a few lists that looks nice.

I don't blame you, I was in a similar situation several years ago. In regards to shooting trash ammo through revolvers have you guys had any luck with shooting steel cased ammo? Also, have you guys considered getting a conceal carry size revolver that shoots 38 special and 357 magnum or are you guys deadset on 9mm?

 

[Obelisk]

Thanks @Michael88 you read my mind. I do plan on purchasing a Schuster adjustable gas plug. I was able to find a M1 Garand spec ammo. But I still want an adjustable gas plug when all I can find is commercial ammo.

What gun are you currently waiting for?

I don't blame you, I was in a similar situation several years ago. In regards to shooting trash ammo through revolvers have you guys had any luck with shooting steel cased ammo? Also, have you guys considered getting a conceal carry size revolver that shoots 38 special and 357 magnum or are you guys deadset on 9mm?

As far as I know, 9mm seems to be the best option for us. We're still a long way out from actually getting any range time, let alone establishing what kind of guns we'd go for. It's all on-paper, theoretical stuff at the moment. We do have a couple of classes happening soon that'll give both my dad and I approximate ideas on what we'd want.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

I broke down and bought this guy- a Smith and Wesson M&P 15 Sport II. I wasn't really planning on picking up a gun yet, but the local shop had a bunch that were leaving them as quickly as they arrived. Still need to buy some ammo (they were out the day I bought it) and another mag or two and figure out who to contact at the local range and become a member of it. Then let her eat.

I also got to talk to my brother in law and set up a range date. Last time I shot, I used his 9mm Taurus (sucked with it), a 22 LR rifle and a 20 guage shotgun. The 20 gauge was easier to shoot than I thought it would be. I'd like to try a 12 soon so I could add a shotgun to my list. I limped the pistol bad and want another go with it since I'd like to get a CPL in the future.

 

[Xavier2342]

@AnthonyD1993 congratulations you've got yourself a good rifle. Are you planning in using iron sights, red dot sight or scope? Whenever you decide to order stuff for you AR, checkout Opticsplanet.com and use discount code "Honestoutlaw" for 5% off your purchase. Lastly, don't worry about not doing so well with a handgun first time around. You'll do better with a little more practice.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

@AnthonyD1993 congratulations you've got yourself a good rifle. Are you planning in using iron sights, red dot sight or scope? Whenever you decide to order stuff for you AR, checkout Opticsplanet.com and use discount code "Honestoutlaw" for 5% off your purchase. Lastly, don't worry about not doing so well with a handgun first time around. You'll do better with a little more practice.

Later, I'll probably buy a red dot sight. For now, I'll stick with irons. I already am aware of the optics rabbit hole since everyone I know has a different sight on their gun. 😅 I figure the sight can come later, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll need to learn the irons anyway regardless of whether or not I buy a red dot.

 

[Michael88]

Later, I'll probably buy a red dot sight. For now, I'll stick with irons. I already am aware of the optics rabbit hole since everyone I know has a different sight on their gun. 😅 I figure the sight can come later, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll need to learn the irons anyway regardless of whether or not I buy a red dot.

Indeed you do! Being able to shoot with irons is a fundamental skill, and if you can shoot irons well you'll have an easy time using optics, but not vice versa. Sadly, many people nowadays go straight to optics and never learn iron sights and suck hard when they eventually have to use it.

Have fun with your new gun, AR-15s are easy to shoot, accurate, effective and just so much fun! I love em.- 😊

What gun are you currently waiting for?

A Norinco 1911! I have not given up my quest of getting a functioning .45 ACP pistol. 😄 Norinco not because of the relatively low price but because I have my friends who own one and they just WORK.

.45ACP is my favorite pistol caliber by far, sadly the two 45 pistols I owned, a RIA 1911 and a CZ97b were total jam-o-matics despite me and a very experienced gunsmith trying our best to get them to work with magazines, polishing, springs, reloads etc.

I already got me grip panels from Pachmayr! 😁

 

[Xavier2342]

Later, I'll probably buy a red dot sight. For now, I'll stick with irons. I already am aware of the optics rabbit hole since everyone I know has a different sight on their gun. 😅 I figure the sight can come later, but as far as I'm concerned, I'll need to learn the irons anyway regardless of whether or not I buy a red dot.

Smart man... In the past I felt like the topic of optics was heavily influenced by the military. But truly believe a shift has occurred and the topic is now based upon what competitive shooters use to engage multiple targets set at various distances in one shooting stage. Without a doubt you're going about this the right way by learning how to use front sights first. Although it is an old video, there is some good information it.

Indeed you do! Being able to shoot with irons is a fundamental skill, and if you can shoot irons well you'll have an easy time using optics, but not vice versa. Sadly, many people nowadays go straight to optics and never learn iron sights and suck hard when they eventually have to use it.

Have fun with your new gun, AR-15s are easy to shoot, accurate, effective and just so much fun! I love em.- 😊

A Norinco 1911! I have not given up my quest of getting a functioning .45 ACP pistol. 😄 Norinco not because of the relatively low price but because I have my friends who own one and they just WORK.

.45ACP is my favorite pistol caliber by far, sadly the two 45 pistols I owned, a RIA 1911 and a CZ97b were total jam-o-matics despite me and a very experienced gunsmith trying our best to get them to work with magazines, polishing, springs, reloads etc.

I already got me grip panels from Pachmayr! 😁

I saw the grips when you posted them in another thread. I don't know much about Norinco 1911 series but I truly hope everything goes well with this 45.

 

[a6m5]

Wow. Just so frigging pretty. 😍 Congratulations!

The current discussion is on 9mm revolvers, since we're both going to want to avoid reliability issues if we get forced to buy trash/cheap 9mm rounds.

I'm in process of trying to obtain a concealed carry permit & when I'm finally able to carry, I plan on using only high quality defensive/JHP ammo. I think for 9mm, they are typically $25, $30 for 20, 30 round boxes? I already do this with home defense guns.

Plinking & target practicing, I use the cheap range ammo, but for defensive purposes, I try to load the magazines with the good ammo. Of course, downside is you could afford to practice very little with it due to cost. Just my 2 cents.

M&P 15 Sport II

I second @Xavier2342 , I really like this rifle, too. I bought mine in '18 & I've had such a great time with it. Part of the fun was adding different furnitures(stocks, handguards, etc.), but I also made some mistakes in that department, especially in building sling for it. I eventually got Daniel Defense upper for this rifle with gift card I received(DD upper cost twice as much as the whole M&P 15). Then recently, I ordered cheap lower from PSA for the Daniel Defense upper, so I can put the M&P 15 upper & lower back together & have myself two AR-15's. 😈 You are going to have so much fun with it! 👍

Norinco 1911!

I'm surprised to hear how reliable you say it is!(👍) Same time, really sorry to hear that RIA & your CZ didn't work properly. I do remember when you were trying to get that RIA 1911 to run right(such a sweet gun!). I feel lucky with my Kimber now. That gun jammed in the beginning, but immediately I got new magazines, replaced recoil spring & had shot perfectly until just recently. I bought Kimber factory high-cap magazine? I'm having a senior moment right now, but I think the problem I had with it was that it wouldn't lock open after the last round. But it's only with this high capacity magazine(10rd). With other Kimber 7 or 8 round magazines, it's been flawless for many years. Looking forward to the review on Norinco. Sounds promising.

 

[Michael88]

I'm surprised to hear how reliable you say it is!(👍) Same time, really sorry to hear that RIA & your CZ didn't work properly. I do remember when you were trying to get that RIA 1911 to run right(such a sweet gun!). I feel lucky with my Kimber now. That gun jammed in the beginning, but immediately I got new magazines, replaced recoil spring & had shot perfectly until just recently. I bought Kimber factory high-cap magazine? I'm having a senior moment right now, but I think the problem I had with it was that it wouldn't lock open after the last round. But it's only with this high capacity magazine(10rd). With other Kimber 7 or 8 round magazines, it's been flawless for many years. Looking forward to the review on Norinco. Sounds promising.

Hey man, where have you been! Yeah your Kimber sounds like a total keeper, never sell it!

Yeah the .45 CZ97 didn't work out either, swapped springs, polished feed ramp and throat, swapped slide stops, swapped mags, tried ALL kinds of ammo - nothing worked. Always got this weird malfunction every 5 or so shots. ☹️

As for 1911 10 rounders, I got me one 10 round mag from triple K, I'll let you know how well it works once I'm testing my 1911. The rest I got is Mec-Gar 8 round magazines, they're supposedly among the best mags.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah the .45 CZ97 didn't work out either, swapped springs, polished feed ramp and throat, swapped slide stops, swapped mags, tried ALL kinds of ammo - nothing worked. Always got this weird malfunction every 5 or so shots.

From CZ that's very surprising. They have such a solid reputation. 😬 I hope Norinco come through for you, two duds in a row's bit much.

As for 1911 10 rounders, I got me one 10 round mag from triple K, I'll let you know how well it works once I'm testing my 1911. The rest I got is Mec-Gar 8 round magazines, they're supposedly among the best mags.

Yeah, let me know. Mec Gar I have for P226 and they work perfectly. I read that they also produce factory mags for many different manufacturers.

 

[Michael88]

Had a great day at the shooting range, shooting my K1911. Love shooting 50 meters standing unsupported. Whats your favorite shooting position?

 

[Xavier2342]

@a6m5 it is good to see you post again. How are things going with obtaining your conceal carry permit? Are you required to register the gun you intend on carrying concealed? Thanks for the complement about my M1 Garand. The gun isn't flawless but I love it just the way it is. The only thing I will be changing on the gun is the gas plug when I can't find any M1 Garand specific ammo. I'm thinking about purchasing a period correct bayonet for this rifle but I need to do some more research. Other than that, I just want to shoot it and preserve as much of its history as I can.

It has been awhile but I am glad that you decided to keep your DD upper and it no longer has to share a lower assembly with your other upper. I don't remember offhand, but did you ever get a new optic for your DD upper? Please keep us posted, I would love to hear more about your plans for PSA lower and DD upper.

@Michael88 my Tisas 1911 that I sold last year came with Mecgar mags. Those mags functioned flawlessly and I never had any issues with them. I never saw the need to purchase the more expensive mags because the Mecgar mags were inexpensive and worked just as well.

That K1911 is beautiful. I genuinely prefer to use a shooting bench, but if one is not available I prefer to shoot prone. I purchased a USGI web sling for my M1 Garand. Lately I've been watching old M1 Garand training videos and Project Appleseed videos to learn more about using USGI style slings. I'm looking forward to seeing how much of a difference these techniques make at the range because I've already noticed a difference while dry firing at home.

 

[a6m5]

Well, I think I jinxed myself @Michael88

Me & couple of guys from work went shooting today in record heat(for June). It was like 100F(37+Celsius), and me being a total idiot, left my 1911 & Sig P226(both metal frame) in direct sun for looong time. 1911 cooled somewhat, so I was shooting it. It ran fine until second, or third mag, it had a failure to feed. 😭 Disclosure: I haven't been cleaning my guns at all, probably caused the jam. It ran fine before & after that one jam though. Sig never cooled down enough to shoot today!

@a6m5 it is good to see you post again. How are things going with obtaining your conceal carry permit? Are you required to register the gun you intend on carrying concealed? Thanks for the complement about my M1 Garand. The gun isn't flawless but I love it just the way it is. The only thing I will be changing on the gun is the gas plug when I can't find any M1 Garand specific ammo. I'm thinking about purchasing a period correct bayonet for this rifle but I need to do some more research. Other than that, I just want to shoot it and preserve as much of its history as I can.

I saw you & Michael talking about the adjustable gas plug, but I didn't realize that it was due to ammo. I learned something today. Bayonet would be badass. 👍

It has been awhile but I am glad that you decided to keep your DD upper and it no longer has to share a lower assembly with your other upper. I don't remember offhand, but did you ever get a new optic for your DD upper? Please keep us posted, I would love to hear more about your plans for PSA lower and DD upper.

This is what I have going now. Both optics I've had for while. Top one is the DD upper with EOTech. I have MBUS sitting behind it now, but I will look really hard at a magnifier hopefully in the near future. I'm satisfied with this build now, but this give/take between backup sights & magnifier I guess I'm kinda undecided.

Bottom is the M&P Sport II. My old Burris scope/mini red dot combo.

Whats your favorite shooting position?

Don't really have one..... maybe standing position.

 

[Xavier2342]

@a6m5 I really like the Burris setup you on your M&P. Is your prism sight the 3x or 5x variant? I like the fact that you can engage close and mid-range targets without removing your hands from the rifle. In terms target acquisition, how does the Burris prism sight compare to your Eotech? As you look through the prism sight, do you have to focus with eye open like a traditional rifle scope or both eyes open like your Eotech? I am sorry if these questions may seem a little weird, I don't have much experience with Prism sights.

 

[Michael88]

Well, I think I jinxed myself @Michael88

Me & couple of guys from work went shooting today in record heat(for June). It was like 100F(37+Celsius), and me being a total idiot, left my 1911 & Sig P226(both metal frame) in direct sun for looong time. 1911 cooled somewhat, so I was shooting it. It ran fine until second, or third mag, it had a failure to feed. 😭 Disclosure: I haven't been cleaning my guns at all, probably caused the jam. It ran fine before & after that one jam though.

I've been told time and again that 1911s need to be cleaned after shooting or they will stop working properly, it was probably a dirty chamber + dirty feed ramp in combination with the heat that probably burned away all the oil that was left in it.
I imagine this all contributed to a lot of friction slowing things down in that critical moment resulting in the jam.
Wouldn't worry about it. In fact, only one jam might be an actual endorsement for this 1911 considering the harsh conditions. 🙂

Also that's a nice pair of ARs! How well can you shoot the Burris at close range considering its a fixed 3x?

 

[a6m5]

@a6m5 I really like the Burris setup you on your M&P. Is your prism sight the 3x or 5x variant? I like the fact that you can engage close and mid-range targets without removing your hands from the rifle.

Burris was the kit & it came with the mini red dot. It's not the 5.56 model, but AR-536 meant for 7.62(5x).

In terms target acquisition, how does the Burris prism sight compare to your Eotech? As you look through the prism sight, do you have to focus with eye open like a traditional rifle scope or both eyes open like your Eotech? I am sorry if these questions may seem a little weird, I don't have much experience with Prism sights.

As far acquiring the target, it's not even comparable. Even compared to two other models of open design mini red dots I own(Sig Romeo1Pro & Burris FastFire 3), full size EOTech are so much quicker than anything I've tried.

I can have both eyes open to use the Burris scope.

Also that's a nice pair of ARs! How well can you shoot the Burris at close range considering its a fixed 3x?

Like I was telling Xavier, this one is the 5x magnification meant for 7.62/.308(taken off my Bushmaster .308). It works great at shorter range like 20, 30 yards, but the mini red dot on top gives me flexibility on this.

I've been told time and again that 1911s need to be cleaned after shooting or they will stop working properly, it was probably a dirty chamber + dirty feed ramp in combination with the heat that probably burned away all the oil that was left in it.
I imagine this all contributed to a lot of friction slowing things down in that critical moment resulting in the jam.
Wouldn't worry about it. In fact, only one jam might be an actual endorsement for this 1911 considering the harsh conditions. 🙂

I let couple of guys shoot it after me, and they loved it. My Kimber's pretty popular when my buddy's Springfield Armory 1911 isn't around. That one did shoot smoother, though that could be due to mileage on the Kimber. It looked worn when I got it years ago. I'll definitely clean it before I go shooting again! 😬

 

[Michael88]

Got my 1911 and immediately started working on it. I just finished polishing the feed ramp and chamber mouth, they were ok-ish when I got the pistol, but now its a mirror finish. Did it with a polishing compound, my dremel and 1200 grit sandpaper.
Chambering a round feels so much smoother now its crazy. Didn't do the chamber though, chamber & bore are chrome lined and I want to keep it that way.

 

[Xavier2342]

Got my 1911 and immediately started working on it. I just finished polishing the feed ramp and chamber mouth, they were ok-ish when I got the pistol, but now its a mirror finish. Did it with a polishing compound, my dremel and 1200 grit sandpaper.
Chambering a round feels so much smoother now its crazy. Didn't do the chamber though, chamber & bore are chrome lined and I want to keep it that way.

I've gotta ask, how well does it shoot after polishing the feed ramp? Were you able to shoot it prior to polishing it?

 

[Michael88]

I've gotta ask, how well does it shoot after polishing the feed ramp? Were you able to shoot it prior to polishing it?

Nope, got it and immediately went to work on the internals. I'm pretty sure it would have fed hardball just fine, not so sure about truncated cone and HPs, they rely a lot on smooth feed ramps. There were some significant burrs on the feed ramp

I did some function tests with it (no jams whatsoever), and maybe I'm crazy, but I find the 45 out of a steel frame pistol to be easier to control than 9mm out of my Glock 17. The recoil of the 1911 is so slow its amazing, no snappiness whatsoever with230 grain ball.

 

[Michael88]

Today I swapped the mainspring housing of my 1911 with a steel housing that has a magazine funnel on it.

I was pretty surprised when I found out that the mainspring housing of my 1911 was made of plastic instead of steel, I immediately ordered the steel one. I want to have no plastic whatsoever on my 1911.
Installation was super easy, done in about 5 minutes, and it really helps changing magazines quickly, I can recommend it. Also, as a nice side effect it makes the grip a little longer. I have huge hands, which extend beyond the end of the grip of a normal 1911.

Its 80 bucks though. 🙃

 

[a6m5]

I did some function tests with it (no jams whatsoever), and maybe I'm crazy, but I find the 45 out of a steel frame pistol to be easier to control than 9mm out of my Glock 17. The recoil of the 1911 is so slow its amazing, no snappiness whatsoever with230 grain ball.

I second that. It feels mild to me, even when compared to my USP in .45(not bad in USP either though). I have to shoot Glock 21 again. That was the first handgun I ever shot & it kicked. Next time I shoot it, I bet it wouldn't be so bad.

Shot .40 S&W for the first time couple of weeks ago. Always heard about harsher or snappier recoil. I shot it in Glock 23, and while I can see where the sentiments on stronger recoil came from, it wasn't bad at all. Love 9mm, love .45ACP, but I'd love to own a .40 someday, too.