Realism of each drivetrain?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Smoke&Slide
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I know that GTWelsh, i'm trying to understand the point you are trying to make.
 
Smoke&Slide
I know that GTWelsh, i'm trying to understand the point you are trying to make.
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I think the point he is trying to make is that every gear should have a set place in every gearbox in the game..

Reverse should be on there and neutral.. without resorting to triangle etc..

For example I would have it like...

Reverse, Neutral, 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc..

I would rather have the option to actually change down (with a wheel) into reverse than resort to hitting triangle.
 
Yes, that might be an idea. But it would work best with truly sequential manual gearboxes found in race cars. On standard manuals the reverse gear can, in theory, be engaged anytime without need to go through the first gear (as long as car speed allows).
By the way, older automatics might even have the usual P-R-N-D layout so that neutral drop could be possible (not something you'd want to do often in real life though).
Either way, again, I hope there will be real improvements on this aspect of the game.
 
its already simulated in the game,

go drive the SL55 in game and you can see how it slowly creepy forward like a real auto and shifts without transition. its been simulated since GT4. but in GT4, only the SL500 and 55 had the automatic simulation and the SL600 and 65 transmission was just a traditional manual. there are quite a few cars that are only offered in automatic in GT5P also have the simulation.

DSG boxes are already simulated as well. fast shift time and no boost drop.

i just hope they have separate cars like the M3, EVO X etc into 2 models, one manual and one in DCT. since these transmission do make a huge difference in performance between the 2.

and shifting at a lower RPM is just stupid. the automatic logic in GT is basically the same as the logic in the Sport Plus mode on the Porsche PDK. it just doesn't shift until redline.
 
I have no problems with the things being talked about in here.

I don't want to cycle though the gears to find reverse because I don't need to in real life. If you wipe out in fourth, you go straight to reverse. You don't go 3-2-1-N-R. I find this so frustrating in other games like NFS Shift and Forza (first one at least), although that's especially because the gear changes were delayed and sometimes it would go into neutral but not reverse. Either way, if you press triangle, no matter what gear you're in, you know you're going to get reverse. That's what I want. Kudos to GT for never changing that.

As for real automatic transmissions, sure it would be nice to have but it's just more work when they could be doing something else. And I disagree with people saying manual cars shouldn't be able to be driven in automated manual. I only drive manual so it doesn't matter to me but the game is meant to appeal to the masses and many people don't use manual. So it really shouldn't matter to those of us who always drive manual (even if there's auto we wouldn't use it) since it does no harm. All the best drivers use manual anyway so those using auto won't get an unfair advantage.
 
crea
its already simulated in the game,

go drive the SL55 in game and you can see how it slowly creepy forward like a real auto and shifts without transition. its been simulated since GT4. but in GT4, only the SL500 and 55 had the automatic simulation and the SL600 and 65 transmission was just a traditional manual. there are quite a few cars that are only offered in automatic in GT5P also have the simulation.
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In GT4, though, as you say there were only two vehicles with that , while many more were supposed to have it.

DSG boxes are already simulated as well. fast shift time and no boost drop.
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From GT5p onwards it appears so. The last GT game I bought is GT4, though.

i just hope they have separate cars like the M3, EVO X etc into 2 models, one manual and one in DCT. since these transmission do make a huge difference in performance between the 2.
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I agree that the transmission type should be selectable where possible.
Personally I think that new cars in GT should have a list of "options" to select from when you buy them, like in real life. So if there's an optional "automatic gearbox" selectable, the user can have it if he wishes.

and shifting at a lower RPM is just stupid. the automatic logic in GT is basically the same as the logic in the Sport Plus mode on the Porsche PDK. it just doesn't shift until redline.
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Not all automatics have the same shifting strategy.
Especially older ones, or those not thought for race use, don't have a "sport" mode and don't hold gears until redline. Newer automatics lock their torque converter very soon, enabling a more direct and rigid "feel" with the engine, but less advanced ones do that only on taller gears, for example. Very old ones (that you might have found on a C1 Corvette Convertible from GT4 for example. In theory it had a very basic 2-speed automatic) don't have converter locking at all, while other ones don't even change gears automatically.

I personally think that the proper behavior of various transmission types should be simulated. One would learn pretty quickly what is suitable for racing and what is not. Also just because something is not meant to be useful while racing it doesn't mean it's "stupid". I bet many people enjoy in Gran Turismo simply driving their cars around, taking photos of them (the Photo Mode surely isn't useful for racing/driving quickly) without caring to be competitive.
 
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SHIRAKAWA Akira
In GT4, though, as you say there were only two vehicles with that , while many more were supposed to have it.

From GT5p onwards it appears so. The last GT game I bought is GT4, though.

I agree that the transmission type should be selectable where possible.
Personally I think that new cars in GT should have a list of "options" to select from when you buy them, like in real life. So if there's an optional "automatic gearbox" selectable, the user can have it if he wishes.

Not all automatics have the same shifting strategy.
Especially older ones, or those not thought for race use, don't have a "sport" mode and don't hold gears until readline. Newer automatics lock their torque converter very soon, enabling a more direct and rigid "feel" with the engine, but less advanced ones do that only on taller gears, for example. Very old ones (that you might have found on a C1 Corvette Convertible from GT4 for example. In theory it had a very basic 2-speed automatic) don't have converter locking at all, while other ones don't even change gears automatically.

I personally think that the proper behavior of various transmission types should be simulated. One would learn pretty quickly what is suitable for racing and what is not. Also just because something is not meant to be useful while racing it doesn't mean it's "stupid". I bet many people enjoy in Gran Turismo simply driving their cars around, taking photos of them (the Photo Mode surely isn't useful for racing/driving quickly) without caring to be competitive.
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Yeah i agree with all of that.
 
automatic shifting logic is usually learned by the ECU while monitoring the driving habit of the driver.

even if you take an older automatic car with only PRND and no manual mode. Drive it hard, it will still shift at redline.

There are over 1000 cars in this game, and I'm pretty sure some strictly automatic cars will still get left out and not even have the simulated automatic box. just like the case in GT4.

the last thing we want is kaz delaying the game another year to fine tune every single car's transmission logic in the game. we should be glad already that different type of gearbox is simulated. Forza don't even have the number of gears correct in many cars, let alone manual/auto/DCT simulation and correct gear ratios! LOL

I'm gonna bet a E92 M3 with 6MT and DCT will be two separate model.

here is just a short list of cars that should be 2 separate model
E90 M3 6MT (if they bother to include it)
E90 M3 DCT
E92 M3 6MT
E92 M3 DCT
E60 M5 6MT
E60 M5 SMG3

etc etc

but I highly doubt we will get the DCT option for the E92 M3, the E92 M3 currently based on the 6MT, E60 M5 probably won't get the 6MT option either as well.
 
crea
automatic shifting logic is usually learned by the ECU while monitoring the driving habit of the driver.

even if you take an older automatic car with only PRND and no manual mode. Drive it hard, it will still shift at redline.
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Not necessarily so. That depends on the single model, of course. By the way, older automatics (from 25-30+ years ago and earlier) don't have an ECU or even electronics, they are purely hydraulically/(electro-)mechanically operated.

There are over 1000 cars in this game, and I'm pretty sure some strictly automatic cars will still get left out and not even have the simulated automatic box. just like the case in GT4.

the last thing we want is kaz delaying the game another year to fine tune every single car's transmission logic in the game. we should be glad already that different type of gearbox is simulated. Forza don't even have the number of gears correct in many cars, let alone manual/auto/DCT simulation and correct gear ratios! LOL
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Personally, if they can't get things working correctly and specifications right, I think PD reached a point where there are simply too many cars. GT4 was already ridded with small (sometimes not so small) car specification errors. But hopefully in this six years development period they took all the time to correct those, and users now also have internet updates so that if there still is any error, probably it won't be there forever.
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
I agree that the transmission type should be selectable where possible.
Personally I think that new cars in GT should have a list of "options" to select from when you buy them, like in real life. So if there's an optional "automatic gearbox" selectable, the user can have it if he wishes.

I personally think that the proper behavior of various transmission types should be simulated. One would learn pretty quickly what is suitable for racing and what is not. Also just because something is not meant to be useful while racing it doesn't mean it's "stupid". I bet many people enjoy in Gran Turismo simply driving their cars around, taking photos of them (the Photo Mode surely isn't useful for racing/driving quickly) without caring to be competitive.
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I completely agree with everything you said about this subject 👍, in fact this is why I started my first thread on this forum.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125469
 
That's a really interesting thread, you bring up all the essential points and missing things in GT4 about automatic transmissions.
Now I think I'm going to try Enthusia since I learned there that it simulates automatic transmissions correctly. I wonder if Polyphony might have learned something from that game released not too long after GT4.
 
You posted in the wrong thread Shirakawa, he knows what i mean.
 
most of the stuff PD dose with the auto i get, and im fine with. However the action of the torqueconverter is completely missing. Go to the drag strip once and you can see how cool a auto can be with a good torque converter. it shifting at redline is fine even my buds 73 nova would let you put it in 1st and it wouldnt shift. but it would be nice to take a car like the stang and foot brake it at the start of a race :)
 
I agree with selecting a cars transmission type @ purchase. I think you should be able to swap via aftermarket conversion. I know that programming the behavior of a true automatic transmission is quite difficult.

@SHIRAKAWA Akira, there are indeed many who enjoy a simple cruise. Even to the point of wanting a small nieghborhood open area just to see what its like. That can lead off to completely different things, but my point is that I agree, nothing is stupid and all of it can be used to a purpose if allowed.
 
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