Red Bull's Horner Thinks Aston Martin Valkyrie Could Topple Porsche's Ring Lap

1,703
phillip_andrews
Talk is cheap. Can’t see it happening myself. The Valkyrie is essentially a extremely fast unproven playboys car.

Whereas the 919 Evo is a monster version of the already rapid and proven Le Mans winning 919. Add in the vast Ring knowledge of the crack Porsche squad and their experienced drivers and you have a formidable challenge to beat.
 

Famine

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Valkyrie has three advantages that I can see.

First, it has more power more often. Most of that 1,130hp is from the Cosworth V12, whereas ~400hp of the 919's is electric - and sometimes the 919 uses the petrol engine to drive the generator. That might give it a power-to-weight advantage, even though the 919's complete drive system has more power driving less weight.

Secondly, it's a road car. The 'Ring is rarely used for anything faster than GT3s because anything faster than GT3s is generally too low to cope with the surface and kerbing. It's a road, not a race track. Well, the Nordschleife is a road. The 919 Evo is an adapted LMP1, so it's essentially using a lot of the rules of LMP1 but with several of the power and aero rules ignored. It still has the same basic form as the 919 LMP1, including the chassis and suspension, which is great for a race track, but not so much for a road - the car took the high line at the Carousel because it would have destroyed the bottom of it in the concrete section. The Valkyrie, nuts though it is, is designed as a road car. The AMR Pro is a more extreme adaptation of it, but it's a road car at heart.

Lastly, time. Oh you can bet your arse Aston will take the Valkyrie to the 'Ring for "development". Porsche had two days, split by a month, and only ran two timed laps... and only have one car. Aston will book out the 'Ring for a manufacturer day or three and hurl three cars down it non-stop. Even if it doesn't set the lap then, it'll have all the data it needs for a setup for a fast lap at another time.
 
1,052
Germany
Near Nürburgring
DanPrez
The Valkyrie is just a concept at this point... you can talk all day long but bringing it to the road is another thing. Porsche is world leading in what they do, i dont think anybody will be able to break that record anytime soon.

Oh, and Max Verstappen? Amazing talent, but not a Nordschleife expert.
 
858
United Kingdom
Uk
TheLeggacy
I remember Christian Horner saying something like:
“when race day comes it’s time to drop your trousers and see what you’ve got”
Seems like Aston Martin/Red Bull are trying to start a D*** swinging contest with Porsche.
 
6,145
Germany
Germany
I don't think that'll be able to battle the 919 EVO's record, not on standard street tyres. However, if it's as insane as the rumors and facts state, I do think it'll going to be obliterate the GT2 RS record by quite marging (sub-6:30, maybe?)
I personally think that tyres are going to be limiting factor in reaching faster lap records rather than the engine's performance or chassis in general.
 

adb

534
Poland
Poland
Why not, the track version with proper tyres (probably on par with 919's Michelin or better), a lot of power and monster aero could have a go.
And the street one will probably do a low 6 with some barely road legal tyres
 
479
England
Hereford
Fellix79
If there is anyone that can design a car to beat the 919Evo's time, it will be Newey.

Heck just get Williams to fire the FW14B or the FW15C round the ring with it's active suspension and that mighty V10 engine.

The biggest weight penalty is the weight of the drivers balls to do a lap that crazy!
 
811
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The Valkyrie is going to be faster than LMP1, so it will be at least right up there with the 919. They will need an Aston friendly LMP (if not F1) driver with extensive nordschliefe experience tho. Peter Dumbreck maybe?

The AMR pro will be 95% standard Valkyrie going off what was done on the Vulcan.

But as a road car, it'll still have 0F, 200R max downforce in GTS...
 
6,192
United Kingdom
Birmingham, UK
GOTMAXPOWER
Aston Martin are very good at talk, less so at delivering. It's one of those where I'll believe it when we see it.
 

Epic B

Looking for the light
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NaveekDarkroom
Valkyrie has three advantages that I can see.

First, it has more power more often. Most of that 1,130hp is from the Cosworth V12, whereas ~400hp of the 919's is electric - and sometimes the 919 uses the petrol engine to drive the generator. That might give it a power-to-weight advantage, even though the 919's complete drive system has more power driving less weight.

Secondly, it's a road car. The 'Ring is rarely used for anything faster than GT3s because anything faster than GT3s is generally too low to cope with the surface and kerbing. It's a road, not a race track. Well, the Nordschleife is a road. The 919 Evo is an adapted LMP1, so it's essentially using a lot of the rules of LMP1 but with several of the power and aero rules ignored. It still has the same basic form as the 919 LMP1, including the chassis and suspension, which is great for a race track, but not so much for a road - the car took the high line at the Carousel because it would have destroyed the bottom of it in the concrete section. The Valkyrie, nuts though it is, is designed as a road car. The AMR Pro is a more extreme adaptation of it, but it's a road car at heart.

Lastly, time. Oh you can bet your arse Aston will take the Valkyrie to the 'Ring for "development". Porsche had two days, split by a month, and only ran two timed laps... and only have one car. Aston will book out the 'Ring for a manufacturer day or three and hurl three cars down it non-stop. Even if it doesn't set the lap then, it'll have all the data it needs for a setup for a fast lap at another time.
Yeah, I'm sure the Valkyrie, at least in AMR Pro guise could stand a chance at dethroning the 919 as King of the Ring.
 
3,723
Australia
Brisbane, Australia
Chameleon9000
I don't think that'll be able to battle the 919 EVO's record, not on standard street tyres. However, if it's as insane as the rumors and facts state, I do think it'll going to be obliterate the GT2 RS record by quite marging (sub-6:30, maybe?)
I personally think that tyres are going to be limiting factor in reaching faster lap records rather than the engine's performance or chassis in general.
Why on earth would a track car use road tyres?
 
6,145
Germany
Germany
Why on earth would a track car use road tyres?

There's a "normal" version and a track car - version of the car. I assumed that he was referring to the regular Valkyrie. But even then, even for a track car, it's not that far fetched to be using high performance street legal tyres, see Pirelli Trofeo R.
 

AudiMan2011

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The only Valkyrie capable of getting close to the 919 Evo would be the AMR Pro. Even though the street car will probably produce ludicrous amounts of downforce as well, tires will likely be the biggest limiting factor for the street car, even with either Pirelli Trofeo Rs or Michelin Cup 2s.
 
3,723
Australia
Brisbane, Australia
Chameleon9000
There's a "normal" version and a track car - version of the car. I assumed that he was referring to the regular Valkyrie. But even then, even for a track car, it's not that far fetched to be using high performance street legal tyres, see Pirelli Trofeo R.
Ah fair, the article only had pictures of the AMR pro version so i just assumed they were talking about the AMR only.
 
811
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
The only Valkyrie capable of getting close to the 919 Evo would be the AMR Pro. Even though the street car will probably produce ludicrous amounts of downforce as well, tires will likely be the biggest limiting factor for the street car, even with either Pirelli Trofeo Rs or Michelin Cup 2s.
But there would be nothing stopping you from just putting racing slicks on the road car - it's still the "road" car (that can pull 4g).
 

Famine

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GTP_Famine
There's a "normal" version and a track car - version of the car. I assumed that he was referring to the regular Valkyrie. But even then, even for a track car, it's not that far fetched to be using high performance street legal tyres, see Pirelli Trofeo R.
Christian Horner
But I think that the Valkyrie, certainly the track version of the Valkyrie, could be a contender.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,299
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
You would have hoped that they would have figured it would be a possibility going in the Winter.
April is Spring, this year is was hitting 20 degrees a fair few days in April around Nurburg, so I think the snow last year was unusual.
 

adb

534
Poland
Poland
But there would be nothing stopping you from just putting racing slicks on the road car - it's still the "road" car (that can pull 4g).
True, but regarding Nordschleife, if they try it with road car/slicks they won’t beat 919’s time, and if they do so their time won’t count for any record for production cars as that has to use tires you can buy car with
I’m pretty sure they will attempt both, AMR Pro/slicks and street Valkyrie with road tires. Latter is theirs I believe, as it will demolish GT2 RS and most likely beat Project One (if AMG tries). Former is possible as well.
 

Famine

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GTP_Famine
adb
True, but regarding Nordschleife, if they try it with road car/slicks they won’t beat 919’s time, and if they do so their time won’t count for any record for production cars as that has to use tires you can buy car with
Mmm, no.

I mean, there's a few issues with this statement, but the biggest of all is that there isn't a record. No official timing body exists and there is no record keeper. The entire concept of a Nordschleife record lap, particularly in a production car, is a myth.


However, there is a single exception to that. This is the sport auto supertest. The magazine does independently lap and time the cars it tests, and keeps the records of them. In that case, the cars must use production, showroom tyres. But that also requires the car to be road legal, having passed German roadworthiness certificate (TUV)... and be registered in Germany. And the magazine conducts the tests, skipping T13, not the manufacturer.
 

homeforsummer

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Makes me wonder whether there'll be a "Black Series" or similar of Merc-AMG's Project One. I spoke to AMG at Geneva earlier this year and they were keeping their cards close to their chest as far as laptimes went. I had a feeling they would try and beat Bellof's time, which isn't unrealistic, but I suspect the 919 record might have taken the wind out of some companies' sails.