Regional car branding

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killermrk
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KillerMRK2
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but if not, I'm curious.

An example it the Opel/Vauxhall thing. Why is it that Opel is everywhere else but the UK, where it is Vauxhall? Does it really make sense? Wouldn't it cost more two make two separate badges for the same car? What about extra advertising?

Another is the lack of Suzuki in Canada, from what I can tell, most of them are branded there as Chevrolets. With us bieng so close, why don't they just stay the same? Is it because of the lack of interest, or bad history in the country. Like here with Alfa and Renault (Le Car anyone?).

I need this cleared up before I go nutso. 👍
 
MatttheTuner
I'm sure this has been discussed before, but if not, I'm curious.

An example it the Opel/Vauxhall thing. Why is it that Opel is everywhere else but the UK, where it is Vauxhall? Does it really make sense? Wouldn't it cost more two make two separate badges for the same car? What about extra advertising?

Another is the lack of Suzuki in Canada, from what I can tell, most of them are branded there as Chevrolets. With us bieng so close, why don't they just stay the same? Is it because of the lack of interest, or bad history in the country. Like here with Alfa and Renault (Le Car anyone?).

I need this cleared up before I go nutso. 👍
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The Vauxhall/Opel one is actually quite straightforward, Vauxhall is a very old marque in the UK that got absorbed into the GM group many, many years ago. Rather than loose the established customer base they simply marketed Opel's as Vauxhall's in the UK. At times certain models have differed and Opel's have on occation been sold in the UK, but not for a long, long time. So why not just sell they in the UK as Opel? A good question, but to a large degree the brand argument does still hold true, Opel just does not have the recognition that Vauxhall has, and when you are the second largest player in that market you don't just throw it away and start again. Besides with the economies of scale we are talking about here the cost of making a separate badge is low compared with the left/right hand drive costs for the UK and mainland Europe.

European brands in the US is a varied one, but most pulled out for either quality reasons or emission regulations. The latter was certainly a factor in Renault's withdrawal from the US market, the product was underpowered to start off with, once the early cats got fitted the power levels were so low that the cars would struggle to show any kind of enthusiasm to move.

Others have come close to pulling the plug (but did not do so) because of legal issues, most notably Porsche and Audi.

Regards

Scaff
 
I'm not up to speed on that whole Audi thing, care to deliberate?

Thanks for helping me with that whole Vauxhall thingy.

But still, I read that Oldsmobiles were sold in Europe as Chevrolets, but GM was too lazy to even replace the badging, wow, just wow.
 
I believe Alfa pulled the plug in America due to Fiat's ridiculously poor financial situation and bad reliability marks, which is a stereotype that still follows them today.
And the Opel Vauxhall situation gets even more confusing when Saturn is thrown into the mix.
Mattthetuner
I'm not up to speed on that whole Audi thing, care to deliberate?
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Wikipedia.org
In the United States, the 5000 name was abandoned after Audi received very negative publicity over its "unintended acceleration" incident, a problem exacerbated by news reports from CBS News's 60 Minutes program. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) concluded that the majority of unintended acceleration cases, including all the ones that prompted the 60 Minutes report, were caused by driver error such as confusion of pedals. CBS issued a partial retraction. A legacy of this are the intricate patterns many shifters use, and brake interlock mechanisms to prevent inadvertent shifting into forward or reverse, where the standard was a straight front-back pattern.
However, with the damage to its US reputation done, the 5000 once again became the 100 for the 1989 model year. Audi sales in the US would not return to the same level for 15 years.
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Audi sales dropped so hard and fast in America due to the "Unintended Acceleration" fiasco that when the European recession hit in about '93, it not only nearly took out the Audi America branch but also VAG as a whole. Porsches own financial woes in the early 90's didn't help matters any, what with the ailing and aging 968 and 928.
 
Then "up to speed" is very ironic in this case.

Well, it seems that Audi is doing just fine now.
 
and there are suzuki's in Canada. I cant think of any rebranded suzuki sold as a GM except for the aveo/swift
 
Bubble Bunny
and there are suzuki's in Canada. I cant think of any rebranded suzuki sold as a GM except for the aveo/swift
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Ummm, the Verona is sold as the Chevrolet Epica, the Forenza is the Optra and the Reno is the Optra5.

Check Wikipedia if you dont believe me. Also, we got the Swift here as the Geo Metro, the Suzuki Escudo as the Geo Tracker, and We have the Aerio here, but GM mainly had suzuki replace Daewoo in the US Domestic Market.
 
I think Scaff's posting generally sums up most of the reasoning behind it all. Many of the cars and trucks we see on-sale here and there, despite the fact they may be identical vehicles, are only a particular way because of an established brand. As Tornado notes, in America the Opel/Vauxhall cars will be sold as Saturns, as neither company holds any kind of reputation, and those that do (Opel) isn't necessarily positive outside a model or two.

In Europe, many of the Chevrolets sold there are re-badged Daewoos and Suzuki products, very few are actually the same from the US. I believe the only American Chevrolets sold in Europe are the Tahoe and Corvette, and there have been rumors that the Camaro may go across the pond as well in VERY limited numbers.

Head down to the Middle-East and you will find that many of the Chevrolet products are a mish-mosh of American, Australian, and German products. Take the American truck lineup, Opel's sedans and wagons, and the Aussie sports sedans and coupes, and you get the idea.

...But Americans aren't the only ones who do it. Honda is just as guilty with the Accord with two completely different models sold around the world with two different names. Throw Acura into the mix and things get complicated, no? I believe they still call the RL the Legend in the UK, which is funny, as we haven't had the Legend here in quite some time.

---

The good news is that this may not happen too often in the next 10 years or so. Ford and GM have both said that they want to consolidate their products so that parts are interchangeable, production is international, and requires less of the company to maintain a product lineup around the world. Truly "global" cars will fix this, and it will be interesting to see what comes of it. That means Europeans may actually drive the same models we do here in America and vice-versa. Same goes with the Japanese and the Aussies.

...To me, that makes sense. Saves money, makes the products better, and gives the car community some level of shared-knowledge about a particular product...
 
Opels will now be marketed in the US as Saturns.

In London, I saw an Acura TSX. The badging read Honda Accord.
 
philly cheese
In London, I saw an Acura TSX. The badging read Honda Accord.
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Yeah, our Accord is "special" in it's own little way. The complaints about the Accord being "too small" was finally heard at Honda after years of complaining, so they got sick of it and decided to design one just for America, and sell it worldwide as a luxury option to the "regular" Accord.
 
In Australia we've used the same badge on 3 different cars in 11 years.

From 1985-1994 the Holden Barina was a Suzuki Swift with Holden Badges,
From 1995-2004 the Holden Barina was a Opel Corsa with Holden Badges,
From 2005-current the Holden Barina is a Daewoo Kalos with Holden Badges.
 
Rebadging probably has something to do with brand recognition. All of our Australian cars come over as Pontiacs, you know, makers of the mighty GTO of years past, instead of as a Holden, whatever that is. (Yes, I do know a little about this company, but most of America probably doesn't know it exists.) Basically, the hope is that a Pontiac will sell better than the same car if it was called a Holden. People won't buy from something that has no historical backing. You know what I'm trying to get at.

The Saturn thing is probably the result of a need to redesign the brand. GM decided to put on a European flair and wanted to avoid bringing in a new brand, and voila, the new Saturn was born.
 
YSSMAN
...But Americans aren't the only ones who do it. Honda is just as guilty with the Accord with two completely different models sold around the world with two different names. Throw Acura into the mix and things get complicated, no? I believe they still call the RL the Legend in the UK, which is funny, as we haven't had the Legend here in quite some time.
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We might be sold the Legend here in the UK but nobody actually buys the Legend - so it doesn't actually matter how they are badged :sly:
 
:rolleyes: Then there is the lack of the Mercury brand in Canada since 1999, and the unavailability of a Ford Crown Vic, but there made in Canada right?

The lack of Mercury was brought on by the lack of exclusive models right?
 
YSSMAN
In Europe, many of the Chevrolets sold there are re-badged Daewoos and Suzuki products, very few are actually the same from the US. I believe the only American Chevrolets sold in Europe are the Tahoe and Corvette, and there have been rumors that the Camaro may go across the pond as well in VERY limited numbers.
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Over in the UK at least, the Corvette is just called the Corvette, in sales listings and on the Bauer and Millet showroom the cars papers have it listed as the Corvette coupe, or the Corvette Z06, not the Cheverolet Corvette coupe ect. As for the Tahoe, I don't know if they still officially sell them over here, maybe in mainland Europe somewhere. Regarding the Cheverolet/Daewoo thing, you'd think Cheverolet wanted to damage they're image, Daewoo's were not highly regarded, and now Cheverolets are not highly regarded.

...But Americans aren't the only ones who do it. Honda is just as guilty with the Accord with two completely different models sold around the world with two different names. Throw Acura into the mix and things get complicated, no? I believe they still call the RL the Legend in the UK, which is funny, as we haven't had the Legend here in quite some time.
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Don't forget VW and the Golf/Rabbit and the Bora/Jetta among others.
 
....and then there is the whole Echo/Yaris/Vitz thing going on, thats REALLY confusing for alot of people, exspecially my dad. :sick:
 
live4speed
Don't forget VW and the Golf/Rabbit and the Bora/Jetta among others.
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They sold the Rabbit here before, and they're doing it again. And if I'm not mistaken, the cars are at least a little different.
The Bora/Jetta Thing is probabley because the name "Bora", is not very catchy over here.
 
I know your VW's are built in America whereas ours are built in Europe, other than that I don't know of any specific differences. With the Bora, we used to have the Jetta, then the Jetta was replaced by the bora which carried on being called the Jetta in the US, and now it's being taken back to Jetta over here with the newest model. Personally neither Bora or Jetta are catchy names, but I own a Bora and it's a great car. Bit expensive to run compared to all my past owned cars but it's a bigger and more powerful car at the end of the day. Theres laods of straight name changes in Europe, here we get the Suzuki Vitara, in Spain and other European countries it's the Suzuki Escudo and so on. The Mitsubishi GTO is the Mitsubishi 3000GT oin Europe and possibly America I can't remember right now. The Dodge Viper SRT-10 is simply the Dodge SRT-10, but that's thaks to copyrights on cars called the Viper over here.
 
TheCracker
We might be sold the Legend here in the UK but nobody actually buys the Legend - so it doesn't actually matter how they are badged :sly:
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Why wouldn't any body buy one!? I know not many people buy them here either, and i have no clue why. Is it because it's missing two cylinders? It has 300 freaking horses! Standard awd, and Super Handling at that! They just need to give it a stick and someone needs to make a performane suspension and some decnet rims, and there you go. One badass Acura.
 
What's wrong with the RL, I see one every day! They seem to sell reasonably well.
 
Them not being manual is an instant stike against for me. Good handling is imo wasted in an automatic car, sure it's better than bad handling but theres nothing like getting the handling and gears right together, they seem to compliment each other imo. They're not terrible cars but there's plenty better and I'm talking about for stupidly higher prices either.
 
MatttheTuner
What's wrong with the RL, I see one every day! They seem to sell reasonably well.
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Erm, no. I have only seen two of the new RLs on the road. Seems like the SH-AWD is not selling despite the cold weather here in the west.

I can think of another badge engineering; Toyota Altezza and Lexus IS.
 
live4speed
I know your VW's are built in America whereas ours are built in Europe, other than that I don't know of any specific differences.
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Only the Jetta and Beetle are made in Mexico these days, our "special edition" Vee-Dubs come straight outta Deutschland, the Rabbit/Golf included. I think the only major difference between the American versions and the European ones are the lack of Diesel options (we will get the 2.0 TDI next year) and our use of the 2.5L I5 as the "standard" engine. Otherwise I believe a German model could easily come across the pond and fit in just fine...

BTW: Do they sell the Jetta GLI in Europe? Or is there some special version of the Jetta 2.0T FSI model?
 
I don't know if its the same in the States but they still sell the old Jetta and Golf/Rabbit here as VW City Jetta and VW City Golf.

Sorry for the OT.
 
I've been to Canada, I saw plenty of VeeDubs, they just said "Jetta" or "Golf" on them.
 
I know. But in recent ads both on TV and papers, they showed the previous-gen Jetta and Golf, with a name "City Jetta" "City Golf" and a saying of "Cheap, afforable cars for everybody" or something like that.
 
Wierd. That makes the cars just seem cheap. And the slogan of cheap & available doen't make much sense. Down here, a company would try to market their cars as something amazing, innovative and rich. Cheapness and availability just make the car seem conformist and low quality. Maybe that slogan would work around here in the 60s and 70s.
 
...Well thats absolutely pointless to continue building the MKIV models. I mean I realize that the New Beetle still sits on that chassis, but they seriously think they can push out models that have been matched even by the Chevrolet Cobalt and Pontiac Persuit/G5? Thats rather silly VW...

I know we all complain about the lack of the Polo or the Fox, but re-selling the MKIV models is a pretty poor option to those. Either way, the Polo is supposed to be "on the way," probably far sooner than we would expect, as the rumors are flying once again that the Corsa may come across the pond once again.
 

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