Relaxed, General Forza 5 Chat

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A synapse of my Forza sessions last night. Typically I move from one to the other as the night goes by. The closer it is to bed time the more inclined I am to hit the F5 tracks to either a) just use ForzaVista and drool or b) hit up a Rivals event in a bone stock vehicle to see how high I can go in the leaderboards.

A little backstory: I have been a little upset at the Ferrari 458. I found it too have so much oversteer on initial turn in that I dismissed the car completely. Having said that, it is probably one of my favorite Ferrari's so I painted a Novitec Rosso style 458 and went to town on the 'ring, determined to tame the prancing horse.

It was very frustrating, but as with anything; practice makes perfect. The 458 drives so differently than in GT or even F4, really, the only thing I can compare it too is balancing on a very very sharp knife edge. The slightest slip up, over-braking or too much speed and that's it. Either drift wide, very instant oversteer, or simply losing time by applying the power and sliding the tail out on every single turn. Patience, throttle control and Mid-Engine driving style are a must. (no aids BTW)

Needles to say, I felt the greatest feeling of accomplishment last night when I rocked my best A class time at the track with the 458. My hands were sweating I was jittery and it felt amazing. I will stand by these words: Forza in the most fun I have ever had in a driving game, EVER.


I think she is starting to like me :)
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This is certainly very interesting to read. Even though I'm not a very big fan of the X1's hardware, I'd get it (when I can) just to experience FM5, 6 and H2.

How would you say the performance characteristics of the 458 depicted in the game compares to the actual 458? I know most folks aren't er.. 'equipped' to respond to this, but I thought I'd just toss it out there!

Happy motoring! :D
 
This is certainly very interesting to read. Even though I'm not a very big fan of the X1's hardware, I'd get it (when I can) just to experience FM5, 6 and H2.

How would you say the performance characteristics of the 458 depicted in the game compares to the actual 458? I know most folks aren't er.. 'equipped' to respond to this, but I thought I'd just toss it out there!

Happy motoring! :D

Hey there, that is a very fair question and although I have never been behind the wheel (yet) of that wonderful machine, I spent a few years driving SCCA solo I in my S2000. Obviously this is far from an "apples to apples" comparison but what I found most strange is the oversteer produced even with the slightest input. It almost reacted like I was driving on ice.

I must admit however that the tendency seems to have been mitigated the more I use the vehicle. Not to sound "cliche" but you get accustomed to the dynamic of the car. Perhaps my expectations were more akin to GT, but having said that I believe that the 458 is possibly one of the more rewarding cars to drive in F5. A lot of stepping out of the rear, compared to the other Ferrari's but get it right and the car is greased lighting with the wail of banshee. Awesome machine, for sure.

Happy motoring and happy holidays :)
 
Hey there, that is a very fair question and although I have never been behind the wheel (yet) of that wonderful machine, I spent a few years driving SCCA solo I in my S2000. Obviously this is far from an "apples to apples" comparison but what I found most strange is the oversteer produced even with the slightest input. It almost reacted like I was driving on ice.

I must admit however that the tendency seems to have been mitigated the more I use the vehicle. Not to sound "cliche" but you get accustomed to the dynamic of the car. Perhaps my expectations were more akin to GT, but having said that I believe that the 458 is possibly one of the more rewarding cars to drive in F5. A lot of stepping out of the rear, compared to the other Ferrari's but get it right and the car is greased lighting with the wail of banshee. Awesome machine, for sure.

Happy motoring and happy holidays :)

Ah yes, the F458. It definitely has a different feel in FM5 compared to FM4. I love driving it around in FM5, because it can bite you for making a mistake; so adds an air of challenge to drive it. But at the same time, even back when FM5 first released; I found it very easy to drive with all the assists off. You absolutely have to respect the car in Forza 5 as you are driving it though.



The video is from last December. The 3rd lap I was drifting, as I wanted to show that TCS and STM where turned off.
 
Hey there, that is a very fair question and although I have never been behind the wheel (yet) of that wonderful machine, I spent a few years driving SCCA solo I in my S2000. Obviously this is far from an "apples to apples" comparison but what I found most strange is the oversteer produced even with the slightest input. It almost reacted like I was driving on ice.

I must admit however that the tendency seems to have been mitigated the more I use the vehicle. Not to sound "cliche" but you get accustomed to the dynamic of the car. Perhaps my expectations were more akin to GT, but having said that I believe that the 458 is possibly one of the more rewarding cars to drive in F5. A lot of stepping out of the rear, compared to the other Ferrari's but get it right and the car is greased lighting with the wail of banshee. Awesome machine, for sure.

Happy motoring and happy holidays :)

Happy holidays!

Out of curiosity, are you on a controller? If yes, what deadzone settings? Many folks aren't happy with the reduced ROM the new X1 controller has on its analog sticks and triggers. Thoughts?

Ah yes, the F458. It definitely has a different feel in FM5 compared to FM4. I love driving it around in FM5, because it can bite you for making a mistake; so adds an air of challenge to drive it. But at the same time, even back when FM5 first released; I found it very easy to drive with all the assists off. You absolutely have to respect the car in Forza 5 as you are driving it though.



The video is from last December. The 3rd lap I was drifting, as I wanted to show that TCS and STM where turned off.


So zee quezteone eez....which one's closer to the real-life version? Never mind realism and other nuances.. FM4 or FM5?
 
Hi all. It's been a while in this thread, I hope you're all well :)

I've been playing a bit of Forza 4 the last few days and wow, just wow, the amount of content it has

Not least the Porsche dlc pack, which is epic

It really is head and shoulders above 5 in terms of amount of cars and tracks, but we know that

4 looks pretty good too. 4's handling seems very simplified though, compared to 5

A hybrid of 4 and 5 to make 6 would blow away anything else on console, imo :cool:

Opinions?
 
I'd like to see them keep the driving mechanics and open wheel racers of 5, add the car/track selection and community features of 4 and develop all new visuals and variable lighting for 6.

if they were somehow able to add weather as well the resultant game would probably end up having the system crash frequency of Horizon 2 though.
 
Hi all. It's been a while in this thread, I hope you're all well :)

I've been playing a bit of Forza 4 the last few days and wow, just wow, the amount of content it has

Not least the Porsche dlc pack, which is epic

It really is head and shoulders above 5 in terms of amount of cars and tracks, but we know that

4 looks pretty good too. 4's handling seems very simplified though, compared to 5

A hybrid of 4 and 5 to make 6 would blow away anything else on console, imo :cool:

Opinions?

Wow... is this the first time you fired up FM4? MAN.. were you missing out! :D

Even though I don't own FM5, I strongly believe 4 is their best product to date, and that's not by chance - the console was past it's mid-shelf life, and the devs just happen to strike the right cords.

Yes, 4's handling might appear simplistic comparted to 5, no doubt. When FM3 came out, it was the most realistic thing I had experienced on a console, and before that I used to think FM2 was realistic and "good enough" in my books. Man, these guys just up their game tremendously in terms of physics from iteration to iteration.

One of the major reasons I'm skipping FM5 for now is how "full" FM4 keeps, frankly speaking it has practically everything I could ask from a console sim, albeit a few minor annoyances.

Between FM6 and 7, we should be seeing the X1's power being exploited to nearly its full potential. So I'm willing to cut T10 a lot of slack for now, despite the fact FM5 was a disappointment for some. But then again we need to think back to the good old days when Gears of War came out as a launch title. Between GOW 1 and 3, the graphics in Gears 1 can be described as abysmal.

However, I wish there were a way for devs to exploit all development tools from day 1 after a new console is released. But that just isn't possible for now. Not sure how PC works, as the hardware's constantly evolving; I'd imagine they get to capitalize on the full suite of tools from day 1.

Sorry for the slight off-topic there.
 
Between FM6 and 7, we should be seeing the X1's power being exploited to nearly its full potential. So I'm willing to cut T10 a lot of slack for now, despite the fact FM5 was a disappointment for some. But then again we need to think back to the good old days when Gears of War came out as a launch title. Between GOW 1 and 3, the graphics in Gears 1 can be described as abysmal.

However, I wish there were a way for devs to exploit all development tools from day 1 after a new console is released. But that just isn't possible for now. Not sure how PC works, as the hardware's constantly evolving; I'd imagine they get to capitalize on the full suite of tools from day 1.

Sorry for the slight off-topic there.

Dont get me wrong here, as I love playing forza on my Xbox one and on my 360 as well. And there will be some graphical gains available to T10 and other game devs for each console. But the Xbox one and the PS4 are pitiful in terms of technical prowess.
The CPUS are based on ones designed for tablet devices, and where over 4 years old on the date of release of the new consoles. The GPU's are just as weak, mainly because it was 4+ year old tech at release. The PS4 will be able to do more in terms of graphics, which night and weather will come into extensively.

The thing here is, they are both x86 architecture. Game devs, even console game devs; would have learnt to code for this architecture in the vast majority of cases. It has been around for just that long now.
There will be less "hidden" aspects to draw out of the consoles this time because of this fact, and I firmly believe that MS and Sony should have gone with custom hardware and architectures again. The 360 and PS3 have only stayed relevant this long because they use custom hardware and architecture.

What we have been given by MS and Sony, is 2 vastly stripped out PC's, with a weak CPU and a weak GPU. Sure the games coming out look good, and that is because the game devs are optimising the games to run on the consoles. They will be paying more attention to the poly counts, the texture file sizes, the games coding, and so on. And will be making the games have as little impact as they possibly can on the hardware.
And even though the games look good, it is only because we are at the point of diminishing returns on that front. And as I pointed out a while back, graphical gains in todays games needs to be done with lighting and shadows. And the current consoles will hit a wall on that front rather quickly, when compared to the 360 and PS3 anyway.

As for PC games, mainly the multi platform games. Game devs will often let the more powerful hardware available to PC gamers brute force the games to an extent. This is why farcry 4 and other multiplats can stutter on pc, even on a system running an intel i7 4790k cpu and even the newest Geforce GTX980's.

As I said above, I really enjoy playing forza on my X1. But I have been playing with PC's and consoles since the late 1980's. I know my way around the hardware, and just can not be fooled by MS and Sonys poor attempts to make a console this time around. And if it wasn't for the fact I like Forza so much as a game series, I dont thing I would have bought a console this time around. Just as I will only buy a PS4 if GT7 is any good.
 
Dont get me wrong here, as I love playing forza on my Xbox one and on my 360 as well. And there will be some graphical gains available to T10 and other game devs for each console. But the Xbox one and the PS4 are pitiful in terms of technical prowess.
The CPUS are based on ones designed for tablet devices, and where over 4 years old on the date of release of the new consoles. The GPU's are just as weak, mainly because it was 4+ year old tech at release. The PS4 will be able to do more in terms of graphics, which night and weather will come into extensively.

The thing here is, they are both x86 architecture. Game devs, even console game devs; would have learnt to code for this architecture in the vast majority of cases. It has been around for just that long now.
There will be less "hidden" aspects to draw out of the consoles this time because of this fact, and I firmly believe that MS and Sony should have gone with custom hardware and architectures again. The 360 and PS3 have only stayed relevant this long because they use custom hardware and architecture.

What we have been given by MS and Sony, is 2 vastly stripped out PC's, with a weak CPU and a weak GPU. Sure the games coming out look good, and that is because the game devs are optimising the games to run on the consoles. They will be paying more attention to the poly counts, the texture file sizes, the games coding, and so on. And will be making the games have as little impact as they possibly can on the hardware.
And even though the games look good, it is only because we are at the point of diminishing returns on that front. And as I pointed out a while back, graphical gains in todays games needs to be done with lighting and shadows. And the current consoles will hit a wall on that front rather quickly, when compared to the 360 and PS3 anyway.

As for PC games, mainly the multi platform games. Game devs will often let the more powerful hardware available to PC gamers brute force the games to an extent. This is why farcry 4 and other multiplats can stutter on pc, even on a system running an intel i7 4790k cpu and even the newest Geforce GTX980's.

As I said above, I really enjoy playing forza on my X1. But I have been playing with PC's and consoles since the late 1980's. I know my way around the hardware, and just can not be fooled by MS and Sonys poor attempts to make a console this time around. And if it wasn't for the fact I like Forza so much as a game series, I dont thing I would have bought a console this time around. Just as I will only buy a PS4 if GT7 is any good.

Great points. I agree 100%.

Do you honestly think the PS4/X1 are as powerful and/or better as the X360/PS3 were, compared to the original Xbox and PS2?

I don't believe so. The X360 and PS3 were markedly more powerful consoles compared to their previous gen counterparts.

Thoughts?
 
Great points. I agree 100%.

Do you honestly think the PS4/X1 are as powerful and/or better as the X360/PS3 were, compared to the original Xbox and PS2?

I don't believe so. The X360 and PS3 were markedly more powerful consoles compared to their previous gen counterparts.

Thoughts?

The X1 and PS4 are more powerful than the 360/PS3, that much is a given. But the power pc CPU's in the 360 where no slouches either, and had much better clock speeds if my memory serves. the cell processor in the PS3 however, it was revolutionary in the tech world. And for a time, the PS3 had the tech to power past some of the best gaming pc's when it released. It was just that powerful of a design. But again, it was also custom hardware and running custom architecture. This allowed the game devs to keep making better looking games, even right up till now.

Another thing that will affect the consoles as well, is the increased resolution capabilities; 1080p. Something which the PS4 is finding easier to hit than the X1.
Though this can also cause games to require more cpu resources to run, which is easy enough to see if you have a gaming pc.

All you have to do is run a game at 720p, and then run the same game at 1080p. Eventually though, and if you can increase the resolution more (2k/3k/4k). Even some CPU intensive games will become more GPU intensive at higher resolutions. It is a double edged sword though, and if your GPU isn't that great or not using sli/crossfire; you would have to start turning visual effects down and/or off for playable framerates.
 
The X1 and PS4 are more powerful than the 360/PS3, that much is a given. But the power pc CPU's in the 360 where no slouches either, and had much better clock speeds if my memory serves. the cell processor in the PS3 however, it was revolutionary in the tech world. And for a time, the PS3 had the tech to power past some of the best gaming pc's when it released. It was just that powerful of a design. But again, it was also custom hardware and running custom architecture. This allowed the game devs to keep making better looking games, even right up till now.

Another thing that will affect the consoles as well, is the increased resolution capabilities; 1080p. Something which the PS4 is finding easier to hit than the X1.
Though this can also cause games to require more cpu resources to run, which is easy enough to see if you have a gaming pc.

All you have to do is run a game at 720p, and then run the same game at 1080p. Eventually though, and if you can increase the resolution more (2k/3k/4k). Even some CPU intensive games will become more GPU intensive at higher resolutions. It is a double edged sword though, and if your GPU isn't that great or not using sli/crossfire; you would have to start turning visual effects down and/or off for playable framerates.


Ah right, well.. my question was: is the tech and improvement gap from x360/ps3 to x1/ps4 as wide or as significant as it was between xbox/ps2 to x360/ps3? There, that's what I meant.

:)

Edit: something tells me the PS3 and X360 are going to be around for a while. They're classics. Like the SNES or Neo Geo!
 
Edit: something tells me the PS3 and X360 are going to be around for a while. They're classics. Like the SNES or Neo Geo!
They'll be around lingering, yeah, but I dont see them lasting. They are already getting killed out by company's either not releasing last gen games, or releasing completely inferior products compared to its next gen siblings. It seems like wasted time for a company to focus on releasing both a last gen, and current gen game. Compromises are going to be made either in the way of the next gen game getting held back, or the last gen game not being able to hold its ground.
 
The PS3/XB360 have already had their stay of execution; I think we could agree no other console generation has limped along for as long as the seventh has.

I consider it a pleasant surprise to be getting the XB360 racing games they're still giving us (FH2, Grid Autosport, RIDE). I didn't expect any.
 
Uhh...RIDE? I'll Google that up. Never heard of it.

I also meant the consoles are going to be around for a while, as in.. people still playing their PS3/X360 games. They both have a killer game collection, which is more than what we can say for their new gen counterparts.
 
Thus far I have to agree with Ialyrn's assessment.
With the frame rate issues in FM5, it appears the XB1 runs out of giddyup pretty quick.
Even after cold boots it doesn't take long for them to start reappearing.
When FM6 comes out we will be able to see if T10 can massage and squeeze more out of it.
This gen of consoles seem to be as much of a side step, as a step up.
I think economics played into this gen in a bigger way than previously.
Thus the existing 4+yr old tech, they went with.
It will be interesting to see how GT7 will do on the PS4, and if the frame rate issues that 5 and 6 had are finally eliminated.
 
Thus far I have to agree with Ialyrn's assessment.
With the frame rate issues in FM5, it appears the XB1 runs out of giddyup pretty quick.
Even after cold boots it doesn't take long for them to start reappearing.
When FM6 comes out we will be able to see if T10 can massage and squeeze more out of it.
This gen of consoles seem to be as much of a side step, as a step up.
I think economics played into this gen in a bigger way than previously.
Thus the existing 4+yr old tech, they went with.
It will be interesting to see how GT7 will do on the PS4, and if the frame rate issues that 5 and 6 had are finally eliminated.

I don't know what is going on at your end, but I only have framerate issues in forza 5 if I sit in the same spot spinning the tires. And that is for a good few seconds before that hits, and has been the same for all other forza titles. I could do the same back on my PS2 with the odd racing game also, and it even happens in call of duty on every single platform it has ever been on. All you have to do is drop a few smoke grenades in one spot, and it will kill the FPS. Particle effects can cripple a game, that's how much CPU and GPU power they need to render up. Any game that uses particle effects for smoke and dust generation, the FPS can tank while rendering those effects up.

With the issues you have had since getting an X1, I think it might be time you contacted xbox support. There is the potential for you to have a faulty xbox one.
 
Uhh...RIDE? I'll Google that up. Never heard of it.

I also meant the consoles are going to be around for a while, as in.. people still playing their PS3/X360 games. They both have a killer game collection, which is more than what we can say for their new gen counterparts.
There hasnt been a console that has disappeared since before the Original Nintendo, probably before but I'm just to young to know. With that said, its not to far to expect that people will keep on with an old console, its how it's always been. I myself sold mine as soon as I went next gen, nothing on the past gen kept my interest anymore.

Of course, a console thats been out a year~ isnt going to have as much games as one that's been out 9 years.

I don't know what is going on at your end, but I only have framerate issues in forza 5 if I sit in the same spot spinning the tires. And that is for a good few seconds before that hits, and has been the same for all other forza titles. I could do the same back on my PS2 with the odd racing game also, and it even happens in call of duty on every single platform it has ever been on. All you have to do is drop a few smoke grenades in one spot, and it will kill the FPS. Particle effects can cripple a game, that's how much CPU and GPU power they need to render up. Any game that uses particle effects for smoke and dust generation, the FPS can tank while rendering those effects up.

With the issues you have had since getting an X1, I think it might be time you contacted xbox support. There is the potential for you to have a faulty xbox one.
I have to agree. The only time I've seen framerate issues, outside of the instance you described, is on Le Mans during online play with multiple people talking.
 
The frame drop on Le Mans is only for a second and always in the same spot of the track, I've haven't seen constant frame rate loss on any track.
 
I doubt these frame rate dips are in offline racing... (apart from the generating smoke in one spot stuff)

Are they?

Thus far I have to agree with Ialyrn's assessment.
With the frame rate issues in FM5, it appears the XB1 runs out of giddyup pretty quick.
Even after cold boots it doesn't take long for them to start reappearing.
When FM6 comes out we will be able to see if T10 can massage and squeeze more out of it.
This gen of consoles seem to be as much of a side step, as a step up.
I think economics played into this gen in a bigger way than previously.
Thus the existing 4+yr old tech, they went with.
It will be interesting to see how GT7 will do on the PS4, and if the frame rate issues that 5 and 6 had are finally eliminated.

Economics certainly played their part this generation. I believe if the X1/PS4 had been released back in the 80s or 90s (provided the same tech innovations had been made), we'd be seeing better consoles... why? Cos the 80s and 90s were in contrast, much happier times! :D

Being said, I truly believe the PS4 is going to edge ahead of the X1 this generation, as there are performance bottlenecks already starting to appear in too many games (not too severe though, but still there).

But then again MS has Forza in their arsenal which is a force to be reckoned with: racing games sell any console well. I just wish T10 wasn't held back by the hardware.

In all honesty, do you think T10 might fare better or get the same kind of funding if they join forces with Sony or PC-only game publishers?

Edit: this just popped up in my mind so I though I'd ask you guys... how come FM5 doesn't have the HUD readout for the ZR-1 and Zo6?
 
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In all honesty, do you think T10 might fare better or get the same kind of funding if they join forces with Sony or PC-only game publishers?
Sony wouldn't support them, because they have Gran Turismo and they don't seem to want an over 250 developers studio for a racing game. In fact, their most successful developer PD don't even has 200 people in their building and their biggest studios only have so many people, because they develop multiple games. Microsoft allows Turn10 with their internal 250 developers to additionally use hundreds in outsourcing studios.

Seeing the current market, i would say Microsoft is the best partner Turn10 could have, because a third party publisher don't seem to want to create an racing simulation, let alone an big budget racing franchise like Forza or GT and Sony/Kaz seems to refuse to increase their staff massively, ignoring the demands of their own game and just release it with standard cars for example.
I just wish T10 wasn't held back by the hardware.
Everytime i read this, i am thinking of an PS4 vs Wii U difference, because it sounds like that :D Yes, the Xbox One is weaker and should have been better, but lets not pretend that there is an huge difference between PS4 and Xbox One. Forza 5 might not be the prettiest game, but lets not forget it was an launch game and the next Forzas like every franchise will look much better than a launch game.
 
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Sony wouldn't support them, because they have Gran Turismo and they don't seem to want an over 250 developers studio for a racing game. In fact, their most successful developer PD don't even has 200 people in their building and their biggest studios only have so many people, because they develop multiple games. Microsoft allows Turn10 with their internal 250 developers to additionally use hundreds in outsourcing studios.

Seeing the current market, i would say Microsoft is the best partner Turn10 could have, because a third party publisher don't seem to want to create an racing simulation, let alone an big budget racing franchise like Forza or GT and Sony/Kaz seems to refuse to increase their staff massively, ignoring the demands of their own game and just release it with standard cars for example. Everytime i read this, i am thinking of an PS4 vs Wii U difference, because it sounds like that :D Yes, the Xbox One is weaker and should have been better, but lets not pretend that there is an huge difference between PS4 and Xbox One. Forza 5 might not be the prettiest game, but lets not forget it was an launch game and the next Forzas like every franchise will look much better than a launch game.

Well, for that matter, Horizon 2 wasn't as big a leap either, and it wasn't a launch title. You still see limited smoke/dirt effects (though they are far better than Forza 5's). The headlight beams appear projected for every car and there's no variation, it isn't even dynamic, and they barely light up 15 feet of road ahead of you. You would also notice wet trails behind cars that aren't that realistic-looking.

Not bashing it though, great game. My point is patches, updates or some other magical formula won't unlock more power out of the console. Lose Kinect = get more power. Add DX12 support = get more power... I don't think that's being realistic. The PS4 has more bandwidth available on command, period. So it appears again we're going to be seeing higher resolutions and better particle effects on Sony's console.

However, nothing would please me more to see the X1 handling higher resolutions and dense realistic particle effects. You would think all of that would be possible by now, without compromising framerates or running into bottlenecks.

GT7 will be a preposterously good looking game, I have no doubt. But then it's the audio and physics I can't live it. I hope PD takes that seriously this time around.
 
With the issues you have had since getting an X1, I think it might be time you contacted xbox support. There is the potential for you to have a faulty xbox one.

Yes that is a possibility.
The frame rate issue seems to be more prevalent the longer you play after a cold boot, and if you continue to cycle with instant on.
I'm going to try switching off "instant on" all together and see what kind of results I get.
I doubt I would get anything but the runaround from xbox support for that problem.
But it is a last resort.
The controller delay problem hasn't been present at all recently.
Perhaps it is less frequent with cold boots as well, since I have been using more of them.
 
Seeing the current market, i would say Microsoft is the best partner Turn10 could have, because a third party publisher don't seem to want to create an racing simulation, let alone an big budget racing franchise like Forza or GT...
Because Gran Turismo and Forza Motorsport kicked their ass ten years ago, when just about everyone gave it a try.
 
Well, for that matter, Horizon 2 wasn't as big a leap either, and it wasn't a launch title. You still see limited smoke/dirt effects (though they are far better than Forza 5's). The headlight beams appear projected for every car and there's no variation, it isn't even dynamic, and they barely light up 15 feet of road ahead of you. You would also notice wet trails behind cars that aren't that realistic-looking.
Horizon was a pretty damn big leap over the original if you ask me. Literally everything about it is better than its first iteration. Dirt and particle effects look great too, especially how the cars look dirty after going offroad for an amount of time. I especially like how the rain actually washes the car off as well. Still, I'm not exactly sure how a headlight is supposed to be dynamic. Its projecting ligjt, so thats probably why it looks projected? If you can explain it in a better way, I'm willing to listen.

I never understood how you can make so much assumptions about a game, when you dont have it, or the console its on.

Not bashing it though, great game. My point is patches, updates or some other magical formula won't unlock more power out of the console. Lose Kinect = get more power. Add DX12 support = get more power... I don't think that's being realistic. The PS4 has more bandwidth available on command, period. So it appears again we're going to be seeing higher resolutions and better particle effects on Sony's console.
The whole thing is, are they going to be able to deliver. The slight up in resolution isnt much to make a difference, even when comparing to exact same games on both consoles. yes there is a difference, but it is slight.

However, nothing would please me more to see the X1 handling higher resolutions and dense realistic particle effects. You would think all of that would be possible by now, without compromising framerates or running into bottlenecks.
When you find any game, that does any of this, let me know.

GT7 will be a preposterously good looking game, I have no doubt. But then it's the audio and physics I can't live it. I hope PD takes that seriously this time around.
It is already good looking, in some aspects. If they can get good looking 100% across the board then I'll be one happy customer. I really want to see what they can produce this gen.
 
@Speedster911 The X1 and PS4 are pretty much comparable in terms of hardware and performance. The thing that is helping the PS4 along the most, is that GDDR5; which is a far better ram to use for running games. That is why PC graphics cards utilise it. The CPU in both consoles is exactly the same, with the PS4 having a slightly stronger GPU on the die.

The fact that the PS4 is hitting 1080p more often than the X1 on multiplats, is really just a moot point. In fact, it is even causing some frame rate issues on the PS4 side of things. Just take a look at COD Ghosts and Advanced warfare. Both have significant framedrops in single player, and have graphical details reduced in multiplayer for stable 60FPS.
The X1 running at a lower resolution is having far less significant frame drops, and so the single player is more playable on the console. I do believe the details in multiplayer are also reduced as well.
I own Ghosts on the X1 and the PC (I have friends who only use pc's for gaming, and first person shooter games are better on PC), and even though it runs a ton better on a strong PC. It will still drop frames every now and then (nothing as severe as the console versions though), but the details are not changed between single player and multiplayer like on the console versions.

Going back to the resolution of the consoles though, it doesn't matter to me if a game is at 720p or 1080p. Sure the picture is often clearer at 1080p, but I would rather have a stable and solid framerate. I would even take reduced graphics as well, because they just don't ultimately matter to me. That probably has to do with my playing Chase HQ on an Amstrad CPC when I was younger.
For some reason though, everyone has jumped onto this "everything has to be 1080P@60fps" band wagon. Both the X1 and the PS4 are getting slated when it doesn't hit that. And if that is all people care about, none of the consoles currently on the market are for them. They need to go to PC and have done with it. The consoles are what they are, and nothing will change that now. We have to bite the bullet and wait till the next generation comes around.

As for Forza Horizon 2, it cant really be compared to Forza Motorsport 5. Even in part. Yes they share the same underpinnings, and much of the same 3d models for the cars. But that is where the similarities end, as one is open world running at 30fps and the other is a closed circuit running at 60fps. They are different types of racers.

However, nothing would please me more to see the X1 handling higher resolutions and dense realistic particle effects. You would think all of that would be possible by now, without compromising framerates or running into bottlenecks.

There is no way T10 and playground games can make an openworld or circuit based game that has everything you want, and they wouldn't be able to do that solely on PC either. Even with how strong PC hardware is, it is not that powerful. Not in the price ranges most can afford anyway.
To run all the things you want to see, you would need a pc running on the x99 chipset, with an 8 core i7, DDR4 ram, and either quad geforce titan blacks, or quad GTX980's at the very least. Just take a look at the formula one simulators that F1 teams use, they are often using a minimum of 5 computers just to run the things. Even the most powerful pc would struggle. Not only that, but T10 would need to make the game truly multi-threaded. The majority of games on PC are still only using 2 cores, with only some using 4 or more cpu cores (such as battlefield). A game dev has to make a game for their biggest market, and in a lot of cases, that is on consoles. And on PC, they have to take into account the people who don't have high end gaming systems. Often catering to people still running on Core 2 duos and athlon X2's and dual core Phenoms, that still have a graphics card from the Geforce 400 range, and the AMD equivalent.

Also, bottleneck in the sense you used it here. It is the wrong word to use. The X1 has been designed specifically to run with the hardware it has, and there will likely not be a bottleneck. It is a term thrown around far too often.

What a bottleneck is, is when one particular hardware component hinders the performance of another hardware component. In most cases, this is a lowend or old CPU stopping a decent/newer/higher end GPU from running at its best. This wont happen on the PS4 and X1, because the CPU is specifically designed to work in conjunction with the GPU, It is built for its task in the consoles. Both of them are equally as weak as one another (the CPU and GPU that is). What we are facing on the PS4 and X1 is not a hardware bottleneck, just weak hardware overall.

Take it this way, I have project cars on my system. I can run it at 140fps+ at 1080P on my system with all details maxed out.... when I am on a track with no AI, and on clear weather settings at midday. The moment I stick on a full grid of AI, with time transition between day and night, and with weather turned on. I can see my FPS plummet to around 70fps, with dips into the 60's. And that is running on a single GTX780 (A £350 graphics card), and an FX-4300 overclocked from 3.8GHz to 4.6GHz; which is cooled by an AIO water cooler unit from Corsair. The graphics card alone cost more than my entire system did originally, which was £330 to build it back in 2013.
My graphics card is vastly more powerful than the GPU in the PS4 and X1. And even though my CPU is only a quad core, it is a desktop based CPU, not a portable based tablet CPU. It runs hotter, and it runs faster per core. Now take into account the i5 haswell, and haswell refresh. They bury my cpu in terms of performance. they even best the 8 core AMD FX-8s and FX-9's in terms of per core performance in a vast amount of instances. Its not even funny how far ahead Intel is in the CPU performance race at this particular moment in time.

So taking into account that project cars is by far the prettiest racing game ever made to date (it really is when seeing it in person on a decent PC), even it doesn't have the realistic particle effects that you want Forza to have. Though they are better.

So really, there is just no viable way to have your cake and to eat it too. Not at this moment in time anyway.


P.S sorry for the wall of text, just so much stuff to touch upon. Before posting, there was triple the content included that I have posted up. And in far greater detail.
 
If developers didn't feel as much pressure to push 1080p or high-poly models, you could have better-looking games at 60fps on PS4/XBone. In my humble opinion, the poly counts of your average AAA game are out of whack relative to visual effects, object density, or even texture resolution, and have been since devs started milking the last ounces of power out of the PS3/XB360. There's so much detail on objects of interest that there isn't enough to spare for the remainder of the image. For example, L.A. Noire is already aging rather poorly, and it hasn't even been five years.

It seems to me like this habit followed some developers onto PS4/XBone. You can't just brute-force quality visuals with smaller polygons and higher resolutions.
 
So taking into account that project cars is by far the prettiest racing game ever made to date (it really is when seeing it in person on a decent PC), even it doesn't have the realistic particle effects that you want Forza to have. Though they are better.
You should take a look at DriveClub, Project Cars look bland in comparisson.



Consoles' hardware can't be compared to similar pcs, there is always more juice to extract in a closed system enginered with the only purpose of running games. Also the top first party studios in consoles always experiment more in custom graphics and effects. Graphics in pc are usually powered by brute force, top of the line gfx cards and default gfx libraries, the hardware is rarely optimized and exploited so deep like in consoles.
 
If developers didn't feel as much pressure to push 1080p or high-poly models, you could have better-looking games at 60fps on PS4/XBone. In my humble opinion, the poly counts of your average AAA game are out of whack relative to visual effects, object density, or even texture resolution, and have been since devs started milking the last ounces of power out of the PS3/XB360. There's so much detail on objects of interest that there isn't enough to spare for the remainder of the image. For example, L.A. Noire is already aging rather poorly, and it hasn't even been five years.

It seems to me like this habit followed some developers onto PS4/XBone. You can't just brute-force quality visuals with smaller polygons and higher resolutions.
Actually PCars scaled back the polygon count for the consoles in order to ensure the 60fps and the huge car count offline. Tradeoffs have to be made even by first party studios, and the route that PCars took was racing first, minimum 1080p/60fps and the game was designed around that. I believe they went with something like 60k polygons which is how they will get 45 cars on track offline and why DC only gets 12 and only 30fps. I wouldn't buy a game that runs at 30fps, just isn't good enough for racing IMO. PD may be able to get more out of the system but not 2 or 3 times more and something has to give. Either polygons or car count or physics...something. IMO PCars made the right tradeoffs for the kind of game they are trying to be...a pure sim racing game.
 
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