Ridiculous power figures on some cars

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Greycap

Greycap

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I used many search attributes and found nothing, so here it is:

Why can't some cars be tuned to their full potential? For example the Volvo 240 has a 2300cc engine that in real life could be turbocharged to about 600 BHP. In Gran Turismo, however, the most you get out of it is a ridiculous 285 BHP. Why can't we tune our cars to the maximum?

P.S. The Volvo is grossly overweight too...
 
What gives you the impression that the engine could be tuned to 600hp? Just because some other 2.3L engine can be tuned that high? As far as I'm aware, it doesn't work that way. Engine size is no indicator of maximum possible horsepower.

And how far off is the weight? It's a Volvo, for cryin' out loud.. have you looked up the weight on the real car?
 
I know a guy whose family owns a 240. The car's manual says it weighs a little over 1300 kg. Here in Finland the Volvo is also a popular rallycross car and they boast nearly 400 BHP with NA tuning (turbocharging is forbidden).
 
soptom
I would imagine there isn't a single 600hp Volvo 240 on the planet, you must have some kind of realism.
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fok.nl
"Jesus drives a 600-bhp, 1975 Volvo 240, and he's a plumber, not a carpenter. How do we know this? We recently spent some time with Henrik "Jesus" Alfredsson, a man who's had that ecclesiastic nickname since the fifth grade, is an industrial plumber, and is squarely on track to building Sweden's fastest street legal Volvo 240."

0402ec_volvo02_z.jpg


0402ec_volvo03_z.jpg


"Call him a Volvo apostle, but you can't fault this guy for brand loyalty. Nearly every major component for "God's-own 240" is sourced from within the Volvo family. The block is a Volvo B21ET which Alfredsson bored out 0.5mm to bring displacement up from 2.1 to 2.15 liters. The intercooler is off a Volvo FL6 diesel truck. The cylinder heads are from a Volvo-Penta 16-valve marine engine...

..The 240's current compressor comes off a 7-liter Volvo truck engine, but he has plans to use an even larger turbo from a 9-liter Volvo truck powerplant. Alfredsson dead-lifts it from the desk with a large grin. It resembles an industrial vacuum cleaner."

"Current output according to the SQR chassis dyno--running 1.95 bar (28 psi) of boost--is 595 hp. He's run upwards of 2.8 bar (41 psi!!) on the street, and currently has the engine rev-limited to 7800 rpm, after a dyno run ending at exactly 9473 rpm instigated an engine-internals catastrophe of biblical proportions."
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...
 
"My labor is no easier, but now I know I'm not alone" - Uriah Heep, Lady In Black

Thanks Famine.
 
Amen!
The Gillet Vertigo has a lot more HP than it had in GT3. Is this a realistic version of the real thing?
 
Hang on. Different block, different head, 2.1L originally not 2.3 ..... that's kind of like "tuning" my 1.1 Ford engine by selectively replacing some parts with a 289cu in V8, add a supercharger and hey presto, I'm getting 500BHP and more torque than a room full of women from my 1.1 Fiesta :lol:

famine's post is an accurate response to soptom's post, as was intended, but it definitely is far from justifying the inclusion of a 600BHP tuning option for the 240, so don't celebrate just yet.

Or, we can look at it another way. PD, could you please add a tuning option that allows me to drop the McLaren F1 GTR V12 engine into my 120d?

Cheers. :cheers:
 
Alfaholic
Hang on. Different block, different head, 2.1L originally not 2.3 ..... that's kind of like "tuning" my 1.1 Ford engine by selectively replacing some parts with a 289cu in V8
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Well... it'd actually be the other way round - replacing a 2.3 with a 2.1 is downsizing... In any case, I believe the car was a 2 litre originally, so it's a slight increase - though it's from the same engine family (B20F originally, B21ET now). Nevertheless, he's strengthened the engine (which GT4 doesn't accommodate), then added the biggest turbo and intercooler he could find (which GT4 does), THEN turned the boost up (which, again, GT4 doesn't include). So, in just the basic respect of putting a stupidly large turbo and intercooler on, the GT4 model is a bit of a step away from the reality.
 
Famine
Well... it'd actually be the other way round - replacing a 2.3 with a 2.1 is downsizing... In any case, I believe the car was a 2 litre originally, so it's a slight increase - though it's from the same engine family (B20F originally, B21ET now). Nevertheless, he's strengthened the engine (which GT4 doesn't accommodate), then added the biggest turbo and intercooler he could find (which GT4 does), THEN turned the boost up (which, again, GT4 doesn't include). So, in just the basic respect of putting a stupidly large turbo and intercooler on, the GT4 model is a bit of a step away from the reality.
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Yeah but no but yeah but....

oh ok I stand corrected. 👍
 
:lol:

To be totally fair, while 600hp 240s do exist (or rather at least one does), it's a little extreme to be quoting. GT4's peak power of 285hp (as quoted - I haven't been that bothered to check) seems a little low with this as a real world "benchmark". The only thing this guy's done to get there that you can't do in GT4 is turn the boost up - and the boost gauge on some GT4 cars does reach 2 bar, more than this guy's 1.8 - yet falls 300hp short of the mark. YES he's changed the engine - albeit marginally - but we're still seeing less than 50% of what CAN happen in the real world.

Translate this to Skylines. That'd mean a maximum 590hp in GT4...
 
soptom
I would imagine there isn't a single 600hp Volvo 240 on the planet, you must have some kind of realism.[/url]
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There's probably more 600hp 240s than 1100hp Chaparral 2Js ;-)
 
I'll take the 'Vette, Viper, F/A-18, Charger, and Chapparal, please :D

And as for the Volvo, don't you think that the turbocharger upgrades in the game are supposed to include modifications to the engine internals? You certainly wouldn't pay $60k for a turbocharger and ducting alone, unless you were asking someone to carve it out of iron by hand. Plus, very few standard engines can take a 200% power increase by slapping on a turbocharger in their stock form, so for GT4 to do this it has to implicitly contain some internal engine mods (rods, pistons, maybe a crank, different cam, etc.). Apparently they just decided that certain cars can only be boosted to a certain level and still maintain driveability. Look at the Escudo's powerband. If you turbocharged a Volvo 240 to 600hp (as that guy has done) you'd probably have almost no power below 5000rpm without a complicated multi-turbo setup. I think in the game they only allow you to modify street cars to numbers that would still allow reasonable driveability. Or maybe it's completely arbitrary :lol:
 
JTSnooks
Or maybe it's completely arbitrary :lol:
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I'll go with that.
Has anyone ever actually seen a 1000hp NA Viper? I know there are near-megawatt turbo Vipers, but they won't let you do that in the game.
 
Gran turismo's tuning is one of it's best attributes as well as one of it's worst. it's really unrealistic. The fact that you cant do displacement increase for most cars. some of the cars you cant turbocharge are stupid and some you can are even stupider. and the worst is the level of na tuning you can do. you just cant get that kind of power out of an engine without bolting some form of forced induction. turbo is pretty acurate this time around. most of them will see around 200 hp per liter, some alittle more which is accurate. I just wish more cars could be turbocharged. their are some really common examples of cars that have been turboed in RL but cant be in GT. Vipers and Camaro's have been but can't in GT, and for some reason it seems honda dosent want us to be able to force feed their V6's. The accord(US) acura CL and even the NSX refuse to be turboed, but real life versions definately have been.
 
In real life you can turbocharge anything you want, some will just be more expensive than others. And 1000hp out of an 8.3L NA engine isn't impossible, it's just a lot harder to do than with turbos.
 
JTSnooks
In real life you can turbocharge anything you want, some will just be more expensive than others. And 1000hp out of an 8.3L NA engine isn't impossible, it's just a lot harder to do than with turbos.
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1000 hp from an 8.3 liter N/A engine: Yes

1000 hp at 5600 rpm from a two valve 8.3 liter N/A engine: NO

Besides it gets worse.
 
Hehe, ok, the rpm would be a bit higher, probably 6500-7000rpm, but you can still get it with 2 valves :)

And I'm not happy with the GT series' modification system either...at least as far as engines go. I've got no problem with the suspension mods and stuff. The engine mods are pretty much retarded, but at least they're better than they were in previous GTs. For instance, I remember quite a few cars getting over 1000hp in GT1 that shouldn't have been able to at all. It does need some serious overhauling to be realistic, and ideally you'd be able to change your cam specs, valve sizes, rod length, stroke, bore, intake, fuel pump....on and on and on. But that would exclude 90% of the people who play from being able to actually do anything, so they have to keep it simple.
 
*sigh*... just to add my grumbles to this post.

A lot of cars that have widely available kits for displacement increase are not given this option in GT4. So far, I've only been able to do it with Skylines. Most Japanese cars can have different rods and pistons swapped in for a .2 liter displacement increase for turbo applications, and this is relatively cheap, too... (should cost 5000cr.).

In turbo application, an Infiniti G20/Primera 2.0 Te should get between 400-500 streetable hp, not 300, like most FFs. 300 is accurate for most econoboxes, though, as a realistic hp level achieveable without blowing your engine and/or transmission every other week.

As previously stated in other posts, I'm all out for wild street mods... as long as they're just as reliable or unreliable in-game as they are in real-life. :lol:
 
Seriously, since when can you not bore and stroke an American engine? People always complain about how under-engineered they are, but all that means is there's lots of room for modifications. The engine in MY car is bored out .030"! I could bore it out as much as .090" and still have it be reliable! I've never understood that about the game. For some reason it seems only the smallest engines are allowed displacement increases when they are the ones with the least leeway in their cylinder bores. Go figure, yet one more thing screwy with the game. But, that's why I just drive for the fun of it :D
 
same as the japanese cars, i want a 1000BHP evo..
or a 1200 hp GTR skyline
 
Well, the power figures and available upgrades definitely aren't accurate in terms of real-life. They've simply built into the game a mostly generic upgrade system. It works pretty well overall, but I have to agree that I wish they had researched the upgrades and made them realistic for each car. That's just to much to ask though! Can you imagine the amount of work that would take. Insane!

Still, I was deeply disappointed that I can't tune the old VWs, especially the '68
Ghia, to anywhere near their real-life potential (classic VW tuners routinely push well over 200hp out of that tiny little air-cooled engine).

Also, how they managed to overlook the fact that nearly *all* the classic american vehicles in this game could have displacement upgrades in real-life. That's a pretty big oversight.
 
panjandrum
Well, the power figures and available upgrades definitely aren't accurate in terms of real-life. They've simply built into the game a mostly generic upgrade system. It works pretty well overall, but I have to agree that I wish they had researched the upgrades and made them realistic for each car. That's just to much to ask though! Can you imagine the amount of work that would take. Insane!
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Yeah, it would be a lot of work. But then again, the game was in development for years...
 
i'd like to take this moment to point out that on the cover it says "the real driving simulator" not "the real engine tuning simulator"
 
Greycap
I used many search attributes and found nothing, so here it is:

Why can't some cars be tuned to their full potential? For example the Volvo 240 has a 2300cc engine that in real life could be turbocharged to about 600 BHP. In Gran Turismo, however, the most you get out of it is a ridiculous 285 BHP. Why can't we tune our cars to the maximum?

P.S. The Volvo is grossly overweight too...
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my meaning is that you should send this question to PD. Cause we didn't made the game, they did!
 
Dr_Watson
i'd like to take this moment to point out that on the cover it says "the real driving simulator" not "the real engine tuning simulator"
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:lol: :lol: :lol:
 
well its crap at that too, look at the grip levels.
go play enthusia if you want the real driving simulator
 
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