Ridiculous power figures on some cars

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SUROKIA
well its crap at that too, look at the grip levels.
go play enthusia if you want the real driving simulator

you mean GTR on the pc.
 
SUROKIA
same as the japanese cars, i want a 1000BHP evo..
or a 1200 hp GTR skyline
Realisticly, a 1200 hp GTR skyline wouldn't be much good on a race track. Cars like that are mostly made for drag racing or simply the 1000hp wank factor. Yes, there's plenty of 1000hp skylines around but I seriously doubt they'd get you round the track a hell of a lot quicker than a lesser powered skyline because the minute you hit full throttle you'll light the wheels up. The ATTESSA system is good but it certainly wasn't built for 1000+hp.

What I'd like to see is fairer turbo mods. I think it's stupid you can turbo a Primera but not a Silvia Q's. Both cars have SR20de engines. Same goes for the GTS25 skyline, why the hell can't this be turbo'd? Later model Skylines had RB25det's so why can't I turbo an RB25de?
 
285BHP for a 240 is ok, most of the non-Japanese manufacturers get screwed in terms of upgrades anyway. But yeah the weight does annoy me, I'd be suprised if it was more than 1600KG let alone 1900KG or whatever the stupid amount is in GT4. Even with the lightening it weighs about 1550KG.

According to Carfolio Here a 240 Turbo estate weighs 1450KG as I would expect. Volvo have a reputation for building 2 ton bricks, yet in reality they don't weigh much then medium sized Fords (Sierras, Mondeos) etc... Maybe its just because there actually built with some structural strength and not tinfoil like most 80s and early 90s cars ;)

As a reference our old 240 went into the back of a Sierra and utterly destroyed it at atleast 30mph where our 240 broke its light, bumper, grill and of course the bonnet bent like it was supposed to (crumple zones). Yet the 240 weighed only like 150KG more and yes the accident was my dads fault :lol:

P.S. we were told it was nigh on impossible to straighten out the bumper 'girder' underneath ;) Some people had apparently tried to straighten them by attaching them to a Land Rover, but no use.
 
Mad Murphy NZ
Realisticly, a 1200 hp GTR skyline wouldn't be much good on a race track. Cars like that are mostly made for drag racing or simply the 1000hp wank factor. Yes, there's plenty of 1000hp skylines around but I seriously doubt they'd get you round the track a hell of a lot quicker than a lesser powered skyline because the minute you hit full throttle you'll light the wheels up. The ATTESSA system is good but it certainly wasn't built for 1000+hp.

What I'd like to see is fairer turbo mods. I think it's stupid you can turbo a Primera but not a Silvia Q's. Both cars have SR20de engines. Same goes for the GTS25 skyline, why the hell can't this be turbo'd? Later model Skylines had RB25det's so why can't I turbo an RB25de?

The Hommell, the Tommy Kaira ZZ-S, the Primera Te.... the list of SR20 cars goes on and on... and the numbers and upgrades achieveable on them are so disparate it's maddening...! :sick:

To be fair, you're not going to "street" tune an SR20 to more than 300 in most cases, but 400+ is a realistic maximum number for most applications... then again, the SR20's in all these cars are in different states of tune, and some of the SR20DETs have extra hardware that allow them to stand up to more boost.
 
Yeah, but when you pay $75,000 for engine tuning they'd better beef up the internals...and everything else! My engine only cost $800 to rebuild, and I can buy an entire built-up street legal 600+hp version of it for $3,000. What the crap kind of an engine costs $75,000 just for internal mods or turbos? Even hennessey won't charge you that much for a 1000hp Viper!
 
who the hell would want to tune a volvo wagon to 600 hp anyhow? :dunce:
 
Whilst on the subject of just-plain-strange tuning...

Can someone tell me what the hell happened to the Escudos power output? In GT3 it was 1881HP, in GT4 it's... less than 1,200???

Not only that, but it seems to have lost a HUGE amount of MPH at the top end... Gt3 version would do close on 300mph (I clocked one over 490kph regularly) but even with NOS running full burn, the "new and improved" version got nowhere near that...

Seems a few cars got tuned up (Gillette) and some tuned down... (skylines!) ummm, why?! I mean, to what purpose... there seems no rhyme or reason behind it!
 
ftb, i'd say thats a good thing. the escudo sucked majoly due to its upgrade potential in 3
 
Ok guy you are forgetting one thing, all the cars(stock) in GT series can only be upgraded to manufacturers max specs. Didn't any of you guys notice that once you start adding aftermarket parts to the engine, your warranty is void. Guess why, so you can't blame them if anything happens to you while driving a car with parts they did not specifically design for your engine. GT series only use manufacturers theoretical numbers sometimes it's kind of ambitious, like escudo and others.
 
Or all you losers could stop complaining and make your own damn game. That's all I've seen you do in this thread, complain complain complain. Do you idiots even have a CLUE what is involved in putting together a game of this size? Why don't you all shutup, go play forza and complain on their forums.

God, I love it, some dolt up there is complaining that his escudo can't do 300 anymore! How exactly is that realistic? PD tried to fix unrealistic things from gt3. That was one of them.
Another kid is sitting there claiming he can buy a souped up 600 hp engine for 3 grand. Yeah right....Loser. Go play NFSU2. Not to mention, your 3000 dollar 600 HP engine wouldn't last more than 20 miles at real racing conditions. Meanwhile, that 75000 dollar Upgrade to the Viper will let it run full bore for an entire 500 mile 3 and a half hour race.......and still be running strong. Campare that smartass.
There's a HUGE difference between some fanboy souping up his old car for a few qaurter miles and a real full on racing engine.

Get some common sense, try to do it yourself before you all jump on the bandwagon and bash PD.
btw, when was the last time any of you said anything about what PD DID get right? Or how no other racing game comes anywhere near as close to GT4 in visuals? And driving? This is a simulator. Personally, Forza was dumbed down so you could use a controller. GT wasn't. It's the real deal. Not perfect, but hey, next time you see something that is perfect, let me know. I'll give you a star or something.

Who's yer pal?
S31Ender
 
S31Ender
Or all you losers could stop complaining and make your own damn game. That's all I've seen you do in this thread, complain complain complain. Do you idiots even have a CLUE what is involved in putting together a game of this size? Why don't you all shutup, go play forza and complain on their forums.

God, I love it, some dolt up there is complaining that his escudo can't do 300 anymore! How exactly is that realistic? PD tried to fix unrealistic things from gt3. That was one of them.
Another kid is sitting there claiming he can buy a souped up 600 hp engine for 3 grand. Yeah right....Loser. Go play NFSU2. Not to mention, your 3000 dollar 600 HP engine wouldn't last more than 20 miles at real racing conditions. Meanwhile, that 75000 dollar Upgrade to the Viper will let it run full bore for an entire 500 mile 3 and a half hour race.......and still be running strong. Campare that smartass.
There's a HUGE difference between some fanboy souping up his old car for a few qaurter miles and a real full on racing engine.

Get some common sense, try to do it yourself before you all jump on the bandwagon and bash PD.
btw, when was the last time any of you said anything about what PD DID get right? Or how no other racing game comes anywhere near as close to GT4 in visuals? And driving? This is a simulator. Personally, Forza was dumbed down so you could use a controller. GT wasn't. It's the real deal. Not perfect, but hey, next time you see something that is perfect, let me know. I'll give you a star or something.

Who's yer pal?
S31Ender

We want to carp, we will carp. Get off our case. We're not calling GT4 shyte, we're just saying it's unrealistic in some aspects. And that's truth. Sure, you can't build a huge hp motor for pennies, but high end turbo builds don't really cost as much as indicated in the game. As such, it's a factor linked to gameplay. Some of the prices are artificially linked to power outputs in the interest of balancing gameplay and simplifying the upgrading system. But it could be better.

This is a forum. Where else can people carp? Let the whiny b*tches be whiny b*tches. :lol: That's what forums are for.

Perfect? Real life. Give me a star. :lol:
 
Since of course mechanical reliability is a vital cog in the Gran Turismo machine...
 
Wow, great ad hominem unreasearched attack there, buddy. For your information there are a lot of 600hp+ NA builds of engines for my car that are perfectly streetable, reliable, and cost under 5 grand. It's not that hard when you've got almost 8 liters of displacement to work with. And as Famine pointed out, what difference does the road reliability of an engine really make in the game if there's no reliability issues in it? I certainly wouldn't want to develop the game, but that doesn't mean I can't discuss what I find unrealistic about it. I paid my $40 for the game, so I have the right to assess it. And what does any of this have to do with Forza? I've never even played the game, it doesn't look as good as GT4 to me. I love the GT games, that doesn't mean they're perfect, and I can point out the stupid things in the game if I want. I'm an engineer, pointing out flaws is what I do.
 
So what? You can buy a 600 hp engine for less then 75000. But not a full out racing engine meant for the track. And that's what this game is. A Track racing game. There is no street here, and thus, pd didn't account for what you could do on the street.
And once again. I will state that your (now it's 5grand...hmmm) 5,000 dollar 600hp engine will run fine drving around, pushing it a little bit. But when you put it under full racing condition. Running it close to redline every shift, as hard as you can push it, for 3 and ahlf hours straight (which you're a goddamn liar if you say you've ever done that on the street) YOUR ENGINE WILL BREAK. Garaunteed. Everytime. In fact, I highly doubt you'd make it past the one hour mark. Whereas a track engine can run that hard, that hot, for that long. Yes, they break sometimes but not anywhere near the percentages that a street engine would under that same conditions.
Street vs. Track. That's the price difference. Two totally different beasts of an engine. Both 600hp. Get it? So next time YOU do YOUR research before telling me to do mine.
 
Ok, well if you're going to go there, race engines are rarely built out of the same mold as a street engine. You'd be hard-pressed to find any endurance racecar that had its block lifted directly from a production car. So if you want to be more precise about it, NO amount of "modification" to a street engine would be able to produce a race engine. So really, you're paying $75,000 for a completely new engine that is roughly based (read "same number of cylinders") on a street engine by some company. Race blocks usually aren't even built by the company that produces the car! And these engines will rarely run over $50,000, especially if it really is based on a production block. You can buy an entire race-prepped Viper Competition Coupe for $130,000, and somehow I doubt the engine accounts to 75,000 of those dollars. Granted, the engine only makes 520hp, but in Viper is an extreme case in GT4. How about paying $75,000 to get less than 400hp out of a Volvo, which is an extreme case on the lower end? The point is, it shouldn't cost $75,000 for 1030hp out of an 8.3 liter engine, yet still cost $75,000 for 300hp out of a 2 liter engine. It seems that for some cars they went to the extreme in how much you can tune it, and in some they stayed very conservative, yet they all cost the same amount.

BTW, 600+hp could be had on my car pretty easily for $3,000, but that's if I did all the machine work myself, which I certainly can't do. For a fully-assembled race-ready engine it would be around 7,000-8,000 for 600+hp on pump gas. With an aftermarket block (like most race engines) it can be turboed to over 2000hp (obviously not on pump gas), which obviously wouldn't be very tractable, but is built and sold, and runs high 6s in the quarter.
 
BMW used engine blocks from their production cars for their 1400+bhp F1 engines in the 80s.
 
Dr_Watson
umm... these are race-ready motors and you can get 600hp for under $20k
and thats a full crate engine, not just a rebuilt streeter.

These engines are the options for Ultima cars. The Ultimas are road legal, so these are just "rebuilt streeters", are they not?

http://www.amerspeed.com/ultima.htm
Ultima Sports Ltd. sets world beating, certified performance records for road cars
 
Wow, those are awfully expensive for Chevy blocks. Here's a fully-assembled complete Pontiac blocked engine that makes 660hp on pump gas for $11,000: http://www.butlerperformance.com/products/engines_assemblies/474_cu_in.html
As it says, if using racing gas it will make over 750 NA, all for $11,000. Here's a quick overview of what else they build (pretty much anything Pontiac), although for most of the prices you have to call them. http://www.butlerperformance.com/products/engines_assemblies/engineS.htm
They have a video of a 7-second quarter-mile run using one of their twin-turbo engines on there too.
 
ving
who the hell would want to tune a volvo wagon to 600 hp anyhow? :dunce:

Why would you want to drive a Fiat? ;)

S31Ender
So what? You can buy a 600 hp engine for less then 75000. But not a full out racing engine meant for the track. And that's what this game is. A Track racing game. There is no street here, and thus, pd didn't account for what you could do on the street.

Well if someone was to be as pedantic as you were earlier, they might say it isn't a track racing game as there are street courses. Its and I quote 'The real DRIVING simulator' not the real track racing simulator!11` Wow I never thought I'd say that daft sentence.
 
I beleive the upgrading system in GT, though a little pricey in some regards, and limited in some respects (like the SR20 motors, and general lack of engine overbore-ability), I consider such issues a niggly, and overall, the tuning system is well balanced.

For whatever the data and system that made up the final tuning 'statistics', it probably represents a well balanced, real world cross section of the kind of results similar to what the average high end tuner will go to on most production cars.

600 HP Volvo 240 estates, on a worldwide scale, are at the very extreme end of the tuning scale. I'm sure if one really tried, one could fit a jet engine into the confines the big wagon, give it wings, and make it a true flying brick. There is no limit to imagination, but in reality, for a game that is trying to model so many other elements, it buck has to stop somewhere.

It might come as a disapointment to some, but to me, it's more of a reality check, and keeps the game focused on being a driving simulator, for realistic cars, that don't go into the realm of a billionaire revheads wet dream, or some nut who's spent far too much on his car and could have bought something like an Enzo with the same amount of cash.

If one were to do up a Ford Ka with engine blocks, parts and ancillaries from their Heavy Vehicles division catalogue, though possible to do, the result would be considered extreme......would it not?

I'm also certain it would be a pig of a thing to drive too. But then I'm sure some of you would complain that it should be easier to handle the car...... yeah...... in the process of doing this, you compromise the GT series from realistic, to unrealistic.

Asking PD to model all the mods possible to every car in game, is like asking them to model the human behaivour. What you might want is not an arcade mode, but a mode, where you simply punch in the power and weight for any given 3D car model.......

Because such a feature would be open to obuse, and likely ruin the challenge of the game, it'd be handy if this mode didn't impact on the game in the slightest, nor ruin the concept of Arcade mode, running the cars in their near stock form. I'd recommend the new mode to be called BSA mode. A standing for arcade. I'll let you guess BS for yourselves.

Should such extreme 'possibilities' in regard to car mods to be modelled into the game in it's current format? I don't think so. Let the morons at EA do something with that, they might think it's cool, but if the bread and butter of a driving sim (the physics and realism) isn't up to scratch, I sure as hell won't buy it.



Just my 2 cents.
 
I don't know about the thread starter, but I'm certainly NOT asking for them to make any more "extreme" power tuning, as some of it's already a little over the top. What I want is for it to actually be MORE realistic, not less. I know it would be nearly impossible to actually implement given the scope of the game, but we can dream, right? The nearly across-the-board even prices for any car for a wide range of horsepower is just insane. The fact that I HAVE to spend as much as an Enzo just to get one car to a 50% power increase, yet the same amount of money on a different car might buy me a 100% power increase is crazy. Who's going to spend $100k on a car's engine to still make less than 200hp? If a car's engine is deemed only strong enough to produce 150hp fully modded, why make us spend $100k to get it there? I'm sure in real life taking a VW Beetle engine to its absolute limits doesn't cost that much. The lower the limits the less the cost. Once again, I'm not pissed off about it, and I'm not even really complaining, I'm just pointing it out, and how it could be improved.
 
ozanzac
For whatever the data and system that made up the final tuning 'statistics', it probably represents a well balanced, real world cross section of the kind of results similar to what the average high end tuner will go to on most production cars.

And that's probably why us SR20-lovers will never get our power due... the SR20 just happens to fall in the statistical cross section relating to N/A 2 liter FFs in some places, and Turbo 2 liter FRs in others. :indiff:

JTSnooks
I don't know about the thread starter, but I'm certainly NOT asking for them to make any more "extreme" power tuning, as some of it's already a little over the top. What I want is for it to actually be MORE realistic, not less. I know it would be nearly impossible to actually implement given the scope of the game, but we can dream, right? The nearly across-the-board even prices for any car for a wide range of horsepower is just insane. The fact that I HAVE to spend as much as an Enzo just to get one car to a 50% power increase, yet the same amount of money on a different car might buy me a 100% power increase is crazy. Who's going to spend $100k on a car's engine to still make less than 200hp? If a car's engine is deemed only strong enough to produce 150hp fully modded, why make us spend $100k to get it there? I'm sure in real life taking a VW Beetle engine to its absolute limits doesn't cost that much. The lower the limits the less the cost. Once again, I'm not pissed off about it, and I'm not even really complaining, I'm just pointing it out, and how it could be improved.

👍 absolutely agree.
 
In terms of engine modifications I would like to be able to increase engine displacement on any car. Basically all the engine tune options should be available on all the cars. I'd like that feature in GT5.

However although this may be good on GT5 (might). All that extra power is useless on GT4 for me anyway. See, I mainly play multiplayer in GT4. In multiplayer garage cars don't have any TCS or ASC plus if the car is not a race car only sport tyres can be used. Now, I'm an excellent tuner in the GT series and even I can't get a +500Bhp car to handle decently. On race cars it's a bit more forgiving due to racing tyres being allowed and all that extra downforce.

People really want 600Bhp+ Volvo and 1000Bhp Mitsubishi. Try driving a 2 player race with tyre wear on, sport tyres and no TCS and ASC in those cars. I wish you luck. ;) Try keeping the power completely stock and upgrading everything else, it's where the real skill is. You'll get some fantastic handling and much faster lap times.

Off-Topic: I also like to see in GT5 different sized alloy wheels (15", 17", 22" etc.), larger selection of spoilers (front and rear), visibly different exhausts, visibly different bonnet and roof scoops, choice of different bonnets. Oh and custom number plate. 👍
 
Cobra_UK
People really want 600Bhp+ Volvo and 1000Bhp Mitsubishi. Try driving a 2 player race with tyre wear on, sport tyres and no TCS and ASC in those cars. I wish you luck. ;) Try keeping the power completely stock and upgrading everything else, it's where the real skill is. You'll get some fantastic handling and much faster lap times[/COLOR].
That's a sweeping statement. Personally, I think driving stock cars on N tyres well is where the real skill lies, everybody can make a stock power car handle if it's got racing suspension, brakes etc.
Off-Topic: I also like to see in GT5 different sized alloy wheels (15", 17", 22" etc.), larger selection of spoilers (front and rear), visibly different exhausts, visibly different bonnet and roof scoops, choice of different bonnets. Oh and custom number plate. 👍
Why would fancy bonnets and roof scoops improve a driving simulator game? There are plenty of different games that cater for that kind of thing, GT5 should NOT be one of them.
 
soptom
Why would fancy bonnets and roof scoops improve a driving simulator game? There are plenty of different games that cater for that kind of thing, GT5 should NOT be one of them.

If they were functional as apposed to those people stick on there cars to make them "look better" then there is a chance of a performance boost for example a subaru impretza bonnet scoop its there to get as much air into the engine bay and onto the intercooler increasing performance.

I dont think they guy is talking about 5ft bonnet scoops or spoilers made out of mdf with swirly bits wich revolve when you drive along, just additions wich enhance the downforce of the car and maximise performance
 
De Bolle
Amen!
The Gillet Vertigo has a lot more HP than it had in GT3. Is this a realistic version of the real thing?
HP is about 2,5 times the real thing and the car is too light also.

I asked on some Belgian GT forums if anyone knew what the GT4 Vertigo is modelled from, but noone could give a clue. I consider it as a worthless fantasy car, while the GT3 Vertigo was a good model of the older r/w car.

See also : https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=53016
 
amp88
BMW used engine blocks from their production cars for their 1400+bhp F1 engines in the 80s.

Truth but not all the truth.

To be specific, they used pre-owned (that means used) production engine blocks from what I suppose were 3 series cars. They found that the repeated heat cycles experienced by blocks that had covered over 20000 miles or more (can't remember if they wanted any specific mileage, just lots of miles) had a stress relieving effect on the block, removing any weak points in the metal matrix that would have made the block unreliable under racing conditions if raced from zero mileage.

Another interesting point: These were 1.5L 4 cylinder in-line engines, and the turbo was probably almost as big as the block :lol:
 
I can't believe I am stepping into this conversation.

Does it really matter if the engine upgrades are over priced as long as they are practically dropping cash in our laps?
 
amp88
These engines are the options for Ultima cars. The Ultimas are road legal, so these are just "rebuilt streeters", are they not?

yes, the ultima is a streetcar... but those engines are prepared for racing.
hence the reason they come with a road race oil pump and you can add-on holley race carbs.

that car isn't even really designed to be a street car, its more of a race-car you can drive to the track.
 
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