RUF, RUF, and more RUF

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I read things like " Porsche 911 C. S is the most devastating track day machine straight from the show room for decent money" and then" no it is not take the TVR ..." I mean, and that was mentioned before by other members, you always have to think of the money you spend . The 911 is, well, really expensive for his 350 hp and it is not too spectacular either... it's fast of course but if you buy the Exige as mentioned before, or an EVO 8, WRX STi, 350 Z and tune it with 20 thousand dollar you save another 20000 dollar at least and the car you get will very likly beat the 911 with a much more spectacular performance ( The Porsche is very smooth and not too loud etc, nice for people who like it that way, but not really exciting ).... Idon't like the supercar hype, I mean there a lot of rare beautiful and exclusive supersport cars for the richest, but these cars are not always as great as they seem to be (wouldn't want to drive a SLR with automatic transmission and two tonns of weight )
and well... kind of off topic...so what I wanted to say is that a Porsche means great performance and status but it is really not the non plus ultra for a racer.... a future GT2 might be, but hey for what? 180000 $?....
 
Max_DC
( The Porsche is very smooth and not too loud etc, nice for people who like it that way, but not really exciting )
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I do have to ask, have you ever driven a Porsche?

Because I have driven a number of 911's over the years (as well as both generations of the Boxter) and "not really exciting" would not be the phrase that springs to mind.

With the older 911 models, in particular the 80's turbos the car gave a definate feeling at times of wanting to kill you.

Now while the engineers at Porsche have worked wonders with the everyday driveability of the 911 range, when driven hard every model of 911 feels 'edgey'.

Exciting is certainly a term I would use to describe driving a car with the majority of its mass over the rear axle, you can't defy the laws of physics and the engines placement makes the car potentially eager to swap ends if you lose it (and I have done on track/proving grounds).
 
Scaff
I do have to ask, have you ever driven a Porsche?

Because I have driven a number of 911's over the years (as well as both generations of the Boxter) and "not really exciting" would not be the phrase that springs to mind.

With the older 911 models, in particular the 80's turbos the car gave a definate feeling at times of wanting to kill you.

Now while the engineers at Porsche have worked wonders with the everyday driveability of the 911 range, when driven hard every model of 911 feels 'edgey'.

Exciting is certainly a term I would use to describe driving a car with the majority of its mass over the rear axle, you can't defy the laws of physics and the engines placement makes the car potentially eager to swap ends if you lose it (and I have done on track/proving grounds).
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Well, I've driven a Porsche Boxter S, and I tell you what, my Sti is by far more spectacular : OK, it is a perfectly balanced car, probably too perfect... First thing is, that it is no turbo, a NA machine has a constant way of presenting you its power... more and more and more... with a turbo you have an explosion (at least it's the case with my oldschool single turbo) ... I mean I also like the way for example Honda Vtecs rev up to 8 or 9 thousand, but it is not so spectacular...
I was not referring to the old Porsches, these cars are definitly as you described them...
But take the new Porsche 911, it is rather heavy equipped with a lot of hightech luxury that makes the car atrractive to those who can afford them : midforties and fifties drifing these cars to fine restaurants.... of course you can have fun with a rear wheel drive car with 350 hp, but you might get twice the fun for half the money, that is what I wanted to say... why not with a used Porsche turbo of the 1980's if you don't like my japanese alternatives...
 
Max_DC
Well, I've driven a Porsche Boxter S, and I tell you what, my Sti is by far more spectacular : OK, it is a perfectly balanced car, probably too perfect... First thing is, that it is no turbo, a NA machine has a constant way of presenting you its power... more and more and more... with a turbo you have an explosion (at least it's the case with my oldschool single turbo) ... I mean I also like the way for example Honda Vtecs rev up to 8 or 9 thousand, but it is not so spectacular...
I was not referring to the old Porsches, these cars are definitly as you described them...
But take the new Porsche 911, it is rather heavy equipped with a lot of hightech luxury that makes the car atrractive to those who can afford them : midforties and fifties drifing these cars to fine restaurants.... of course you can have fun with a rear wheel drive car with 350 hp, but you might get twice the fun for half the money, that is what I wanted to say... why not with a used Porsche turbo of the 1980's if you don't like my japanese alternatives...
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That explains quite a lot Max, the Boxter and 911 are very different cars.

Even modern 911's (remember the 911 has always been well equiped in relation to the era it was built in - so the equipment and refinment levels are not a new trait) are brutal and exciting cars.

The NA vs Turbo argument is one of personal preference and with the 911 range you get the choice.

However you may have given the game away with regard to your "not that exciting" phrase; you are right that the average 911 owner is mid forties to fifties and uses the car just as a prestige mode of transport. That however makes the owner "not that exciting", not the car. Don'tmake the mistake of judging the car by it average owner.

In regard to the Japanese alternatives, I happen to love them, I'm a big Evo fan myself and would rather drive an Evo that an '80's 911 (I have a family and want to live). I used to work for the Renault-Nissan group and have driven R34 GTRs quite a few times, as well as my job allowing for plenty of exposure to a wide range of cars.

The 911 thing however is hard to put into words, once you have driven one for any distance, the car as a whole package (including it weakness' such as engine location and price) starts to fall into place.

If you evet get the chance to drive a 911 (and it does not matter which model), jump at it; I'm quite sure that once you have you will never lookat one qquite the same way again.
 
Scaff
That explains quite a lot Max, the Boxter and 911 are very different cars.

Even modern 911's (remember the 911 has always been well equiped in relation to the era it was built in - so the equipment and refinment levels are not a new trait) are brutal and exciting cars.

The NA vs Turbo argument is one of personal preference and with the 911 range you get the choice.

However you may have given the game away with regard to your "not that exciting" phrase; you are right that the average 911 owner is mid forties to fifties and uses the car just as a prestige mode of transport. That however makes the owner "not that exciting", not the car. Don'tmake the mistake of judging the car by it average owner.

In regard to the Japanese alternatives, I happen to love them, I'm a big Evo fan myself and would rather drive an Evo that an '80's 911 (I have a family and want to live). I used to work for the Renault-Nissan group and have driven R34 GTRs quite a few times, as well as my job allowing for plenty of exposure to a wide range of cars.

The 911 thing however is hard to put into words, once you have driven one for any distance, the car as a whole package (including it weakness' such as engine location and price) starts to fall into place.

If you evet get the chance to drive a 911 (and it does not matter which model), jump at it; I'm quite sure that once you have you will never lookat one qquite the same way again.
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Well, I should drive a 911 before making a overall judgement, that is true....
However, a new standart 911 with a 350 hp NA engine and (I have to guess here)
probably 1400 kg of weight costs 75000 EUR. It's hard to believe for me that it can compete with sports cars that cost 35000-50000 EUR tuned until the price is equal
in terms of track performance and the, as i have to admit, not very objective term " fun".... I mean think of a 350 Z equipped with 40000 EUR of tuning... I mean after that the car probably has 450 hp and perfect wheels, tires, suspension and has lost a lot of weight (carbon etc).
Well you seem to be one of the last ones in this forum who needs that info as you are quite a pro in the automotive field and I will take your advice and testdrive a 911 as soon as possible.
But in the end it's all about the money isn't it. If you can afford 20 cars then things change, but if you can't, a 911 just seems not the perfect choice for a racer... although I accept and understand zo a certain degree the Porsche hype.
 
JayJam
Liveforspeed wrote

"Besides a TVR T350 could beat it on a track and theyre almost 20k cheaper."

That's if you can get it to start up :)

I remember going to see the first T350 straight from blackpool at my local TVR Dealer. You have'nt seen anything like it, No quality control, gaps between the rear screen and back swage line were diabolical. And the dealer was trying to take orders from this example. 👎

Back on topic: what colour would you all choose on the RS blue or red? Blue for me
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That is shocking, but I have to say I've seen and sat in a number of T350's and none of them have been ba quality. Then again since that Russian guy took TVR over they have made advances in quality and if you saw the first T350 that was before the takeover so that might explain it, but the showcar was first class (as they always are). I would take a TVR over a Porsche, Ferrari or Jag XK-R, the only car I would choose over one is an Aston DB9 or Vanquish.
 
live4speed
That is shocking, but I have to say I've seen and sat in a number of T350's and none of them have been ba quality. Then again since that Russian guy took TVR over they have made advances in quality and if you saw the first T350 that was before the takeover so that might explain it, but the showcar was first class (as they always are). I would take a TVR over a Porsche, Ferrari or Jag XK-R, the only car I would choose over one is an Aston DB9 or Vanquish.
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You're wrong... you should get a T440R instead of the DB9 or Vanquish... :sly:

Back to RUF, though -- my favorite is the RGT. Shame it's not turbocharged... :indiff:

Turbo... :drool:
 
live4speed
That is shocking, but I have to say I've seen and sat in a number of T350's and none of them have been ba quality. Then again since that Russian guy took TVR over they have made advances in quality and if you saw the first T350 that was before the takeover so that might explain it, but the showcar was first class (as they always are). I would take a TVR over a Porsche, Ferrari or Jag XK-R, the only car I would choose over one is an Aston DB9 or Vanquish.
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Over a Porche, Ferrari or Jag? I can understand a Jag but not the other two!!!
 
I love TVR's, simply put, in comparison to TVR I find Porsches boring, Ferrari's don't appeal as much as they used to, TVR's though are incredibly light, have the best styling out of the all the companies mentioned exept for Aston Martin and they go like stink, TVR Typhon is faster than a Ferrari F50, the Sagaris will probably beat any road Ferrari barring the Enzo on a circuit too. And finally, TVR's are relatively cheap for their performance although in the past they have had quality issues, mechanical problems was mostly down to the how the owners treated the engines.

Hence, TreVoR fan for life.
 
Lol!!! :) I'd take 1 Ferrari of my choice over any 2 TVR's, Don't get me wrong! TVR makes awesome cars as far as Luxury Sports cars are concerned, I like the testicals of Radical Horses much more so!
 
If money wasn't an issue for me my garage would look alot like the following;

-Porsche Boxster S, as my daily driver
-Ruf RGT as my "supercar"
-Lotus Elise 111r as my track car (though the RUF would get some track miles too)
-BMW M3 as the other daily driver when I don't want a spyder (this would probably get track miles too, though with a RUF and Elise it would be far down on my list)
-Porsche Cayenne S, I ski so that would be the ski car

and in the "just because I adore the car" category;
-A Porsche 550a spyder (I'd even be happy with a kit car version)
-A RUF CTR (my ideal 911)
-Nissan Skyline R34 V-spec II Nur (I adore this car!)

Realistically that will never happen...not to mention the size of the garage I would need, hahaha.

But for me to one day own a Porsche 911 Carerra S isn't so far off, in fact I've even been pricing out older 964 and 993s (though I will probably go for a older BMW)....but thinking real world I would go buy a Carerra S 997 use it as a daily driver and then begin upgrading it with Ruf parts for track work. That in all honesty is what I would do....

One can dream of all sorts of cars but when the reality hits of actually buying one I just can't see beating the bang for the buck that a 997 911 Cs would give me. Not only as it's base performance as a dialy driver and track car but it's platform for upgrades.

I could buy a Nissan Z (love the car) or various other models (WRX STI, etc, etc) at half the price and spend the remaining money on upgrades to outperform the Porsche (on paper)....but there is an aesthetic purity in the 911 that I can't ignore. As a designer that means alot to me but I also appreciate Porsche's history and want to "buy into" that myth with my car buying dollar.
 
Anybody know the prices for the Ruf range in GT4? have'nt seen them mentioned anywhere.


My work mates and myself were talking about this in the pub, what if somebody were to give you 250k to spend on cars. what would you get? one came out with the 360 modena and M3, one came out with the new disco and 20 acres of land to drive on, I came out with a scenario which I placed my order for an Ruf Rgt in black pick it up and pay a little visit to "the ring" for a week, and take it back to my newly built centrally heated garage with stainless steel counters and underfloor heating. 👍

Jay
 
I wrote
"Anybody know the prices for the Ruf range in GT4? have'nt seen them mentioned anywhere."

I've just seen Famines excel file :dunce: , looks like i'll be buying a BTR as my first car.
 
Which do you like driving better in GT4....the RUF BTR or the CTR and why????
Which has better handeling, acceleration, braking, and top speed????
I ask this because I will probably buy one of these as my first car.
 
joid
Which do you like driving better in GT4....the RUF BTR or the CTR and why????
Which has better handeling, acceleration, braking, and top speed????
I ask this because I will probably buy one of these as my first car.
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Start with the BTR. It is the tamer of the two. It has all the same tendencies that the CTR does but they are all dulled down. You can buy the BTR at the start of the game but must win the CTR (pro hall/boxer cup, which is easily won with a stock BTR on S1s).

I'd say both have the same handling, though it takes longer to figure out with the CTR. The BTR stops better but the CTR is like a sledgehammer hitting you in the chest when you step on the gas. The CTR has the top speed advantage while the BTR is slightly more stable at it's top speed.

However...the BTR is the only RUF you can modify to be a quasi race car. It is the only one you can add a rear spoiler too for adjustable downforce, stick a race tranny, R2s and full torbo upgrades you have a little car pushing out 700ps that can take down many cars, including race cars.

Of the two I prefer the CTR. I keep it stock with N2 tires and love it.
 
I love the RUF CTR Yellowbird. Its an ungodly fun ball to drive it on the Nurburgring with no TCS or ASM while your on N1's and using a DFP. Man what a blast! There is something I really really liked about my lap's so far, but that info will come later when I get everything in line :)
 
3rdgenracerX
I love the RUF CTR Yellowbird. Its an ungodly fun ball to drive it on the Nurburgring with no TCS or ASM while your on N1's and using a DFP. Man what a blast! There is something I really really liked about my lap's so far, but that info will come later when I get everything in line :)
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I'm in the same boat with you. Once I finish my tire testing (this weekend I'll have the results posted) I'm going to spend some time on the CTR on the Nordschleife...though not with N1s....N2s most likely. Though with S1s is it pretty fun, unrealistic, but mega fun!
 
kensei
I'm in the same boat with you. Once I finish my tire testing (this weekend I'll have the results posted) I'm going to spend some time on the CTR on the Nordschleife...though not with N1s....N2s most likely. Though with S1s is it pretty fun, unrealistic, but mega fun!
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So you've just been testing the CTR with S tires?
 
Kensei, I'm thinking we have the BMW M3 GTR and TVR Griffith and one other non-RR car similar to the RGT. Also, would you mind if it's another track from Tsukuba, I can't stand it :D
 
KSaiyu
Kensei, I'm thinking we have the BMW M3 GTR and TVR Griffith and one other non-RR car similar to the RGT. Also, would you mind if it's another track from Tsukuba, I can't stand it :D
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Tsukuba is such a good test track, especially for a test like this, it has low speed corners and the final corner is a good test of understeer. Plus it can be run quickly.

Apricot Hill is another. The "esses" test how nimble the car is and it has two corners that test understeer.

Suzuka might be good, though I am not a huge fan of driving it.

Do you have an opinion on a track?

We should run arcade cars for this on S1 tires (they make the car neutral and offer a nice mix of grip/slip). The M3 GTR sounds about right. Wouldn't the Tuscan be closer than the griffith? Off the top of my head I can't think of any other FR that could hang with and RGT. A viper maybe? I'll look this weekend.
 
kensei
Tsukuba is such a good test track, especially for a test like this, it has low speed corners and the final corner is a good test of understeer. Plus it can be run quickly.

Apricot Hill is another. The "esses" test how nimble the car is and it has two corners that test understeer.

Suzuka might be good, though I am not a huge fan of driving it.

Do you have an opinion on a track?

We should run arcade cars for this on S1 tires (they make the car neutral and offer a nice mix of grip/slip). The M3 GTR sounds about right. Wouldn't the Tuscan be closer than the griffith? Off the top of my head I can't think of any other FR that could hang with and RGT. A viper maybe? I'll look this weekend.
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So many tracks to choose from :sly:

I'm happy with Apricot hill since I tested the RUFs braking stability there, and I see now what you mean about Tsukuba for testing, so I don't mind whatever the track is (it could be the 'ring if you want :D).

I'll also check for FR cars, and I think you're right about the Tuscan being better than the Griffith (if I remember the Griffith had a significantly better p/w ratio than the M3 GTR and RUF). I'm thinking the Jag XKR is too heavy, and the problem with the Japanese cars is they're all 4WD as you know
 
KSaiyu
So many tracks to choose from :sly:

I'm happy with Apricot hill since I tested the RUFs braking stability there, and I see now what you mean about Tsukuba for testing, so I don't mind whatever the track is (it could be the 'ring if you want :D).

I'll also check for FR cars, and I think you're right about the Tuscan being better than the Griffith (if I remember the Griffith had a significantly better p/w ratio than the M3 GTR and RUF). I'm thinking the Jag XKR is too heavy, and the problem with the Japanese cars is they're all 4WD as you know
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How about this.

We run Tsukuba AND Apricot. Max. 20 laps each. Save your best lap in each car we pick. S1 tires. The RGT and 3 FRs...

The RGT will wipe the floor with any similar PWr FR. Too many corners that the RGT can use it's superior grip in and nothing to test for understeer.

I'm trying to remember why FR in the first place? The way the RGT grips out of corners it is more like a AWD. A R34 skyline is a good match, plus AWDs WILL understeer if you turn in wrong, kinda the same as the RGT.

Also now that I think of it what are we testing again? hahaha. Sorry it's 3:15am and I need to go to bed....but ya, What are we testing for?

PM me and we will work out the details and save everyone from reading this...
 

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