Russian Invasion of Ukraine

[Imari]

Zelenskyy 'grateful' after $60.8bn Ukraine aid package approved by US House of Representatives

UK Foreign Secretary Lord Cameron says the funding is "a vital step forward", but Russia claims the passage of the bill will "further ruin" Ukraine and result in more deaths.

news.sky.com

Took their sweet time.

But Donald Trump ally Marjorie Taylor Greene, a Republican representative who has opposed helping Ukraine in its war against Russia, said "people have been too obsessed with voting for foreign wars and the war industry".

Speaking after the vote passed, she said: "This is the sellout of America today. When we had members of Congress in there waving the Ukrainian flag on the United States House of Representatives floor, while we're doing nothing to secure our border, I think every American is going to be furious."

As if she isn't already bought and paid for by Russia.

 

[inCloud]

As if she isn't already bought and paid for by Russia.

AFAIK, she is you average far right republican nationalist. She doesn't need Putin's money to say something like that.

 

[eran0004]

AFAIK, she is you average far right republican nationalist. She doesn't need Putin's money to say something like that.

They need Putin’s troll farms to help them win the election.

 

[inCloud]

They need Putin’s troll farms to help them win the election.

They don't. Actually, I think cremlebots would support Biden this time. Its not like one president is more favourable than the other, more like to rise chaos lvl.

 

[Joey D]

AFAIK, she is you average far right republican nationalist. She doesn't need Putin's money to say something like that.

She's parroting Russian propaganda word for word right down to the whole "Ukraine is full of Nazis". A vast majority of Republicans are anti-Russian since Reagan hated the Soviets.

I also don't think you understand the damage having a few politicians on the payroll can do. Since Speaker Johnson moved this aid package forward, Greene is almost certainly going to called for him to be recalled. When that happened with McCarthy, the government was at a standstill for a month. You don't think a foreign enemy doesn't see the benefit in that? Also, what Greene is doing is attempting to cripple the entire foreign policy of the US. By doing what she's doing, she was trying to directly benefit every US enemy.

 

[eran0004]

They don't. Actually, I think cremlebots would support Biden this time. Its not like one president is more favourable than the other, more like to rise chaos lvl.

The Trump camp is clearly and desperately fishing for his support. So yeah, they do need it. Whether or not Putin would actually support him is another matter, what he wants the most is probably a chaotic and turbulent America, as that would strengthen his own position.

 

[inCloud]

I also don't think you understand the damage having a few politicians on the payroll can do

I understand that, but its doubtful that RF could corrupt someone that high in US. Democrats would be happy to find something like that, but they can't for 8 years.

She's parroting Russian propaganda

Because its make sense if you would like to cut support for Ukraine?

The Trump camp is clearly and desperately fishing for his support.

Trump camp wants to sell Putin as traditionalist that fighting with LGBT, because this could help to cut support of Ukraine. Problem is, Putin is too stupid to play his role.

 

[Scaff]

The Trump camp is clearly and desperately fishing for his support. So yeah, they do need it. Whether or not Putin would actually support him is another matter, what he wants the most is probably a chaotic and turbulent America, as that would strengthen his own position.

Yep. Another attempted insurrection and post-election chaos following a Bidden win is arguably worth far more to Putin than a Trump victory with actually competent authoritarians managing him (and that's what the lot behind Project 2025 actually seem to be more of this time), who could end up rivalling Putin.

Long-term dictators such as Putin fundamentally rely on the fact that democratic governments work on 4 to 5 year election cycles, as it ensures that policies will shift (within pretty much known parameters) regularly. That works for them, a new, unknown player in their pond, with the military power the US has, is not something them are likely to want.

That Project 2025 is an actual thing and not a wild conspiracy theory still utterly baffles me. It's a publicly declared plan to fundamentally dismantle to US system of government, effectively dismantle much of the constitution, and install an authoritarian theocracy, and a massive percentage of the UK population is just 'meh' about its existence!

 

[Joey D]

I understand that, but its doubtful that RF could corrupt someone that high in US. Democrats would be happy to find something like that, but they can't for 8 years.

It's not doubtful at all.

And the Democrats know lots of things, but it doesn't mean they can do anything with that information or even have it benefit them. They (along with the American people) know Trump tried to overthrow the US government and he's still running for president.

Because its make sense if you would like to cut support for Ukraine?

She's verbatim saying that Ukraine is run by Nazis which is why Russia is attacking them. Cutting support for Ukraine because you want the money to stay in the US or go to another country is one thing, saying we need to cut the support because they're Nazis is Russian propaganda.

 

[inCloud]

Trump tried to overthrow the US government

And why he isn't in jail, then?

She's verbatim saying that Ukraine is run by Nazis which is why Russia is attacking them. Cutting support for Ukraine because you want the money to stay in the US or go to another country is one thing, saying we need to cut the support because they're Nazis is Russian propaganda.

Not sure what you trying to say. She obviously spreading RF propaganda, because its working for her own goals of cutting support.

 

[eran0004]

Trump camp wants to sell Putin as traditionalist that fighting with LGBT, because this could help to cut support of Ukraine. Problem is, Putin is too stupid to play his role.

And why do Trump want to stop the support of Ukraine?

 

[Joey D]

And why he isn't in jail, then?

Because the trial hasn't happened yet. It is not as easy as "you committed a crime now you go to jail."

Not sure what you trying to say. She obviously spreading RF propaganda, because its working for her own goals of cutting support.

Republicans are mostly saying that we shouldn't support Ukraine because that money should be used here to secure the border. A very small contingent is saying that Ukraine is a Nazi state; Greene is one of those people. The only people that believe the garbage that Ukraine is a Nazi state are the Russians (and whatever half-ass allies the Russians have). The possibility Greene is on the Russian payroll to spread false information and propaganda is defiantly something that should be considered.

 

[inCloud]

And why do Trump want to stop the support of Ukraine?

Its fastest way to convince Ukraine to start peace talks. Then he pushing on RF with treats of missile strikes at something and conflict stops. Also, he sabotaging what Biden trying to do.

The only people that believe the garbage that Ukraine is a Nazi state are the Russians

Could you prove that?

 

[Blitz24]

The possibility Greene is on the Russian payroll to spread false information and propaganda is defiantly something that should be considered.

I think it is equally likely for Greene to be making these statements free of charge HOPING that someone pays her for it in the future.

 

[Dennisch]

 

[Liquid]

Promoted to scrap.

 

[Blitz24]

Promoted to scrap.

On land: promoted to scrap.
At sea: promoted to submarine.

 

[Joey D]

Could you prove that?

Outside Russia and their allies is there anyone pushing the Nazi narrative? I've yet to find any government that isn't Russia or allied with Russia that thinks that. The US definitely doesn't push that narrative and have debunked it. So when elected officials start parroting it, it begs the question if they're being paid to do so.

 

[inCloud]

The only people that believe the garbage that Ukraine is a Nazi state are the Russians

I've yet to find any government that isn't Russia or allied with Russia that thinks that

Surprise, surprise - RF government doesn't believe in it in the first place. Not sure, why you started from "Russians" and swaped to governments.

There is such a funny word in German Putinversteher

 

[Joey D]

Surprise, surprise - RF government doesn't believe in it in the first place. Not sure, why you started from "Russians" and swaped to governments.

There is such a funny word in German Putinversteher

I said Russians and their allies. It was pretty clear that it was about the country since I didn't say Russian citizens or Russian people since citizens don't have allies.

And maybe the Russian government believes it, maybe they don't. But the point is that's what they are using as a justification and the US has politicians parroting it, which leads me to believe they are on a Russian payroll.

 

[inCloud]

It was pretty clear that it was about the country

The only people that believe the garbage that Ukraine is a Nazi state are the Russians

Its not clear at all

citizens don't have allies

wat?

But the point is that's what they are using as a justification and the US has politicians parroting it, which leads me to believe they are on a Russian payroll.

Enemy of my enemy is my friend

 

[eran0004]

It’s fastest way to convince Ukraine to start peace talks.

I very much doubt that the MAGA camp is so hostile towards Ukraine aid because they are eager to start peace talks.

Then he pushing on RF with treats of missile strikes at something and conflict stops.

Trump doesn’t have any missiles, and even if he wins the election he won’t have access to missiles until next year.

Also, he sabotaging what Biden trying to do.

Not likely, it’s too divisive within their own party for it to be that kind of political stunt. They are clearly desperate to block the aid.

 

[Imari]

AFAIK, she is you average far right republican nationalist. She doesn't need Putin's money to say something like that.

She is far from the average. She's one of the furthest to the right, one of the biggest Trump cheerleaders, and is a proponent for pretty much every conspiracy theory out there. She is one of the most unhinged politicians, if not the most. I think there's a pretty good argument to be made for her being the most.

But even still, the far right position is normally profoundly anti-Russia. It's not a nationalist position to be carrying water for a foreign country that is at war with one of your allies.

Besides, she might not need Putin's money but that doesn't mean that she doesn't want it if it was offered. There have been multiple investigations that have shown Russian (and other) interference in American politics in the last decade or so. That politicians on the fringes who are suddenly spouting pro-Russian rhetoric might actually be bought off is mostly just putting two and two together.

It's not doubtful at all.

And the Democrats know lots of things, but it doesn't mean they can do anything with that information or even have it benefit them. They (along with the American people) know Trump tried to overthrow the US government and he's still running for president.

Robert Mueller spent years investigating that not only was it possible, it happened. There was connection and influence over many people, potentially up to and including the President.

To think that the Russians would just stop after that success is absolutely bonkers. If anything the government has far more people who are far more exposed to potential corruption or extortion than it did in 2016. And it would seem far more people who are on board with potential collusion with an enemy state.

And why he isn't in jail, then?

Have you been paying attention at all? That's the whole problem with Trump. He's exposed just how flawed the American "justice" system is with regards to people with adequate money and power. Trump can stall for years and years to attempt to avoid any actual consequences for his actions. He will probably die of old age before he sees the inside of a jail cell.

 

[inCloud]

I very much doubt that the MAGA camp is so hostile towards Ukraine aid because they are eager to start peace talks

MAGA Republicans are isolationists, they want to cut off any support just because "all money to Murica" seems like great populist slogan. Trump using them as political platform and have his own goals.

Trump doesn’t have any missiles, and even if he wins the election he won’t have access to missiles until next year.

Something tells me that conflict wouldn't be over this year.

There have been multiple investigations that have shown Russian (and other) interference in American politics in the last decade or so

Any results? Russian influence is exaggerated by Democrats. RF could corrupt some lower levels with crypto or cash, but how do you corrupt senator? Seems unrealistic. Troll farms are real, but their influence is questionable. Facebook and Twitter suppressing rights is more important, IMO.

Have you been paying attention at all

Little bit. Doesn't look like Trump actions would be qualified as coup by any independent court. Man is not saint at all, but whole case about coup is laughable.

 

[UKMikey]

 

[Imari]

Any results? Russian influence is exaggerated by Democrats. RF could corrupt some lower levels with crypto or cash, but how do you corrupt senator? Seems unrealistic. Troll farms are real, but their influence is questionable. Facebook and Twitter suppressing rights is more important, IMO.

Does the name Robert Mueller ring any bells? If not, you might want to reconsider having an opinion on a topic you don't even have the bare basics of knowledge about. It's far from the only investigation, but it's certainly the most famous one.

Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_United_States_elections

As for how do you corrupt a senator, the same way you corrupt anyone. They're just people, they're not special.

If you'd like a recent example, look up Robert Menendez. If Egypt can do it, I have no doubt that Russia can manage if they want to. It's just that I think that Russian espionage agencies are probably a bit smarter than Egyptian espionage agencies, so they're probably less likely to get caught.

Little bit. Doesn't look like Trump actions would be qualified as coup by any independent court. Man is not saint at all, but whole case about coup is laughable.

Sure doesn't seem like you've been paying attention. Remember when multiple states disqualified him from running for president, starting with the Supreme Court of Colorado? Maybe the Supreme Court of Colorado doesn't count as an independent court to you?

The case is very not laughable if you care even a little bit about the legitimacy of an election, or think that the president of the country should be protecting the democratic rights of all it's citizens.

 

[inCloud]

If not

If yes?

If you'd like a recent example, look up Robert Menendez.

Not enough proofs.

Remember when multiple states disqualified him from running for president, starting with the Supreme Court of Colorado? Maybe the Supreme Court of Colorado doesn't count as an independent court to you?

Trump wins Colorado ballot disqualification case at US Supreme Court​

The case is very not laughable if you care even a little bit about the legitimacy of an election, or think that the president of the country should be protecting the democratic rights of all it's citizens.

Its laughable because there wasn't intend to overthrow government.

 

[Blitz24]

MAGA Republicans are isolationists, they want to cut off any support just because "all money to Murica" seems like great populist slogan. Trump using them as political platform and have his own goals.

Something tells me that conflict wouldn't be over this year.

Any results? Russian influence is exaggerated by Democrats. RF could corrupt some lower levels with crypto or cash, but how do you corrupt senator? Seems unrealistic. Troll farms are real, but their influence is questionable. Facebook and Twitter suppressing rights is more important, IMO.

Little bit. Doesn't look like Trump actions would be qualified as coup by any independent court. Man is not saint at all, but whole case about coup is laughable.

The strongest cases were either delayed (mishandling of documents case) or are in danger of being thrown out due to improper conduct by the DA (Georgia election interference). The hush money case (as discussed elsewhere) is the weakest one but Trump wants to make himself part of the action, either by overseeing the jury selection (which nearly got him in trouble for jury intimidation) or speaking daily about the "witch hunt" (which comes close to crossing the border of the gag order he's been given). Trump's biggest enemy, aside from believing rules don't apply to him, is his own mouth.

 

[Joey D]

As for how do you corrupt a senator, the same way you corrupt anyone. They're just people, they're not special.

They're probably easier to corrupt than the average person too. Plus, it's not like Congress isn't already used to taking money in exchange for a belief. They take bribes all the time, but it's under the guise of "lobbying".

Hell, Mike Lee (R-Utah) is famous for being pro-Russia.

Its laughable because there wasn't intend to overthrow government.

Your ignorance on how the US government works is showing again. If you don't understand, quit assuming. Either read up on it or ask clarifying questions.

Trump literally told the State of Georgia to "find him some votes," and, on January 6th, encouraged people to go to the Capital to stop the certification process. He's repeatedly denied the results of the election for four years and still claims he won, despite losing. He even tried to get his vice president to overturn the results. If you don't think Trump was trying to overthrow the government you've paid exactly zero attention.

 

[inCloud]

Trump's biggest enemy, aside from believing rules don't apply to him, is his own mouth.

But he still leading in race to presidency.

Trump literally told the State of Georgia to "find him some votes," and, on January 6th, encouraged people to go to the Capital to stop the certification process. He's repeatedly denied the results of the election for four years and still claims he won, despite losing. He even tried to get his vice president to overturn the results. If you don't think Trump was trying to overthrow the government you've paid exactly zero attention.

Guess, then court will say he is guilty. From my standpoint its looks like laughable case.