Same cars over and over and over and over

[GTP_TO Blue]

I went from the 650S to the Scirocco for the Gr4 race at Dragon Trail 2 today and went 2.5 seconds a lap faster. Admittedly some of that is because the Scirocco is easier to drive, but that's a huge margin.

Did the same today, myself.

I went from the Atenza GR.4 to the Scirocco and was a full 3 seconds faster in qualifying.

Still going to go back to the Atenza for the race. It's just nicer to drive.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Tried out the Audi TT Cup and put in quicker and more consistent lap times right away. It is a lot lighter than both the WRX and especially the Viper that I previously used.

The whole point I am trying to make is if the Audi TT Cup you turn a 2.04.1 lap and the Viper you turn a 206.3 lap when the matchmaking is done if you are racing the Audi you should be racing against drivers that are turning between a 2.03.0 - 2.05.1 lap time and that should be from place 1 through last place on the grid and the car you are driving then makes much less of a difference.

If you like driving your Viper better then you should be racing drivers whose lap times should be from 205.2-207.4 for those racing in that race and again make of car would not matter. The Bop for the drivers is an easier variable to match actually.

You would then be racing a driver that could only turn a 205.2 as the best possible lap if driving the Audi and your Viper would be much more competitive and more enjoyable to race.

Take a Beetle for instance it still runs a wide range of lap times depending on the skill of its driver but at least a higher skilled drivers should be matched against drivers that are skilled enough to take another car and run the same lap times, not have the advantage over slower cars.

 

[stevenhiggster]

Did the same today, myself.

I went from the Atenza GR.4 to the Scirocco and was a full 3 seconds faster in qualifying.

Still going to go back to the Atenza for the race. It's just nicer to drive.

That's how I felt, it's not a nice car to drive, much prefer my M4. But it's hard to ignore that 3 seconds.

 

[AdamA998]

I don't care if they're faster, they're not fun cars to me. I stick to the F-type and I overtake them with consistent driving, they can only do much on the straights. In the corners they are fast too, but I find ways to overtake.

 

[Johnnypenso]

But what is not working is the matchmaking apparently in conjunction with the BOP. If driver "A" turns a 2.06.04 lap in the OP Scirocco and driver "B" turns a 2.06.4 lap in the rear wheel drive Jag and both drivers are turning lap times that are realistically close to their qualifying times then even though the driver in the overpowered and easier to drive Scirocco may be slower driving the Jag than the "B" driver they should be "matched together" due to the cars differences in BOP performance.

That is one reason that you should have to qualify and race the same car you qualify in daily. Again in daily races your fastest lap within a race if faster than your qualifying time should become your qualifying time for the rest of that day to prevent sandbagging during qualifying to get matched into easier lobbies and race slower competition making top finishes or starting spots more easier to obtain .

No qualifying time racers should only be placed in a race with other non qualifiers. If you cannot spend 5 minutes to set a q time then you should only race against those that do the same.

Another thing is if stats are showing certain cars to be dominating the leader boards times and top 5 finishing positions in the daily races during matchmaking those cars should be the slower of the cars within a given lobby.

The daily races matchmaking using the DR and SR ratings and qualifying times are nothing but a "bop" for the drivers in the races and it is pretty plain that is not working correctly either. If a car is 2.5 seconds a lap faster than other cars then if the matchmaking was set to stricter standards then those cars with those times should not be in the same race.

I have seen lobbies where the times were differences of 14 seconds a lap between the top guys and the slowest racer. I have been in a fair number of races where the top two in the lobby are over 2 seconds a lap faster than the guy in third much less the rest of the field. Regardless of how screwed up the bop is the end result should still be races with the cars running close to the same lap times on the track but that is not currently happening.

You could make qualifying mandatory but it's an easy workaround - just don't try hard. So that doesn't solve the problem. A better solution, IMO, is to use your best race lap as your qualifying time, after your first race. Yes you'll have the benefit of the draft and it will skew the results slightly, but not more than a few tenths here or there and that's a small risk to take to ensure that drivers are placed with other drivers that are on their real pace, not some easily gamed qualifying pace. Forcing drivers to stick to the same car they qualified isn't a workable idea IMO. It'll be far too limiting and I doubt it's something that would ever pass the board meeting at PD.

As far as the gap between drivers goes in an individual lobby, that's mainly dependent on how many people are in the hopper at a particular time. I saw some figures put up for online participation in the Test Season a few days ago and they were atrocious, less than 2000 people IIRC. That means you could have very few people online for a given race and you'll get a wide spread of lap times as a result. Only with mass participation are you going to get lobbies with close lap times.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

You could make qualifying mandatory but it's an easy workaround - just don't try hard. So that doesn't solve the problem. A better solution, IMO, is to use your best race lap as your qualifying time, after your first race. Yes you'll have the benefit of the draft and it will skew the results slightly, but not more than a few tenths here or there and that's a small risk to take to ensure that drivers are placed with other drivers that are on their real pace, not some easily gamed qualifying pace. Forcing drivers to stick to the same car they qualified isn't a workable idea IMO. It'll be far too limiting and I doubt it's something that would ever pass the board meeting at PD.

As far as the gap between drivers goes in an individual lobby, that's mainly dependent on how many people are in the hopper at a particular time. I saw some figures put up for online participation in the Test Season a few days ago and they were atrocious, less than 2000 people IIRC. That means you could have very few people online for a given race and you'll get a wide spread of lap times as a result. Only with mass participation are you going to get lobbies with close lap times.

That is one reason that you should have to qualify and race the same car you qualify in daily. Again in daily races your fastest lap within a race if faster than your qualifying time should become your qualifying time for the rest of that day to prevent sandbagging during qualifying to get matched into easier lobbies and race slower competition making top finishes or starting spots more easier to obtain .

Using the fastest race lap I had already said earlier to stop the sandbagging. If the races keep being so spread out time wise then more people will quit racing. It gets old being in races that position number 7 does not cross the finish line before time expires because the leaders are 4 seconds or more quicker than over half the field.

At those times if you qualify 10th you are nothing but a grid filler. Seems there are not enough high level racers when it is not uncommon to see two or three DR A drivers put in races with C and D level drivers.

 

[R3LF1313]

I refuse to drive a car I don't like just because it is faster by a few percent. PD will work on BoP, but it will never be perfect and people will always figure out even the slightest advantages. First it was the GTR (which i did end up trying and liking), and now it's the Beatle (which I won't be caught dead driving).

Still, it's up to you whether you go with the crowd. To me, it's a game and should be fun, and the car hobby is a lot about being a fan and identifying with what you like. I'm not going to sell that out for a second or two.

Tldr: f that Beatle.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Using the fastest race lap I had already said earlier to stop the sandbagging. If the races keep being so spread out time wise then more people will quit racing. It gets old being in races that position number 7 does not cross the finish line before time expires because the leaders are 4 seconds or more quicker than over half the field.

At those times if you qualify 10th you are nothing but a grid filler. Seems there are not enough high level racers when it is not uncommon to see two or three DR A drivers put in races with C and D level drivers.

I missed the part about the fastest lap, sorry. Usually when I bring it up people start whinging about the draft and how it's unfair to have a lap count that was made with the aid of the draft. If the numbers I saw earlier in the week are true, then the game is already in the position of not having enough racers to fill grids with drivers that are competitive with each other.

Another interesting statistic is the participation in Test Seasons 1 through 4:
Test Season 1 - 11,800 drivers entered, 10,179 drivers (86%) earned points - hope springs eternal
Test Season 2 - 6,768 drivers entered (57% of TS1), 5,819 drivers (86%) earned points - the immortal glassy eyed drop out
Test Season 3 - 6,140 drivers entered (52% of TS1), 5,056 drivers (82%) earned points - one more try
Test Season 4 - 1,714 drivers entered (15% of TS1), 1,496 drivers (87%) earned points - reality kicks in

^^Those numbers are for the Americas AFAIK. They are shockingly low.

 

[SestoScudo]

Only duplicate i got was the Nissan R35 GTR in Red.

 

[Darwock]

I love the idea of tuning becoming available (and I assume it will, otherwise why is it even in the game?) but let's be honest it's not going to work as long as daily races remain daily.

I get (at best) 2 or 3 hours per day to play. I usually miss the first race in my time slot because I haven't had time to put in a clean lap in qualifying yet. I'm not going into a race completely unprepared. I wait for the next race about an hour later, and during the race I learn a little bit about how the opposition will behave and where I can make up ground in a race. Requalify and typically improve my time (although not necessarily my grid slot). The next race I'm basically pushing my limits for getting to bed for a decent night's sleep.

Where in this process is there time to refine my car set-up to improve my times? My stock time hasn't really stabilised through only two races, how can I tell if any gains are due to tuning and not just improving on my lines etc?

Changing the races daily is still the big problem holding back the full potential of the game IMO.

 

[KingFrog]

Which is why they should bring tuning back, we would see more variety. I would rather tune a car I personally like rather than being another pleb in whatever the flavor of the month car is.

If they bring tunning back everyone will just choose the fastest tuned car. Why people liked your comment is beyond me.

 

[racingchamp30]

With 3 new cars added in the 1.06 update and then 12 more new cars going to be added this month with the 1.07 update, more cars and i am sure tracks will be added as well. Those who are patient over time get rewarded.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Where in this process is there time to refine my car set-up to improve my times? My stock time hasn't really stabilised through only two races, how can I tell if any gains are due to tuning and not just improving on my lines etc?

Once you have set your tune for a particular car and track you can save that tune for that car and track combo so unless something changes on the car or the physics in an update to the game you can go back and apply that tune to the car from now on.

I think you can save 11 custom tunes per car. So time wise it is not like you have to set up a new tune every day. Many people have a handful of tracks they race on and have favorite cars they race often as well.

Pick a night that the daily races are not races you really like and spend your race time that night doing time trials on your favorite track with your favorite car getting your tune set up where the car fits your driving style better than the stock PD set up.

 

[jesQuick]

Tuning and bop races both need to be in sport mode.

Why not have both? What's the problem, PD?

 

[ghostrider135]

Tuning and bop races both need to be in sport mode.

Why not have both? What's the problem, PD?

The problem is PD are inept and goosed things up that they are now having to fix in the background.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I like the lack of tuning. I want to plug in and race.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I like the lack of tuning. I want to plug in and race.

So basically what you are saying is that you are totally satisfied running whatever tune some programmer at PD decides to put on a car even if that tune makes your favorite car to drive totally uncompetitive against the other cars in the class you have to race against?

Even a base set up from PD is a "tune" placed by some programmer at PD. Is it not better to have the ability to improve a car by tweaking and adjusting that you enjoy driving to more suite your personal driving style and to run and drive the best on each different track as it is possible for that car?

I personally do not like basically either needing to choose to run mid pack at best or to have a chance to run at the front have to pick and drive a car that is the dominate car within the class because some programmer at PD does not correctly set the base tunes for equal performance between the cars within a class.

 

[ShiftingGears]

So basically what you are saying is that you are totally satisfied running whatever tune some programmer at PD decides to put on a car even if that tune makes your favorite car to drive totally uncompetitive against the other cars in the class you have to race against?

I see your point but I just don't like any car in the game that much (given that this argument is about Gr4 and Gr3).

 

[Zenjungian]

The problem is PD are inept and goosed things up that they are now having to fix in the background.

Are you thinking they’ve found a technical problem that they haven’t told us about? That might explain it.

Otherwise I can’t understand why they aren’t allowing tuning. It’s a very sophisticated functionality that must have cost a great deal of time and money to develop. At the moment they are ignoring one of the game’s most important features. It just seems so obvious to have both BoP and tuned races. I’d drive in both - the first week or so they allowed it and though I’m not a very experienced driver I became reasonably competitive because I sussed out how to adjust the gearing to the track :-)

 

[ghostrider135]

Are you thinking they’ve found a technical problem that they haven’t told us about? That might explain it.

Otherwise I can’t understand why they aren’t allowing tuning. It’s a very sophisticated functionality that must have cost a great deal of time and money to develop. At the moment they are ignoring one of the game’s most important features. It just seems so obvious to have both BoP and tuned races. I’d drive in both - the first week or so they allowed it and though I’m not a very experienced driver I became reasonably competitive because I sussed out how to adjust the gearing to the track :-)

Well it certainly wouldn't be the first time they have ballsed things up with the tuning, The infamous broken camber issue that plagued GT for literally years, Then there's the ride height glitch that happened in GT6 that they never really seemed to fix.

 

[SleezyBigSlim]

I like the lack of tuning. I want to plug in and race.

The problem with this is some cars perform badly and need a tune to perform better like the M6 or Hurrican GR.3, they should add 1 daily race that allows tuning.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The problem is PD are inept and goosed things up that they are now having to fix in the background.

That seems a bit scathing, don't you think? BoP is not an easy thing to sort, especially when it's the first time such a system has been used.

 

[ghostrider135]

That seems a bit scathing, don't you think? BoP is not an easy thing to sort, especially when it's the first time such a system has been used.

Pretty sure BoP was introduced in GT:6 so it isn't the first time its been used, I mean seriously they have introduced fuel usage and tire wear in daily races yet not once have I had to worry about destroying my tires or needing to pit for some go-juice, Now maybe if the wear and usage was increased significantly it might help even the playing field, (BTCC for example FF can heat and use their tires better to begin with, FR needs time to warm them up so they work better later in the race) Add in the wear and you'll get over/understeer where applicable.

But as things stand right now if you want any chance of a top 5 finish you need to be in either
Gr3
Beetle
Porsche
Gr4
Scirocco
Megane

One might think in this modern world where a server connection is mandatory they could fiddle with some numbers on the fly to even the playing field, Comes to something when Renault are more competitive in a game than they have been for the past 5years in F1

 

[Turbo Racer 48]

Pretty sure BoP was introduced in GT:6 so it isn't the first time its been used, I mean seriously they have introduced fuel usage and tire wear in daily races yet not once have I had to worry about destroying my tires or needing to pit for some go-juice, Now maybe if the wear and usage was increased significantly it might help even the playing field, (BTCC for example FF can heat and use their tires better to begin with, FR needs time to warm them up so they work better later in the race) Add in the wear and you'll get over/understeer where applicable.

But as things stand right now if you want any chance of a top 5 finish you need to be in either
Gr3
Beetle
Porsche
Gr4
Scirocco
Megane

One might think in this modern world where a server connection is mandatory they could fiddle with some numbers on the fly to even the playing field, Comes to something when Renault are more competitive in a game than they have been for the past 5years in F1

Renault have won races in the mid engine not FF GT3 in International GT...see Wikipedia article Renault RS.01.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Pretty sure BoP was introduced in GT:6 so it isn't the first time its been used, I mean seriously they have introduced fuel usage and tire wear in daily races yet not once have I had to worry about destroying my tires or needing to pit for some go-juice, Now maybe if the wear and usage was increased significantly it might help even the playing field, (BTCC for example FF can heat and use their tires better to begin with, FR needs time to warm them up so they work better later in the race) Add in the wear and you'll get over/understeer where applicable.

But as things stand right now if you want any chance of a top 5 finish you need to be in either
Gr3
Beetle
Porsche
Gr4
Scirocco
Megane

One might think in this modern world where a server connection is mandatory they could fiddle with some numbers on the fly to even the playing field, Comes to something when Renault are more competitive in a game than they have been for the past 5years in F1

I've won and had many podiums with the GT by Citroen Group 4. So that goes against the playing field, doesn't it?

 

[BSDShoes]

I've won and had many podiums with the GT by Citroen Group 4. So that goes against the playing field, doesn't it?

After the 1.06 patch?

 

[stevenhiggster]

Man the Bathurst Gr4 today is brutal. All megane's all the time. Every race I've been in. There's been maybe 3 other guys not in the megane. It's almost like multi class racing. I've been best of the rest every time lol.
Tried it in the WRX and by christ it blitzes the meganes in the turns. But those two long straights just make it all for nothing.

 

[Veinz]

The TT Cup is really fast too, I'd say it's just as good as the Megane or Scirocco. I was surprised I didn't see really see anyone else use it when I was playing Friday night.

 

[BSDShoes]

The TT Cup is really fast too, I'd say it's just as good as the Megane or Scirocco. I was surprised I didn't see really see anyone else use it when I was playing Friday night.

I drove the TT Cup today, it's faster than most RWD/AWD cars but not as fast as the Megane on a straight

I hot lapped the Gr4 458 vs my TT Cup ghost on Bathurst and TT Cup was faster, then I hot lapped the Megane vs my TT Cup ghost and the Megane was even faster.

Man the Bathurst Gr4 today is brutal. All megane's all the time. Every race I've been in. There's been maybe 3 other guys not in the megane. It's almost like multi class racing. I've been best of the rest every time lol.
Tried it in the WRX and by christ it blitzes the meganes in the turns. But those two long straights just make it all for nothing.

I did Bathurst maybe 4 times today and every one of them was littered with Meganes and Sciroccos, I did one race with the RCZ (a decent FF car) but it wasn't even nearly as competitive as the other FF's so I decided to go with the TT Cup, finished top 10 each time.

https://i.imgur.com/YaX9sXL.jpg

 

[Veinz]

I drove the TT Cup today, it's faster than most RWD/AWD cars but not as fast as the Megane on a straight

I was less than 2 tenths away from a top 10 time in my region with it that night. I could have got a bit more out of it but I believe one of the alien drivers could have got a number one with it if they really tried.

It may be slightly slower on the straight but I was still passing fast people in Meganes with the help of the slipstream so its not that bad. It's pretty light so its really quick through the corners.